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Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | This thread was started by Mo but the number got accidental mixed up.
Mo, please add your pictures and comments here for easier tracing in the future.
I bought the Hayden 2765 fan clutch on recommendation from Neil. I have seen the same fan clutch recommended on various Mopar forums .
I made a support ring, because I did not like the possibility that the fan pulley might flex somewhat. I guess that it's not necessary, but I wanted it.
Heres' my pictures
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
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Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | Here are some photos from Neils installation of the fan clutch.
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Location: cornpatch county, Southwest IOA | Wiz, is the ring you made attached to the fan clutch hub , or held in place with the bolts? Also by the pics, Neils hub had to be notched out to get the bolts in place?
I found out why you need at least a certain amount of clearance between the fan and the radiator-- gotta be able to get the belts on!.....................MO |
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
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Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | The ring is loose Mo and will be held in place by the bolts. I didn't like that the locking washers don't have full contact and that the pulley might flex.
As for Neils fan clutch, I was puzzled to - maybe the older versions wasn't jacked out and he had to do it. The new versions is jacked out for sure.
Good one Mo - I didn't think about that, would have been some surprise if I mounted a fan clutch that didn't allow the belt to be changed without demounting the clutch  |
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Location: Perth Australia | And not forgetting that the engine will move forward and back with acceleration and braking.
Not nice to have that rubbed in ring mark on the radiator fins
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Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | Here's more pictures from the installation, I used most of my cursing vocabulary before I got the bloody ring and all the bolts in position but I had use of my felt "radsaver" that I made time ago. As you can see, now there's good clearance both between the fan clutch and the fan blades.
Dukeboy earlier pointed out the better function of a fan shroud with the guided airflow will result in even better cooling.
Neil confirmed that the fan clutch and multiple blade fan works well without a fan shroud, since he has used his car over many years without one.
Hope that this will be helpful for those that have been dwelling about the idea....
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
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Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | There should be an alternative to the Hayden 2765 fan clutch and that is the TRW FC28 - from what I understand that is discontinued
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Location: Big pimpin' | Tweedle Dum Here,
Excellent write up Wiz. Been waiting for some photos like these to see what all the fuss is about with the Hayden fan clutch. This will prove wise when running a Big Block in something like an A-body (Think '64-76 Dart/Barracuda). I have seen this one mentioned on other forums, but never pics of this quality. Thanks a bunch.
One thing though....How's the clearance between the fan blades on that 7 blade fan and the lower Pulley on the crank?
Edited by dukeboy 2013-04-05 12:13 PM
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Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | Thanks' Duke - the clearance is one good inch - approximately 28-30 mm. Actually the fan I mounted is a 6 blade from a late 60 New Yorker - lest that what they told me.
The TRW FC28 should be able to take more "punishment" so I guess those would be spot on for the Big Blocks in A-bodies. Rumor says that they are discontinued, but they might be out there somewhere.... |
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Location: Houston | Well, I guess the ring makes you feel better so that's OK.
1) The cutout slots don't look very good, that's for sure
2) The cutout slots make it much easier to install and remove the fan/clutch
3) The cutouts have been used on millions of cars for decades. The chance that you will encounter a flexing issue that has not previously reared its head? Zero. |
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Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | GregCon - 2013-04-05 7:03 PM
3) The cutouts have been used on millions of cars for decades. The chance that you will encounter a flexing issue that has not previously reared its head? Zero.
Are you familiar with Murphys Law? - I am 
Thing is that the slotted disc is smaller than the original fan spacer - that was making me act against Murphy.
Most probably you are right and nothing will ever happen without the ring  |
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Location: central Illinois | If you still have access to both fan clutches, what's the depth from the mounting surface to the furthest edge, near the radiator? The shaft between the mount and the clutch looks much longer on the TRW, which is what I'm running on my 69 B body and like MO said, the fan belts will not slide between the clutch and the radiator. It's probably only 3/8" clearance on my car and I'm curious about changing to the Hayden on it too.
Nice idea with the felt radsaver too. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | On the Jag fan clutch, the OEM mounting holes needed to be notched-out, so as to allow the mounting bolts
to be inserted into the water pump.
The bronze-bushing assures a dead-nuts (as fine and tight as possible) fit onto the water pump's
extended nub, and, the clutch's mounting bolts are located near the axis of rotation, so that there
is no appreciable torque applied onto them by the spinning clutch.
No big deal, and no fan shroud needed with this protocol.
Sven's clutch has elongated mounting slots; the Jag has holes, and the lock-washers have worked
perfectly since 2006, when the clutch was installed.
Edited by d500neil 2013-04-05 8:11 PM
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Location: NorCal |
The later Mopar fan clutches are installed with no lock washers (or washers at all). Another case of righty-tighty like the lug nuts. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | ...for the reasons I mentioned; no appreciable torque is applied to the mounting bolts.
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Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | b5rt - 2013-04-05 10:50 PM
If you still have access to both fan clutches, what's the depth from the mounting surface to the furthest edge, near the radiator? The shaft between the mount and the clutch looks much longer on the TRW, which is what I'm running on my 69 B body and like MO said, the fan belts will not slide between the clutch and the radiator. It's probably only 3/8" clearance on my car and I'm curious about changing to the Hayden on it too.
Nice idea with the felt radsaver too.
It's mounted and difficult to measure - I dont have the specs for the TRW, but here are the Hayden specs http://www.haydenauto.com/upload/haydenauto/documents/cat_hayden/20...
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | ...Also, LOL...I had H. out today, and those four mounting bolts do not even turn; they statically hold the clutch to
the water pump.
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Location: cornpatch county, Southwest IOA | d500neil - 2013-04-06 5:50 PM
...Also, LOL...I had H. out today, and those four mounting bolts do not even turn; they statically hold the clutch to
the water pump.
???????
Just had a thought, Would it be easier to get the four bolts started If the fan was loose from the fan clutch, and then bolted up after the four clutch bolts are tightened? I will give that a try as soon as I select the right pulley............................MO |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Pretty sure the clutch installation was tried every-which way, but the slotting out of the mounting holes was the only practical
way to install it.
Sven, in his Hayden clutch, also had to resort to the slotting-out of the mounting holes.
It doesn't really matter if the holes are slotted out, or elongated; the bolts merely install straight into the water pump, and
the bolts do not rotate; they just sit there, happy as clams (or, head bolts, etcetcetc...)
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Location: Big pimpin' | wizard - 2013-04-05 1:51 PM
GregCon - 2013-04-05 7:03 PM
3) The cutouts have been used on millions of cars for decades. The chance that you will encounter a flexing issue that has not previously reared its head? Zero.
Are you familiar with Murphys Law? - I am
Thing is that the slotted disc is smaller than the original fan spacer - that was making me act against Murphy.
That is why I recommended a fan shroud for proper cooling Wizard. Contrary to popular belief, there are those who believe you do not need a shroud, but in my 25 years experience working on cars that continuously overheat in summer months, I have found the factory engineers didn't always get it correct, as many later cars today run shrouds for proper cooling even without A/C set ups. This is borrowing of course, things like stopped up radiators, insufficient water pumps, etc. All of these can vary a cooling systems ability to properly cool. Sure, one could jump off a 3 story building and live, but I wouldn't wanna count on it all the time.
Again, Very nice install.
Edited by dukeboy 2013-04-07 12:33 PM
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
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Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | Thanks' Duke - Once I find a fan shroud from 60 - 61 or one that fits without to much modifications then I'll mount one as well.
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | And in my 32 years of ownership and care of my car, I can state, categorically, that installing a fan shroud on any car
that is not going to incur hazardous duty, is a complete WASTE of time and money.
But, it is your time, and your money; go nutz....kind of like installing a ring around the clutch mounting bolts;
just understand that you are not solving or rectifying any known problem associated with the cooling system of
your car.
At least, you, too, can say: "Well, my car has never overheated, with a fan shroud installed on it, either."
Have you thought about painting your car white...lololol...?
Edited by d500neil 2013-04-07 3:46 PM
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Location: NorCal | d500neil - 2013-04-07 12:21 PM
And in my 32 years of ownership and care of my car, I can state, categorically, that installing a fan shroud on any car
that is not going to incur hazardous duty, is a complete WASTE of time and money.
Which merely proves that anecdotal experience is just like opinions....everybody has them and they're not necessarily relevant. Your hypothesis is based on the erroneous belief that every vehicle has a cooling system that is not on the borderline of efficiency. |
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Location: Building incorrect cars since 2000!! | Very nice install you can clearly see from the photos who takes pride in there install. I like that ring it makes for a clean installation and lets the bolts seat better IMO.
again if the fan clutch is your thing I think you have done it best and would not consider the shroud a waste of time or money.
If these cars did not require a shroud from factory why is the 4 blade mechanical fan not sufficient as well? Neil.
Edited by 60 Plymouth 2013-04-07 5:03 PM
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca |
LOL; any FWDLK'er that is truly "overheating" in its daily operation is NOT doing so, for the lack
of a radiator fan shroud...lolololol...
My own experience with the Jag fan clutch's cooling performance goes back to 2006.
Nothing hypothetical in opinion.
Some cars do benefit from having fan shrouds installed in them.
Now, if only our website trolls will have the courage start their own threads about the merits of spoilers
and air dams on our cars.
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Location: northern germany | is this really so difficult to understand? these cars were tested extensively by the factory and were sold/shipped around the globe to alaska or the sahara desert.
unaltered stock cars that didn't have a fan shroud from the factory do not need one. if a stock engine overheats its not caused by a missing shroud. adding a shroud to a STOCK car that overheats is fighting the symptoms and not the CAUSE of the problem, which is stupid. period.
my car never had a shroud and it never overheated. sure fan shrouds can improve cooling at slow speeds/idle but shrouds CAN also restrict cooling a very high speeds. for that reason my car will never get one.
Edited by 1960fury 2013-04-07 6:47 PM
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Location: northern germany | 60 Plymouth - 2013-04-07 4:53 PM
If these cars did not require a shroud from factory why is the 4 blade mechanical fan not sufficient as well? Neil.
it is but eats lots of power. |
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Location: cornpatch county, Southwest IOA | d500neil - 2013-04-06 9:44 PM
Maybe I'm not seeing the obvious in your last paragraph?? The bolts that mount the fan and the fan clutch, go into the spinning rotor of the water pump. So wouldn't that be rotating?
I am surprised that more people than Neil knew about the jag fan clutch on this website. It is common knowledge on the "Mopar B Body" website. That is why I brought it up here......................MO
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Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | MOPAR-TO-YA - 2013-04-08 8:56 AM
d500neil - 2013-04-06 9:44 PM
Maybe I'm not seeing the obvious in your last paragraph?? The bolts that mount the fan and the fan clutch, go into the spinning rotor of the water pump. So wouldn't that be rotating?
I am surprised that more people than Neil knew about the jag fan clutch on this website. It is common knowledge on the "Mopar B Body" website. That is why I brought it up here......................MO
That's correct Mo, all the bolts are rotating, driven by the waterpump pulley. The mounting 5/16 bolts both on the waterpump drive and the fan shall be tightened with a torque of 20-24 Nm (15-18 Foot pound ) approximately.
The mounting bolts on the water pump drive is very difficult to tighten with a torque wrench, so here one must estimate or make a special crowfoot key. |
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Location: Big pimpin' | 57chizler - 2013-04-07 3:57 PM
d500neil - 2013-04-07 12:21 PM
And in my 32 years of ownership and care of my car, I can state, categorically, that installing a fan shroud on any car
that is not going to incur hazardous duty, is a complete WASTE of time and money.
Which merely proves that anecdotal experience is just like opinions....everybody has them and they're not necessarily relevant. Your hypothesis is based on the erroneous belief that every vehicle has a cooling system that is not on the borderline of efficiency.
John, I have often wondered the same thing. Thanks for putting it so Plainly so as to help the others understand that obviously do not. I cannot understand why this is so hard to understand. Not only are the opposers full of BS, but are sore losers as well.
Edited by dukeboy 2013-04-08 7:19 AM
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Location: Big pimpin' | d500neil - 2013-04-07 6:10 PM
LOL; any FWDLK'er that is truly "overheating" in its daily operation is NOT doing so, for the lack
of a radiator fan shroud...lolololol...
And you base this Comment on HOW many years of experience ACTUALLY WORKING on that said F.Look cars?
I can only assume you've worked on Every single Vehicle out there with a comment like this.....YOU ASSUME every single F. looker here has a LIKE NEW radiator, LIKE NEW Water pump, LIKE NEW engine block, nice and clean, They ARE NOT. Many are BORDERLINE at best. THAT IS why I rec. a fan shroud. NOT because I wanted to get into a pissing contest between two arrogant Douches over the merits of a fan shroud. Your "Holier-than-thou" attitude has pissed off MANY here. As IF GOOGLE doesn't have ALL THE INFO you post here at a simple Click away. If ANYBODY disagrees with you, this can be expected?
How many times have we seen thread after thread about Firing up a Car that has sat for almost 25-50 years. WTF does that?? At BEST it's time for a rebuild.
But, alas, they will do it every time, then we have the threads about how people cannot believe the "smoke" coming from the valve cover/breather tube.
WTF? It sat for over 30 years, then it was fired up... What did they think was gonna happen??? Same thing here when I offer upgrades to cooling systems, driveshafts, rearends, brakes, etc. I'm not looking to wonder if the OEM is truly "Good enough", I'm trying to help these folks NOT have to make yet another thread you cannot answer regarding Why their F. Looker will NOT stop, Brakes Locking up, Engine running hot, Rear drums hard to get off, and Driveshafts that are a PITA to get parts for and rebuild. I could give two sh*ts whether they want it OEM or not. That isn't the point, the point is upgrading to PREVENT future problems. IF you would step back out of your Blinders of OEM sh*t for two seconds, you would see we are on the same page, we are just in two different books.
Edited by dukeboy 2013-04-08 7:38 AM
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
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Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | I ask you kindly but firmly not to freeze this thread friends. Run with a fan shroud, run without one - I really don't care as long as it has the correct overspray
Edited by wizard 2013-04-08 7:41 AM
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Expert 5K+
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Location: Big pimpin' | wizard - 2013-04-08 7:40 AM
I really don't care as long as it has the correct overspray ; )
See Wiz. I can laugh at what the OEM police have done to this thread.
You really should look into the Correct oversray for your Fan shroud once you get it. |
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Posts: 4589
Location: Northern New Jersey |
LOL; any FWDLK'er that is truly "overheating" in its daily operation is NOT doing so, for the lack
of a radiator fan shroud...lolololol...
And you base this Comment on HOW many years of experience ACTUALLY WORKING on that said F.Look cars?
I can only assume you've worked on Every single Vehicle out there with a comment like this.....YOU ASSUME every single F. looker here has a LIKE NEW radiator, LIKE NEW Water pump, LIKE NEW engine block, nice and clean, They ARE NOT. Many are BORDERLINE at best. THAT IS why I rec. a fan shroud. NOT because I wanted to get into a pissing contest between two arrogant Douches over the merits of a fan shroud. Your "Holier-than-thou" attitude has pissed off MANY here. As IF GOOGLE doesn't have ALL THE INFO you post here at a simple Click away. If ANYBODY disagrees with you, this can be expected?
How many times have we seen thread after thread about Firing up a Car that has sat for almost 25-50 years. WTF does that?? At BEST it's time for a rebuild.
But, alas, they will do it every time, then we have the threads about how people cannot believe the "smoke" coming from the valve cover/breather tube.
WTF? It sat for over 30 years, then it was fired up... What did they think was gonna happen??? Same thing here when I offer upgrades to cooling systems, driveshafts, rearends, brakes, etc. I'm not looking to wonder if the OEM is truly "Good enough", I'm trying to help these folks NOT have to make yet another thread you cannot answer regarding Why their F. Looker will NOT stop, Brakes Locking up, Engine running hot, Rear drums hard to get off, and Driveshafts that are a PITA to get parts for and rebuild. I could give two sh*ts whether they want it OEM or not. That isn't the point, the point is upgrading to PREVENT future problems. IF you would step back out of your Blinders of OEM sh*t for two seconds, you would see we are on the same page, we are just in two different books.
Maybe Two Different Library's.
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Location: NorCal |
Individuals on this forum who continually harp "you don't need that" have, by their own admission, cars that don't produce a lot of extra power. Take note that aftermarket radiator makers rate the radiator's suitability according to horsepower, IOW if you're making power you're making heat....more power needs more cooling.
If you have a cooling system that will hold the thermostat's setting in all conditions, you're golden, if not................... |
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Expert 5K+
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Location: Big pimpin' | 57chizler - 2013-04-08 5:30 PM
Individuals on this forum who continually harp "you don't need that" have, by their own admission, cars that don't produce a lot of extra power. Take note that aftermarket radiator makers rate the radiator's suitability according to horsepower, IOW if you're making power you're making heat....more power needs more cooling.
If you have a cooling system that will hold the thermostat's setting in all conditions, you're golden, if not...................
But you see where I'm coming from right John? I mean, ALWAYS error on the side of caution and one will NEVER have a problem. |
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Hayden 2765 Fan Clutch Installation
