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What are the correct colors topaint susp. parts?
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ThomasD500
Posted 2011-02-05 3:34 PM (#259686)
Subject: What are the correct colors topaint susp. parts?


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Basically, the same as the title:

What are the correct colors to paint the various suspension parts?

I'm NOT doing a 100% correct restoration, but I would like to know the correct colors as sort of a starting point. I've seen the suspensions where they were just spray bombed black and they look a little boring...but probably easier to maintain and not many people are going to see it anyway.
But on the higher end restorations, I have seen the parts painted in various combinations of black and gray/aluminum colors.
I have a can of 'aluminum' POR15, a light gray polyurethane, and ubiquitous gloss black. I will be rebuilding my front and rear suspensions soon, and am trying to decide what colors to paint the various parts while I have them out.

Oh yeah, my car is a '57 Dodge.

Thanks for any help or ideas...again, I am not necessarily going for 100% correct, so ANY ideas are appreciated...whether they be on originality or just appealing color combinations.
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Dave L.
Posted 2011-02-16 12:02 AM (#261196 - in reply to #259686)
Subject: Re: What are the correct colors topaint susp. parts?



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For starters, and food for thought, Greg Leggatt's article from over at the chrysler300club website is something I've linked to before when this has come up. http://www.chrysler300club.com/tech/framepaint.html
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BigBlockMopar
Posted 2011-02-16 5:14 AM (#261205 - in reply to #259686)
Subject: Re: What are the correct colors topaint susp. parts?



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On my '60 NY I used black adn castiron grey-paint for the suspension parts. (I used castiron grey mainly because I ran out of black paint at the time )
If your car maintains the stock (or higher then stock) ride height, I wouldn't paint the LCA's any other color then black. But since my car was to be lowered anyway I decided a LCA in castiron color wouldn't be bad.




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BigBlockMopar
Posted 2011-02-16 5:20 AM (#261208 - in reply to #259686)
Subject: Re: What are the correct colors topaint susp. parts?



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I usually some Hammerite-LIKE paint on the chassis and leafsprings.
I sand(blast) suspensionparts and spraybomb them black or castiron grey, followed by a layer of clear paint for ease of cleaning later on.


Pic of bottom of my '57 Chrysler.




Edited by BigBlockMopar 2011-02-16 5:21 AM
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61plymy
Posted 2011-02-16 12:59 PM (#261259 - in reply to #259686)
Subject: Re: What are the correct colors topaint susp. parts?


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Eastwood also sells an Argent paint that looks like raw cast iron, or pretty close to it. It leaves a rough finish. Mopar used Argent on the inside of edges of the plastic grills on some of the 70's muscle cars etc.

It's interesting because other than the torsion bars, I can detect no paint on any of the other suspension pieces on my car.

Mike
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ThomasD500
Posted 2011-02-16 7:10 PM (#261305 - in reply to #261259)
Subject: Re: What are the correct colors topaint susp. parts?


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61plymy - 2011-02-16 12:59 PM

It's interesting because other than the torsion bars, I can detect no paint on any of the other suspension pieces on my car.

Mike


Same here. And after I did some 'google research', it seems that most people say that the for 60's muscle MOPARs that they are restoring, the factory did not paint any of the suspension components.
So the 'thing to do' for those doing 'correct' restorations on their later MOPARs is to paint all their suspension components 'cat iron gray'... or whatever they want, really.

I think I will just find a good dark gray paint and use that to paint my suspension components.

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Dave L.
Posted 2011-02-16 10:57 PM (#261335 - in reply to #259686)
Subject: Re: What are the correct colors topaint susp. parts?



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I might be digressing a bit here (and admittedly bordering on ignorance), but the later MoPars are sometimes reported to have cosmoline coating on the lower control arms
http://www.restorick.com/tech/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=47
Not sure how true or how often and if they did it on our earlier years. Some products here http://www.restorick.com/products.asp?cat=11
While in the reading room I've also read good things about this bare-metal protective coating. http://ecsautomotive.com/productdesc.php?co=a&id=1
I've been de-rusting some misc pieces with the Harbor Freight water-based rust remover and will go with a protective coating rather than a metallic spray coating on those.
I've looked at some of the reference-restoration photos of F's and G's (on the same 300 tech pages posted above) and can't make out anything regarding the suspension colors.

Edited by Dave L. 2011-02-16 11:06 PM
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ThomasD500
Posted 2011-02-17 7:38 PM (#261436 - in reply to #261335)
Subject: Re: What are the correct colors topaint susp. parts?


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Dave L. - 2011-02-16 10:57 PM

I might be digressing a bit here (and admittedly bordering on ignorance), but the later MoPars are sometimes reported to have cosmoline coating on the lower control arms
http://www.restorick.com/tech/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=47
Not sure how true or how often and if they did it on our earlier years. Some products here http://www.restorick.com/products.asp?cat=11
While in the reading room I've also read good things about this bare-metal protective coating. http://ecsautomotive.com/productdesc.php?co=a&id=1
I've been de-rusting some misc pieces with the Harbor Freight water-based rust remover and will go with a protective coating rather than a metallic spray coating on those.
I've looked at some of the reference-restoration photos of F's and G's (on the same 300 tech pages posted above) and can't make out anything regarding the suspension colors.


I read the same thing about the cosmoline. And again, that's late 60's cars. Seems nobody really knows about our cars.
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d500neil
Posted 2011-02-19 3:18 PM (#261606 - in reply to #261436)
Subject: Re: What are the correct colors topaint susp. parts?



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Tom, your car's suspension pieces were not painted (or Cosmolined) when the chassis was assembled.

I've sent some reference literature & photos for Sir Clive to post up here, which will show you how your
car's chassis appeared, when it was built.

BTW, notice the 12x 2 1/2" brakes which are shown on 'Clive's' photos of the convertible chassis.

Your car was factory undercoated, IIRC.











Edited by d500neil 2011-02-19 3:22 PM
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ThomasD500
Posted 2011-02-20 10:25 AM (#261681 - in reply to #259686)
Subject: Re: What are the correct colors topaint susp. parts?


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That's what I figured (that the parts simply weren't painted.) I will paint them with SOMETHING, just to protect them somehow.
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FURY
Posted 2011-02-20 9:31 PM (#261768 - in reply to #261681)
Subject: Re: What are the correct colors topaint susp. parts?



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The control arms are definitely painted black. 100% definite/no doubt. I have 13 photos on file of factory nos black control arms. The photos show the factory stenciled part number and some still have the Mopar dealer inventory tag on them. The belief by some that they were not painted, I believe, is that the paint was so thin that within a year it had all but disappeared, and then rusty steel would show through and eventually the whole part then looks rusty to the 2011 observer. I have never ever seen a photo of a nos control arm in bare metal, but if anybody can show me one I am always happy to learn of an alternative.
Factory photos of dubious source, or old black and white photos don't prove anything to this researcher. Just because a photo appears in some old HotRod magazine or factory brochure has little significance to me. As the photos of a page from a book showing a colored chassis (even a red diff!) will prove.
The torsion bars were also painted black. Also 100% definite/no doubt. They also had colored paint daubs on them relative to the various models. The bars on a 57 Fury have orange paint daubs.
Tie rod ends are bare steel. As is the center link.
Shock absorbers are black I am led to believe.
On my restoration, I painted the bare steel parts in POR-15 and then went over the top in Cast Iron Grey colored paint. The black parts I painted in POR-15 paint then went over them in POR-15 Chassis Coat satin black and they look very nice and are easy to keep clean.
Glenn.

Edited by FURY 2011-02-20 9:53 PM




(Torsion bars-left-nos & original-daubs-closeup.jpg)



(Control arm-lower nos2.JPG)



(Control arm-lower nos3.JPG)



(Control arm-upper-NOS-Part 1825-392-black2small.jpg)



(Control arm-upper-NOS-Part 1825-392-black2-decal.jpg)



(Control arm-upper-NOS-Part 1825-392 and3-black#2.JPG)



(Control arm-upper-NOS-Part 1825-393-Dodge-black.JPG)



(Feature album-57 Plymouth-chassis.1874488770.jpg)



(Feature album-57 Plymouth-susp.1874488770.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments Torsion bars-left-nos & original-daubs-closeup.jpg (116KB - 79 downloads)
Attachments Control arm-lower nos2.JPG (24KB - 74 downloads)
Attachments Control arm-lower nos3.JPG (18KB - 80 downloads)
Attachments Control arm-upper-NOS-Part 1825-392-black2small.jpg (196KB - 83 downloads)
Attachments Control arm-upper-NOS-Part 1825-392-black2-decal.jpg (109KB - 95 downloads)
Attachments Control arm-upper-NOS-Part 1825-392 and3-black#2.JPG (17KB - 75 downloads)
Attachments Control arm-upper-NOS-Part 1825-393-Dodge-black.JPG (73KB - 87 downloads)
Attachments Feature album-57 Plymouth-chassis.1874488770.jpg (27KB - 85 downloads)
Attachments Feature album-57 Plymouth-susp.1874488770.jpg (17KB - 83 downloads)
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d500neil
Posted 2011-02-21 6:12 PM (#261879 - in reply to #261768)
Subject: Re: What are the correct colors topaint susp. parts?



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On the pics that Sir Clive will be posting here, I went back and checked the edition date of the Dodge Reporter
(in-house newspaper) that features the story on a family's "Customer Drive-Away" visitation to the factory.

The newspaper's edition date is April 1957, and it clearly shows the existence of non-painted upper & lower control
arms on the 1957 Dodge chassis, at the Body Drop station, on the assembly line.

The date on the Technical Service Bulletin, referencing the non-painted suspension-chassis components, is 6/6/57.

The latest prospective reference date, in that newspaper, refers to a Lawrence Welk promotion that was scheduled
to begin on 4/15/57, so the newspaper was printed sometime before 4/15/57.

As the factory visitation photographs had to be developed and the article written/edited and, then, scheduled into
being printed inside the newspaper, the subject visitation (which shows a chassis with non-painted suspension
components on it)...probably occurred in February, or early March of 1957.

I'm going to send Clive another non-dated production line photo I've got, which, I think, was taken on a 1957 Plymouth
assembly line, but which, again, clearly shows the installation on non-painted control arms and suspension components.

Tom, if I were restoring a car, now, I'd have the suspension pieces be powder coated in bare-steel rather than having them
be merely painted in a similar "bare-steel" color.






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Rebels-59
Posted 2011-02-21 7:13 PM (#261885 - in reply to #261436)
Subject: Re: What are the correct colors topaint susp. parts?



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From NEIL D500

Tom, there's no need to apologise, in advance, for asking a restoration
question, here.

You asked, so here's some answers.

Here's what the factory declared, effective 6/6/57 (which was probably in
effect before this 'official' date.

Also, here's some photos of Greg Leggatt's restoration work, in regard
to the subject Technical Service Bulletin.

Greg's restoration research has also shown that at least some of the
leaf spring
assemblies (57 Dodge & Imperial) were painted in bright silver---as opposed
to the universal practice of painting the springs in gloss black.

For the non-painted suspension pieces, you can have them be powder coated in
bare-metal finish; clear coating over stripped-blasted metal does not
last, but,
powder coating is fairly permanent and requires simple maintenance---just be
sure that the PC doesn't get put onto any thread surfaces.




(206.jpg)



(207.jpg)



(208.jpg)



(209.jpg)



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Attachments 207.jpg (166KB - 287 downloads)
Attachments 208.jpg (107KB - 81 downloads)
Attachments 209.jpg (99KB - 83 downloads)
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Rebels-59
Posted 2011-02-21 7:15 PM (#261887 - in reply to #259686)
Subject: RE: What are the correct colors topaint susp. parts?



Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+

500050002000100100
Location: .Norfolk..Mafia.. ,England UK
.



(210.jpg)



(211.jpg)



(212.jpg)



(213.jpg)



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Attachments 210.jpg (105KB - 77 downloads)
Attachments 211.jpg (112KB - 85 downloads)
Attachments 212.jpg (102KB - 82 downloads)
Attachments 213.jpg (110KB - 78 downloads)
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Rebels-59
Posted 2011-02-21 7:17 PM (#261888 - in reply to #261887)
Subject: RE: What are the correct colors topaint susp. parts?



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From NEIL D500

Here is another photo, from a Plymouth assembly line, I believe,
which shows the installation of non-painted suspension componetry
including the upper and the lower control arms, and, their "links
over arms" (connecting-links)




(214.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments 214.jpg (110KB - 73 downloads)
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d500neil
Posted 2011-02-21 9:25 PM (#261914 - in reply to #261888)
Subject: Re: What are the correct colors topaint susp. parts?



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Thanks, Clive.

As I mentioned, above, I don't know when the (Dodge) factory began to install non-painted suspension equipment,
but, from the above assembly line photo, it appears that the 'change' occurred no later than MAR 1957, and, probably,
earlier than that.



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d500neil
Posted 2011-02-22 5:41 PM (#262001 - in reply to #261914)
Subject: Re: What are the correct colors topaint susp. parts?



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

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Just checked in the 1955-1958 Master Parts Book, and the P/N for the 1957-1958 PLY/DOD and the 1958 Windsor
upper control arms are 1671 426 (RT) and 1671 427 (LT).

The 1957-1958 DeS/CHY/IMP UCA's are 1671 452 and 1671 453, respectively.

The 1825 392/393's, above, would appear to have originated in 1958---they probably pertain to the 1959(+) models.




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Dave L.
Posted 2011-02-23 10:25 PM (#262189 - in reply to #259686)
Subject: Re: What are the correct colors topaint susp. parts?



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Amazing photos - Thanks for providing them and posting them! (I saved them in case I have trouble finding this thread later.)
Of course assembly line parts and finishes could differ from later NOS or replacement parts, correct? I know that's the case with many parts in later years, and I assume is conceivable for Forward Look on some components. I may be confused, but could that be the case with the Glenn's control-arm photos earlier in this thread?

Edited by Dave L. 2011-02-23 10:28 PM
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61plymy
Posted 2011-02-24 1:40 PM (#262253 - in reply to #259686)
Subject: Re: What are the correct colors topaint susp. parts?


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Cripes sake, back then they could have used painted on the left side and unpainted on the right side. Pictures taken in the day only document the exact car in the photo.

They didn't track stuff back then, and used whatever they had a lot of the time. I guarantee you that when those memos came out, the line didn't throw the painted parts back to be sandblasted when a changeover hit. They used what they had on hand till new parts came in. It could have been days, weeks, months, depending on the level of stock on hand when the change came in.

To take parts from a single example and declare it as the standard of the day is ludicrous in my opinion, especially in the context of Mopar in the day. The best you can do is decide what you want and do it that way. For someone else to say you were incorrect is insulting at best, and displays a certain amount of elitism with a dash of idiocy. You just can't know for sure how an individual car came off the line because the documentation is so poor (by today's standards).

Even dissecting a car today won't tell the entire story because you don't have a clue who has been in there doing maintenance etc. For example, those springs could have been put on that car years later and originally taken from a junker in the yard of a different year. Unless someone was the single owner and did all their own maintenance, everything is suspect after 50 plus years.

Tell me it ain't so.

Mike
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d500neil
Posted 2011-02-24 1:59 PM (#262259 - in reply to #262253)
Subject: Re: What are the correct colors topaint susp. parts?



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Mike, you did read the 1957 Technical Service Bulletin?

That's as official as any factory pronouncement can get, and, those are factory production line photos.

Of course: never-say-never, but, it appears that non-painted control arms (and the other non-painted parts) were
being installed at least as early as in MAR 1957.





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d500neil
Posted 2011-02-24 2:50 PM (#262272 - in reply to #262259)
Subject: Re: What are the correct colors topaint susp. parts?



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Dave, Glenn's upper control arms' design (VERY-fortunately!) have P/N's stenciled onto them, pertaining to their 1958
approval, for 1959-installation (apparently).

It was common for a P/N to be assigned during the year PRIOR to the parts' installation; hence, the 1956 P/N
that was assigned to the 1957-1958 control arms----in the P/N's, the first digit pertains to the decade: 1: 50's; 2: 60's; 3: 70's...

The second number pertains to the decade's year that the part was approved for eventual installation.

That P/N remains applicable to that part regardless of how many subsequent years/decades that that part is installed on
cars.

In the case of the 1957-1958 control arms (as confirmed in the 55-58 Master Parts Book), they retained the 1956 "16xxxxxx"
P/N, but, apparently, for the 1959 control arms, a different P/N was assigned for them in 1958 : "18xxxxxx".







Edited by d500neil 2011-02-24 7:01 PM
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StillOutThere
Posted 2011-02-24 5:35 PM (#262299 - in reply to #259686)
Subject: Re: What are the correct colors topaint susp. parts?



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What we call NOS (new old stock) parts should more properly be termed "service parts" Service parts are the new parts that the factories made specifically as spare parts to service the dealerships and repair shops. Service parts like control arms HAD TO BE PAINTED because they were expected to sit in inventory for multiple years. Also, some production parts that were not deemed adequate quality for new car installation went into service parts because they consisted of a lens with a scratch or a wheel cover with a ding or imperfect paint detail. All that "shelf wear" on NOS service parts is not necessarily from being pushed around on shelves. Neil is correct that the TSB regarding elimination of paint on the list of production line parts means just that.
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ThomasD500
Posted 2011-02-24 6:52 PM (#262322 - in reply to #259686)
Subject: Re: What are the correct colors topaint susp. parts?


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Thanks for all the great info!

The way I read that memo, it states that those parts will not be painted on the factory line after it has been 'partially assembled.'
However, it is always always possible that some of those parts were painted or treated by the subcontractor that produced the individual parts. And so it states in the last sentence. Therefore we may not be totally certain that all those parts were 'not' painted...only that the assembly line personnel were instructed not to paint them once they were assembled onto the chassis.
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d500neil
Posted 2011-02-24 7:08 PM (#262327 - in reply to #259686)
Subject: Re: What are the correct colors topaint susp. parts?



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That TSB could have been worded more precisely, but, there was no further painting of any component once that/any
component was installed onto a car, on the assembly line (except, maybe, to correct assembly defects, at the Final Inspection
Station---lolol...(not).

The one semi-exception to the above pertained to the application of additional undercoating to the inner fenders and wheel wells,
and, to the undersides of the hoods (on Dodges), after they were installed on the 'line', on cars having the "Undercoating" option.

And, Glenn's control arms, by definition/confirmation of the part-tags which are 'wired' to them, are "Service Parts", as S.o.T. discusses, above.






Edited by d500neil 2011-02-24 7:13 PM
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ThomasD500
Posted 2011-02-24 7:30 PM (#262334 - in reply to #262327)
Subject: Re: What are the correct colors topaint susp. parts?


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d500neil - 2011-02-24 7:08 PM

That TSB could have been worded more precisely, but, there was no further painting of any component once that/any
component was installed onto a car, on the assembly line (except, maybe, to correct assembly defects, at the Final Inspection
Station---lolol...(not).






Yes, that's what I meant to convey. The parts were not painted by assembly line personnel.
I guess that my point is that maybe...just maybe...the parts might have been painted wherever it was that THEY were made (by the subcontractor or other plant that made individual parts.)

Did Chrysler Co. make all their own suspension parts, or was that subcontracted out to possibly more than one other company? That's how it's done these days for many parts...some companies make parts for, say, Chrysler, GM AND Ford. And there are multiple manufacturers of even the SAME part.

THis might account for some variability of what came off the line, depending on who's batch of suspension (and other) parts were going on vehicles on that given day, week or whatever.
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d500neil
Posted 2011-02-24 7:56 PM (#262344 - in reply to #262334)
Subject: Re: What are the correct colors topaint susp. parts?



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Chrysler almost certainly TOLD the subcontractor (if the 'arms' were not stamped in-house), that it did not want/need the
arms (&/or the other suspension pieces) to be painted---thereby realizing for the Corp a few 1957-pennies saved per unit
produced by not requiring that those parts be painted.

"Bean Counting" was, and still-is, a full-contact sport.

A correct restoration requires that OEM parts' condition be documented, to facilitate the re-assembly of the
car and to confirm the OEM-condition of the car.

Once a car has been restored, it's too late to claim: "but, that's the way that 'it' looked, when I got it"... and/or
"that's the way that the factory built/assembled 'it', before I restored 'it'.

The 'problem' is: "Never-say-never"; the 'answer' is : "photograph/document" the thing, before you do anything to that part.






Edited by d500neil 2011-02-24 8:08 PM
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springsweptwing
Posted 2013-12-09 6:30 PM (#415370 - in reply to #259686)
Subject: RE: What are the correct colors topaint susp. parts?



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Looking at this picture does the drag link (Red arrow) appear to be painted black, also the trans cross member looks to have been fitted before the chassis was painted black as i cannot see any silver bolts standing out

thanks Paul.



(214.jpg)



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Attachments 214.jpg (67KB - 81 downloads)
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d500neil
Posted 2013-12-10 1:41 AM (#415444 - in reply to #415370)
Subject: Re: What are the correct colors topaint susp. parts?



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

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The drag link appears in its natural 'bare metal' finish, not unlike the steering arms, which are not shiny, like
the upper and lower control arms are.

Also, the upper control arm connectors ("links") are not painted, but in this photo the one link looks dirty or greasy.

The manual steering gear assembly is a sort of matte/semi-gloss, as compared to the chassis-black paint.



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springsweptwing
Posted 2013-12-10 11:04 AM (#415491 - in reply to #259686)
Subject: RE: What are the correct colors topaint susp. parts?



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Ok Neil,

take it its cast steel color same as tie bars/steering links/ hub spindles, heres a picture of the steering links in bare metal and on top the hub spindle painted to match

thanks Paul.



(steering arms.JPG)



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Attachments steering arms.JPG (135KB - 60 downloads)
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LD3 Greg
Posted 2013-12-10 10:30 PM (#415587 - in reply to #415491)
Subject: RE: What are the correct colors topaint susp. parts?


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This thread showed up in "posts active today". As I read it I was VERY surprised to see my restoration photos posted here! Th is was work I did back in the late 80s and early 90s and I had no idea they were here! Pics 208 and 209 here are the convert chassis for the convert shown in my "forward look art gallery" thread.

Paul, I hope the pics you just posted are parts for your Regal!
Greg
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christine-lover
Posted 2013-12-11 12:26 PM (#415646 - in reply to #415587)
Subject: Re: What are the correct colors topaint susp. parts?



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Until recently, I thought those photos were photos taken period when the cars were new, in an area where they would strip down cars for whatever reasons, quality/ test mules/ labor times. Never realized guys were doing this level of restoration work then.
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springsweptwing
Posted 2013-12-11 2:08 PM (#415666 - in reply to #415587)
Subject: RE: What are the correct colors topaint susp. parts?



Elite Veteran

Posts: 958
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Location: Blackpool, United Kingdom.
LD3 Greg - 2013-12-11 3:30 AM

Paul, I hope the pics you just posted are parts for your Regal!
Greg



Hi Greg,

yes have posted new pictures in my resto thread,

thanks Paul.
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d500neil
Posted 2013-12-11 6:26 PM (#415703 - in reply to #415666)
Subject: Re: What are the correct colors topaint susp. parts?



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19171
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Location: bishop, ca
The above T.S.B. states that the "steering knuckle tie rails" are not painted (in black), but are finished only in the clear protective
coating that they received from their manufacturer.

The above photo, from the Plymouth assembly line, appears to show a non-painted steering knuckle, and, it makes sense that
both the knuckle, and its attached 'tie rail', would both be non-painted items.



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