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Location: Seville, OH | The vert being restored in CA has the body and frame. The current owner told me all the details of where it was found and what he got. It is rough but much worse have been restored. Dave |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
  
Location: bishop, ca | OK, Wayne, until an auto trannie 501 is found to (have-)exist(ed), shall we agree to stipulate that NONE of the 92-found D501's had an auto-trannie in them, and that the 1/57 AMA Specs state that NO auto trannies are to be available in any of the 1957 D501 car models?
Edited by d500neil 2011-06-30 5:26 PM
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Location: Seville, OH | Neil,
The 9/91 MCG article doesn't mention at all how the TF was installed in the vert. It's tranny isn't even mentioned in the article. It only shows up in the "spec" box as a TorqueFlight. Did you get that info directly from MCG? Or somewhere else? Has that car been ID'ed in Darrel's list? Dave |
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Location: Under the X in Texas | I dunno Neil, has every one of the 92 cars been documented through Chrysler Historical? Until they have been, I'd want to reserve the possibility that a few left the factory with torqueflites and got converted to manual trans to meet the owner's preferences or other reasons.
Was there a revision later on to the AMA Spec sheets? There were either 3 or 4 for the '56 Chryslers and 3 as I recall for the '57 Chryslers. Are you sure you have them ALL for '57 Dodge.
If there is ONE THING I have learned in this hobby it is NEVER SAY NEVER when it comes to the possibility of what rolled off the end of the factory assembly lines. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Never-say-never; and, looking now at page 15 of the AMA Specs, it DOES indicate that an automatic trannie (3.18)
was available, along with optional ratios of 3.36 and 3.54.
OK; so an automatic (T/Flite, but not-so-identified) transmission was available in a D501 model.
Humble pie tastes lousy.
Dave I'm going home now, to re-read that MCG issue (know right where it is kept) and will dig-out the 1956 Speed Age
issue....I do recall that the article states that the auto trannie was retrofitted by Sonny Benson---but, my memory is
not what it used to be (apparently!)
Edited by d500neil 2011-06-30 5:44 PM
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Expert
Posts: 4654
| Another pic
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Attachments
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 D501 conv4.jpg (186KB - 356 downloads)
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | You can see where the firewall was masked off, below the red, and painted in black; the firewall area should be in
white, to match the main body area, but, for some reason, the 'painter' did not want to continue applying the red
all the way down the firewall....it looks like the OEM white may be visible, below the black, down low
on the firewall.
Also looks like the hinge was painted in silver instead of cad plated, and the spring should be red---there's an item
that should have some red paint on it, along with the valve covers.
The air cleaners have been seen in black, but one 501, to date, (a sedan , found in OR) had what appeared to be OEM white paint
on them (very-aged paint with aged OEM decals still on them).
No engine number, yet?
Edited by d500neil 2011-06-30 7:41 PM
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Ok; going back to the 9/91 MCG; I have the issue in front of me, with a post-em that has a telephone number on
it, for Danny Byrd in the St Louis area, that I received from having called MCG about the article.
I remember calling him, and getting basically no tangible information on Sonny Benson's, or the car's current whereabouts.
Danny was the person who provided the article's information to its writer, Randy Holden.
The article says nothing about the car's OEM trannie, so, I'm going to have to say that it was Danny who confirmed the trannie
swap to me.
In this regard, I've asked Darrell Davis to try to locate this vert (all-yellow; few options; wrong top on it ["tan"---dayuum]
in his research records.
Now, for the Speed Age article, above; it appeared in the April 57 issue...nuts...BUT, another quote from its author, that
I overlooked including, previously :" After the 1956 season, ......[which ended on 11/18/56----OVERLAPPING with the
1957 season, which began on 11/11/56!!---BTW, Kiekaefer entered two 300's in that last race, and placed 1st & 3rd, at
Wilson NC---K. did NOT enter any cars in that 1st, or in any, '57 NASCAR season race....certainly not at the Biggie:
Daytona, on 2/17/57.......Kiekaefer told this writer: 'I have had a lot of pleasure in racing and met many fine people, but
I've been lucky in not having a driver scratched or hurting anybody else.
'The cars are getting so fast that I'm not sure they're safe. Perhaps it would stretch our luck too thin to race again."....
Hmmm; not a word in the article about any equipment/carburetion disputes with B. France.
So, when did K. decide not to participate in the 1957 NASCAR season?
Some time prior to the 1st race of the 1957 season, obviously, because none of K.'s cars participated in the running
OF the 57 season, which began on 11/11/56, and his drivers had been able to secure their 57-season rides in time
for the start of the 1957 racing season, on 11/11/56.
And, K.'s car's participated in the full 1956 season, winning the 1st race, held at Hickory NC on 11/13/55.
Edited by d500neil 2011-06-30 7:59 PM
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| No engine # yet.
FYI, on 11/5/10 I asked if the D501 conv being restored will be for sale. Louie replied that it would in about 1 year. On 11/7/10 I asked him if he was restoring the original body. His reply was : " No, body was beyond repair have no part of it, it was crushed". I can forward those emails to anyone interested. I was interested in the car, but at a price based on that information. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | No "Survivor" status for that vert, huh?
Still, the VIN, P/T plate, and engine will be installed on the OEM frame, and it will appear (hopefully) as it was built and
finish-painted.
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Account Inactive by Request
Posts: 1601
| I can't follow all of this speculation and rememberances. Were there actually "factory" D501 convertibles built and does any documentation exist to verify their authenticity? Is the one being built in California a fully documented car? I'm confused...I've seen several bogus D501's which distorts my willingness to accept a statement of authenticity. This is one area where factory documentation must accompany the car!! |
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Location: Golden, CO | This is my view, The spec sheet I have indicated a Torqueflite available and even lists seperate ratios for the automatic. It is possible none were built. Was it offered or was this sheet refering to units as built is not known to me, an item that expands on transmisson and rear end ratio combinations for a D501 and so completely different from the combinations for the D500 is not just a typo. So info was gathered on the Torqueflite combo for some purpose. It may have been any one of several possibilities but information was printed at one time and may be helpfull if one surfaces and needs further confirmation. I am in the camp that wants documentation but many times exclusive phrases like "Not available this way or that" were subject to dismissal at some point. One case in point to highlight a possibility is the 56 Adventurer prototype was equipped with a manual trans but it was decided that only autos were offered to the public. So there was a 56 Desoto Adventurer with a manual trans which is now listed as lost. With the AMA sheet Neil refers to I think that makes it very likely at least one was built. Tim in Golden
Edited by Dash One 2011-07-02 12:04 PM
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Tim, I recited my mea culpa, above....the A.M.A. Specifications sheets do list the availability of the "automatic" trannie, in
standard 3.18, with optional ratios of 3.36 & 3.54.
None of the 92 D501's, whose IBM build cards Darrell Davis has previously located, on the Historical Society's microfilm rolls
had anything other than the manual trannie installed in them.
That leaves 10+ 501's whose IBM cards have eluded Mr. Davis' best efforts, to date.
Interestingly, if the 9/91 MCG magazine 501 vert was, indeed, OEM painted in yellow, Mr. Davis advises that NONE of his 23
found-verts were painted in any combination of "Sunshine Yellow" ("K" code)....so that this car may be one of the 10+ "missing"
cars.
Of course, the good news is that this car exists, somewhere, and that its VIN should become available, eventually, for IBM card
research.
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 471
Location: MN | The 3spd manual was indeed an inferior trans. The 3spd manual D501 in our town was down for trans repair 2 maybe 3 times during the summer of 59. He traded it for a black Coronet Lancer D500 in the fall for reliability.
Edited by horace 2011-07-10 12:55 AM
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| I saw Miller's D501 today that is in the middle of restoration. I'll be posting pictures of it tomorrow. Snapped a few pictures of his other stuff, which was awesome as well. Such as his 29 actual mile 57 plymouth belvedere |
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Location: somerville mass | can we get it over with and please see a genuine d501 front back side w the d501 emblem and the bone stock radio/heater delete 3 spd stick int?
it would be nice..
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Location: Seville, OH | moparsteve - 2011-07-23 5:01 PM
can we get it over with and please see a genuine d501 front back side w the d501 emblem and the bone stock radio/heater delete 3 spd stick int?
it would be nice..
http://www.flickr.com/photos/atomic_blondes/3710395878/in/set-72157... |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Back in the 'day', many wonderfully exotic, rare models got 'totalled' or generally discarded or dismantled when today,
that car, in that condition, would be considered as being an 'easy' restoration candidate.
The black 501 vert that is being re-bodied, in CA, now, was abandoned for disposal, literally, after it slid off an icy
roadway and ran into a ditch, damaging its front suspension and fender-sheet metal area.
Steve, many (the great many) of the D501's that were (eventually) built, after late MAR, 57, were outfitted with sundry
convenience options, like heaters/defrosters, tinted glass, Air Foam seats, tinted plastic sunvisors, rear window defrosters (!)
power brakes, and some may well have got power windows/seat, altho I don't know of any cars that received these latter two
options.
The only thing that any/all of the 92 IBM card-discovered-cars, to date, have in common is their manual transmissions and their
manual steering (power steering was physically not able to be installed with the manual trannie, in 1957).
Darrell Davis, a former Corp VP, is the gentleman who has produced several Performance PLY/DOD coding-books,
from his hands-on IBM card research at the Historical Society.
He has located and obtained 92 (of at least 102-built) D501 IBM cards, that he has sworn to CHS that he will
not hand out to anyone.
He has graciously been willing/able to share his cards' general information with me---like, in Re: whether any
of his convertible 501's were painted (partially-) in yellow; none were, but, again, at least 10 D501 IBM cards
have eluded him, to date.
I happen to have five D501 IBM card-copies, from the 80's/90's, when you could directly order them from CHS
for $15.00 each.
As discussed elsewhere, a TorqueFlite trannie was, technically, an option, but, any putative 501 that might surface, in the future,
will have to provide its IBM card information in order to confirm the OEM installation of an automatic trannie in that car (and, that-car
would have to 'be' one of Darrell Davis' "missing" 10 IBM cards).
There is evidence to suggest that the 3 prototype 501's that appeared at Daytona Speed Weeks did not have "501" emblems on
them---probably because those emblems had not yet been produced, as of 2/57.
The manual trannie was structurally weak; in the 1958 Fury road test, by Hot Rod magazine, the testers stated
that the 58 box and/or its gearing was a tangible improvement over the 57 gearbox.
However, at the end of their testing, they stated that they would prefer power steering and the T/Flite in the
Fury that they would want to buy.
Edited by d500neil 2011-07-23 11:38 PM
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Location: somerville mass | thank you. sweet! i'm sure super fast, rare and expensive. mostly used for racing. few, if any, for sale. |
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Expert
Posts: 4654
| Are any of you familiar with a manual trans equipped '57 Dodge? Aside from the obvious pedals, block-off push button plate, etc, were the clutch cross shafts bolted or was there a welded bracket on the frame? I'm thinking the steering column would have to be changed when converting from stick to TF . Was there a different trans crossmember? Are there any other telltale signs to look for when examining a car that now has a TF, but was supposed to be a stick from the factory? How about the D501 carb #s..different ? Thanks |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | The carbs never change (because there never was a T/Flite D501 known to have been built, and 92 of around 102-built
have been found, in the CHS records, by Darrell Davis, to date)..they are the 2534S (front) and 2535S (rear).
The distributor should be Autolite IBS-4005 .
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | This car is now scheduled to be auctioned off.
What a horrible job of 'restoration', on which the high-bidder is going to have to pay a 'premium', on top of his winning bid.
To reiterate; this car is all-white, with a black top and gold/black interior, with a manual transmission.
It has 1959 Dodge pushbuttons and note the generic brake pedal.
http://gaaclassiccars.com/index.php/auction-listings/28-1957-dodge-...
Edited by d500neil 2013-09-28 8:31 PM
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 8443
Location: Perth Australia | Hey Neil
Is it just my end or do you have to be a member to look at the pics of that car?
I only get the pic showing the whole car, no others?
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | I'll PM you the site, but I can click-on any of the small photos and get them to enlarge.
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Location: McCleary WA | d500neil - 2013-09-28 3:56 PM
This car is now scheduled to be auctioned off.
What a horrible job of 'restoration', on which the high-bidder is going to have to pay a 'premium', on top of his winning bid.
To reiterate; this car is all-white, with a black top and gold/black interior, with a manual transmission.
It has 1959 Dodge pushbuttons and note the generic brake pedal.
http://gaaclassiccars.com/index.php/auction-listings/28-1957-dodge-...
Pardon me, a newby, for jumping in here but I am trying to learn something. Are you saying this car is supposed to be white with black top, manual trans, and gold/black interior based on its VIN? Since it is advertised as a D501 and has an A/T, is it then a fake 501? I'm confused.
Also, the statement was made that a D501 did not have power steering because it had a M/T. Can you clarify why the trans rules out p/s? It seems like the two would be far enough apart to not interfere. Clutch linkage in the way? Like I said, just trying to learn this stuff. Thanks for your patience.
Sure wish I had photos of the convert I had in high school with dual quad hemi, a/t, p/s, p/b, p/w. Based on the above discussion I'm guessing it was not a D501, and may have gotten a heart transplant in the 9 years before my brief ownership. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Not based upon its VIN, but based upon its Paint/Trim data plate.
All recorded/documented D501's (92, out of 102+ built, including prototypes, by researcher Darrell Davis) have the manual trannie.
This car's IBM card has been obtained by Mr. Davis, from his Historical Society microfilm research.
The physical size of the 3-speed manual trannie obviates the installation of a power steering system.
So, the D501's can have power brakes, but with their manual transmissions comes manual steering, only.
This car has had its OEM manual trannie be replaced with a TorqueFlite automatic (complete with 1959
Dodge Pushbuttons/face plate---probably, the entire pushbutton assembly was lifted off of a 59 Dodge,
though).
Was your car a Coronet model?
It sounds like it may have been a 325 c.i. Super D500 model.
The D501's have 354 c.i. highly-modified "300B" engines.
Edited by d500neil 2013-09-29 12:01 AM
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Location: McCleary WA | d500neil - 2013-09-28 8:50 PM
The physical size of the 3-speed manual trannie obviates the installation of a power steering system.
I guess it isn't "obviate" to me - the trans is no where near the steering, is it? Or is it because of no provision for shift linkage with the p/s box? I have seen this statement before but still don't understand the relationship.
As for my convert, I only had it for less than 9 months, and was only 17 at the time. I wish I could remember more about it but that was 47 years ago. I don't recall any badge on the trunk lid or even on the fins, so I'm guessing it was a Coronet, but that loaded? I still have a lot to learn about these cars. Thanks for helping with that. |
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Location: Parts Unknown | Darryl,
Whether or not one COULD stuff a PS unit in there with a manual trans, the factory made it clear
in all their lit that if you got a manual transmission, they were not going to install power steering.
That is just how it was at the time. And speaking from experience, I never saw a stick car with PS
that wasn't modified after leaving the factory.
Now, get back to flogging yourself for ever letting this incredible car get away from you ! 
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 427
Location: McCleary WA | Doctor DeSoto - 2011-06-30 10:56 AM
I got a cold call from a guy who said he was from Yakima and had an all-white D-501
he wanted to sell.
I am spacing out on if he said it was a ragtop or not ....... but I think he said it was.
I called Neil about verifying its original build status, but never heard back from the
seller or got an answer when calling back. Neil, do you remember what I told you ?
I think he was just shopping a big buck and I wasn't ga-ga enough to "bother with".
I noticed this old post from you - my high school convert was all white, and Yakima is only 100 miles or so from me....... Any chance you have the guy's number? I keep dreaming that it is out there, waiting for me to rescue it. Yes, I flog myself daily for letting that car go, and I even had a place to store it for free. Dumb, dumb, dumb. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | The power steering gearbox conflicts with the size of the manual transmission's case, is what I've always heard.
This all-white vert was sold out of the PA area.
The 'Yakima' car was/is a red/white sedan in #4 condition, that was sold to 57 Heaven, and later has now been fairly
well restored, but the article on it, in the 9/12 Hemmings Muscle Machines is full of technical, and back-story inaccuracies.
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Location: Parts Unknown | Expecting the guy to follow through with his "I'll call you back", I did not get his number (dammit !  )
He never called back.
But this car was not a convertible.
Neil intimated that this car may have come out of the woodwork in one of his posts, but
I cannot remember the followup. Neil ?
As a semi-related "almost" find like this, I ran into a guy at the Monroe swap meet that had some
dandy Forward Look performance emblems ... Fuel Injection, D-500 ..... I asked where he got
them and he said he was unsure, as he traveled around Idaho, eastern Oregon and Washington,
picking stuff like this off the cars. This was 1990 or so.
Of course, since then, knowledge of build tags and such has increased to where even bashed old
beaters with the right tag are solid gold, but back then, no one cared and the parts were plucked
and the hulks squashed to make room for the incoming Cavaliers and Citations. 
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | It did come out of the 'woodwork', actually in Kennewick, WA.
The car and its engine were separated, but the car body was restorable.
As was typical on the D501's that were built (in order to make them attractive, and to increase their sales-costs), most
of them --like the white-vert, above--were heavily optioned.
The Kennewick 501 came with a rear window defroster and plastic sun visors(!), undercoating and power brakes.
It had a manual-tune radio, and had plain (1956-15") wheel covers but, otherwize, all the Accessory Groups' equipment
[except for non-pushbutton radio and no spinners].
Its interior was red/black, and in the Custom Coronet motif.
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Location: Parts Unknown | I am glad to hear this story "played out", as so many "goose chase" leads often went cold
and I was left scratching my head, wondering what ever happened ....
Don't the 501's make you wonder why they didn't just yank the drivetrains and make them
more conventionally equipped cars, as opposed to trying to dress up a brute ? Seems to this
observer that they would have been easier to move that way.
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | That #4 condition 'car' sold to 57 Heaven for $35K.
Dodge had already budgeted and scheduled the production of these 102+ car models....(which production number NASCAR
had previously specified, for 'stock car racing' homologation)...but, after Kiekaeffer dropped out of his NASCAR participation
for 1957, Dodge was in no hurry to build these rides.
After the 3+ prototypes were built, in JAN 57, for Daytona Speedweeks trials, Dodge waited until late MAR before beginning
to build these guys, in dribs/drabs; not in a dedicated production run, as might be assumed, over the course of three months.
Some 501's were 'awarded' to dealerships, as sales prizes/promotions, but the majority were loaded down with options, to
make them fancier and more sell-able, what with their manual steering and transmissions.
And, oh yeah: a truly rock-crusher suspension on it.
Edited by d500neil 2013-09-30 2:12 AM
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Veteran
Posts: 122
Location: Ocean Shores, WA | There's a red/white 57 Dodge Coronet Hemi D-501 convertible (advertised as one of six) coming up for auction November 7-9. Check www.gaaclassiccars.com. The auction is taking place in Greensboro, NC. What do you think? $140,000? |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Please scroll up 14 messages.
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Veteran
Posts: 122
Location: Ocean Shores, WA | Maybe part of the issue of how many of what were produced back then is based on how the numbers were gathered. If I recall, production numbers were based on the calendar year back then and not on the model year. So, in 1957, the total number of cars manufactured would not only include the cars made from January 1, but would also include the 1958 models made in late 1957. I think this is why there is difficulty in finding consistent production numbers from that era. |
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Location: Parts Unknown | Not really a car I'd want to own, but I sure would like to drive and pour myself over one (or more)
just to see such a raw beast up close and personal. 
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Posts: 4654
| I had a chance to buy it a couple of years ago. The owner wanted $175K. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | The numbers of D501's that were built were/are based upon the number of D501 engines that were cast/built,
in regards to NASCAR's stipulation that at least 100 examples be built, for homologation purposes, of any particular
'stock' car.
And I had a chance to buy the Belmont, at the B-J, for $235K, a few years ago.
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Posts: 2312
Location: Arizona | I had a chance to buy the Queen Mary but passed. |
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Location: Parts Unknown | Looks like the Queen Mary is still for sale ....
http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=49003&...
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | But, The Brooklyn Bridge is in escrow, right now.
You snooze, et cetera...
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Location: Parts Unknown | I believe that car would cover all lanes of the Brooklyn bridge ! 
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Expert
Posts: 1622
Location: Seville, OH | hemidave - 2011-06-30 3:16 PM
Another pic
So which radiator is correct? Second pic Lee Smith's 501.
 (D501 conv4.jpg)
 (D501EC1.jpg)
Attachments
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D501 conv4.jpg (186KB - 347 downloads)
D501EC1.jpg (247KB - 338 downloads)
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Location: Arizona | One has a heater and one doesn't. Maybe cars with heaters had different radiators?? |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | No; Lee couldn't find the correct radiator for his car; he later found one, but never bothered to install it.
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Posts: 4654
| Do all the large (AC) radiators have the top hose to the passenger side, while standard rads have it in the top center? |
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Posts: 2312
Location: Arizona | On a lot of the AC cars the compressor would be in the way of a passenger side top hose I'd think. |
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Posts: 1622
Location: Seville, OH | Two other minor points, the vert doesn't have the canister oil filter, and the generator belt tension brackets are different. |
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D 501
