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Location: Perth Australia | I found this in my looking around
http://fargo.craigslist.org/cto/2374619410.html
Mick
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Location: Parts Unknown | Yet another Sweep ragtop !  Correction .... Dodge built 700 of these for 58.
This white with red sweep color combo must have been painted on 75% of all Sweep ragtops.
I have seen more with this paint scheme than all others combined. Makes it hard to track cars.
This looks like it could be Eric Jarstadt's old car, but how can you tell ???? 
Neat to see these pop up.
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Location: Houston | Of the 700 built in 1958, only 832 remain..... |
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Location: Perth Australia | Is this car common over there?
mick |
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| Wow! I owned the twin to this car! It was a one owner and always a Washinton state car. It was 100% original and had the 350 engine still in place. I sold it years ago
and it ended up at Bo Malefors place in Phoenix. I think he sold it to someone in Sweden. |
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Location: SW MO | He's "entertaining" offers. Anybody want to toss out a number they feel is realistic ? I think the seller may be somewhat disappointed in what reality may bring. I'm thinking like something on the order of about 5% of what the "last one" sold for. |
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Location: Lordstown, Ohio | I offered $12500.00 for it. The car has rotted floors/trunk bottoms of quarters, fenders. Not sagging yet but starting. I was told he would like to see close to 20k if I read between the lines in our talks
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | The ad's been removed; thank Exner that its image/description got posted here, before it was too late!
That car could have sold from anywhere from $10K to $25K, depending upon the knowledge and the motivation
of the seller, and the buyer.
The background views indicate that the seller was rather familiar with automotive items; now, how badly he needed
to sell this car is not known, but, his yard is not upscale, so, a down-home, personal-visit sales approach would probably be needed to gain his agreement to meet 'your' price on the car.
Also, the longer that the car has been for sale, the more likely it is that the seller will meet 'your' price.
The trick would be not to appear that you are too-interested in the car, that you are not going to
Speculate/Profit on its purchase, and that your offer is essentially all the money that you can afford to pay for this car, which you will, then, restore, yourself, over many (expensive) years to come.
Edited by d500neil 2011-05-13 4:25 PM
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Location: Parts Unknown | ttotired - 2011-05-14 6:28 AM
Is this car common over there?
mick
*********************************************
Common ? No.
But if you are one of THOSE GUYS who will only settle for a 57 or 58 DeSoto convertible,
you will turn up what seems like "oodles" of these things before you ever find a Firedome.
Finding a Fireflite is even harder. I was THAT GUY and was very frustrated by hunting down
leads only to find a 58 Firesweep or a 59.
1958 DeSoto convertible production numbers:
82 Adventurer
474 Fireflite
519 Firedome (?)
700 Firesweep
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Location: Victoria, BC, on Vancouver Island, Canada | Doctor DeSoto - 2011-05-14 7:01 AM
ttotired - 2011-05-14 6:28 AM
Is this car common over there?
mick
*********************************************
Common ? No.
But if you are one of THOSE GUYS who will only settle for a 57 or 58 DeSoto convertible,
you will turn up what seems like "oodles" of these things before you ever find a Firedome.
Finding a Fireflite is even harder. I was THAT GUY and was very frustrated by hunting down
leads only to find a 58 Firesweep or a 59.
1958 DeSoto convertible production numbers:
82 Adventurer
474 Fireflite
519 Firedome (? )
700 Firesweep
I'm surprised that Firedomes were built as convertibles. In the Chrysler lineup, you could only get converts in Windsor and NYer. Saratogas weren't offered in convertible or wagon form. I think Dodge was the same way, only Coronet and Custom Royal converts. I don't think they build Royal converts but not positive. |
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Location: Parts Unknown | Correct. No Royal convertibles.
I find the whole Firesweep idea to be baffling. Why offer a half-breed car that competes
with another of the company's divisions ? The blurring of the lines between makes ultimately
did DeSoto in. The short-term gain proved the long-term fatal blow ... and "long term" is
used loosely, as DeSoto closely rivaled Chrysler sales in 56 and 57, yet within just a few
short years the game was over.
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | DeSoto, obviously (just like for Dodge), wanted a major price-style-COST break between its vert models.
You could either afford a CRL/Fireflite, or not..." but WAIT; we STILL have got a vert for you! Lookkee here, guy,
it's a Coro/Sweep, and it's got YOUR name on it, yadayadayada,,,"
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Location: Lordstown, Ohio | OK, someone educate me here. This car is the base/entry level of the Desoto's? What engine is suppose to be in it? There is a late model 383 in it now. The PB system has a later model vacum/dual cylinder in it. What parts would be interchangable for this car,ie; sheetmetal, floors, bumpers. Is there a repop interior kits available? Like a Mustang/Camaro. Or is the interior have to all be custom made? What are the most important parts to see if they are on it and hard to find?
I am asking all this mainly because I have a big interest in it. I want to know all the pros/cons. If there are way to many cons, then the pursuit of the 61 Plymouth convertible will continue
Wayne |
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Expert 5K+
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Location: Perth Australia | Hi Wayne
I thought you were dead keen on the 61
If thats what you really want, isnt it better to hold out for one?
Mick |
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Location: Sept. 1958 | w.weiland - 2011-05-14 8:21 PM
OK, someone educate me here. This car is the base/entry level of the Desoto's? What engine is suppose to be in it? There is a late model 383 in it now. The PB system has a later model vacum/dual cylinder in it. What parts would be interchangable for this car,ie; sheetmetal, floors, bumpers. Is there a repop interior kits available? Like a Mustang/Camaro. Or is the interior have to all be custom made? What are the most important parts to see if they are on it and hard to find?
I am asking all this mainly because I have a big interest in it. I want to know all the pros/cons. If there are way to many cons, then the pursuit of the 61 Plymouth convertible will continue
Wayne
Yes, base level Desoto. Engine should be a 350 CID engine. The body shell is Desoto/Chrysler, but the front end sheet metal is Dodge. Correct interior material should be available from SMS. |
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Location: Parts Unknown | w.weiland - 2011-05-15 5:21 PM
OK, someone educate me here. This car is the base/entry level of the Desoto's? What engine is suppose to be in it? There is a late model 383 in it now. The PB system has a later model vacum/dual cylinder in it. What parts would be interchangable for this car,ie; sheetmetal, floors, bumpers. Is there a repop interior kits available? Like a Mustang/Camaro. Or is the interior have to all be custom made? What are the most important parts to see if they are on it and hard to find?
I am asking all this mainly because I have a big interest in it. I want to know all the pros/cons. If there are way to many cons, then the pursuit of the 61 Plymouth convertible will continue
Wayne
*****************************************************************
The Firesweep convertible is ALL Dodge, except for the body shell (cowl on back) and related trim,
i.e. interior and side trim, rear bumper, etc.
ALL else is Dodge or Firesweep only. ..... Frame, chassis, nose clip, front bumper, engine, etc.
Interiors for all FL cars is pretty much custom. This one is no different. No Camero kits here !
Hit me with specifics if you want more info. I know these cars well.
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Location: Lordstown, Ohio | ttotired - 2011-05-14 8:34 PM
Hi Wayne
I thought you were dead keen on the 61
If thats what you really want, isnt it better to hold out for one?
Mick
Mick,
You are correct in what you said, BUT,... before I ever purchased the 60 Fury convertible that I just sold, the Desoto convertible is what I really wanted. Reality set in and thats why I purchased the 60 ( meaning I realized I may never find a Desoto convertible) After I purchased the 60, the 61's became so much more appealing to me. Thats why I am now pursueing one.
BUT and now I say it again Here this Desoto pops up. What I really like and would much rather have. Which is bad, because now I need to decide, is this car really worth it? I have been talking with the guy quite a bit. The car is missing alot of the sheetmetal,there is a plywood trunk floor, with a metal bar holding gas tank in place. Floor areas sound to be the same shape. Wrong engine and trans,no heater box, brake cylinder different, no rear seat
What I really would like to know, is this car worth sinking 50k plus in (maybe just in parts) not including my time 2-4years Orget the 61 thats a decent driver Thats where I am at. I hate it when these things happen |
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| Since I have "wrestled" with many rusted but desirable cars, my 2 cents worth is to forget this '58! For the rust that you can see, there's usually a whole lot more that you can't! I owned the exact same car years ago and even though it was rust free, it was still a big project. As Doc says, the '58 Firesweep is really a Dodge in Desoto disguise and it is just not the same as the "big Desotos"...I'm sure others will diagree with me on that, though! It's a neat car, but this example just sounds like too much work! |
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Location: Parts Unknown | Various things in the description of this car make me think I know this particular vehicle.
If it is the same car, it needed EVERYTHING in 1990 and the asking price was $10K at the
time. Around that time I bought two identical cars for $1500 and $2500 respectively,
however neither ran. It had been my intention to build a "real" DeSoto from them using
a full size frame, etc., but in my continuing search turned up my Fireflite and the mix-n-
match program was cancelled. One Sweep went to Bo Malefors and I have forgotten who
got the other. I just walked away from the $10K car and have heard nothing more about
it in many years.
Has the seller told you where this car came from ?
I'm not the kind of guy to turn a good money pit down. Never been afraid of building them
from scratch, and good fiscal sensibilities go right out the window when I see the profile of a
big body 57-58 DeSoto convertible. So, I'd probably be the last guy you would want to ask
about doing a car like this in the most "practical" way.
However, if this is your dream car and you don't want another lifetime to pass before you
see another chance, then maybe getting stupid about it is not the worst possible option and
you will at least have something to start with.
I would say that the chance of another Sweep popping up are fairly good. Did you see the
one that came up for sale on the Detroit Craigslist last September ? That one sold for under
$15K and came with a mountain of parts and sheet metal. I was looking at it seriously when
my deployment came through.
I would not hold out such optimism for a big body car being seen so "frequently". I was
relentless in my pursuit of one from the early 80's to 1995 and found only a few that were not
$100K trailer queens or so bad they were beyond even my best efforts to save.
A lot of variables here, and the biggest one is just how important is having your dream car ....
... ans is THIS that car ? If you decide it is, I will be happy to share anything I know about them
with you.
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Location: Perth Australia | Good Advice Doc
The plym i have has turned out to be a bit more than I can handle and i am now daily cruising the for sale sections looking for one that is more towards my abilities.
my plym will either be sold to someone with more metalwork talents than me or will become the car that said talents are learnt on
sometimes though you have to strike while the irons hot or you will miss out. Its a hard one, will a better one come along at reasonable cost?
I think this is where the gambler comes in, just have to do all you can to make sure you win the bet.
If it full of rust and your like me and not a magician with sheet metal and cant afford to pay someone who is, then best let it go and hope that a better one turns up.
Good luck Wayne and i hope whichever way it turns out, your happy
Mick |
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Location: Parts Unknown | I was once just frozen in my tracks by rust. Had no idea what to do and went into
brainlock on where to start or how to tackle it. Then I met Big Jim, or as we called
him ... "Sledgehammer". Jim set me straight .... it's just metal, he said, don't be
afraid of it. Jim mashed it around like soft clay. Chop here, cut there, beat on it ,
get it hot and pound some more. When you like it, you weld it into place and move
on to the next spot that needs attention. Make a winter of it. Like you were doing
something better on all those cold nights, right ?  Don't like the way it turned
out ? Cut it out and try again. Like Jim said, it's just metal ....
Remember, the journey is the best part of the trip !
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Location: Lordstown, Ohio | The skillset is not a issue for me. I have done collision repair for 22+ years mostly on cars with anywhere from 15k to 35k worth of damage. Rust repair is no different, providing, you have enough to go on.
My concerns are the availablity of the items to bring the car back. ie doner car for panels,engine trans and so on.
Then the intial cost to purchase it, is it worth the amount |
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Posts: 4654
| It will be interesting to see what the "done" Firesweep conv will do this coming weekend at Mecum. I like to figure a cars present value and work backwards from there, considering parts and resto cost, also allowing more for unforseen issues. A parts car locally found would be a plus. |
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Location: Parts Unknown | w.weiland - 2011-05-16 10:36 AM
The skillset is not a issue for me. I have done collision repair for 22+ years mostly on cars with anywhere from 15k to 35k worth of damage. Rust repair is no different, providing, you have enough to go on.
My concerns are the availablity of the items to bring the car back. ie doner car for panels,engine trans and so on.
Then the intial cost to purchase it, is it worth the amount
***********************************************
I rebuilt my Fireflite saving only the chassis, cowl, and rear clip above the trim line. While not
EASY to find, parts are not totally impossible. It looks to me like this car is not missing any major
unobtainium. It does have a top, right ?
Edited by Doctor DeSoto 2011-05-15 10:20 PM
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Location: Lordstown, Ohio | It has the top, missing rear seat. trim around the top around the top well. The trim inside the windsheild. Rear seat is missing. Wrong engine,trans no heater box, wrong Brake cylinder/ booster.
Its tough, when this happens. |
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Posts: 254
Location: Austria, Vienna | Trim is the problem, almost impossible to find and very hard to reproduce... Does firesweep has inside windshield trim like bigger desoto ( stainless ) or like dodge - painted?
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Location: Parts Unknown | Trim inside the windshield is the same on the flat, dash area to ALL 57-59 cars.
Rear seat can be made from a sedan back seat, just narrowed for the top well and wheel tubs ...
... no problem there.
The wrong engine and trans are an easy swap, and depending on what is currently in there, I might
not bother changing it.
The heater box is common as dirt ... used on MANY different cars.
All-in-all,, I'd say the only hard stuff to find will be the top well trim and inner windshield header trim
(if that is indeed what is missing) .. both of which are common to ALL 57-58 convertibles, making it a
little less impossible.
The car I knew of had the 383 swap and Aspen discs on the front. It was also missing the rear seat,
the photos look just like how I remember the yard I went and looked at it in and thinking back on it,
I think I remember the guy saying he had family in ND.
What is the seller's name ?
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Location: Parts Unknown | Here is a correct engine for sale right on this site.
http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=35912&...
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Location: georgia | The car is missing the sun visors,the trim on the convertible top all the windshield trim inside and out,the well trim the back seat and the original vin tag. You might say all the good stuff is missing but the top assembly and latches. Too much stuff missing for me. |
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Location: Lordstown, Ohio | I was never told the VIN tag was missing. That seals my thoughts on this. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Wayne, as long as there are any records on the VIN, AG Back East can repop a VIN tag for you.
For a derelict, or Kustom-created car, with no VIN-info, some states will allow you to create a State-OK'ed generic VIN for it.
As a last resort, on a really rare car, the Chrysler Historical Society can probably research a car's engine number, to
cross-reference to its VIN, but, they'd have to be assured of your ownership of the remains, and, they would charge a
lot of dinero, for their research hours spent at their microfilm machines looking for your car's engine number, which
is ink stamped onto the IBM build cards.
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| I almost bought a red '63 Polara max wedge conv that set some et/mph records until I discovered it too was missing the VIN plate. Good thing you discovered that now. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Is that red 1963 Max Wedge vert still available, Dave?
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Location: Lordstown, Ohio | But the car does not have the correct or original engine in it. Then what. I think it may be best to let it go on its way and for me to keep looking. I guess sticking with trying to find a 61 plymouth convertible will be a little easier?? |
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Posts: 4654
| Neil, I think the guy in NJ still has the car. It was raced by Dan D. of "max wedge fame" and featured in at least one magazine article. |
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Location: Parts Unknown | With a missing VIN, sounds like the perfect rebody project for a nice Fireflite !!!
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Location: Fleetwood, Pa | I think that's exactly what I'd do. Wait for a good solid Firedome-Fireflite 2 dr hdtp restoration project car. You could strip this one down, pull the body off the frame, use the hardtop body for patches, and "presto" you've got a Firedome/Fireflite convertible. If it indeed is your "dream car" you'll probably never sell it, so who cares about "numbers matching".......I'm planning on doing this exact thing only it's not a forward look car and my 2 dr hdtp donor is completely rust free, thanks to John at "Big M"...... |
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Location: Austria, Vienna | Who finally bought it? |
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Location: The Mile High City | Too rich for me! |
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Posts: 4654
| Did the guy sell it, or just decide to keep it? I asked him a few questions, but he never answered me. |
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Posts: 1492
Location: Lordstown, Ohio | He has not sold it yet. He wants 15k+ for it. Also he has some stipulations in the sale. Does not want the car to go out of the US. A sure thing that whoever buys it, restores it. Pictures of the restoration all the way through. Ability to drive it after its done.
Lot of other things that have some concerns with me now. I have asked for detailed pictures of ALL the rust, got very very vague pictures. I don't know, it seems like its one of those "to good to be true" Things |
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Location: The Mile High City | Very strange. It sounds like he is not ready to let go yet. Who would ever buy anything with those types of conditions? Here, I will sell you my car, you restore it and let me drive it! Sweet deal if you can get it
With those types of conditions, the car should be free - at the very least!
Edited by Lancer Mike 2011-05-17 8:52 PM
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Location: Perth Australia | No way in the world would I let someone put conditions like that on a car I bought
If I buy a car, Its ownership transfers to me totally.
So what happens if you agree to his conditions to get the sale through, but once its done
not let him drive it?
Does he have the right to say you havnt fullfilled your contract of sale and try to get the car back?
To me, if you sell a car, you give up all rights to it, end of story.
No problem if its a request (as in, if you dont mind, I would like to see pics of it ect) but not a condition of sale
Mick |
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Location: Parts Unknown | It has been confirmed that this is the Jarstad car I looked at 20+ years ago. Those photos are taken
in Jarstad's yard in Washington state and are 20 years old. The seller is making comments about
breaking the news to his stepdad that the car has been sold. This has red flags all over it. I put out
an APB to contact Jarstad to confirm current ownership of the car. The "stepson" seller may come
clean or find himself up to his elbowguards in fecal matter much soonly. Danger, Will Robinson !!! 
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Location: Upplands Väsby, Sweden | carjock - 2011-05-13 9:37 AM
Wow! I owned the twin to this car! It was a one owner and always a Washinton state car. It was 100% original and had the 350 engine still in place. I sold it years ago
and it ended up at Bo Malefors place in Phoenix. I think he sold it to someone in Sweden.
This FireSweep 58 is on Bo Malefors home site at sold cars.
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Location: Parts Unknown | The one I sold him had a black top like this. What color was the top on the one you sold him, Jim ?
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Location: Austria, Vienna | Is top frame and convertible parts on Firesweep are the same like firedome/fireflite or lime dodge /Plymouth as wheel base is different?
As for his sale conditions he is crazy. He has nothing to do with the car, he is just playing games or want to screw up somebody.
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Location: Upplands Väsby, Sweden | parat11 - 2011-05-18 3:58 AM
Is top frame and convertible parts on Firesweep are the same like firedome/fireflite or lime dodge /Plymouth as wheel base is different?
As for his sale conditions he is crazy. He has nothing to do with the car, he is just playing games or want to screw up somebody.
Yes it same top frame at all DeSoto and Chrysler 1957-59. Most likely, the same dodge as well? At Plymouth is one off the three side bows shorter (Plymouth conv have a shorter rear side glas).
Edited by Windsor59 2011-05-18 5:22 AM
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Location: Austria, Vienna | Plymoyh and dodge are the same.... |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Well, if Plymouth & Dodge have physically shorter/different top structures than the big-cars, then this Dodge-built
Firesweep vert would have the shorter DOD/PLY top mechanisms. |
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1958 DeSoto Firesweep Convertible
