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Elite Veteran,, James Passed away March 2021, He will be Missed
Posts: 1028
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia | Hi Guys , could anyone help me decode this Fender Tag on my 58 Desoto ? Thanks in advance
 (022 - Copy.JPG)
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 022 - Copy.JPG (236KB - 168 downloads)
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Elite Veteran,, James Passed away March 2021, He will be Missed
Posts: 1028
Location: Melbourne, Australia | Surely someone must know how to decode this tag , they cant be that hard surely ?
I know the colour code is Spanish Gold with white roof and sweep , but the rest I don't know . |
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Location: Parts Unknown | I am real rusty with these, but under BDY, 4 = DeSoto, 3 = Firedome, and 2 = 2HT.
The four letters under PNT seem "wrong" and there should be only three ???? ... one
letter for each of the paint "zones", roof, main body color, and color sweep.
I am scratching my head trying to remember more, but don't want to tell you something
and later realize I was thinking of something else.
The way these worked was that items not standard on a given model would theoretically
get a number/letter stamp to indicate added equipment. The heater is the best example.
"AH" indicates "air/heat", and there were several options from a standard heater to air
conditioning that were designated by different numbers under the "AH" heading. If an item
was standard equipment to a given model, it would not get a stamp for that item, but for
a lesser model that it was optional on, the stamp would show up (theoretically).
However, the data tags were often not very accurate for what a car was equipped with.
Getting the build sheet from CHS is the best way to determine all the details.
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Elite Veteran,, James Passed away March 2021, He will be Missed
Posts: 1028
Location: Melbourne, Australia | Thanks Doc , that actually helps quite a bit . And yes I was confused by the 4 digit paint code , but its quite obvious its a white rood & sweep car , and the main body Spanish Gold .
So yeah I will get the build card from Chrysler next month when they are back open again .
I found my trim code number 633 which is the brown cloth , as used on the SMS website , check this link
http://www.smsautofabrics.com/results.php?make=DeSoto&year=1958&qu[... |
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Location: Parts Unknown | I have all the interior codes in my books, but don't remember any off the top of my head.
The codes I struggled to figure out were the non-obvious ones like build date or unusual
options.
The three number SCH code is your build date. Or at least SCHEDULED build date. This was
often a four digit code on other cars/years, indicating day and month, so 1204 would indicate
the 12th of April. However, as best as I can figure (open to brilliantly good ideas here), in 58
they went to a three digit code indicating which day of production in a numbered run (theoretically)
from 001 to 365. However, it seems to me, that if this was the case, the randomness of the numbers
indicates that we need to know the actual first day of production, AND then subtract every day
the line was not in operation .... i.e. weekends, holidays, and a number of days the PPG glass
shortage shut the line down in 1958.
If memory serves, I gave up on this conundrum before I ever really figured it out. But of
the few cars I had data plates AND build info from CHS for, the three digit code was not adding
up to a neat system that could easily be figured out with the plates alone. 
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Location: Parts Unknown | I have a Holly Red/white Fireflite coupe tag set here at hand. I will give it a look over and
see if any more of this code stuff comes back to me.
As I recall, in the BDY code, the second number is "5" for Fireflite, and "9" for Adventurer.
The third number is "5" for convertible.
I will double check this when I go look at the red car's tag.
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Expert
Posts: 1819
Location: Vancouver, BC | AG - Accessory Group - 312
Do not know what DeSoto's accessory groups included.
PB - Power Brakes - 302
AH - Air Conditioning / Heater - no entry - No heater or A/C, or it could be included in AG 312
CS - Colour sweep - 2
Edited by Chrycoman 2014-04-25 10:29 AM
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | The A/C would always be an optional item (unless its some IMP LeBaron...), so, a heater should be included with the Accessory Group
312, or else, you'd have a '5' (the seemingly universal code for a heater) stamped under the AH code.
Heaters were not standard equipment items, except on the Big Dog models.
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Elite Veteran,, James Passed away March 2021, He will be Missed
Posts: 1028
Location: Melbourne, Australia | Thanks Guys for all your help , its all starting to make a bit more sense now . I found on that 57 Desoto site some interesting info that might be close to how 58s were doneor use as a guide) .
So then as you say the
SCH is "049" and would be the 49th day of the year ?
The SEQ Is the sequence number for cars produced on the line for that day maybe ? As later Mopars like my 66 and 68 300s use the sequence numbers is a 6 digit code starting at like 100001 onwards for the number produced of that model from start to finish of the whole year .432 is Desoto Firedome 2 door hardtop as you have said Doc
XXUX Means White Top , Spanish Gold body and White Sweep as you have said (the extra x is a mystery still ?)
633 is the Grey /Brown Vinyl /Cloth Trim
The AG code of 2 would mean the car possibly has all the below options as well as the radio , which the car seems to have . (reference from the 57 desoto site )
" For the FIREDOME, AG #1 included: •heater
•white sidewall tires
•dual exhaust
•ash tray light
•trunk light
•clock
•windshield washer
•hand brake signal
•outside rear view mirror
•prismatic mirror
•vanity mirror
•airfoam cushion rear
For the FIREDOME, AG #2 included:
•all group 1 items PLUS
•radio (less searchfinder)
Power brakes 2 is correct as it has them
So mystery solved and all adds pretty much . The car has its original Engine and Radiator , so I think I have been pretty lucky getting this car even if its not a fireflite !
Thanks again Guys , I really appreciate all your input , especially yours Doc .
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | It was fairly typical for the 'first' option group not to have a radio in it, but that the second group be identical to it, but with the inclusion
of a radio in that group.
One factoid, that probably extended across the 1957 MoPar lineage was the optional availability of the Signal-Seeking radio.
When a car got this (rare-) option, it received only the 'first' ("no" radio) accessory group code-stamping on its P/T plate.....which can be very
confusing to researchers.....but, its Sig-Seeker's existence is separately confirmed (as is the HiWay Hi-Fi) only on its Broadcast Sheet(s)
and on its IBM Build card.
Also, for the Dodges, if your car only had the BASE model manual-tuning radio in it, it, too, got that "no" radio accessory group
option stamping, and with the manual-tune radio being listed separately on the B-Sheet and IBM card.
Edited by d500neil 2014-04-27 1:51 AM
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Elite Veteran,, James Passed away March 2021, He will be Missed
Posts: 1028
Location: Melbourne, Australia | Ah interesting stuff , thanks for your help there Neil . |
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Location: Parts Unknown | SCH 019
SEQ 239
BDY 452 4=DeSoto/5=Fireflite/2=2HT
ST Blank
PNT XPX X= Arctic White/P=Holly Red
TRM 646 Trim Interior (grey)
TR Blank (convertible top color ?)
AG Blank Accessories Group
GG Blank
PS 3 Power Seat
PB 2 Power Brakes
AH 5 Air / Heat
PW 4 Power Windows
RM Blank (??)
SS 1 Solex Sunshade
UC Blank Undercoating
SPL Blank (Special)
CS Blank (??)
BG 6 (??)
A Blank (??)
B Blank (??)
C Blank (??)
Been away from this long enough that I've forgotten a few of the codes groups. Feel free to correct
or fill in the blanks.
This car came out of Alberta and was equipped with PS, PB, PW, PB, standard heater, paint was Holly Red
with white top and sweep, interior was grey with cloth interior. If memory serves, the car had clear glass
(note "1" code under SS) and no undercoating, but I could be mistaken.
 (data tag holly red:white.jpg)
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data tag holly red:white.jpg (48KB - 153 downloads)
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Expert
Posts: 1819
Location: Vancouver, BC |
TR is Transmission and is blank as Torqueflite was standard on the Fireflite.
GG - Glamour Group ?
SS - Stone Shields
BG - Bumper Guards
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Ah-5 is for a Heater/Defroster.
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Elite Veteran,, James Passed away March 2021, He will be Missed
Posts: 1028
Location: Melbourne, Australia | Thanks for posting that Doc . I am still surprised that so little is known about these tags .
Edited by The Adventurer 2014-05-05 6:39 PM
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Location: Parts Unknown | Chrycoman - 2014-05-05 10:44 PM
TR is Transmission and is blank as Torqueflite was standard on the Fireflite.
GG - Glamour Group ?
SS - Stone Shields
BG - Bumper Guards
===================================
Thanks. I knew all this stuff 20 years ago, but some has slipped my mind ....
How was convertible top color designated ? I thought I saw on this site at one time where
this was shown on a data tag ? Am I losing it ? 
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Veteran
Posts: 118
Location: Nawth Kerolinuh | Here's my take on it comparing my tag and equipment to original pricing sheets and the terms they use to price and build the car...
SCH - 032
I believe that it's the scheduled date of production. Mine was 10/31/57 so that should be around the 32nd day of production.
SEQ - 213
Not sure how to interpret the sequence, but I agree it's probably the number built on that day.
BDY - 435 Which matches up to a Firedome convertible. I have a pricing sheet that gives the 3 digit body type code for all the DeSoto models.
ST - Mine has a 1. I figured it might be stone guards, since mine has them and they are not part of the accessory group for the Firedome.
PNT - paint
TRIM - interior code
TR - Mine has a 3, which could mean top color. I think it was originally black, but it was white when I got the car so I'm not sure.
AG - Accessories Group. Mine has a 1, which on a Firedome includes Heater w/ fresh air vent, windshield washer, electric clock, rear airfoam cushion.
That also includes the Basic Group which features the ash tray light, trunk light, vanity mirror, hand brake light, left outside mirror, prismatic mirror and license plate frame.
GG - Glamour Group
PS - Power Seat
PB - Power Brakes - mine has a 2
AH - Air/Heat
PW- Power Windows
RM - Roof Moulding
SS - Solex glass with shaded windshield. Mine has a 1
UC - undercoating, mine has a 1 with factory undercoat.
SPL - special
BG - Basic Group - mine has a 6. The car has the Basic Group as part of the Accessory Group 1, but group 6 in a Firedome falls under the Glamour Group, which includes wheel covers, bumper guards package, fender ornaments and on a hardtop you would get a roof moulding package.
A - blank on mine
B - also blank
C - 2 which adds accessory group 2 including the standard radio, padded instrument panel, special steering wheel and dual exhaust.
That's the way I figured it, matching up the terminology used in the ordering data sheets with the abbreviations and the equipment I knew was on the car. |
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Elite Veteran,, James Passed away March 2021, He will be Missed
Posts: 1028
Location: Melbourne, Australia | Thanks for that , more great info . Thanks guys |
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Location: Parts Unknown | BSoto - 2014-05-09 5:40 PM Here's my take on it comparing my tag and equipment to original pricing sheets and the terms they use to price and build the car... SCH - 032 I believe that it's the scheduled date of production. Mine was 10/31/57 so that should be around the 32nd day of production. As near as I can figure, the 58 schedule date is just as you state .... in a sequential order of days the production line was in operation. As it was disrupted by the PPG strike and slow sales, days were not consecutive, skewing exactly which days are what, without knowing what those actual production days were. I will have alook at the tag on my convertible, as I know the build date to be 06 Jan. 1958, to give another comparison number vs. known date.
SEQ - 213
Not sure how to interpret the sequence, but I agree it's probably the number built on that day.
BDY - 435 Which matches up to a Firedome convertible. I have a pricing sheet that gives the 3 digit body type code for all the DeSoto models.
4 = DeSoto, 3 = Firedome, 5 = convertible
ST - Mine has a 1. I figured it might be stone guards, since mine has them and they are not part of the accessory group for the Firedome.
PNT - paint
TRIM - interior code
TR - Mine has a 3, which could mean top color. I think it was originally black, but it was white when I got the car so I'm not sure.
Bill notes above that TR means "transmission", so I guess "3" on a Firedome would be the optional Torqueflite (assuming your car has a Torqueflite) ?
AG - Accessories Group. Mine has a 1, which on a Firedome includes Heater w/ fresh air vent, windshield washer, electric clock, rear airfoam cushion.
That also includes the Basic Group which features the ash tray light, trunk light, vanity mirror, hand brake light, left outside mirror, prismatic mirror and license plate frame.
GG - Glamour Group
PS - Power Seat
PB - Power Brakes - mine has a 2
AH - Air/Heat
PW- Power Windows
RM - Roof Moulding
SS - Solex glass with shaded windshield. Mine has a 1
UC - undercoating, mine has a 1 with factory undercoat.
SPL - special
BG - Basic Group - mine has a 6. The car has the Basic Group as part of the Accessory Group 1, but group 6 in a Firedome falls under the Glamour Group, which includes wheel covers, bumper guards package, fender ornaments and on a hardtop you would get a roof moulding package.
A - blank on mine
B - also blank
C - 2 which adds accessory group 2 including the standard radio, padded instrument panel, special steering wheel and dual exhaust.
That's the way I figured it, matching up the terminology used in the ordering data sheets with the abbreviations and the equipment I knew was on the car.
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Expert
Posts: 1819
Location: Vancouver, BC | Doctor DeSoto - 2014-05-05 11:31 AM
Thanks. I knew all this stuff 20 years ago, but some has slipped my mind ....
How was convertible top color designated ? I thought I saw on this site at one time where
this was shown on a data tag ? Am I losing it ?
I believe ST is for the convertible top.
Colours were -
1 - Black
2 - White
3 - Blue
4 - Green
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Location: Parts Unknown | I have been scratching my head with deja vu on this subject ... and we HAVE been down this road
before ! There is an extensive thread on 58 DeSoto tag codes buried in the archives.
I pulled a pic off it of my convertible's tag.
I see it was built in the 59th production day, which reality bears out to be Monday, 06 January, 1958,
per the CHS build record.
Sequence number 117. Is that the 117th Fireflite convertible of 474 made ? .... or is it the 117th
vehicle built on the 59th scheduled build date ? ... or something else ?
BDY code 455 4 = DeSoto, 5 = Fireflite, 5 = convertible
ST (convertible top color ?) shows no entry. Hmmmm .....
AG 2 Not sure what the accessories group 2 would be for Fireflite, but notable accessories included
triad horn, seeker radio, dual mirrors, dual antennas. As I see BG (bumper guards) is noted as "6",
this likely falls outside the AG 2 group.
BG 6
UC 1
The only other stamp is under "C" with a "2".
 (Fireflite cv data tag.jpg)
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Fireflite cv data tag.jpg (10KB - 192 downloads)
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Veteran
Posts: 118
Location: Nawth Kerolinuh | Doc -- for the Fireflite, Accessory Group 2 means you get Radio-Electrotouch Tuner, Dual Antenna, Triad Horn along with Accessory Group 1, which has Heater-Fresh Air, Windshield Washer, Electric Clock, Radio (which in your cases is superseded by the better radio in AG2), Padded Instrument Panel, Dual Exhaust, Rear Seat Speaker (not in a convertible) Stone Shields, and the Basic Group. The Basic Group has the Vanity Mirror, Outside Mirror - Left, Prismatic Mirror and License Plate Frame.
So the AG2 includes all those things. Yours is also an undercoat car (UC).
The BG 6, I feel means its got Group 6, which I have listed under Glamour Group, but mine has the same number in the same spot. Group 6 (GG) includes wheel covers, fender ornaments and the bumper guard package. On a hardtop it would also include the roof moulding package. But that would mean the front bumper bullets, the side trim pieces on the rear, plus the fender tops.
As for my car, with the 3 under TR, yes it has the Torqueflite. Yours doesn't because it was standard, right? |
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Location: Parts Unknown | Well, Fireflite would come standard with wheelcovers, and fender ornaments, and I believe
bumper guards as well (?), so a BG 6 marking is kind of confusing in this application.
I was under the impression that Torqueflite was an extra cost item across the board, even if
considered "standard equipment" on some models. Bill is saying that TF was standard on Fireflite,
and I've never seen a Fireflite between 57 and 59 with anything but a TF, ... but I don't remember
seeing a definitive document stating exactly how that worked out.
Good intel on your "groups". THAT is the tough stuff to pin down. 
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Expert
Posts: 1819
Location: Vancouver, BC |
When an item is "standard equipment" it is generally included in the base price.
In 1958 a DeSoto Firedone 4 door hardtop had a base price of $3,235 while the same model of Fireflite went for $3,731. That extra $496 included such "standard" Fireflite equipment as more exterior trim, slightly fancier upholstery, a 4-bbl carb, and Torqueflite. Reminds me of the times a new car owner brags to his neighbour about all the extra equipment that came "standard" on his new car that was optional on the neighbour's, oblivious to the fact that all that "standard" equipment was the reason his new car was hundreds of dollars more than the neighbour's car.
Mandatory options are kind of neat. If you buy option A you must also buy option B. Chrysler used to do that with their performance engines - you bought the 400hp V8, you also had to buy the larger brakes or disc brakes, beefier springs, etc.
The 1930's had the best mandatory options. A 1932 Studebaker Six Business Coupe sold for $1,175 at the factory in Windsor, Ontario. The small print read "Bumpers, spare tires and Government taxes extra". But just try buying your new Studebaker without those bumpers, spare tires or Government taxes!
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Location: Parts Unknown | Bill,
Any idea why the tag at the top of this thread would have FOUR letters under the paint code ?
I have never seen such a thing before and understood the whole code "system" to work as a
three-zone coding for roof, body, sweep.
What do we have here ?
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Elite Veteran,, James Passed away March 2021, He will be Missed
Posts: 1028
Location: Melbourne, Australia | The extra colour stamping has to be a mistype on the Fender tag surely Doc . I will have the car here in 4-5 weeks , so I will look at it closer , but there cant be another explanation surely ? |
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Location: Parts Unknown | That would be my first guess too, ...... but I have learned that just when you think you
have it all figured out, someone comes up with new intel to show you have it all wrong !
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Elite Veteran,, James Passed away March 2021, He will be Missed
Posts: 1028
Location: Melbourne, Australia | Would be interesting to know if anyone else has a four digit code .
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Expert
Posts: 1488
Location: New Castle PA | BSoto, sorry I didn't reply to this earlier, but since it's for a '58 (not a '57 which is my specialty) I didn't read it. Chrycoman is correct in that BG is BUMPER GUARDS and SS is STONE SHIELDS, not Basic Group and Solex Glass as you surmise. My 1957 site has most of these figured out for the 1957 models. I'm guessing the MEANING on the letters is the same, but the numbers stamped onto it for 1958 may be different (for example, the 6 under your bumper guards). http://www.angelfire.com/de/petrus/index.html |
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Elite Veteran,, James Passed away March 2021, He will be Missed
Posts: 1028
Location: Melbourne, Australia | Thanks Ed , that is handy for all of us . I got my Chrysler historic info on both of my 58 Desotos the other day and it all adds up and is very interesting . |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | If the DeSotos are anything like the Dodges, there will be almost no correlation between the codings of the various model years, and
merely knowing one year's codings (on the P/T plates and/or on the factory's paperwork) would be of no significant benefit toward the
decyphering of another year's codings.
Gotta research each year, individually, and extensively.
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Elite Veteran,, James Passed away March 2021, He will be Missed
Posts: 1028
Location: Melbourne, Australia | I got the Chrysler historic stuff for my car along with the dealer code break downs of options , groups and accessories etc if anyone wants to know anything .
Edited by The Adventurer 2014-07-26 8:28 PM
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58 Desoto Fender Tag Decode
