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1958 regal lancer restoration
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springsweptwing
Posted 2014-12-07 8:59 PM (#463922 - in reply to #275315)
Subject: RE: 1958 regal lancer restoration



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Been on with rear axle today, axle casing a bit rusty so not to easy to see the original markings but it looks as though there is a Yellow X on the front and a Green paint daub on the rear, the differential housing as far as i can tell was originally Black and has Blue and Green paint daubs on the side, there are also some Yellow marks on the yoke near the UJ and pinion nut?



(p1010004.JPG)



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springsweptwing
Posted 2014-12-07 9:02 PM (#463923 - in reply to #275315)
Subject: RE: 1958 regal lancer restoration



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Differential



(DSC_0109.JPG)



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d500neil
Posted 2014-12-08 1:48 AM (#463953 - in reply to #275315)
Subject: Re: 1958 regal lancer restoration



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

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I'd like to share a few drinks with Paul & Greg....talking about restoration details; but they'd probably have me under the table quickly.



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LD3 Greg
Posted 2014-12-08 12:48 PM (#463984 - in reply to #463953)
Subject: Re: 1958 regal lancer restoration


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Restorative details and drinks should go well together!! Paul is taking anything I had to new levels. Great work and thanks for sharing!

Greg
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springsweptwing
Posted 2014-12-10 8:38 PM (#464272 - in reply to #275315)
Subject: RE: 1958 regal lancer restoration



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Differential, cleaned, new oil seal and painted ready to install.



(diff paint4.JPG)



(diff paint5.JPG)



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Attachments diff paint4.JPG (61KB - 108 downloads)
Attachments diff paint5.JPG (73KB - 99 downloads)
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d500neil
Posted 2014-12-10 10:15 PM (#464283 - in reply to #464272)
Subject: Re: 1958 regal lancer restoration



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

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Paul, if it is not too late, our cars' differential carriers are NOT painted, but should appear in unpainted, bare-metal finish.

If I were near my computer files, I could send you several pictures, of correctly finished/appearing restored carrier assemblies.

But Greg has good images that he can send to you of properly-appearing carrier assemblies.

A real "bare-cast iron" carrier will naturally corrode(duh).

A fully-stripped/blasted (good luck) carrier, with a very heavy clear coat application will also [eventually] corrode.

Your best bet is to clean/sand-blast the carrier's surface, back to bare OEM rough-finish and then brush-on/apply "bare-steel" paint over the
now-roughened cast iron surface, because 'nobody' will get up-close-and-personal with the carrier, once its installed
in the chassis, to detect (easily) that the carrier unit is painted----you can clear-coat over the carrier's securing-nuts, to keep them shiny.


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LD3 Greg
Posted 2014-12-11 12:09 AM (#464293 - in reply to #464283)
Subject: Re: 1958 regal lancer restoration


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I guess the difficult question here is whether to restore to what we believe to be "how these items left the factory" OR how it actually did leave the factory?!! The majority of research would support what Neil said.

Obviously, this carrier was black painted BEFORE it got any inspection or ID paint daubs applied to it. A good strong argument that that is how it left the factory!!

In order to support the decision, Paul should pop a few of his pics in the glovebox. Should make for some fun discussions down the road!

In any case, I'm looking forward to viewing Paul's project when it is done. Good job!!

Greg
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d500neil
Posted 2014-12-11 12:28 AM (#464295 - in reply to #275315)
Subject: Re: 1958 regal lancer restoration



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

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Well, the 'first' question would be: IS that Paul's car's OEM carrier/AXLE housing assembly.... and is it (presently) finished in its OEM paint scheme: "gloss black" (OK; that's two questions).

What do the paint daubs specifically identify, for Paul's axle assembly?

Next question is: why does it (Paul's car) have a black painted carrier assembly on it?

Wish I had access to my file records, now, but no....

All evidence, to date, on the OEM carriers, is that they were NOT painted...and, this is supported by a particular Technical Service Bulletin, from 3/57 (IIRC, now).

Finally, the axle assemblies happen to look GOOD....having non-painted carrier assemblies on them.

The axle prop shafts are shiny bare steel, OEM.





Edited by d500neil 2014-12-11 12:36 AM
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60 Imp
Posted 2014-12-11 6:33 AM (#464315 - in reply to #275315)
Subject: RE: 1958 regal lancer restoration


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Location: North Australia
I like original cars, but if you pull it apart and rebuild it, is it original still?

I have a saying, Paint it black, and put it back!

By the way, looks like you are doing a superb job on that car, well done.

Steve.

Edited by 60 Imp 2014-12-11 6:37 AM
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ToMopar
Posted 2014-12-11 7:03 AM (#464316 - in reply to #275315)
Subject: Re: 1958 regal lancer restoration



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Hi Paul,

I've seen on picture "diff paint4.JPG" a Mini 90 onwards at background.....
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d500neil
Posted 2014-12-12 1:46 AM (#464422 - in reply to #275315)
Subject: Re: 1958 regal lancer restoration



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

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Yeah..Paul is doing a superb job, to date!

The OEM differential carrier housing is supposed to appear in un-painted natural-factory-preparation/assembly appearance.


There is a Technical Service Bulletin that was specifically issued to address/confirm the chassis/suspension components that were not painted...
including the carrier assemblies.


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d500neil
Posted 2014-12-12 2:05 AM (#464425 - in reply to #464422)
Subject: Re: 1958 regal lancer restoration



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

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Here you-all go:

http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=34786&... chassis&highlightmode=1#M415703



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springsweptwing
Posted 2014-12-12 9:21 PM (#464481 - in reply to #464316)
Subject: Re: 1958 regal lancer restoration



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ToMopar - 2014-12-11 12:03 PM

Hi Paul,

I've seen on picture "diff paint4.JPG" a Mini 90 onwards at background.....


Hi Tom,

yes 1990 Mini, ongoing project lad`s first car.
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springsweptwing
Posted 2014-12-12 9:35 PM (#464483 - in reply to #464295)
Subject: Re: 1958 regal lancer restoration



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d500neil - 2014-12-11 5:28 AM

Well, the 'first' question would be: IS that Paul's car's OEM carrier/AXLE housing assembly.... and is it (presently) finished in its OEM paint scheme: "gloss black" (OK; that's two questions).

What do the paint daubs specifically identify, for Paul's axle assembly?

Next question is: why does it (Paul's car) have a black painted carrier assembly on it?

Wish I had access to my file records, now, but no....

All evidence, to date, on the OEM carriers, is that they were NOT painted...and, this is supported by a particular Technical Service Bulletin, from 3/57 (IIRC, now).

Finally, the axle assemblies happen to look GOOD....having non-painted carrier assemblies on them.

The axle prop shafts are shiny bare steel, OEM.






Hi Neil,

i know the carriers are usually bare steel, but this one appeared to be Black as pictured, maybe they had a supplier that painted a run of them, or they changed suppliers for a while, only way to tell for sure is to have been there when they were building the car`s, so i ended up going with the original color of the housing, it looks to be original and has the 58 stamping on the lower face near the ratio,

the green mark i think is that the diff has been checked, the Blue is the ratio 3:15, there is also Green spray on rear of axle which is a checked mark, the Yellow X is a final inspection mark, and the 2 Yellow marks on flange are probably to say joint has been tightened?

there`s more info from greg and others on the 300 club site,

http://www.chrysler300club.com/jhstuff/rear/hams.html


Paul.
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springsweptwing
Posted 2014-12-12 9:36 PM (#464484 - in reply to #275315)
Subject: RE: 1958 regal lancer restoration



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Here`s axle at moment, just waiting on back plates so i can get brakes together,



(axle fin.JPG)



(axle fin2.JPG)



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springsweptwing
Posted 2014-12-12 9:42 PM (#464486 - in reply to #275315)
Subject: RE: 1958 regal lancer restoration



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Whilst going through my pictures i found some of the under body, which is in Red oxide, and over painted with Black, the whole car looks to have been painted Black first inside and out, then masked for the Bronze after,

also note the front body mounts have a plastic washer between them and the frame, with a bit of sealing compound on the stud probably to stop the washer falling off before the body was mounted,



(paint under.JPG)



(paint under2.JPG)



(paint under3.JPG)



(paint front mount.JPG)



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Attachments paint front mount3.JPG (66KB - 104 downloads)
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d500neil
Posted 2014-12-13 2:28 AM (#464499 - in reply to #464486)
Subject: Re: 1958 regal lancer restoration



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

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Paul, you should check out your car's IBM Build card and/or its Broadcast sheet (right....).

Its axle ratio WILL be encoded on those documents.

I'm not at my home during DEC, so I can't confirm the OEM axle ratio coding on your car....but, the 'answer' to
the OEM ratio...and, maybe to the reason why the carrier may (presently) be painted in black.....should be
determinable....from several sources, including the AMA Specification sheets; it is possible that your car's carrier
housing may have flunked an assembly inspection, and that it may have been replaced with a 'factory' sub-assembly repair/replacement
part....which was pre-painted black, to preserve the part from shelf-corrosion.

The paint daubs were, then, applied on top of the black construction paint.


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LD3 Greg
Posted 2014-12-13 11:45 AM (#464531 - in reply to #464499)
Subject: Re: 1958 regal lancer restoration


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Paul,
If you have the punch card or the broadcast sheet, please see if it has code: 553 or 55- B in the " axle" area.
Thanks,
Greg
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springsweptwing
Posted 2014-12-18 12:07 AM (#465038 - in reply to #275315)
Subject: Re: 1958 regal lancer restoration



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No broadcast sheet or IBM card for car yet, housing looks to have been Black before bearing caps were installed or any machining done to housing?
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springsweptwing
Posted 2015-04-08 11:20 PM (#474801 - in reply to #275315)
Subject: RE: 1958 regal lancer restoration



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Axle differential been bugging me, and decided in end to paint as others would have been from factory,



(diff new paint.JPG)



(diff new paint3.JPG)



(diff new paint4.JPG)



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d500neil
Posted 2015-04-09 6:43 PM (#474878 - in reply to #275315)
Subject: Re: 1958 regal lancer restoration



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

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Location: bishop, ca
GOOD on ya, Paul, for that decision!


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LD3 Greg
Posted 2015-04-09 7:46 PM (#474885 - in reply to #474801)
Subject: RE: 1958 regal lancer restoration


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Looks good, Paul. Did you get the rear springs sorted out yet?

Greg
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springsweptwing
Posted 2015-04-12 9:38 PM (#475280 - in reply to #474885)
Subject: RE: 1958 regal lancer restoration



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LD3 Greg - 2015-04-10 12:46 AM

Looks good, Paul. Did you get the rear springs sorted out yet?

Greg


got a couple off places in the pipeline
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springsweptwing
Posted 2015-04-12 9:43 PM (#475281 - in reply to #275315)
Subject: RE: 1958 regal lancer restoration



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which are the correct wheel rims for Dodge? I have some with a offset rim



(wide rim.JPG)



(wide rim2.JPG)



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springsweptwing
Posted 2015-04-12 9:45 PM (#475282 - in reply to #275315)
Subject: RE: 1958 regal lancer restoration



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or these with rim further in?



(thin rim.JPG)



(thin rim2.JPG)



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LD3 Greg
Posted 2015-04-12 10:14 PM (#475285 - in reply to #475282)
Subject: RE: 1958 regal lancer restoration


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I think the first one. I don't recognize the second rim.

Greg
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2015-04-13 12:41 PM (#475323 - in reply to #475281)
Subject: RE: 1958 regal lancer restoration



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I thought the Dodge rims had hubcap nubs like the second image set. I thought only the long-wheel base Chryslers and De Sotos (probably Imperials too) had no nubs like the first image set and thus would only be fitted with wheel covers?
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LD3 Greg
Posted 2015-04-13 2:05 PM (#475332 - in reply to #475323)
Subject: RE: 1958 regal lancer restoration


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It's just the offset (inset in this case) I don't think is right. They would be great with fender skirts!

Greg
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Joe Mac
Posted 2015-05-15 12:29 PM (#478356 - in reply to #275315)
Subject: Re: 1958 regal lancer restoration



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Let's see if I can attach this excerpt from the Motor Wheel catalog. They list the offset and the lack of hubcap clips for the 5.5" wide rim that is probably what your LD3 came with. Budd also provided OEM wheels and these may or may not have had the hubcap clips but otherwise dimensionally the same.



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Attachments MotorWheelCat_1964a.pdf (169KB - 124 downloads)
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springsweptwing
Posted 2016-12-10 8:02 PM (#528379 - in reply to #478356)
Subject: Re: 1958 regal lancer restoration



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Not been upto much lately on the car, finished the underside and cleaned off all the old loose undercoating, couple of coats of etch primer and the underrated, will give this a few more coats before body goes back on frame.



(20161126_233255.jpg)



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springsweptwing
Posted 2016-12-11 9:56 AM (#528407 - in reply to #528379)
Subject: Re: 1958 regal lancer restoration



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1st coat underseal.



(20161127_012228.jpg)



(20161127_012233.jpg)



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springsweptwing
Posted 2016-12-11 10:03 AM (#528408 - in reply to #528407)
Subject: Re: 1958 regal lancer restoration



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Rear springs finally sorted out, fitted with new interliners and bushes



(20161130_032709.jpg)



(20161205_175515.jpg)



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springsweptwing
Posted 2016-12-11 10:08 AM (#528409 - in reply to #528408)
Subject: Re: 1958 regal lancer restoration



Elite Veteran

Posts: 982
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Location: Blackpool, United Kingdom.
Engine fully rebuilt, just needs valve covers painting Gold, trans bolting on then ready to go in.



(20160904_234205.jpg)



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Lancer Mike
Posted 2016-12-11 12:18 PM (#528420 - in reply to #528379)
Subject: Re: 1958 regal lancer restoration



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outstanding, Paul! A tremendous restoration by any standard!
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moparsteve
Posted 2016-12-11 3:37 PM (#528425 - in reply to #275315)
Subject: RE: 1958 regal lancer restoration


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well with attn to detail and shiny chassis and nice painted engine you can imagine how its gonna look when done!!!!!
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56D500boy
Posted 2016-12-11 4:16 PM (#528426 - in reply to #528408)
Subject: Re: 1958 regal lancer restoration



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All looking very good. Keep up the good work.

Questions

1. What is a "Regal"? I know what a Lancer is and what a Royal is but not a Regal. I might have fallen asleep that day in Forward Look 101.

2. I have a 5 leaf rear spring system. True D-500s have 6 springs. Question: Where does the 6th spring go? Bottom? Top? Middle?

Your six leaf system:



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springsweptwing
Posted 2016-12-11 4:29 PM (#528427 - in reply to #528426)
Subject: Re: 1958 regal lancer restoration



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56D500boy - 2016-12-11 9:16 PM

All looking very good. Keep up the good work.

Questions

1. What is a "Regal"? I know what a Lancer is and what a Royal is but not a Regal. I might have fallen asleep that day in Forward Look 101.

:)


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1958_Dodge
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springsweptwing
Posted 2016-12-11 4:33 PM (#528428 - in reply to #528426)
Subject: Re: 1958 regal lancer restoration



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56D500boy - 2016-12-11 9:16 PM

All looking very good. Keep up the good work.

Questions

2. I have a 5 leaf rear spring system. True D-500s have 6 springs. Question: Where does the 6th spring go? Bottom? Top? Middle?

Your six leaf system:



:)


I don't think it's as easy as just adding another leaf in there, you will need to make sure there is enough overlap between leafs, but I would have thought it to be the bottom 2 leafs to be different?





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56D500boy
Posted 2016-12-11 5:00 PM (#528431 - in reply to #528427)
Subject: Re: 1958 regal lancer restoration



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springsweptwing - 2016-12-11 4:29 PM

56D500boy - 2016-12-11 9:16 PM

Question:
1. What is a "Regal"? I know what a Lancer is and what a Royal is but not a Regal. I might have fallen asleep that day in Forward Look 101.

:)


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1958_Dodge


Thanks very much. I just learned something - usually do coming here. Never heard of a Regal other than Buick. Now I know.

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springsweptwing
Posted 2017-06-07 7:15 AM (#541679 - in reply to #528431)
Subject: Re: 1958 regal lancer restoration



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Build card from FCA, but they are to busy to decode it?



(1496172397743.jpg)



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Lancer Mike
Posted 2017-06-07 12:52 PM (#541704 - in reply to #541679)
Subject: Re: 1958 regal lancer restoration



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Hi, Paul -

If you can post a better image, I am sure Greg Leggatt can decode it! (sorry to put you on the spot, Greg)
It is strange that Fiat didn't send you a decode! Maybe the closure of the museum and ensuing shuffle has something to do with it.
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springsweptwing
Posted 2017-06-07 2:37 PM (#541714 - in reply to #275315)
Subject: Re: 1958 regal lancer restoration



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Yes will put through scanner and try to clean it up a bit, I had 3 cars done and they only gave me copies of build cards and a letter with the original dealers and to say that with other commitments and limited staff were unable to decode the cards?
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LD3 Greg
Posted 2017-06-07 11:50 PM (#541755 - in reply to #541704)
Subject: Re: 1958 regal lancer restoration


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Lancer Mike - 2017-06-07 12:52 PM

Hi, Paul -

If you can post a better image, I am sure Greg Leggatt can decode it! (sorry to put you on the spot, Greg)


No problem, Mike.
Paul and I have been corresponding for some time!

Greg
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MoparMej
Posted 2017-06-22 11:44 PM (#542693 - in reply to #275315)
Subject: Re: 1958 regal lancer restoration


New User

Posts: 4

So I am hoping you all can help. What is the average going price for a Regal Lancer?
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2017-06-23 2:56 PM (#542728 - in reply to #542693)
Subject: Re: 1958 regal lancer restoration



5000200010001002525
Location: Queen City of the Plains
Tough to say, Mary. It all depends on condition. Are you looking at the one that was recently on eBay in California?
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MoparMej
Posted 2017-06-24 8:52 PM (#542808 - in reply to #542728)
Subject: Re: 1958 regal lancer restoration


New User

Posts: 4

No I am trying to sell one for my father. But since there aren't many out there it is hard to gauge the value. It is in good condition. Not prefect, but good. I am new to this whole forum thing. How do you post pictures?


Edited by MoparMej 2017-06-24 9:00 PM
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2017-06-25 8:42 AM (#542825 - in reply to #542808)
Subject: Re: 1958 regal lancer restoration



5000200010001002525
Location: Queen City of the Plains

The pictures have to be 250KB or less. Typically, when you take a picture with a digital camera, it may be several MB. You can open it with the Paint program and resize it and then post it here. I think there are some threads about how to post pictures in the FAQ section. There is also a Regal Lancer thread you can post it to:

http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=22359&posts=645&start=1

 

This thread is about Paul's restoration project, so it might be more appropriate in the above thread.  You may have to copy and paste that link.  Sometimes my computer does not make the link automatically.



Edited by Lancer Mike 2017-06-25 8:47 AM
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springsweptwing
Posted 2017-06-25 10:34 AM (#542833 - in reply to #275315)
Subject: Re: 1958 regal lancer restoration



Elite Veteran

Posts: 982
500100100100100252525
Location: Blackpool, United Kingdom.
Hi Mary,

I have put some of you're pictures in the Regal lancer thread, you will get more coverage and replies there, also try a ad in the for sale section,


http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=22359

Paul.
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MoparMej
Posted 2017-08-04 6:36 PM (#545594 - in reply to #275315)
Subject: Re: 1958 regal lancer restoration


New User

Posts: 4

Ok so I am familiar with the fender tags etc on the 60s dodges, but not the '58s. Where is the build sheets usually located on a 1958 Regal Lancer?
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2017-08-06 6:48 PM (#545714 - in reply to #545594)
Subject: Re: 1958 regal lancer restoration



5000200010001002525
Location: Queen City of the Plains
Hi, Mary:

You have the VIN tag on the inside door jam, driver's side. There is a cowl data tag near the passenger side hood spring on the cowl.
On some cars, you can still find the paper broadcast sheet taped to the top side of the glove compartment.

You can contact Chrysler Historical (see the VIN tag decode section of the forums) and they can send you a copy of the production punch card for your vehicle.
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