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My 57 New Yorker
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Chaz
Posted 2013-02-05 9:02 PM (#358541 - in reply to #337191)
Subject: Re: My 57 New Yorker


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Those beauty rings make all the difference! Looks great! Especially the front .
Didja come out OK on the hood? I've still got that paint here.
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2013-02-05 9:40 PM (#358545 - in reply to #358541)
Subject: Re: My 57 New Yorker



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Never liked the Windsor-Saratoga hubcaps for 57, but the NY'er caps are very well matched to the car.

A NY'er was an EXPENSIVE car, and likely not a teeny-bopper, go-to-the-burger-joint ride (unless borrowed
from banker/lawyer Dad. More likely seen out front of The Canlis during a two martini business lunch.




(Canlis 1.jpg)



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Leadfoot1000
Posted 2018-09-23 7:43 PM (#570647 - in reply to #337191)
Subject: RE: My 57 New Yorker



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Hey Guys, it's been a while since I updated this thread. Back in January, what started as a harmonic damper replacement ended up being a (badly needed) detailing of the engine compartment, I believe it's called the snowball effect. Here's some photos of the progress.



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mikes2nd
Posted 2018-09-23 10:21 PM (#570652 - in reply to #337191)
Subject: Re: My 57 New Yorker


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Get er done! your way ahead of mine...

Trying to get it painted before winter... uhg
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-09-24 12:27 AM (#570656 - in reply to #337191)
Subject: Re: My 57 New Yorker



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Looks nice!
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60 Imp
Posted 2018-09-24 6:06 AM (#570666 - in reply to #570647)
Subject: RE: My 57 New Yorker


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Leadfoot1000 - 2018-09-24 9:43 AM

Hey Guys, it's been a while since I updated this thread. Back in January, what started as a harmonic damper replacement ended up being a (badly needed) detailing of the engine compartment, I believe it's called the snowball effect. Here's some photos of the progress.


5 years and 5 months between updates on here! Cool you are still chugging away. More pics please, and nice work on the engine bay. Steve.
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57burb
Posted 2018-09-24 10:53 AM (#570683 - in reply to #570666)
Subject: RE: My 57 New Yorker



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Very nice looking work! I'm glad you're still enjoying that car. I remember when Chaz found it (thread is on the Hamb) and the burning jealousy I had!!

Keep us posted with your progress. Every five years is just not often enough.
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billy
Posted 2018-09-26 12:55 PM (#570790 - in reply to #337191)
Subject: Re: My 57 New Yorker



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I'm jealous....Engine compartment came out really nice...great work...I'm way behind...
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Leadfoot1000
Posted 2018-10-03 2:55 PM (#571105 - in reply to #337191)
Subject: RE: My 57 New Yorker



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Thanks for the replies guys. Prior to doing this latest round of work the car was running hot, 3/4 to 7/8 towards the hot side of the gauge when driven on 90 degree + days. So during this phase I had the radiator rodded out (30% plugged according to repairman), replaced the six blade fan with a seven blade fan, added a fan shroud (from a 64 NYer, bolt on), added a fan clutch, new high flow 180 degree thermostat, new water pump, and new belts and hoses. I test drove it a few days ago in 90 degree weather, it runs great, plenty of power, no pinging, but it still runs hot, seems to be just as hot as before I started working on it, very frustrating. I don't think it's a false gauge reading because the radiator overflow spits out coolant when I shut it off, but just in case I'm going to get a temp gauge and see what the actual temp is. Next step will be to try to find a heavy duty radiator core to replace mine. I just can't think of anything else that could be causing the problem. Anybody know of a source for high efficiency radiator cores that fit these cars?

Here's a few more engine photos, including the notch I made in the spark plug wire cover to clear the master cylinder. Even with the notch I was still able to fit 8mm wires within the covers. These are the larger size covers.

Edited by Leadfoot1000 2018-10-03 2:59 PM




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Powerflite
Posted 2018-10-03 7:10 PM (#571115 - in reply to #337191)
Subject: Re: My 57 New Yorker



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You should try advancing the timing. Retarded ignition will cause the motor to run hotter. I usually advance it to the point just before where it will start to ping going up hills at low rpm. As a point of reference, I usually end up at around 10 degrees BTDC with the vacuum advance disconnected. But try out different settings to see how it reacts.

That '64 New Yorker fan shroud is a great idea!

Edited by Powerflite 2018-10-03 7:12 PM
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Leadfoot1000
Posted 2018-10-05 2:40 PM (#571176 - in reply to #571115)
Subject: Re: My 57 New Yorker



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Hey Nathan, the timing is currently advanced 5 degrees with the vacuum advance disconnected and 15 with it connected. I set it using the ping method, then backed it off for no ping, although the car was very warm when I set it, which adds to the pinging problem. I’ve ordered a radiator cap with a built in temp gauge, and an infrared sensor to check to inlet and outlet temperatures at the radiator. I also spoke to US Radiator and they said they could build a high efficiency radiator using my tanks, so that’s probably the course I’ll take.
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Leadfoot1000
Posted 2018-10-15 5:00 PM (#571747 - in reply to #337191)
Subject: Re: My 57 New Yorker



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I did some testing of the cooling system with an IR meter and with the gauge at the halfway point between hot and cold the meter showed 220 degrees at the crossover/thermostat pipe and 212 degrees at the bottom outlet of the radiator. It’s a relatively cool day today, about 70 degrees ambient. Based on this, I think the gauge is accurate (enough) and the problem is the radiator. I’ve read that a good radiator should lower the temp across it by at least 30 degrees. I contacted US Radiator and they said they can recore mine with a four row for $500-$600, existing one is a three row. With a 180 thermostat I would think a normal operating temperature would be no more than about 190-200 degrees. Does that sound about right?
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57burb
Posted 2018-10-15 6:20 PM (#571754 - in reply to #571747)
Subject: Re: My 57 New Yorker



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Man, I had a huge response typed and it got lost. Bummer.

What does the IR meter say the temps are of the upper versus lower radiator outlets? The lower hose should show a significant heat loss.
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-10-15 7:09 PM (#571756 - in reply to #337191)
Subject: RE: My 57 New Yorker



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Yes, 190F is about where you want it to be, assuming that your thermostat is working properly and set to around 180-190F.

Aluminum radiators are cheap, like around $130-$200, and will outperform a high efficiency brass radiator. I don't like the look of them, but they have recently come out with top & bottom tanks that look more like the original brass versions. If you paint it black & drill holes in it to match your core support mount, it may look surprisingly like the original brass. Also, when I have gone the re-core route with the sole purpose of retaining my original top tank, I ended up with a non-original tank because they claimed they couldn't use it. So it wasn't really worth the extra expense in the end. You can also fill the frontal area with a larger core that will help you out much more than going with a thicker one. When I had overheating issues with other cars in the past, the aluminum radiators just eliminated the problem entirely.



(26inch aluminum.jpg)



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The Adventurer
Posted 2018-10-15 8:45 PM (#571760 - in reply to #337191)
Subject: RE: My 57 New Yorker



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That's a great looking Radiator Nathan , u checked their ebay store and they done list 50s Mopar radiators , do you give them your specs and they build it , or do you have a listing for the correct radiator on ebay etc.. ?
Thanks In advance.
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Leadfoot1000
Posted 2018-10-15 9:22 PM (#571762 - in reply to #571754)
Subject: Re: My 57 New Yorker



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57burb - 2018-10-15 3:20 PM

Man, I had a huge response typed and it got lost. Bummer.

What does the IR meter say the temps are of the upper versus lower radiator outlets? The lower hose should show a significant heat loss.


The temp is only dropping about 10-15 degrees from the inlet to the outlet of the radiator. Should be a lot more than that.
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-10-15 9:24 PM (#571763 - in reply to #337191)
Subject: Re: My 57 New Yorker



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The Adventurer - 2018-10-15 5:45 PM
That's a great looking Radiator Nathan , u checked their ebay store and they done list 50s Mopar radiators , do you give them your specs and they build it , or do you have a listing for the correct radiator on ebay etc.. ?
Thanks In advance.


Just measure out the opening in your core support & the mounting hole positions to see what size core will fit. Most larger cars will take the 26" core used on later B-bodies, but you really need to measure everything out for yourself and compare it. I haven't done it yet because I haven't needed to yet. Ebay is the best place to get them and most sellers will give you the dimensions you need.

One thing for the '57 Chrysler, is you would probably need a later version than this where they swapped the positions of the inlet and outlet.

Edited by Powerflite 2018-10-15 10:29 PM
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The Adventurer
Posted 2018-10-16 6:24 AM (#571783 - in reply to #337191)
Subject: RE: My 57 New Yorker



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Thanks Nathan , much appreciated .
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Leadfoot1000
Posted 2018-10-16 11:57 AM (#571790 - in reply to #571756)
Subject: RE: My 57 New Yorker



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Powerflite - 2018-10-15 4:09 PM

Yes, 190F is about where you want it to be, assuming that your thermostat is working properly and set to around 180-190F.

Aluminum radiators are cheap, like around $130-$200, and will outperform a high efficiency brass radiator. I don't like the look of them, but they have recently come out with top & bottom tanks that look more like the original brass versions. If you paint it black & drill holes in it to match your core support mount, it may look surprisingly like the original brass. Also, when I have gone the re-core route with the sole purpose of retaining my original top tank, I ended up with a non-original tank because they claimed they couldn't use it. So it wasn't really worth the extra expense in the end. You can also fill the frontal area with a larger core that will help you out much more than going with a thicker one. When I had overheating issues with other cars in the past, the aluminum radiators just eliminated the problem entirely.


I’m not opposed to an aluminum radiator if the top tank looks similar to the original, the one in your photo looks pretty good and passable as an antique. The core support opening width is 23-1/4” so no way a 26” wide core will fit. My existing original core is 21-3/4” so an extra width of 1.5” is all that can be accommodated. I’m not sure why you think there is extra width space available to fill. If I can keep the car cool and retain an original top tank and trans cooler I don’t have any problem spending the extra bucks.

Edited by Leadfoot1000 2018-10-16 12:00 PM
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-10-16 12:24 PM (#571792 - in reply to #337191)
Subject: Re: My 57 New Yorker



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I just measured the core size on my New Yorker and it is 22" wide x 18" tall. That's much narrower than I expected. The opening is 23" wide x 19" tall, and can take up to about 25 or 26" tall total height, including the cap. The A-body and small block B-body radiators use a 22" core, but the height is typically much shorter. The best fit that I have found would be from a '62-'65 B-body. Unfortunately, the aluminum radiators I found for those didn't have good looking ribs on them, but the top tank was at least rounded instead of having the typical sharp corners. There may be other sellers that make them with better looking tanks, so a good search might find something.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/KKS-MOTORSPORTS-3-ROW-ALUMINUM-RADIATOR-62-...

A '56 Ford truck is very close to these dimensions, except maybe up to 1" overall taller. And they sell them with better looking ribs in the top and sides of the tank. The annoying thing about them though is the centrally located inlet. The '56 Chrysler used a center spout on the water pump, so you could use that to make it work, but it won't look the same.
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57burb
Posted 2018-10-16 1:09 PM (#571794 - in reply to #571762)
Subject: Re: My 57 New Yorker



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Leadfoot1000 - 2018-10-15 8:22 PM

The temp is only dropping about 10-15 degrees from the inlet to the outlet of the radiator. Should be a lot more than that.



You had it recored, right? Are there bent fins or excessive paint on them?

The fan should be pulling a huge amount of air through the radiator with a 7-blade fan plus shroud. Is it?
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Leadfoot1000
Posted 2018-10-17 12:06 AM (#571838 - in reply to #571794)
Subject: Re: My 57 New Yorker



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Nathan, that radiator you linked is a very good fit, practically a bolt in. Tough decision, because I’m trying to keep original appearances and I like the looks of the original radiator. When I had mine rodded out I had the tech remove the top tank, then I bought it home and spent several hours fixing the dents in it. I spent most of the day today looking for a replacement and the one you recommended is the best fit. I wonder what they use inside for the trans cooler, a finned tube or just a tube. The f100 rad that you referenced does look better, I wonder how it would work to relocate the inlet then patch the hole?

Danny, I had my original radiator rodded out, not recored. The fins all look good and it only has one coat of paint. The fan is moving a lot of air, but the engine is running hot even on the freeway, so I don’t think airflow is the issue.

Edited by Leadfoot1000 2018-10-17 12:09 AM
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57desoto
Posted 2018-10-17 5:12 AM (#571847 - in reply to #337191)
Subject: Re: My 57 New Yorker



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You can also add a "wetting agent" to the coolant. Several companies make it, including Royal Purple, which is what I use. Theirs is called Purple Ice. Won't solve a serious problem but it does help pull temps down just a bit.
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The Adventurer
Posted 2018-10-17 6:28 AM (#571849 - in reply to #337191)
Subject: RE: My 57 New Yorker



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If it helps I adapted/ fitted a $250 1966 C Body 26 inch Chrysler Brand new Brass radiator from spectra that I bought on ebay .

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Spectra-CU332-Complete-Radiator/36245611760...

With a mounting box bracket and some bending of the lower edge of the rad support and re drill holes in the radiator on the Left side it fitted tight but perfect and all the hoses lines up perfect . I couldn't believe it .
The top tank doesn't look right obviously , but its bigger and the car ran perfect temp even in the heat . I will try and uploap some pics.
No holes had to be drilled in the rad support at all , I sed the existing holes to munt the dual L bracket , was easy to make .


Edited by The Adventurer 2018-10-17 6:33 AM
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The Adventurer
Posted 2018-10-17 6:30 AM (#571850 - in reply to #337191)
Subject: RE: My 57 New Yorker



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Some Pics .



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Leadfoot1000
Posted 2018-10-18 12:16 AM (#571886 - in reply to #571850)
Subject: RE: My 57 New Yorker



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Hey Edward, I’ve looked into the wetting additives, but as you stated they will not correct a serious heating issue. Are you running an original radiator in your Adventurer? If yes, did you have it recored with a more efficient type of core? Thanks

Hey James, thanks for posting those photos. The radiator looks like a good fit there and maintains an old school look. I found one on Summit for $202 and free (US) shipping. I noticed there are mounting bolts on it for a shroud, are you using a shroud on it? Tomorrow I’ll do some measurements and decide which one is the best option.

Edited by Leadfoot1000 2018-10-18 12:23 AM
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The Adventurer
Posted 2018-10-18 12:45 AM (#571887 - in reply to #337191)
Subject: RE: My 57 New Yorker



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No I did not use the shroud , but as these are standard on all 65-73 c body mopars with air con they do have the mountings as you say and do run a shroud and they have no reproed them I believe . not sure if it will fit the 57 , but it might .

Good luck either way .
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57desoto
Posted 2018-10-18 5:30 AM (#571892 - in reply to #571886)
Subject: RE: My 57 New Yorker



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Leadfoot1000, my Adventurer radiator has the top and bottoms from the original, but a new core. Some NDC members may remember me in Canada a few years ago at the national convention, when the rad failed big time. I literally was bucketing water out of the lake and trying to keep it from running straight through. I ended up using a couple tubes of JB Waterweld and just packing it all into the core, essentially sealing off that entire area. I drove 6 hours back home without a radiator cap, but made it just fine. My car's motor has been overbored and there's less metal left in the block to act as a heat sink, I'm told.

In any case, I do use the Purple Ice, plus I installed a 6-blade fan instead of the standard 4. On real hot days, I slip a portable junkyard electric fan between the radiator and the front cross-strut (it's a "pusher" fan, not a "puller") and just snap it into the wiring around the voltage regulator. If I'm going to a car show, I slip it right back out.
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Leadfoot1000
Posted 2018-10-19 11:56 PM (#572017 - in reply to #571892)
Subject: RE: My 57 New Yorker



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Edward, thanks for your detailed reply, it convinced me to get the aluminum radiator that Nathan recommended. I live in an area with very hot summers. As much as I want to maintain original appearances under the hood, keeping the engine cool is infinitely more important. If I drop $600 on a recore and still run hot I’m afraid I would be inconsolable. I ordered the aluminum one for $190 and I also bought a fan shroud https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Walker-WS55A-Radiator-Fan-Shroud-Styl... that should be a great fit with that radiator. I’ll post some photos of the installation.
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Leadfoot1000
Posted 2018-10-20 12:39 AM (#572018 - in reply to #358545)
Subject: Re: My 57 New Yorker



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Doctor DeSoto - 2013-02-05 6:40 PM

Never liked the Windsor-Saratoga hubcaps for 57, but the NY'er caps are very well matched to the car.

A NY'er was an EXPENSIVE car, and likely not a teeny-bopper, go-to-the-burger-joint ride (unless borrowed
from banker/lawyer Dad. More likely seen out front of The Canlis during a two martini business lunch.


Hey Doc, it's been a while, but better late than never, right? I agree with you on the hubcaps and I sold the Saratoga caps that came with my car and bought one new yorker hubcap to experiment with. I've been planning for quite a while to modify the new yorker hubcap by adding a 15" outer ring to it to fit my wheels. I had bought a mint condition 56 new yorker cap so I could use the center emblem for my hood script. I tried to sell the remaining cap but nobody wanted to buy it so it became a donor for the outer ring. I have it fitted up and ready to "weld." I think I can solder it on there with a propane torch and some tin/silver solder and acid flux. I'll try practicing on the scrap piece left over from the donor. Here's a pic of the progress.



(IMG_3768.JPG)



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Leadfoot1000
Posted 2018-10-22 2:38 AM (#572146 - in reply to #337191)
Subject: RE: My 57 New Yorker



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So I ordered the radiator on Friday morning and was surprised to find it sitting on the porch Saturday afternoon. It really fits well. The outside measurement flange to flange matches the original and vertically the core fills up the opening in the core support. The two stamped indention's at the bottom tank are in en exact location to give clearance to the two center clips that attach an angled air deflector to to the core support, what are the odds of that? Thank's Nathan for recommending this one, it looks pretty good in there and will look better after I ultimately paint it. I'm going to put it all together and test it first, before removal and painting. There is a small interference issue at the bottom corners of the core support and I'll have to shim the radiator away from the core with a couple of washers at the two bottom bolts to get clearance. I also added a coolant recovery tank in a perfect spot next to the radiator, i had it custom configured to utilize two existing holes in the core support.



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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2018-10-22 9:06 PM (#572196 - in reply to #572018)
Subject: Re: My 57 New Yorker



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Leadfoot1000 - 2018-10-20 9:39 PM

Doctor DeSoto - 2013-02-05 6:40 PM

Never liked the Windsor-Saratoga hubcaps for 57, but the NY'er caps are very well matched to the car.

A NY'er was an EXPENSIVE car, and likely not a teeny-bopper, go-to-the-burger-joint ride (unless borrowed
from banker/lawyer Dad. More likely seen out front of The Canlis during a two martini business lunch.


Hey Doc, it's been a while, but better late than never, right? I agree with you on the hubcaps and I sold the Saratoga caps that came with my car and bought one new yorker hubcap to experiment with. I've been planning for quite a while to modify the new yorker hubcap by adding a 15" outer ring to it to fit my wheels. I had bought a mint condition 56 new yorker cap so I could use the center emblem for my hood script. I tried to sell the remaining cap but nobody wanted to buy it so it became a donor for the outer ring. I have it fitted up and ready to "weld." I think I can solder it on there with a propane torch and some tin/silver solder and acid flux. I'll try practicing on the scrap piece left over from the donor. Here's a pic of the progress.


===================================

Interesting idea. I have plexed about this problem for years as wire
wheels have gone from being an exotic period option to a contrived
"standard equipment" item on every #@! Forward Look convertible and
hardtop. Wires were always my favorite wheel, with the deep dish face,
15" stance, and formal look, but with reproductions, they are common
as dirt today, ... I want something less predictable. I toyed with how
make the set of 14" Adventurer caps work, but sold them to Mike, fo r
his Adventurer. I will probably sell the car too. But your idea seems
like a great one.

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Powerflite
Posted 2018-10-22 9:21 PM (#572198 - in reply to #337191)
Subject: Re: My 57 New Yorker



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That radiator looks pretty good in there. I may end up doing the same thing if mine gives me trouble once I start to drive it.

One problem with your plan on the hubcaps is that you will have to move the hole for the valve too, which will make it look odd. If you cover up the old hole from the backside with another piece, and cut the new hole cleanly, it could work though.
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Leadfoot1000
Posted 2018-10-26 10:50 PM (#572442 - in reply to #337191)
Subject: RE: My 57 New Yorker



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Location: Southern CA
Nathan, I did find some angled valve stems that are available that could have an additional bend added to create an offset to fit the custom sized hubcap. Of course then you could ONLY use 14" conversion caps. So maybe it will end up as a cool garage wall decoration, we'll see.

The fan shroud I referenced ordering above is too small, so I sent it back and ordered a different one. While I'm waiting on that I started working on a very nice condition steering wheel I got a few months back. I cleaned, sanded and patched a couple of small dings in it. My car's interior was originally light green with dark green cloth seat inserts and dark green/light green vinyl door panel inserts. My plan is to replace all the light green with dark green and replace all the dark green with black, cloth and vinyl. Here's a photo of original cloth I'll be using. I plan to paint the lower half of this steering wheel black and the top half metallic green like the exterior. I previously removed the dark green, dilapidated, dash pad and painted the upper dash black, i'm going the leave the lower dash with the original light green paint to at least have one original surface in the car. It has a few chips but is still pretty decent looking. I had planned to put in a black dash pad, but I like the black paint so I'll skip the pad.



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Leadfoot1000
Posted 2018-10-26 11:35 PM (#572443 - in reply to #570666)
Subject: RE: My 57 New Yorker



Veteran

Posts: 209
100100
Location: Southern CA
60 Imp - 2018-09-24 3:06 AM

Leadfoot1000 - 2018-09-24 9:43 AM

Hey Guys, it's been a while since I updated this thread. Back in January, what started as a harmonic damper replacement ended up being a (badly needed) detailing of the engine compartment, I believe it's called the snowball effect. Here's some photos of the progress.


5 years and 5 months between updates on here! Cool you are still chugging away. More pics please, and nice work on the engine bay. Steve.


Thanks Steven, I'll try to update more often, I did do a lot of work to the car during the past several years, but often get sidetracked by more demanding projects.

I scraped sanded prepped and painted all the floors, trunk, even up inside of the fins. Removed the rear side windows and painted all inside those areas, replaced a couple of the roller wheels, cleaned and lubed, reassembled. I prepped almost all the interior parts that get polished, chromed or painted. I had the radio updated to FM, USB, connection, and blue tooth and a digital display, but retains original buttons (reassigned) and original looks. I mounted a small (12 amp power max) amplifier under the dash in place of the original speaker, added two 6x9 speakers in the package tray with original grills and made custom kick panels to hide 5.5" speakers on each side, under the dash. The photos show the framing, then I used fiberglass to strengthen and finish them. The front speakers are pretty well hidden from normal view. The kick panels will be covered with black vinyl, their painted brown now because I just finished up some left over cans of brown paint to seal the wood. The stereo system has a very deep, rich tone and sounds great, but I’ve noticed that I turn it off most of the time so I can listen to the deeper, richer tone of the Hemi. I’m rying to get everything related to the interior in working order, then I'll take it to the upholstery shop. Her's some pics oof the floor after i scraped the undercoating off. I left the under coating alone on any vertical surfaces where it’s still doing it's job.

Edited by Leadfoot1000 2018-10-27 1:48 AM




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Chessie6057
Posted 2018-11-01 11:58 AM (#572749 - in reply to #337191)
Subject: Re: My 57 New Yorker



Member

Posts: 10

Location: Iowa
That is a great car! Congrats man!
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wizard
Posted 2018-11-01 2:00 PM (#572756 - in reply to #337191)
Subject: Re: My 57 New Yorker



Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+

Posts: 11633
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Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island
Keep up the good work! Compliments to your front speaker panels - creative thinking!
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Leadfoot1000
Posted 2018-11-01 11:53 PM (#572777 - in reply to #337191)
Subject: RE: My 57 New Yorker



Veteran

Posts: 209
100100
Location: Southern CA
Thanks Trent and Sven for the reply, really the main part of our hobby is restoring parts. over time, the restored parts start outnumbering the un-restored ones and the car starts taking shape. I enjoy restoring parts and making the car more and more reliable, safe, and of course, cool.

I've been fitting up an aluminum fan shroud the last few days. Considering the relatively few options available to get a highly efficient and decent looking shroud I think this one was the best choice. I've about finished fitting it. mocked up on a board to keep everything square and aligned while I take it to get tig welded.





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