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Location: Houston | Here's my 354 Hemi getting ready to go back in the car. I wanted to add AC, and I wanted to change to a Saginaw PS pump, so I made up a new front drive for the accessories. There are not many bosses on an early Hemi for mounting accessories but what I wound up with is quite rigid so I'm satisfied.
It's still in mock up stages so not all the hardware is worked out, and there is only one belt on the AC until I can get another.
AC - I like the Sanden 7176 because it is smaller and its hoses are plumbed in the center of the compressor body, not at the back. When I find a black clutch I will swap it out so the gold color will be gone. I wanted the compressor as inconspicuous as possible so it is as low and tight to the engine as I could fit it. If I was willing to ditch the mechanical fuel pump it could be lower but I plan to run the mech pump.
Crank - I made a three groove pulley of about 6.5" diameter which is larger than stock and pretty close to a BB Mopar of the late 60's.
Water pump - Stock pump...I made a two piece pulley so I can easily change diameters. I sped the pump up a little from the stock 84% underdrive, it is about 98% under right now. I did this in hopes of getting better low RPM cooling.
Alternator - I used a Powergen and made a two groove pulley that will spin the alternator fast enough at idle to get a good output (per PowerMaster's advice). I could have used the stock generator just as well....it was a good unit...but I had been having troubles with the voltage regulators so I decided just to shelve it for now. The slotted adjustment bracket is thicker than stock and I eliminated the 'jog' of the stock bracket for more stiffness. I also made the alternator 'lay down' closer to the engine than stock to get a little more compact appearance.
PS Pump - Saginaw with Chrysler style round reservoir (not the GM square can type!). I moved this down as low as possible.
Like stock brackets, I made all the brackets 'removable and replaceable' without any shimming or eyeballing to get the alignment correct. Too many aftermarket setups I see depend on the assembler to ensure they are in just the right spot when all is tightened down and I can't handle that.
I like that the belts are as compact as possible; no super-long stretches of belt. I also set it up so the water pump and PS run off the same belt, like a SB Mopar of the late 60's. This keeps the side loads on the water pump bearing low.
I made sure the two 'swing' pieces were the alternator and the PS pump. I've seen some kits that swing the AC compressor and that's not a good idea. The compressor should be solid mounted.
Edited by GregCon 2013-05-21 2:43 PM
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 front drive LR1.jpg (215KB - 188 downloads)
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Location: So. Cal | Wow Greg, looks great. Thanks for sharing! I assume that this is for your '58.
AC - Could you share a template or drawing of the bracket(s) you made there? I would like to follow along in your footsteps so to speak.
Alternator - Which one did you use here? Why did you choose it? I contacted genernator to see how much they would charge to convert my stock generator to a 60 amp alternator and it was $1000 after shipping. Ouch. These Powergens are a lot more reasonably priced. I think I would attatch a new data plate to it to make it look more like the original though.
PS Pump - Why did you change to the newer pump style? I believe the newer pump has higher pressure output and may cause problems with the box.
The only thing I don't like about your arrangement is that you are only 1 belt failure away from losing your water pump. Probably not a big deal as long as you keep an eye on that belt - that and you probably won't be putting 100k miles on this to have to worry much about it anyway. |
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Location: Houston | Thank Powerflite. If you PM me your email address I will see if I can send you some details...but be warned a lot of what I do is scratched on a scrap of paper and might not be 100% useful. Another 'ugly secret' is that the rear of the AC compressor is mounted for the sake of rigidity to a metal bracket I made and that required the WP housing to be machined by about .250" on that side.
I used the PowerGen 82051 which is a "GM" single wire unit. The guy at Powermaster said that the front plate is closest to the Mopar in terms of tapped hole placement (the hole your adjustment bracket needs to hit). The PG won't fool any Mopar guy for long that it is original but it's at least closer than a modern alternator. It's also a good bit lighter than a stock generator.
I just don't like the original style pumps, TRW or Federal or whatever they are called. The Saginaw's are supposedly quieter and easier to buy and overall a newer design. As for pressure I had not considered that so we'll see. The steering box is fresh from Firm Feel so all of the guts and seals should be as good as any other box. My 58 was 'lucky' in that it is a very late 58 build and has the 'modern' Mopar PS box, not the earlier aluminum kind. As far as I can tell it is the same as a 70 Charger or Imperial, for instance.
As for the one belt on the WP, I don't worry about that as by the late 60's all Mopars only had one belt. For that fact, all of my modern cars and trucks only have one belt for everything anyway! But you're right it would be more reliable to have 2.
Edited by GregCon 2013-05-21 3:25 PM
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Location: Netherlands | Very nicely done there.
IMO the only time 2 belts were used was if the car had airconditioning. The drag of the airco-pump necessitated a second belt it seems.
If I were to get/make an 'old style' generator myself, I would prob. get a small alternator out of a '90s Japanese car and mount that inside a stock generator housing. These small things deliver 50-75 amps and are more than enough.
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Location: So. Cal | GregCon - 2013-05-21 12:23 PM
...I just don't like the original style pumps, TRW or Federal or whatever they are called. The Saginaw's are supposedly quieter and easier to buy and overall a newer design. As for pressure I had not considered that so we'll see. The steering box is fresh from Firm Feel so all of the guts and seals should be as good as any other box. My 58 was 'lucky' in that it is a very late 58 build and has the 'modern' Mopar PS box, not the earlier aluminum kind. As far as I can tell it is the same as a 70 Charger or Imperial, for instance.
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You really are lucky. That old aluminum gear box is not fun. Sounds like your pressure should be fine with the newer box.
I am wanting to have a "period correct looking" engine bay as you have done (with exception to the A/C). However, I want to replace the 354 spitfire with a 392 hemi with aluminum heads & 2-4bbl intake. The only problem is that the aluminum heads use the 354 location for the water crossover. That makes it difficult to make it look period correct with that stupid looking custom water crossover that Hot Heads sells. So it looks like I will be trying to cut an original crossover apart to extend it, and modifying the generator mount to make it all work. What a pain, but I think it will be worth it. I was thinking of spraying the outside of the heads with texture paint to give a rough cast iron look to them and to use *something* to fill in the "hotheads" engraving on the front end. Or maybe I can get them to make me a set without it.
Edited by Powerflite 2013-05-21 6:48 PM
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Location: N.W. Fla. | From the Title I was thinking one was going into a Toronado/Eldorado or some modern POS! |
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Location: central Illinois | Mopar1 - 2013-05-21 6:03 PM
From the Title I was thinking one was going into a Toronado/Eldorado or some modern POS!
Me too. I almost didn't look just because of the title, lol. Looks great and well thought out. I can see you getting some chances to market this system. |
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Location: cornpatch county, Southwest IOA | You should market those PS brackets. I did not want to change to a Chebby water pump and then to have to move the inlet tube in the radiator. And I wanted to go to an alternator. So that left me to come up with a remote reservoir PS pump that still had to be modified. And I am still not 100% satisfied with my mounting. That darn water pump inlet tube is just plain in the way.
BTW those Saginaw PS pumps are easy to decrease the pressure in , if needed. .........................MO |
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Location: central Illinois | Here's the scoop on lowering the power steering pump pressure that MO is eluding to. http://www.moparaction.com/Tech/beep/PUMP_IT_DOWN-re-v1.4.pdf |
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Location: cornpatch county, Southwest IOA | |
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Location: Muskego, WI | Well done, I really do like how you kept the AC compressor away from the valve covers so when the hood is open it doesn't steal the spotlight from the Hemi itself. |
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Location: Central NJ | Very nice job!!! I hate the MOPAR compressor placement adn never thought of putting the alternator up high and hiding the AC compressor lower down.
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Location: N.W. Fla. | Finadk - 2013-12-15 11:34 PM
Very nice job!!! I hate the MOPAR compressor placement adn never thought of putting the alternator up high and hiding the AC compressor lower down.
I put the Alt up there on my '48 Plym, but there wasn't room for it up there on my '60 Plym because of hood clearance, both 331s. |
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Location: Houston | Thanks. I can give an update now that I have driven the car about 1000 miles including a 400 mile road trip; the front drive system has worked as intended and I have had no issues with noise or tossed belts, etc. I have yet to hook up the AC but I don't foresee any troubles.
Of course...the Saginaw pump which I bought as a reman is now leaking from the front seal, but I blame that on it being a $25 Autozone part..... |
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Walter passed away on Jul 29, 2014. We will miss you, Walt!
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Location: Heaven Above (Formerly Oklahoma City,OK) | Looks great. I wish I had seen it before I started building the mess that I have on the front of my 270 Hemi.
I ended up with the larger Sanden compressor and due to space available had to mount it on top. My ignorance regarding the availability of the smaller compressor. . . . |
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Location: Arizona | The smaller compressor has less capacity for cooling so depending on where you live you may be better off with what you have. I've never in my life had a car with "too much compressor" but then I live in Phoenix... |
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Location: Houston | The smaller compressor (7176) does have less capacity than the larger one (SD7), but it's not a big difference in output in terms of percentage.
Some thoughts:
1) I used it not only because of its better fit but I also much prefer the way the lines come out of it. They are more eye-pleasing and easier to run where you want them to go.
2) I use the same compressor in my '66 Fury and it does fine.
3) The 7176 is used in smaller cars ( I don't know which ones). If you think of a Toyota Camry or a Ford Focus, they have AC systems which still will freeze you out of the car - so you end up turning them to a low setting. In other words, the compressor is cycling on and off which tells you it has more capacity than needed anyway.
Please ignore the dinky air cleaner!
Edited by GregCon 2013-12-18 8:21 PM
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526 low res.jpg (185KB - 169 downloads)
3544 low res.jpg (181KB - 236 downloads)
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Location: Muskego, WI | Greg, I sent you a pm about your brackets for AC and alternator. |
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Front drive - Hemi
