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| I am building a 8 3/4 to install in my 1955 Dodge Royal. I have everything figured out all except the rear end I got came out of a 1962 B body and it originally had the split axels(the ones with the nut on the end). I removed these and one of to replace them with solid axle. I got a set of axels out of a 1967 B body housing and they are 2 inches too long. I was wondering if anyone could tell me if there is a correct factory axle that will interchange into that housing or if I have to go with a custom made? Thank you Mike |
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Location: N.W. Fla. | The 67-68 C Body axle is supposed to bolt into most Dodge/Plyms from 41 to the 60s. Might look for the whole thing to install. |
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Location: NorCal |
The '62-'63 B-body rear end is narrower than any flange axle rear end so you won't find a direct swap-in flange axle shaft. You can have the later flange axles shortened and re-splined but you'll have to use the Green axle bearings.
Doctor Diff may have a flange axle with Green bearings that will fit your housing, contact him.
http://www.doctordiff.com |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 9650
Location: So. Cal | Why not just put the '67 B body rear in your car? The stock width of the '55 is closest to the '68-'70 B-body rear. So even the '67 is a little too narrow. Going with the '62 would be quite a bit too narrow. Unless you are tubbing the car and moving the springs, I don't see why you would want the '62. If you don't have the '67 housing, it isn't too expensive to make up a new one - at least it is a lot cheaper than replacing/modifying the axles. And you are going to need to replace the spring perches as well to match the '55 location of 41" separation.
Edited by Powerflite 2013-07-09 7:50 PM
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Location: Michigan | You don't happen to have one of those spec lists for 55-60 do you?
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Location: So. Cal | I wish I could edit my last post because the perch dimensions for the C-body axle are wrong. The A100 Van perch width is probably 46" too, but I didn't change it because I don't know for sure. Never trust a single internet source.
So please disregard that last chart.
Most of the correct info comes from: http://www.moparts.org/Tech/Archive/axle/16.html
I have a lot of dimensions for the '55-'61 era cars, but I am missing info on the '55-'56 DeSoto/Chrysler and I don't have any info on the Imperial. If someone could fill in the missing info, I will update it for everyone's convenience.
Keep in mind that the '55-'56 differentials do not interchange with the later stuff.
Edited by Powerflite 2013-07-10 2:53 PM
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Location: Lugoff | I have a 1956 Royal with an 8 3/4 out of a 1969 B body installed. It fits great. There is only about 9/16 of an inch difference in the flange to flange measurement.
You will need to replace the spring perches. I moved mine 1 3/4 inches on each side or 3 1/2 inches total.
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Location: New Jersey | I did the same as rmc1946 in my 56 plymouth. |
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Location: Michigan | ok. Measured my 55 Chrysler Windsor. Flange to Flange it is 54.5" What is the D to D measurement? outside drum to outside drum?
Edited by Beltran 2013-10-07 8:41 PM
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Location: NorCal |
Not sure on a '55 but on the '57 and later you would add 5.25" to the housing width to get the D to D dimension. 54.5 + 5.25= 59.75 which doesn't jibe with the 61" in the chart above. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Not that it matters, necessarily, on this thread, but the "GREEN" axle bearings are only meant to be installed in
cars that drive in a straight line (i.e.: dragsters).
This subject has been discussed on other threads.
This, coincidentally, is from the 12/13 MoPar Action:
Edited by d500neil 2013-10-08 5:05 PM
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Location: So. Cal | Beltran - 2013-10-07 5:39 PM
ok. Measured my 55 Chrysler Windsor. Flange to Flange it is 54.5" What is the D to D measurement? outside drum to outside drum?
Yes, if you carefully measure the distance from outside drum to outside drum, that would make the measurements consistent. This is the most important measurement in considering rear end swaps because it determines where the wheels will sit. My 61? number was a guess because I don't have an axle to measure.
I can't vouch for some of the info there because I pulled the numbers from other sources. But I can vouch for the '56 Plymouth and '57 Chrysler measurements because I carefully measured them myself. Most people will tell you that a '57 rear has a perch-perch measurement of 46". It doesn't. It is 45.5". |
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Location: Michigan | I will get this measurement once I get the time to pull the tires off and crawl underneath the car. I have a few too many commitments in the next few weeks but I will get to it and then you can update the chart. |
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Posts: 3577
Location: Blythewood, SC | Green bearings are fine for street use, but not road course racing. Ehrenberg has been a long time opponent of green bearings, but they hold up for typical street car use as has been proven by the thousands in use.
If you want to run the adjustable bearings that's fine. But don't rule out green bearings simply because one writer at one magazine does not like them. |
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Location: NorCal |
I agree, Ehrenberg is a great asset to the Mopar community but is quite opinionated....many of his opinions have been disproven in use. |
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Location: Blythewood, SC | You mean like his fight with Mopar Action magazine regarding later A body spindles on early cars to add disc brakes? I think that one is still going on. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Yeah, the Green bearings will fit, but do ya feel lucky.....?
http://www.moparaction.com/Tech/quest1/HOW_GREEN_ARE_MY_BEARINGS.ht...
...Of course, based upon a MoPar Action Scare-Story, long ago, I was induced to find,
overhaul, and install a dual pot master cylinder in my car.
What I didn't know or realize then, was that I could get my car's OEM single-pot M/C be
similarly overhauled and bushed, etc., so that it would not leak or fail.
The dual-pot is the "bogeyman" (unless you've got disc brakes, which require one of them to be
installed), but I would be VERY afraid to install Green-bearings in any car of mine.
Edited by d500neil 2013-10-09 5:50 PM
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Location: Arizona | Just out of curiosity as I don't know what was the reason......why did people want to use the "green bearings" instead of the original tapered ones? |
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Location: cornpatch county, Southwest IOA | jimntempe - 2013-10-09 6:16 PM
Just out of curiosity as I don't know what was the reason......why did people want to use the "green bearings" instead of the original tapered ones? You don't have to adjust axle end play, which in my opinion is easy to do if you can read a shop manual. To me it is just another thing you gotta do to be " in the know"...................................MO |
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Location: New Jersey | In my case I had one 8 3/4 I put in my Volare and it was the first time I ever messed with a rear axle, bearings, etc. I took the axles to the machine shop and spent the money to have the shop press the tapered bearings onto the axle for me. All said I spent about $200 or so to replace them. Then I put the rear in the car and tried six ways from sunday to adjust the end play, I had the dial indicator, etc.. I couldn't get the play out, so I pulled them out again to find out the previous owner at some point had spun a bearing and egged out the housing, so I threw the housing out. I got another housing and it was a year different and I didn't realize my axles with the new bearings would fit. So rather than go through buying new bearings again and making two more trips to the machine shop. I bought the green bearings, put them in myself, nothing to adjust, bolt it all together and it was all done. That was 5 years ago...No issues now.
So now fast forward now and I put just recently put a used 8 3/4 in my 56 plymouth and noticed it has too much axle end play and one axle is leaking so I get to go through it all again. |
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Location: Blythewood, SC | So to prove that green bearings are unsafe, you cite a second article by the same guy that hates green bearings. That makes as much sense as using an unsafe single reservoir master cyl. And arguing that it can't leak. When the wheel cyl leaks you will understand why a dual reservoir is safer.
But then you refuse to accept that there has ever been an advancement in technology so I'm wasting time typing this.
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Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | i have green bearings in red , @ 1500 hard miles on em and no problem . seams like for every pro , someone can find an opposite . ---------------------------------------------------later |
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Location: NorCal | jimntempe - 2013-10-09 4:16 PM
Just out of curiosity as I don't know what was the reason......why did people want to use the "green bearings" instead of the original tapered ones?
Because they're lazy. |
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Location: NorCal | 57plymouth - 2013-10-09 11:16 AM
You mean like his fight with Mopar Action magazine regarding later A body spindles on early cars to add disc brakes? I think that one is still going on.
Actually, Rick advocates the use of the A-body spindles...it's the F, M, J-body spindles that he dislikes but has softened his stance in recent years from "you're gonna die" to "I don't like them".
57plymouth - 2013-10-11 8:31 PM
But then you refuse to accept that there has ever been an advancement in technology so I'm wasting time typing this.
Not everybody would agree that the Greens are an "advancement" or even an improvement over tapered bearings. One well known axle parts vendor hawks the Greens because, and I quote, "I'm tired of spending time on the phone explaining how to adjust the end play".
I am of the opinion that the only time the Greens are warranted is in disc brake conversions where end play is undesirable but am currently thinking that zero end play would be acceptable...the Timkens up front run with zero end play and survive quite well.
Bottom line, like many other products, some love 'em and some hate 'em and anecdotal experience will support that love/hate depending on your personal slant.
Edited by 57chizler 2013-10-12 5:38 PM
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Location: DFW, TX | Powerflite - 2013-07-10 1:36 PM
I have a lot of dimensions for the '55-'61 era cars, but I am missing info on the '55-'56 DeSoto/Chrysler and I don't have any info on the Imperial. If someone could fill in the missing info, I will update it for everyone's convenience.
All '57-61 non-Imperial rears will interchange? Does that include station wagons? Thank you. |
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Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | i got no problem with lazy ----------------------------------------------------------------later |
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Location: So. Cal | 57chizler - 2013-10-12 2:37 PM
....
I am of the opinion that the only time the Greens are warranted is in disc brake conversions where end play is undesirable but am currently thinking that zero end play would be acceptable...the Timkens up front run with zero end play and survive quite well.
.....
I believe that the end play is required because the axles are quite long, and as the gears heat up, it heats up the axles causing them to lengthen. So the end play allows them to expand & contract without putting too much stress on the bearings. "Green" bearings don't have this issue because they don't make contact at the center of the gears - as long as the thrust pin at the center of the differential is short enough. Personally I prefer the original tapered bearings. Adjusting the end play isn't hard, and after you do it once to get a feel for what .008" end play feels like, you can do it by feel without any extra setup. But it is true that I have seen more housings destroyed by badly adjusted tapered bearings. And while this can happen with green bearings too, it isn't likely to happen until the bearings are so bad that you would have to be a complete idiot to keep driving on them.
Also, Danny, I wouldn't expect them to have considered station wagons when they figured that out - but maybe they did. You have a wagon, so take some measurements and let us know how it compares.
Edited by Powerflite 2013-11-20 1:03 PM
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Location: NorCal | Powerflite - 2013-11-20 9:50 AM
I believe that the end play is required because the axles are quite long, and as the gears heat up, it heats up the axles causing them to lengthen.
The axle housing also heats up and expands. |
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Location: So. Cal | Yes, but at a little different rate than the axles, and there is no guarantee that they are the same temperature. |
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Posts: 1207
Location: Ponder, TX | I have Green bearings in an A-body rear end that was gathered piecemeal at a time when I couldn't find the adjuster without buying a complete rear end. It's installed in a '64 Valiant convertible that is driven very sensibly, but after less than 2,000 miles, I can hear bearing noise from one side. It's faint at this point, and will probably last for a few more years without replacement, but when it comes time to do the job I'm finding the stock parts so I can use tapered bearings. |
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Expert 5K+
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Location: So. Cal | Make sure you use good quality bearings. I bought a custom 8" Ford rear from Currie Enterprises for my '69 Toyota Corona. It came with new Chinese axle bearings that were apparently junk - either that or Currie messed them up somehow. The things made noise from the start, but it was hard to tell what was causing it. 30k miles later the bearings die. I had them replaced with US made parts and now they are quiet. |
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Location: Netherlands | I've once shortened a C-body axle housing to an A-body rearaxle size. When ordering new axles it became apparent that the housing-width dimension didn't need to 'spot on' when using Green bearings.
So to prevent myself having to possibly do extra work by recutting and rewelding the housing again I opted for the Greens.
I have been daily driving the car for just under 2 years now with the axle with NO problems... and we do have a LOT of roundabouts here I encounter every day.
Edited by BigBlockMopar 2013-11-20 4:32 PM
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Location: Alaska | I for one am going to keep my axle bearings the way Chrysler designed and built them. It only makes sense that a tapered roller bearing is stronger and better than a ball bearing. Do you want to run bearings that just barely do the job (maybe!) or use the strongest setup you can, especially since there is not that much difference in price? |
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Location: North Australia | This thread is off track (happens a bit!), but here is my contribution regarding those who persevere with the old tapered axle jobs.
I am like Alaska above, I figure the diff has worked for over 50 years, so I'll give it another go.
I am pretty sure I used Timken bearings, and I have about 600 miles on the POS (Just joking!.  ) diff, and it is going good.
Please read this old post of mine describing the problem I discovered re-building my diff if, you are rebuilding your old ún.
http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=45299&...
Steve. |
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Location: NorCal | BigBlockMopar - 2013-11-20 1:30 PM
I've once shortened a C-body axle housing to an A-body rearaxle size. When ordering new axles it became apparent that the housing-width dimension didn't need to 'spot on' when using Green bearings.
That's true in one direction only; the Greens will forgive axles that are too short but axles that are too long will exert a constant side load on the bearings and side load is one thing ball bearings aren't designed for. Of course, removing the center thrust block alleviates that issue. |
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Location: Netherlands | That's true.
I made real sure the housing wouldn't be just too short for the axles, otherwise these Green bearings would indeed be shortlived.
I could have taken a bit of the axles if needed but things turned out nicely for my first axle-narrowing.
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Location: Houston | Yeah...Ehrenberg tends to operate from a bully pulpit but there are lots of times he is wrong.
As for on guy running 1500 miles on a set of Green bearings....that's hardly proof of anything. A stock Mopar tapered bearing will routinely run 200,000 miles and that's been proven millions of times over.
Green bearings were an invention foisted upon the Mopar world by Chevy guys who felt obligated to apply some of their magic. Children at play in the fields of the Lord, if you will.
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Location: Building incorrect cars since 2000!! | I swapped a E-body rear into my 59 dodge and retained all stock bearings on that rear. (replaced them with new ones of course) Seemed like a direct fit to me and from the chart looks very close Right?? |
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | I just bought another seal as well. It's a pinion shaft seal - SKF part # 21336 for my 1956 NY.
At this video at the time 5:43 you could hear a bang when I released the throttle.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOulqpQ1GHs&list=UUUonylzAfXNHCbHNbX...
It's from the differential. Earlier on - prior to mount the painted drive shaft - I noticed that there is lash (axial) instead of preload at the pinion shaft. I checked the nut. It's tightened to the factory specification.
But to be honest - I really don't know if it's worth to restore or not. What are the options?
Happy Motoring!
Dieter
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Elite Veteran,, James Passed away March 2021, He will be Missed
Posts: 1028
Location: Melbourne, Australia | 65-68 C Body Rear ends bolt straight in late 50s Mopars . The perches are the correct spot as is the width of the diff housing .
If you use the 741 Casing type they use the smaller 7260 flange which is the same as stock late 50s cars . The pigs head is the same length also , so no need to modify your tailshaft .
Only thing different is where the brake hose mounts up has to be changed . But that is trivial
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Location: Wales, Wisconsin | The Adventurer - 2014-08-13 6:27 AM
65-68 C Body Rear ends bolt straight in late 50s Mopars . The perches are the correct spot as is the width of the diff housing .
If you use the 741 Casing type they use the smaller 7260 flange which is the same as stock late 50s cars . The pigs head is the same length also , so no need to modify your tailshaft .
Only thing different is where the brake hose mounts up has to be changed . But that is trivial
I assume by late 50's you mean 57 and newer. I do not believe that they will work in 1955-56 Mopars as the original poster asked.
I have an 8 3/4 from a 67 Satellite in my 55 Belvedere and it fits great. |
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Posts: 1506
Location: Colo Spgs | Hola Yo'll
If a Dakota Rear Axle bolts to a after WWII MoPar with out any mod's --- will it also bolt to his car ???
Rodger & Gabby
COS |
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Location: So. Cal | '55-'56 Chryslers axles are not the same as '57-'61. I believe your spring perches are set at 41" apart like the '55-'56 Dodge/Plymouth. Not 46" like '57-up.
I also believe that the '56 Chrysler/DeSoto used an 8 3/4 axle, but not exactly the same as the '57-up units. Check the bolt pattern and see if a newer gear set will bolt into your axle. I tend to doubt that it will, but it is worth a check. If it doesn't, measure the width drum-drum (the flat portion where the wheels mount to) and find an appropriate donor. Then post your measurements here because I don't have a lot of info on '55-'56 Chrysler/DeSoto axle dimensions.
Edit: To be able to swap in a newer gear, you will need to check axle splines too. And newer gearsets use u-joints so you would need to make a new drive-shaft for it because I believe your car has a ball & trunion at the gears.
If your gears are still good, you may be able to get a good shop to rebuild your original if you prefer to go that route. I really don't know about the availability of parts for it though.
Edited by Powerflite 2014-08-13 2:53 PM
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Big thank you for your answers. Yesterday night I just was looking at the Internet (Allpar.com) to find a solution. The rear tread of a 1956 Chrysler New Yorker is 59.6" and I found the result of a 1970 Coronet rear tread: 59.7".
I'm happy with the B/T, but I want to get rid of the u-joints with ears. It's very, very difficult to get an axle here in Switzerland, because there were only a very few cars imported in the 60ies and 70ies of the last century. The ratio of the actual rear axle is 3.36 (stock gearing). I would get a ratio that's quite close. To find a shop to modify the drive shaft is possible. I brought both drive shafts of my truck I owned until September 12 to a shop few years ago to restore and balance. If I'll get a real 8 3/4" axle - I'll ask that shop to modify the existing drive shaft.
So I'm gently asking for a 8.75" rear axle. Thank you very much.
Happy Motoring!
Dieter
Edited by di_ch_NY56 2014-08-13 3:59 PM
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Yes, Dieter, with your 2-speed Powerflite transmission, you do need a rear axle ratio of about 3.36:1, because that trannie is essentially
the same as the Torqueflite, but without the first gear ratio.
The P/flite's higher stall speed, than the T/Flite, and its 3.36 will get your car moving.
If you want to do something really nice for your car, this winter, you can send-out its distributor and its vacuum advance for a re-curving; you'll
realize better performance and MPG as a result.
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Elite Veteran,, James Passed away March 2021, He will be Missed
Posts: 1028
Location: Melbourne, Australia | Yes I meant 57 and up Mopar (maybe not imperial though ?)you can use 65-68 C body diffs |
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | Thanks a lot for all answers. I just looked around all I found was an essay in the hemmings.
http://www.hemmings.com/mus/stories/2004/10/01/hmn_feature21.html
It seems - according to an earlier entry of this thread - that a 1967 Satellite rear end would fit under a 55 Belvedere. But I don't know how much smaller the D-D measurement is than in a 55/56 Chrysler Windsor/New Yorker. I assume it's no problem to find a shop to move the spring perches. But I don't want to shorten the axle shafts.
Are there any repro 8 3/4 axles for 65-68 C-Bodies?
About the bolt pattern - as long as I remember the wheels have a 5 * 4.5" pattern. Imperials had a 5 * 5.5" pattern.
http://chrysler300country.com/motor_rim_wheels.htm
To Neil: thank you very much for your idea. With the consumption of my Chrysler I don't have an issue. The mpg is around 13.8 to 14.
Happy Motoring!
Dieter |
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Location: NorCal | di_ch_NY56 - 2014-08-14 12:12 PM
It seems - according to an earlier entry of this thread - that a 1967 Satellite rear end would fit under a 55 Belvedere.
It will "fit" as far as overall width is concerned but the spring pads need to be moved; the '55 has 41" spring centers and the '65-'70 B-body is 44".
I have a '65-'67 B-body rear with perches relocated in my '56 Plymouth.
Edited by 57chizler 2014-08-14 3:42 PM
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Location: ZH, Switzerland | 57chizler - 2014-08-13 9:41 PM
di_ch_NY56 - 2014-08-14 12:12 PM
It seems - according to an earlier entry of this thread - that a 1967 Satellite rear end would fit under a 55 Belvedere.
It will "fit" as far as overall width is concerned but the spring pads need to be moved; the '55 has 41" spring centers and the '65-'70 B-body is 44".
I have a '65-'67 B-body rear with perches relocated in my '56 Plymouth.
For me the overall witdth is very important (little bit wider is no problem, but not narrower). I guess in most cases a relocating of the spring perches are necessary to fit a 57 above rear axle assembly under a 55/56 FLK car.
Thank you very much.
Dieter |
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Expert 5K+
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Location: So. Cal | If the width is important, get a '68-'70 B-body rear. That is the closest to the '56 and is a little wider than the '65-'67 B-body rear. I put one of them under my '56 Plymouth.
One thing though. You will want to cut your original spring perches off and weld them to the new axle because the springs are splay mounted (at an angle). If you attempt to use newer spring perches, they are too wide to work well with the splayed springs. Your lower shock mount is also located on the perches so this will enable you to keep the shock in the stock location and reuse your original U-bolt plates. |
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8 3/4 ?
