|
|
Expert
Posts: 1737
   
Location: Hay Lakes, Alberta, Canada | Hi All,
I just HAD to post this! 
Background: I sent a note to a fellow, regarding a 1957 Chrysler booklet, and we got into a conversation regarding the poor quality of the 1957 Chrysler cars. Now, I know they had issues, as I can attest to. But, he lived them at the time, and here's what he wrote:
I was the 17 year old service manager in 1957 in my Fathers Dodge-DeSoto dealership. I remember broken torsion bars, valve jobs on 6 cyl. Models at 1500 miles, building drain troughts in the rear quarters with tin to try to drain water from the trunk to the ground, removing windshields and welding a band across the top to make the whole smaller to try to stop leaks, replacing mildew carpet and underlay constantly and Chrysler would not pay for this which is one reason I DISLIKE THEM TO THIS DAY, DOOR HANDLES THAT BROKE ON THE PULL. P.b. DRIVE BUTTONS THAT FELL INSIDE THE DASH, A REARVIEW MIRROR ON THE DASH THAT WOULD NOT TIGHTEN, ROCKER PANELS AND ABOVE HEADLIGHTS THAT RUSTED OUT IN 1 AND A HALF YEARS, RADIOS WERE GARBAGE, back up lights on the Dodge would fall right out of their housings while driving, V8,s with breaking crankshaft bolts, mouldings along the roof that flew off as you drove down the road, I remember a 57 Royal sedan doing this and with the moulding off we found the roof was tack welded only on the 4 corners. At least that helped us seal up some of the leaks on it. I can still smell the talcum powder we used to spray around doors and weatherstrips and then turn on the hose to see where the water would run through the powder. Front seats would split open between the vinyl and the fabric within the first year. I could go on but I think you get my message. In 58 they put a black and gold quality built sticker on the windshield but that was about the only thing new in quality progress, 59 was some better- But- yes, they were good looking cars especially the DeSoto which by the way, did not have as many faults as the Dodge & Plymouth lines. 60 was a good looking and good car, 61,s were ugly, 62 Leanbreeds were butt ugly and that’s when we decided enough is enough and switched to Pontiac-Buick Cadillac.
Thanks for letting me reminisce and rant
Ken
|
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 3577
Location: Blythewood, SC | Cool story bro... |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2524
Location: Houston | That's a good story, but I have to point out you can talk to ANY make-ready mechanic and he'll have all sorts of stories of the junk the factory sends to the dealers.
For example, not so much junk related, but in the 80's my best friend's father was make-ready at the Chevy dealership (still is). He said every vehicle came in one quart low on oil, and he would have to top it off. I asked why - he said he thought it was Chevrolet's way of deferring the cost of one quart of oil. In other words, if you ship a million cars and short each one a quart, it's a lot of money.
They also, by the 90's, knew to add a homemade rubber boot to the dip stick of every S-10 that had an auto trans. If not, rain would run down the dipstick and fill the trans with water. He said it was not uncommon to pull the dipstick on a 35,000 mile S10 and have the bottom half rusted away.
Many Suburbans weere received at the dealer with rear doors that would not open...pry bar time.
|
|
| |
|
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 444
Location: North of the 49th | Hi
The '57 quality problems were real , when I bought my '57 Dodge Mayfair hardtop as a second owner 25,000 mile car it had rusted out rockers and quarters , the front fenders were junk. I drove it for a bit before starting work on it and the front windshield leaked so bad that a river of water would run around the inside of the windshield , one night the water made it to the button box, leaked through the seal and popped the bulb. The doors would "hop" on their catches if you crossed a railway track , vent windows would not seal , I played with them on re-assembly for ages trying to get them to close properly. The vent window catch support casting on hardtops was weak and would break if you indiscriminently pulled on it to close the vent window, you had to push the vent window closed from the outside and then secure the latch. When I finally took the car apart there wasn't a bit of body seam sealant anywhere. A friend of the family worked at a local Chrysler dealer and saw these things new ...he questioned my sanity for wanting one, he mentioned that water leaks and powertrain issues were a fact of life , with the flat head sixes being the worst. There was a reason these cars had zip for resale value on the used car market; in a high corrosion environment (ie salt belt)
the FL cars became brown spots on the driveway by 1961-62.
Edited by grunau 2014-03-23 5:10 PM
|
|
| |
|
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 524
Location: West Jordan | I have been a Chevy fan all my life, had a Chevelle in high school and am going to build one after I finish with the wife’s Desoto, in fact I took great pride in kicking the a$$ of my friends who owned Mopars. I must say, looking at the clever design, the much better electrical system, and how well it has held to together after sitting in a field for 30 years, I feel like an A-hole for all the grief I gave my Mopar friends, still going to build the Chevelle though. |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1906
Location: Ontario, Canada | Yes, Brad, Ken took some delight in telling me similar stories many years ago when I ordered service manuals from him!!
Greg |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2524
Location: Houston | Back in the day...let's say 1982 through 1992....as the driver of a 440 powered Barracuda, I never once saw a BB Chevy that would run hard. I saw some SB Chevy's that ran well, for their size, but the big blocks were always dogs. This was on the street in actual cars people drove. On the strip, the only BB Chevy's that would post a good time were the ones that were back apart every other weekend for repairs. Nobody touched the 440 Mopars, whether they were mine or belonged to other people. They just were the best.
PS - Nobody had 426 Hemi's so that was a moot point. |
|
| |
|
Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | 1955 was a big selling year for Chrysler.
1956 was a poor selling year for Chrysler.
The 1957 models were REVOLUTIONARILY new, from tires (14") to roof (very thin and low pillars).
The 57's were a winner, design-wise, and Chrysler management decided to bring them to market with only 2 years' lead time,
instead of the usual 3-year's time, in part to rejuvenate their corporate income and their market share.
Big mistake.
The decision-makers' attitude was not unlike the US military, where honchos thought/think that they can effect positive
results by merely "ordering" something to be done (the Can-Do attitude....which coincidentally, was a major
1959 advertising program).
The advertising slogan "Suddenly it's 1960" was not a joke...it is claimed that the 57's were initially proposed for a later
sales year.
Anyway, the 1957 body designs included all-new construction protocols, with very-tight build tolerances.
The 1957+ cars were built using new "Gate-line" fixtures, which were supposed to create, or allow for precision body alignments.
For 1957, virtually all body joints needed to be perfectly aligned, and, as we all (-should) know, such was not the case,
as evidenced by multitudinous body leakages, rattles, and gaps (check the fitment of most hoods, trunks and back window
leakages, etcetcetc...)
According to a presentation transcript that a Dodge honcho gave, the roofline, with its very slim C pillars, was a major
design issue, to overcome.
By late 57, and beyond, the bodies fit fairly well, and in 1959, DeSoto (and probably the others) produced advertisements
bragging about their non-rattling....but, we're talking about 1957, here.
As a part of the indifferent quality control in 1957, the factory merely wanted to build as many cars, as possible, and it, de-
facto, said to the dealerships: YOU guys finish building our cars for us (we just want to get them out-the-door...).
And, as we also (-should) know, the improved 1958 models' sales suffered both from bad word-of-mouth
and news reports, but also from the severe 1958 Economic Recession.
About the only significant mechanical/engineering deficiencies associated with the 1957 designs (yeah, there were individual complaints...) were their torsion bars, which, apparently due to bad metallurgy---and/or possibly
due to installing them on the wrong-side of the car---suffered breakages.
Edited by d500neil 2014-03-23 9:09 PM
|
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2524
Location: Houston | I don't disagree, but I'll say this....the 'survivor' 57 Fireflite up in Missouri this past week - both doors were fitted as well as you could ask, and both opened and closed with the greatest of ease. You could fully close the door with light thumb pressure. They might not have fitted all the 57's properly, but that car was an example of what it could be like if they did. |
|
| |
|
Location: Parts Unknown | As one of the "Cleanup Crew", scouring the earth for Forward Look cars when they were just
beaters (before the rest of the world figured out that at least the design/idea side of Forward Look
cars was pretty dammed cool), I saw the very real aftermath of what Neil describes above.
A VERY FEW people out there actually liked their Forward Look cars and took care of them, but
in the big picture, these were very, very few. The VAST majority of owners ditched them and the
cars beat around on the secondary market with limited care before getting junked in droves, left
in fields, or otherwise trashed. When I did find them, they were often rusted badly and as I became
more familiar with their technical construction, realized why.
One thing that stands out in my mind about this subject is HOW the cars survived. To find a 57
or 58 car, one might paw through 40 or more examples from 55-56 or 59-61. The 57-58 cars had
a lot going for them in terms of looks, but they must have simply fallen apart under use with typical
non-maintenance. Add to that, it seems a lot of people DID grab them up as "hot" cars, only to flog
them or pull the drivetrains and junk the remainder.
This perspective has faded over the last 20 years as ANY Forward Look car is appreciated, even if
just for parts for another one. Back before 1990, and exponentially so with each year you go back,
few-to-none gave a flying sh!t about Forward Look cars, and even dedicated motorheads looked on
in wonder over the "idiot" who would actually want one.
The note that opened this thread, ... I heard that same schpiel 1000 times or more from old motor-
heads and non-car people alike.
Was 56 really a poor selling year for Mopar ? It seems to me it was just an off-year after the record-
setting 55 ??? 58 was a BAD sales year, ... at least for DeSoto. Hell, they outsold Chrysler for 57, only
to go completely in the tank the next year, dropping sales by some 65% ! Ouch ! 
|
|
| |
|
Expert 5K+
Posts: 9654
Location: So. Cal | I have seen a number of quality issues myself on my own '57 Chryslers.
The "V" brace behind the back seat was very poorly welded and came completely loose
Power seat switch made with hardboard material. Once damp from condensation or whatever, it warps to uselessness.
Poor welds in the "C" pillar area
The "C" pillar on one of my cars was welded improperly resulting in a large concave section at the lower portion. This appears to be as it came from the factory.
Badly designed power seat troughs that are doomed to rust
A large trough that collects water under the windshield with holes in it and plastic/hard rubber bushings to hold the lower trim - I would bet these things leaked water from the start. They certainly do now.
Weak vent window handle/mount as was mentioned by Miguel's friend.
But motor and suspension wise, I haven't noticed anything bad other than the lack of valve seals. But I suspect that was typical for other motors of the day.
|
|
| |
|
Location: North Australia | I find the OP story a bit hard to swallow. Surely the Chrysler Corporation (DCPD and IMPERIAL!) did not produce hundreds of thousands of lemons??
Granted, and I will stand corrected, my own experience is with 1 car, my 60 Imperial, and I am still amazed at how well built my car is after 3 years of working on it and driving it a bit.
Steve. |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1740
Location: Alaska | This guy that wrote you the note Brad is most likely telling the truth of what he remembers, I am sure with some exaggeration but it needs to be viewed in context. People brought their cars to the dealerships only when they had a problem so, of course he saw lots of problem cars. This was back in the day when your corner service station was "full service"so that's where they took their cars for minor stuff like oil changes if they didn't DIY. Every dealership of any make had to have seen similar issues. I am sure Chrysler made some mistakes by trying to rush these cars into production. I can only relate my personal experience. I owned 3 different 57-58 Plymouths as 10 year old used cars and I didn't have any of the issues listed above with the exception of torn upholstery on the driver's side front seat. Granted these were all "top of the line" Furys that were probably built later in the production run. I do agree with Doc that these cars did not hold their value as used cars but that made them good deals for a young guy without much money.
Edited by 58coupe 2014-03-24 8:35 AM
|
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 3575
Location: Netherlands | I'm willing to believe the Chrysler and Imperial (and Desoto?) makes would get more attention to finish and detail then the cheaper Dodge and Plymouths at the time.
d500neil - 2014-03-23 2:57 PM
... Big mistake ...
Really?
You say they should have waited another year, when all the other carmakers were upgrading their models for '57?
How outdated would a (failed?) '56 model have looked against a '57 Ford/GM model?
That would've been a suicide in market terms imo.
The mistake was maybe they should've started a year earlier with the design of the new platform.
|
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2308
Location: The Bat Cave, Fairborn, OH | miquelonbrad - 2014-03-23 3:20 PM Hi All, I just HAD to post this! Background: I sent a note to a fellow, regarding a 1957 Chrysler booklet, and we got into a conversation regarding the poor quality of the 1957 Chrysler cars. Now, I know they had issues, as I can attest to. But, he lived them at the time, and here's what he wrote: I was the 17 year old service manager in 1957 in my Fathers Dodge-DeSoto dealership. I remember broken torsion bars, valve jobs on 6 cyl. Models at 1500 miles, building drain troughts in the rear quarters with tin to try to drain water from the trunk to the ground, removing windshields and welding a band across the top to make the whole smaller to try to stop leaks, replacing mildew carpet and underlay constantly and Chrysler would not pay for this which is one reason I DISLIKE THEM TO THIS DAY, DOOR HANDLES THAT BROKE ON THE PULL. P.b. DRIVE BUTTONS THAT FELL INSIDE THE DASH, A REARVIEW MIRROR ON THE DASH THAT WOULD NOT TIGHTEN, ROCKER PANELS AND ABOVE HEADLIGHTS THAT RUSTED OUT IN 1 AND A HALF YEARS, RADIOS WERE GARBAGE, back up lights on the Dodge would fall right out of their housings while driving, V8,s with breaking crankshaft bolts, mouldings along the roof that flew off as you drove down the road, I remember a 57 Royal sedan doing this and with the moulding off we found the roof was tack welded only on the 4 corners. At least that helped us seal up some of the leaks on it. I can still smell the talcum powder we used to spray around doors and weatherstrips and then turn on the hose to see where the water would run through the powder. Front seats would split open between the vinyl and the fabric within the first year. I could go on but I think you get my message. In 58 they put a black and gold quality built sticker on the windshield but that was about the only thing new in quality progress, 59 was some better- But- yes, they were good looking cars especially the DeSoto which by the way, did not have as many faults as the Dodge & Plymouth lines. 60 was a good looking and good car, 61,s were ugly, 62 Leanbreeds were butt ugly and that’s when we decided enough is enough and switched to Pontiac-Buick Cadillac. Thanks for letting me reminisce and rant Ken I had a college room-mate who was so fond of everything American Motors/Gremlin that he left college after one year and took a job in a local AMC garage as parts manager.This was in 1969. When I asked him how it was after a year, he said it was an eye-opening experience. A couple of new 1970 Gremlins had been delivered to his dealership but they couldn't be backed down off the car carrier but had to be pushed off. When their mechanics put the cars on the lift to find out why no reverse reportedly they found that the factory had not done a proper job of putting the rear axles together; the ring gear was missing more than a few bolts for example. Detroit had a lot of quality control issues and it didn't start in the FL era either nor end until Detroit saw that the Japanese was gobbling up more and more of the domestic car market. The cars made today are much better because of the competition, but it's a shame that it seems as if the Japanese and Korean makers are claiming up to 50% of the US market.
Edited by 58 DESOTOS RULE 2014-03-24 12:35 PM
 (Cool Story Bro Pawn Star.jpg)
Attachments
----------------
 Cool Story Bro Pawn Star.jpg (27KB - 6249 downloads)
|
|
| |
|
Expert 5K+
Posts: 7806
Location: Williams California | My father bought a brand new Plaza 2-door sedan when we lived in southern Michigan. I can remember him taking plumber's straps to hold the headlights to the fenders within four or five years of ownership, and also putting plywood over the floors to secure the seat where the floors rusted away. I also remember something about him writing nasty letters to Chrysler corporation, complaining about these problems with a fairly new car. There were probably others, but that's all I can recall.
---John |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2524
Location: Houston | I recall growing up in Buffalo NY....it was just accepted that cars rusted. But what was funny, in hindsight, is how no one blamed the car makers. It was a common phrase "it's because they put salt on the roads...." - that's why they rusted. Everyone knew that "down South", where they didn't use salt, cars lasted forever.
What's really incredible is how they would have sold new cars into Northern regions especially with undercoating as an option. I mean, you've got three layers of steel sandwiched together - Seam City - with no real surface treatment, and nothing at all to prevent moisture from getting in there. |
|
| |
|
Location: Parts Unknown | My DeSoto's history chases back to 1960 in Syracuse, NY, when the new owner took it to Madison, WI.
It was stuffed in a garage as a rust bucket in 1968 and never moved again as a non-restored car. Taking
it apart myself, it is interesting to see the peculiar kind of rust that salted roads creates. Very different
than what occurs out west from nothing more than a wet climate. As GC mentions, the seams got salt in
them and scale, causing a puffy, porous "pith" that only held MORE wet salty material to rust the car even
quicker !
Out west, it was tree leaves and needles (and the acid from them) that held moisture to the metal, as they
collected in cowl vents, bottoms of doors, quarters, fenders and headlight pockets with condensed dust (mud)
from spinning tires or just the rain coming down.
Seaside cars rust from the top down. Salty sea fog/air settles onto roof drip rails, flat cowl areas, window
channels and creates a most bizarre kind of rust.
I can say that the fitment on my 58 cars was better than say, my old 57 NY'er coupe. That poor beast,
had big panel gaps and others that rubbed each other. How it survived as a fairly rust-free car is a wonder.
I suspect it remained in fairly well caring hands for a long time before falling into the clutches of the drag
racer I bought it from.
|
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2524
Location: Houston | Around Central Texas, and I suppose other places, the kiss of death is to park a car under a tree. Especially one that gives off 'sediment' of some sort. For example, Live Oaks give off this very granular type of seed (or whatever that crap is) and it gets down into every crack. It builds up, and makes a very good holder of water. 5 days after the rain stops, it's still wet in there. |
|
| |
|
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 524
Location: West Jordan | So in the salt lake valley less than 2 hours from Bonneville Salt Flats, we have access to a little bit of salt. In the winter our streets are white, not from snow but from salt. I don’t know if there was vast improvements from 57 to 60 but my 72 Chevelle has rust through in the floor and trunk, the 60 Desoto doe not, in fact only surface rust under the car. From what I have read the Desoto was dipped, and I think the 57 was as well, I would guess the 72 was sprayed. I have personally done the wiring on many cars from the 30’s to the 2Ks, some had rust and some did not, some had fit problems some did not, it all depended how well it was taken care of. I remember as a kid going to the car wash after a storm to spray the salt off, bet a lot of the cars in question did not get that love. And the fact is I can open and close the door on the Desoto with one finger, only other vehicle I own that is that easy is my CJ, and it has no doors.
The point is, Fiat….err…u…Chrysler is making some fine cars, if you are all worked up about the quality of the cars from the 50’s, which by the way most people involved in the project are probably dead, you should sale to someone who appreciated it for what it is and by something new. But that is just my thoughts.
|
|
| |
|
Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca |
Herman argues, above, that Chrysler did the right thing, in rushing-into-production the brand new 1957 designs, with all
of the resultant build issues that took months/years to rectify.
Here's excerpts of the presentation that the President of Dodge Division gave to the Society of Body Engineers, on 10/23/57
regarding the unique design problems that were presented in the 1957 FWDLKs...
and some photos of how well prototype cars were built, with the new Gateline fixtures.
 (PICT0703.JPG)
 (PICT0704.JPG)
 (PICT0705.JPG)
 (PICT0706.JPG)
 (PICT0707.JPG)
 (PICT0708.JPG)
 (PICT0709.JPG)
 (PICT0710.JPG)
 (PICT0711.JPG)
 (PICT0712.JPG)
 (PICT0713.JPG)
Attachments
----------------
PICT0703.JPG (106KB - 216 downloads)
PICT0704.JPG (58KB - 164 downloads)
PICT0705.JPG (58KB - 183 downloads)
PICT0706.JPG (60KB - 151 downloads)
PICT0707.JPG (58KB - 182 downloads)
PICT0708.JPG (109KB - 164 downloads)
PICT0709.JPG (55KB - 176 downloads)
PICT0710.JPG (107KB - 133 downloads)
PICT0711.JPG (107KB - 174 downloads)
PICT0712.JPG (115KB - 196 downloads)
PICT0713.JPG (109KB - 185 downloads)
|
|
| |
|
Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | From the above, you can see that leak prevention (and rust prevention and rattle elimination) were all functions of how well the
body panels were aligned to each other.
By 1959, fairly well built cars were being built.
|
|
| |
|
| Always thought it was the early 57's that had the real issues, the later(ish) 1957 models seemed to be halfway decent automobiles. I think the biggest downfall for the FL cars would have to be rust, solid cars here are a rare sight, unless really taken care of.
Then again, my aunt bought a brand new Asian car about a year ago- which after a week the electronics had more bugs than a jungle.... |
|
| |
|
Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | On the LA news, last night, a 2015 Gotta-Mechanic-Coming? Yukon burned to the ground, during a test drive.
|
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 164
Location: ST. Stephen NB Canada | I can agree with Greg, that 1950's era cars were destined to have a short life here in the north east. In 1967 my friend's father would always tease us if we brought anything other than a mopar into his yard. We in turn would make fun of his '59 Belvedere with it's "floating headlights". The tops of the front fenders about 10 inches back, & any corresponding metal that secured the headlights was completely gone. Completely rusted out, & the headlights were secured with haywire. That being said, I purchased my '55 Royal last year in Massachusetts & it is a rust free car. Word has it that it originated from Pennsylvania, not sure if that would make a difference or not. The underside is coated in heavy undercoating, especially on the front fenders, and around the headlights. Some of it in the floor area has flaked off, but for the most part it is still intact. Last year I under coated it with "Krown" under coating & will repeat again this year. Garry |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2524
Location: Houston | Remember when you were a big shot when you had your car "Ziebarted"? That showed you really knew your stuff, and weren't afraid to pay for it! |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2312
Location: Arizona | My sister keeps getting her trucks "Ziebarted" up in NY state. I thought it had gone out of fashion but turned out she just spent thousands having hers done. She seems to think it's worth it. My wallet's not that fat. |
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 164
Location: ST. Stephen NB Canada | "Ziebart"-That's a name brand that I do remember, but never hear of anymore. Yeah "Thou$and$" wouldn't work for me either. Krown costs me $120.00 plus 13% tax. I have it on my other car & it forms a black coating that seals the under side ,-Garry |
|
| |
|
Elite Veteran
Posts: 836
Location: Layton, Utah | Darren, are you taking the 60 DeSoto to the Hinkley car show this year ? I'd like to check it out. It's coming up soon. |
|
| |
|
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 524
Location: West Jordan | 60crossram - 2014-03-24 10:29 PM Darren, are you taking the 60 DeSoto to the Hinkley car show this year ? I'd like to check it out. It's coming up soon. I don’t know, I got burned on a FI engine swap for a local Jeep shop, did not get it out of the way until February, so I am way behind. Unless we find problems with the Trans, the plan is to drive it a little in the summer, should have the major body work done but no paint and interior will be blankets. The bad part is that it is our busy season and I have limited time, should pay someone but it is my therapy, cheaper than a shrink. Working on the brakes and suspension now wiring harness is almost out, I hope to have it drivable and to the body shop in the next 30 days so it will be close, isn’t it the first week of June? |
|
| |
|
Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | "Ziebarting" really did work, because that company/process applied their mastic material to all the nooks and crannies
inside a car, even to the extent of opening access holes in the underside of the body, as may have been necessary.
The material was applied all over the undercarriage and frame, too, not elegant; but effective.
|
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2524
Location: Houston | They also drilled their own holes in a lot of places so they could squirt it in, then plugged the holes with plastic caps. We had a '66 Ford truck that had been Ziebarted, it even still had the helmet-head sticker on the window to prove it. Where they had applied the gooey tar, it never rusted. But it did rust in other places where they had not, such as the roof rail.
Then there were the guys who swore by coating the underside of their car every time they changed the oil, with the used motor oil. That took dedication, I suppose. |
|
| |
|
Location: Parts Unknown | Makes me really question the "sanity" of living in a place with terrible winters and related BS
like salted roads. Do others feel WHERE they live is as "optional" as I do ? It seems to me that
most people never question where they live, staying close to where they grew up all their lives,
or just follow a job, never really giving any thought to the environment that comes with it.
I suppose most people (including original Forward Look buyers) just see a car as transportation
and so my over-emphasized interest/concern is not shared by most. But when I am in KC in July
and the humidity is 11,000% and it's 104º out, I am thinking to myself "Why ?" Or looking at cars
utterly WASTED by rust in less than a decade ! It was bad enough trying to find cars back in
Seattle, and eastcoasters used to tell me it was 1000x worse there !
Winters are bad enough here, but outside of Dec-Jan, it is usually pretty nice. I came here by
choice, and it was FOR the environment. Job, life, family, .. all other considerations were secondary.
Yeah, I know .... I'm weird ! 
|
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2312
Location: Arizona | THere's a reason retirees most move west and south and not east and north..... |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1384
Location: Ocala, Florida | I'm glad the original owner of Lucy took such good care of her. She barely has any rust from her few years on the road. Only half of the car is under coated just half. The trunk is also that way. Of course she didn't have much time on the road. The doors shut well but the trunk lid is really misaligned. I never realized how thin the metal on these cars are. |
|
| |
|
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 449
Location: jersey | jimntempe - 2014-03-25 2:39 PM
THere's a reason retirees most move west and south and not east and north.....
cost of living is cheaper. |
|
| |
|
Expert 5K+
Posts: 7206
Location: Victoria, BC, on Vancouver Island, Canada | The Chrysler Kid - 2014-03-25 2:47 PM
I'm glad the original owner of Lucy took such good care of her. She barely has any rust from her few years on the road. Only half of the car is under coated just half. The trunk is also that way. Of course she didn't have much time on the road. The doors shut well but the trunk lid is really misaligned. I never realized how thin the metal on these cars are. :)
Sheet metal is thinner on new cars today, than those olds beasts!! |
|
| |
|
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 524
Location: West Jordan | Having just worked on the brakes on the 60 DeSoto, I can say who ever thought the booster above the master cylinder was a good idea needs to be shot, even if it requires he be dug up first, shoot him and put him back! Wow what a stupid design. |
|
| |
|
Elite Veteran
Posts: 836
Location: Layton, Utah | Darren, The Hinkley show from the message I just got is April 9th, I will try to verify that date. This is not the Larry H. Miller Mopar show, that one is usually in June. Steve Hinkley used to run the LHM show, but got fired/demoted or something and went back to Hinkley Dodge where he has worked previously for 20+ years and he is running his own Mopar show again. Mopars at the Strip in Vegas is April 11-13, I usually go, Not sure if I will this year although it is always a blast. They will be celebrating the 50th anniversary of the Hemi and the 100th anniversary of Dodge this year. Mostly muscle cars which are cool, I have a 68 R/T Charger 440 4-speed Dana car and a 70 Challenger RT/SE, I love the Muscle cars, but the Forward look cars I have to say are more unique and really get more attention. |
|
| |
|
Elite Veteran
Posts: 836
Location: Layton, Utah | My 57 DeSoto came out of San Francisco and with 54K miles is does not have very much rust at all. It has a few pin holes coming through in spots from crap sitting down in the panels. The fender/headlight areas are not rusted at all. The floors had some surface rust in some spots from the leaky window seals and a lot of surface rust under the dash and headliner from not being painted and having moisture in the interior. My 60 DeSoto came from Idaho, there is a bit of rust but not much, basically some in the rear from the failed/leaky trunk weather strip area. They don't use salt up there like we do here in Utah. We have the "Great Salt Lake" so there is plenty of that S*** to spread on the streets. I do not drive anything I like in the winter months at all and wait until the rain has washed it away from the streets. One of the 60 DeSoto's I parted out years ago had little plastic drain tubes that ran from the trunk weatherstrip area on both sides down through the trunk floor. I guess it might help. I don't know if this was a dealer repair or what. |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1737
Location: Hay Lakes, Alberta, Canada | I think Chrysler started to use drain tubes on some in '58, so I've been told. I am going to install tubes on the front and rear windows. I found some *cough* achoo! GM *ahem* ones to use...  |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2524
Location: Houston | I simply stopped letting my cars get wet some time ago. I mean, when they are washed they get wet but that's it. And I don't wash them as often, either. Water is really tough on an old car.
My cars are parked indoors, always, and I don't drive them in the rain. |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1906
Location: Ontario, Canada | This thread started by Brad quoting Ken whose objection/remarks were directed at new and/or quite new cars. It may be significant to note that Kens fathers dealership was in Ontario Canada and the vast majority of the cars they were selling were built in Canada.
It may also be interesting to note that in 57/58, a number of previously successful dealerships actually LOST money during those years which prompted them to abandon ship in favour of Ford or GM. Let me put it this way. Who of anyone out there knows of Ford or GM family dealerships that went broke and had to climb in bed with their competition?
I personally know three families with Mopar dealerships that had to abandon ship in or shortly after those years.
I also know of companies like Weldwood Plywood who purchased FLEETS of these cars and lost crazy amounts of money when they had to sell/unload them a couple years later. Those kinds of monetary losses had never occurred before or since.
While I, personally, love these cars, they were hated by a lot of people. Perhaps rightly so and some have very emphatically told me so as they visited my shops over the years!!
Greg |
|
| |
|
Location: Parts Unknown | I have always been attracted to old people. From their stories to the "wisdom" to the way they dress
and talk. I always liked "old", and what better way to learn about it than listen to oldsters ?
Started doing it when I was pretty young. If I saw an old car and had the chance to look it over or
talk with the driver, it usually ended up as some sort of learning experience and fueled my interest.
Naturally, when I came of driving age, I wanted and old car and once driving one, attracted attention
from oldtimers who shared their stories, opinions, etc.
The negative spin on finned Mopars ran deep with many. At best, they were a surviving novelty to
some, but most who took the time to share, had bad stories to tell. I've always been a fan for the
underdog, so hearing all the horror stories was a good learning experience for what to look out for
and ideas on how to fix problems.
I learned much of what I know from old heads who shared their experiences and insights. Most people
with firsthand knowledge of our cars as new vehicles are dead now and our collective perspective has
warped to that of popular collector cars that everyone is proud of, or at least mildly interested in, in a
positive way.
|
|
| |
|
Expert 5K+
Posts: 7206
Location: Victoria, BC, on Vancouver Island, Canada | My 58 Dodge Custom Royal, when purchased by me in 1974 had rust in the rockers, and the driver's floor had a hole between the gas and brake pedals that I patched up with some sheet metal, pop rivets and roof tar, and the trunk floor had been replaced with a new flat piece of sheet metal pop riveted in before I got the car. The eyebrows were solid for some strange reason, and wheel lips were solid, rear and passenger floors were solid. This of course was a west coast car. When I bought the 60 Polara later that year, (1974) I discovered about a week after I bought it that the headlight pots / eyebrows were rusted out but had been hastily patched with a bit of sheet metal brazed in, bondoed up and repainted. The trunk floor had a little rust on the right rear but everything else was solid as a rock. Another west coast car. I got a set of rust free Arizona fenders for it a couple of years later that are still on the car. My 59 Chrysler Windsor that I got in 1982 had been a Manitoba car brought out here to the west coast in the late seventies. It was solid as a rock coming from a province in the Canadian rust belt that has months of sub zero temps. and snow in the winter. Not sure how that car escaped the rusting but it did. When I pulled the carpets to replace them the floors were still white. My 1960 Matador was bought in Seattle, in 1980 also solid as a rock other than a little rust just starting around the eyebrows. The 60 DeSoto bought in 1977 had a few pin holes over the eyebrows just starting, and a little rust in the trunk floor, due to the very poor design of the deck lid rail and ill-fitting lid and poor weatherstriip seal. Other than that everything else was very solid on it. The west coast, all in all was quite easy on these cars, unless of course you got the seaside fog and salty mist settling on the top of the cars, which never happens here in the Vancouver / Victoria area. They do salt our roads here in the winter, and we rarely get snow, but if the local municipal workers think there is even a slim chance of overnight frost they get out there with the salt trucks. Luckly it doesn't happen here a huge amount and then the rain comes and washes it away.
What I do remember very clearly was seeing many 1955 & later Plymouths and Chevys with gaping rust holes on the eyebrows, but this was in the late 60s and early 70s. Those seemed to be the most vulnerable areas prone to rusting around here, just from collecting dirt flying from the tires and staying wet for months at a time during the winter. Full front wheel housings didn't show up on most cars until around the mid sixties. Some of the more expensive cars resorted to having a vertical baffle installed from factory in front of the front wheel / behind the headlight area to keep the dirt from collecting over the headlights.
Edited by imopar380 2014-03-26 1:13 AM
|
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1906
Location: Ontario, Canada | Well, Doc, I turned 16 in Feb. 58 and I'm not dead yet!! I drove a lot of 'me when they were quite new. The best news for myself and everyone on this site is that I got to drive and restore several FABULOUS road car examples. I also can tell horror stories, primarily about Plodges, Plymouths and a 300 C about how they behaved when they were new.
Bottom line: there are things a restorer can do to eliminate the BS that consumers had to put up with from the assembly line cars. It just takes experience and common sense! You know; things that seem to be lacking today.
These cars can be the most fun of them all! The driving fun just has to be developed. The most fun will be reached when you take a carload of your disbeliever"buddies" for a quick spin on the interstate at crazy speeds in your newly restored FL car. When you get back to the lot all they want to do is burn their cars!!
Greg |
|
| |
|
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 524
Location: West Jordan | 60crossram - 2014-03-25 6:53 PM Darren, The Hinkley show from the message I just got is April 9th, I will try to verify that date. This is not the Larry H. Miller Mopar show, that one is usually in June. Steve Hinkley used to run the LHM show, but got fired/demoted or something and went back to Hinkley Dodge where he has worked previously for 20+ years and he is running his own Mopar show again. Mopars at the Strip in Vegas is April 11-13, I usually go, Not sure if I will this year although it is always a blast. They will be celebrating the 50th anniversary of the Hemi and the 100th anniversary of Dodge this year. Mostly muscle cars which are cool, I have a 68 R/T Charger 440 4-speed Dana car and a 70 Challenger RT/SE, I love the Muscle cars, but the Forward look cars I have to say are more unique and really get more attention. Man this year is just slipping by too fast, if it is April there is no way I will make it. Always next year. Although it was AMC at the time perhaps I will drive down in the CJ, think anyone will notice it is not a YJ, I always look forward to driving it, unless it’s cold. |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1819
Location: Vancouver, BC |
1956 was not a bad year for Chrysler. Sure their sales fell, but 1955 was a record year for the Big Three, except for Lincoln. For 1956 everyone save Lincoln and Rambler offered updated 1955 models. And everyone except Ford, Lincoln and Cadillac saw their sales fall. By the way, its a myth that Ford and its safety campaign was a bust. In the U.S. Chevrolet market share rose 0.9% for 1956 while Ford gained 3.1%. And in Canada Chrysler did better than in 1955, with 1956 being a record that would not be beat until the mid-1960s.
Chrysler body quality was only part of the problem in 1957. In Canada their engines proved to be anything but bullet proof. My aunt had a 1957 Plymouth Plaza that went through three engines (251 flathead six) and two transmissions (manual !). Water and dust everywhere, as well as squeaks and rattles. My father had a 1955 Dodge Regent (251 with Powerflite) at about the same time. No problems with the engine or transmissions, and no squeaks, rattles or leaks. People noticed more than just the styling differences between 1957 and 1955-56.
Chrysler could have postponed the 1957 models until 1958. Only Ford and Mercury had new models for 1957, while Oldsmobile, Buick and Cadillac had reskinned 1954 models, which in turn were redone 1950-51 bodies based on the 1948 models. Chevrolet, Pontiac, Edsel, and Lincoln were new for 1958, but the rest were just redone 1957 models. And given what GM was getting ready for 1959 prior to seeing the new 1957 Mopar products, Chrysler could have done more damage to GM and Ford by waiting until 1958. No cats eye 1959 Chevrolets, no delta-wing Buicks, no dual-finned Pontiacs, etc. The delayed 1958 Mopar products would have made the same sensation as the 1957 models did, but with much better build quality. And the better build quality would have resulted in a better reputation and stable sales through 1960.
Chrysler of Canada suffered the reputation of the poor 1957 models right through to 1963, when the 5/50 powertrain warranty helped ditch the poor quality image. Plymouth and Dodge sold over 44,000 cars each in 1956, fell to a little over 31,000 each for 1957, and then plunged in 1958. 1959 was up slightly followed by 1960, but 1961 was down again. Rock bottom was 1962 with about 10,000 Plymouths and Dodges each, both just below Chrysler and far behind Valiant.
The gateline was actually evoutionary, not revolutionary. Car manufacturers had been using various jig arrangements for decades. Had to. That was the only way the various body pieces could be aligned and fit properly. And it became extremely important when the all-steel body became the norm in the late 1930s. Hard to adjust welds after the body is put together.
|
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 3967
Location: DFW, TX | Chrycoman - 2014-03-26 1:22 AM
Chrysler could have postponed the 1957 models until 1958. ... The delayed 1958 Mopar products would have made the same sensation as the 1957 models did, but with much better build quality. And the better build quality would have resulted in a better reputation and stable sales through 1960.
I've often thought exactly this, except the reputation part. I think the '57-59 Mopars gave Chrysler a black eye for the better part of a decade. And in my opinion, the dramatic sales slump of 1958 made them question their styling direction, leading to some bizarre offerings from '60-62.
I've really enjoyed reading this thread. Has anyone noticed a significant quality difference between the various assembly plants? My Detroit-built 1957 New Yorker is solid as a rock, while my LA-built '57 Firedome and LA-built '57 Suburban were both rust buckets. |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 3155
Location: NY & VT | My '58 Windsor was Dodge built in Detroit, Hamtramck I believe, and is extremely sound and rust free, (with the exception of the L R quarter accident damage that led to leaks and localized bottom fender rust strictly there), and my '58 Detroit-built NY'er convert was equally solid, but the former spent it's whole life in New Mexico and the latter in central Nevada, so I'm sure that had a great deal to do with it. My '57 Suburban came from Freman's and before that he said from the Eastern part of WA (Spokanistan area?) but it had quite severe rust in the roof drip rail area and above the tailgate window and the underside of the roof, oddly, the rest of the body was pretty solid. East coast cars that have survived have either been driven little in winter or maintained with extreme care, otherwise they evaporated in short order due to rust or mechanical issues.
As to why we live where we do, well, mainly because of family in my case. Hate the weather in NY 4-5 months of the year, the rest is nice, but being near to family trumps bad weather, the older I get the more important time spent with family gets. We may have to escape a few months of the year though in "retirement" years upcoming, and since one offspring lives in Denver, it may be to there, at least the sun comes out regularly in winter.
Edited by firedome 2014-03-26 10:29 AM
|
|
| |
1957 quality control problems
