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Expert
Posts: 1316
 
Location: Belgium, 40 miles south of Brussels | I came upon this on eBay :
http://www.ebay.com/itm/270646720978
How to install it on our cars ?
Where is the voltage regulator for the gauges on our cars ?
In the fuel gauge ?
Thanks.
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
Posts: 13045
  
Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | On your car, I really don't know Vincent.
On the 60-62 Chryslers it's integrated in the oil gauge (but then, 60-62 Chryslers , I have seen, actually has the "e-bay" voltage limiter mounted behind the speedometer (old repair?))
The cheapest thing would be to buy a triac that has a stable supply of 4,7 volts. |
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Expert
Posts: 1316
Location: Belgium, 40 miles south of Brussels | Thanks Wizard.
Does someone know where the gauge voltage regulator is located in a '58 Plymouth ?
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Veteran
Posts: 174
Location: Camptown PA | On 1960 Dodge the instrument voltage regulator is in the fuel gauge. Pull the gauge - be careful the needle is delicate - and look inside, if you see a coil of wire and contact bar, you found it. To wire the solid state regulator you disable the old regulator and follow the instructions provided with the solid state regulator. I have one in my car and it works well. |
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Expert ,, George Passed away July 28th 2021, He will be Missed
Posts: 1295
Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | I do not believe they were used until 1960.
George
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Expert
Posts: 1316
Location: Belgium, 40 miles south of Brussels | Well I had already take a look at the fuel gauge, and did not see something that ressembled a voltage regulator.
So the last comment from George is starting to make some sense ...
Were they indeed used in 1958 ?
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 915
Location: Pau, S-W France | I never saw a gauge voltage regulator on my Imperial . |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1102
Location: Hayward, Calif | Hey Guys, There was a post on this subject several months ago. I tried to go back and find it, no luck, probably wasn't doing it right. Info was covered by john in Denver, he's pretty good with electrical stuff. As I remember, the regulator wasn't used in the Ply models, of late 50's, but was used in Dodge and up cars. Seems like it was a small unit wired into the sys. I realize this info is pretty weak, but maybe someone else can go back and retrieve it. Jerry |
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Expert
Posts: 3393
Location: Chestertown, NY ( near Lake George) | I know they were used in the 60's my 64 race car had one. not with 6v cars of course. |
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
Posts: 13045
Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | First thing is that it does not looks like a voltage regulator, it looks like a part of the gauge itself. Here's a picture of the Dodge 59 one. When the voltage regulator is integrated in the gauge, it will be without any cover or casing, hence it will look like a flat spring with some thin wire winded around it.
Here are also some instructions for to mount a triac instead...
Edited by wizard 2011-12-14 12:29 AM
 (1 - Dodge59 Constant Voltage Regulator LL.jpg)
 (2 - Electronic Regulator Pin Connection LL.jpg)
 (5vregulator.gif)
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 1 - Dodge59 Constant Voltage Regulator LL.jpg (92KB - 341 downloads)
2 - Electronic Regulator Pin Connection LL.jpg (64KB - 324 downloads)
5vregulator.gif (57KB - 313 downloads)
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Expert
Posts: 1316
Location: Belgium, 40 miles south of Brussels | 59 in Calif - 2011-12-13 4:23 PM
Hey Guys, There was a post on this subject several months ago. I tried to go back and find it, no luck, probably wasn't doing it right. Info was covered by john in Denver, he's pretty good with electrical stuff. As I remember, the regulator wasn't used in the Ply models, of late 50's, but was used in Dodge and up cars. Seems like it was a small unit wired into the sys. I realize this info is pretty weak, but maybe someone else can go back and retrieve it. Jerry
OK ... It would mean that the gauges are fed with 12V on my Plymouth then.
I'll try to find that post.
Thanks.
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 466
Location: Vancouver, Washington | Here area few pics that may shed some more light
 (fuel reg1.jpg)
 (fuel reg2.jpg)
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fuel reg1.jpg (72KB - 274 downloads)
fuel reg2.jpg (91KB - 313 downloads)
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Expert
Posts: 2679
| On my 59 Dodge the CVL is mounted on the back of the temp gauge, not integrated at all.
I removed it and installed a 5 volt regulator from Radio shack, the 7805 and it works great. I have used
this on 4 cars now and for $1 you cant beat it. |
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Expert
Posts: 1316
Location: Belgium, 40 miles south of Brussels | I spoke to Greg Leggat a few days ago, and asked him about that specific question.
He told me that '58 Plymouth did not have a dedicated voltage regulator for the gauges, but that every gauge had one built in.
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Veteran
Posts: 158
Location: Ottawa, ON | Hi, I'm sorry for digging out this old thread but i figured it would be better than starting an new one.
Last weekend I tried to make the conversion that wizard and 59CRL mentioned and that is also described here: [URL]http://www.allpar.com/history/mopar/electrical2.html
first of all i disconnected the 12 V input line from the original voltage limiter in my fuel gauge. Then I built a kind of adapter that could be attached to the back of the fuel gauge and between the connector coming from the wiring harness. I used a 7805 voltage regulator, 5V positive out, max 2A and a 20µF capacitor on the input connected to ground. The 7805 is attached to a small heat sink and via this heat sink attached to ground.
The original connectors are labeled "A" (5V out to temp gauge), "I" (12V input) and "S" (to sending unit). So i connected the input pin from my 7805 to "I", the ground pin to the metal housing of the instrument cluster and the heat sink, and finally the output to "A". In a test set up this works fine, I was able to measure a rock steady 5 V on the output. But as soon as I connect either the fuel gauge or the temp gauge the voltage drops to 2-3V, if i connect both the Voltage drops to 0.5V. The regulator was slightly warm, but not hot at all. Input current stayed at 12.6V all the time. I think i ruled out a bad connection to ground. Could this drop in voltage be due to oscillation caused by a missing capacitor on the output? But neither wizards instruction nor the one from allpar mentions a cap on the output. Or could it be that my instruments draw more the 10W (5V*2A)? I highly doubt that....?
Any help would be appreciated! |
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Expert
Posts: 2312
Location: Arizona | Was your original setup with a completely separate CVR can before all the gauges or was the original CVR built into one of the gauges? If it was built in are you sure how you wired this new setup bypassed the original CVR or did you put the 7805 in series with the original CVR? |
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
Posts: 13045
Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | Less is more in this case, the original constant voltage regulator must of course be disconnected |
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Veteran
Posts: 158
Location: Ottawa, ON | I sure did disconnect the original regulator, though the current for the fuel gauge would flow through the output side of the regulator (which was a built-in type). But even when only connected to the temp gauge the voltage drops. Today I've also tested to put a 0.1µF cap on the output side of the 7805. Didn't help either. I've also measured that the temp gauge (because i have a spare one i can test it outside) draws 12.5 mA when the sending unit is cold (450 Ohms). |
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Expert
Posts: 2312
Location: Arizona | I made one of those 7805 for the 64 t-bird I had. I didn't bother with any of the capacitors but just took the guts our of the old CVR and put the 7805 chip inside. It worked fine with just the bare chip so I don't think your problem is related to the capacitors unless they are what's causing the problem. I wonder if you somehow got the connections wrong, got the legs backwards or something. The other thought is whether the metal housing of the IP is actually a good ground.. seems like it should be but.... |
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Veteran
Posts: 158
Location: Ottawa, ON | I'm going to to some measurements this evening and maybe take some pictures. This is by the way how i connected the CVR in the first try (please excuse my crude drawings):
 (vorher.png)
 (nachher.png)
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vorher.png (28KB - 251 downloads)
nachher.png (36KB - 267 downloads)
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Veteran
Posts: 158
Location: Ottawa, ON | EUREKA!
I found the culprit - it's me. Turns out I'm just incapable of properly soldering wires to the CVR without cooking it.  Funny thing is it still delivers 5V but can't deliver any current anymore.
Sorry for asking you guys, but isn't it always nice to learn from other people's mistakes? 
So if anyone is planning to do this conversion in the future, be very careful not to heat up the CVR too much. |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 8443
Location: Perth Australia | Good work
Most probably would have just let the thread disappear again
The trick with soldering electronics is to use heat sink pliers (if possible), if not, pre "tin" what your soldering, let it all rest, then solder it
A quite hot soldering iron is preferable, as you want this to all happen quickly, but without burning the solder or destroying the part
It can take a bit of practice though
Surgical clamp pliers/scissors or alligator clips work well as heat sinks
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
Posts: 13045
Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | Great that you found the problem Nicholas!
I use a small flattened out alligator clamp and it works very nice - probably the cheapest solution.... |
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Veteran
Posts: 158
Location: Ottawa, ON | Thanks for your advice, I will try it next time using a heat sink whilst soldering. |
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| I'm having the same problem with my '60 De Soto fuel gauge, does anyone know what kind of wire it is that wraps around the flat springs??
Mine is brittle and keeps breaking off, impossible to solder or work with.
Also, as to the CVR, why solder it? I just use red crimp connections on the little terminals, works great.
Edited by Resurrector 2015-12-03 9:51 PM
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image.jpeg (248KB - 262 downloads)
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 8443
Location: Perth Australia | The wire is a special resistor wire (titanium I think) and is normally covered in a fabric and is spot welded to the bi metal strip
Specialist gauge repairers should be able to repair it, but might be cheaper/easier to hunt up another one or bypass it and put an external one on somwhere
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| Thanks Mick, sounds like I don't wanna mess with that! I do have another one. |
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Temporarily suspended to cool off
Posts: 316
| I keep wondering about using that linear voltage regulator for this application. You know they lower the voltage by shunting the excess voltage at current, which means they can get hot really quickly. IE, say you had a 2 amp load on the circut, and you were dropping 12 volts to 5 volts. That is a differential of 7 volts. 7 volts x 2 amps is 14 watts of heat that needs to be dissapated. That's a lot of heat to try and get rid of in a spot with no air flow and no heat sink. FYI, I've done exactly this to make a 12volt usb charger, and it required a good deal of heat sinking to handle a 2amp load. I think the guages draw probably half that, around one amp, but that's still 7 watts to get rid of. |
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Veteran
Posts: 158
Location: Ottawa, ON | You are of course right, I calculated that I have to get rid of 9.4 W. I had to use a massive heat sink (nearly the size of a pack of cigarettes) that is invisibly stored under the dash now. |
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Temporarily suspended to cool off
Posts: 316
| You do know they make a drop in switch mode replacement right? the heat dissapation on that thing would be like .2 watts, wouldn't need a heat sink.
http://www.protostack.com/semiconductors/voltage-regulators/switchi... |
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Veteran
Posts: 158
Location: Ottawa, ON | In fact I did not know. But I do now, thanks to you. I think if during the summer my heat sink turns out to not dissipate enough heat I will use one of these. |
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Temporarily suspended to cool off
Posts: 316
| Your heatsink should be fine. I forget what the exact operational temp for those things are but it was darn near 100C! The latest generation of LM7805 regulators will take a hell of a lot of abuse. |
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| My other fuel gauge doesn't work either, does anyone know of an aftermarket gauge or a newer gauge that works with the original senders? |
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Temporarily suspended to cool off
Posts: 316
| aftermarket gauges setup for a ford sending unit kind of sorta work, and can be made to read mostly accurate. |
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| Lol, that sounds about right for fuel Gauges, Polybun. I ended up using a 70's dodge truck gauge, man are fuel gauges mysterious, cantankerous, awful things...it is accurate at full and empty, but when the sender is halfway, the gauge shows about 1/4....figure that one out!!!!! |
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Temporarily suspended to cool off
Posts: 316
| strangely enough I have the opposite problem. I have a ford gas tank and sending unit under my Phoenix. So a ford sending unit driving a mopar gauge. 1960 galaxie btw, tank fits pretty good. |
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| That's good to know, does the filler spout line up ok then? |
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Temporarily suspended to cool off
Posts: 316
| It does but you have to mount the tank about 2" further back. So you need a bit longer piece of rubber line from the pick up to the main fuel line. The stock strap locations also no longer work so you have to knock some holes in things, and the tank is more shallow so you have to shim it down about 1". This wasn't a Mod I chose to make, this is something the last owner did. With the stock strap locations already gone, and not having the correct fuel tank, and this fuel tank being in very very good condition I chose to just keep using it.
The real downside to the galaxie tank as been is that finding a fuel cap that fits exactly right has proven next to impossible! Ford used about 4 different fuel caps on that same tank and filler spout and I have the one that was only made for 1 year and nobody makes a replacement cap that fits it right! On the upside, finding a 3/8ths pickup for that tank WAS easy. I ran 3/8ths fuel line throughout the car (rather than the stock 5/16) in preperation for converting the car to fuel injection and E85.
I've got photos of how it all works out if you want to see them. |
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| That's cool Polybun, I realized now why my gauge doesn't read accurately - cheap garbage aftermarket sender! If it's one thing I've learned over the years, it's that new is not always better...you're often better off with adapting a good used OEM part. I'm going to try adapting an 80's sender, just using the resister part. |
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Expert
Posts: 1530
Location: ZH, Switzerland | I'm just puzzled why all forum users replace the stock voltage limiter with an LM7805 or similar voltage limiter (some says triac). At the tech page of the Chrysler 300 Club international I read that the original voltage limiter supplied 7.2 Volts. Because all gauges in the AstroDome have an A terminal (regulated voltage) and are thermal this makes a big difference. If the value at the tech page is true, I don't wonder why allmost all are complaining about too low readings from coolant temperature, fuel level and most probabely oil pressure as well. If you would make a 7.2V voltage limiter you need a LM317 and few resistors to adjust to 7.2Volts. Happy Restoring! Dieter
Attachments
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LM317-D.pdf (123KB - 218 downloads)
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Expert
Posts: 1530
Location: ZH, Switzerland | After a long thinking forth and back I came to the conclusion to use the LM7805 as well. The resistor of all three thermoelectric instruments is between 11.3 and 13.4 Ohms. With a minimal load resistor of 4 Ohms the current flowing to the load branches (coolant temperature, fuel level, engine oul pressure) is around 310 mA each. Good luck I have a beafy cooling surface for that case at home (originally purchased for my Beast - but for electromagnetic instruments there was never ever a CVS installed). Happy Restoring! Dieter |
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Veteran
Posts: 158
Location: Ottawa, ON | All I can tell you is that with a good heat sink and the added safety features like capacitors and a diode it still works fine with the LM7805 |
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Gauges voltage regulator
