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roblun

Posted 2014-04-22 11:28 PM (#437337)
Subject: Diagnosis of a Braking problem Kelsey-Hayes bellows

Veteran

Posts: 201
100

Location: Fremantle, Western Australia, Australia

Hi everyone, I have just finish converting my 1958 Plymouth Belvedere RHD (with 1958 Dodge RHD dash) to Power Brakes,
the car has the Kelsey-Hayes power braking system. The whole braking system has been rebuilt with new rubbers, seal
and hoses. Drum brakes have been machined, new wheel cylinders and rubbers and new shoes...so the works.

The car brakes beautifully, the best I have ever had them since owning the car (1985), the problem is when its been
driving for around 20-30 mins the pedal becomes hard, you just have to touch the pedal and the car comes to an
immediate stop. If I pull the hose from the vacuum reservoir, blast of air comes out, and the braking system returns
to normal and if you keep driving again for about 20-30 mins same thing happens again

Does anyone know what the problem could be

cheers

Roberto

Edited by roblun 2014-04-23 3:11 AM

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Attachments
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$T2eC16J,!)UE9s3wBoDoBS!HU!MH)w~~60_57.JPG (175KB - 121 downloads)

miquelonbrad

Posted 2014-04-23 8:55 PM (#437500 - in reply to #437337)
Subject: Re: Diagnosis of a Braking problem Kelsey-Hayes bellows

Expert

Posts: 1737
1000

Location: Hay Lakes, Alberta, Canada

Hi Roberto,

I'm no expert on these boosters, but seems to me that the booster may be trying to operate, when you are not needing it...the shop manual lists several important adjustments that need to be checked, such as pedal free play, and pedal trigger adjustment. Have you set those after your installation? I could copy the manual, if you don't have one...

roblun

Posted 2014-04-25 2:56 AM (#437736 - in reply to #437500)
Subject: Re: Diagnosis of a Braking problem Kelsey-Hayes bellows

Veteran

Posts: 201
100

Location: Fremantle, Western Australia, Australia

Hi Brad I have the 1958 Plymouth manual, is this the manual that you
are talking about, Cheers

StillOutThere

Posted 2014-04-25 9:30 AM (#437752 - in reply to #437337)
Subject: Re: Diagnosis of a Braking problem Kelsey-Hayes bellows

Location: Under the X in Texas

I'd suggest you talk to Karp's Brakes in Ontario, CA who is an expert on the K-H system. If not a call, try email. They are currently sleeving wheel cylinders for me.

ronbo97

Posted 2014-04-25 10:23 AM (#437767 - in reply to #437500)
Subject: Re: Diagnosis of a Braking problem Kelsey-Hayes bellows

Expert

Posts: 4042
2000

Location: Connecticut

I'm willing to bet that the power brake trigger arm needs adjustment. See page 44 of the 58 Ply shop manual.

Just a silly question: When you changed over to power brakes, did you also install a power brake pedal assembly ?

Ron

BigBlockMopar

Posted 2014-04-25 12:52 PM (#437796 - in reply to #437337)
Subject: Re: Diagnosis of a Braking problem Kelsey-Hayes bellows

Expert

Posts: 3575
2000

Location: Netherlands

Usually this sympton means there is not enough play in the shaft between the master cylinder and brake pedal.
When things warm up the MC starts to get actuated and prevents brakefluid returning from the sytem.

Shep

Posted 2014-04-25 3:31 PM (#437831 - in reply to #437796)
Subject: Re: Diagnosis of a Braking problem Kelsey-Hayes bellows

Expert

Posts: 3396
2000

Location: Chestertown, NY ( near Lake George)

Booster control valve could be the culprit also.

roblun

Posted 2014-04-26 12:26 AM (#437905 - in reply to #437767)
Subject: Re: Diagnosis of a Braking problem Kelsey-Hayes bellows

Veteran

Posts: 201
100

Location: Fremantle, Western Australia, Australia

Hi Ron, yes the Power Brake Pedal Assembly was installed...Cheers

roblun

Posted 2014-07-23 6:59 AM (#450164 - in reply to #437905)
Subject: Re: Diagnosis of a Braking problem Kelsey-Hayes bellows

Veteran

Posts: 201
100

Location: Fremantle, Western Australia, Australia

Hi all still having problems with these darn brakes

60 dart

Posted 2014-07-23 1:57 PM (#450209 - in reply to #437337)
Subject: Re: Diagnosis of a Braking problem Kelsey-Hayes bellows

Expert 5K+

Posts: 8947
5000

Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA

open up the bellows and "make sure" everything is real clean and "everything" moves freely --------------------------------------------------------later

57chizler

Posted 2014-07-23 4:14 PM (#450223 - in reply to #450164)
Subject: Re: Diagnosis of a Braking problem Kelsey-Hayes bellows

Expert

Posts: 3777
2000

Location: NorCal

roblun - 2014-07-23 3:59 AM

Hi all still having problems with these darn brakes

What have you done so far? Adjusted the push rod? Adjusted the actuator arm as per the FSM?

BigBlockMopar

Posted 2014-07-23 4:51 PM (#450226 - in reply to #437337)
Subject: Re: Diagnosis of a Braking problem Kelsey-Hayes bellows

Expert

Posts: 3575
2000

Location: Netherlands

I've delt with the actuator arm once some years ago I recall that it should be adjusted properly.

roblun

Posted 2014-12-22 9:36 PM (#465585 - in reply to #437337)
Subject: RE: Diagnosis of a Braking problem Kelsey-Hayes bellows

Veteran

Posts: 201
100

Location: Fremantle, Western Australia, Australia

OK, there just seems to be a small problem now, when driving the car on an open road/freeway at normal
speed the car is braking beautifully no noises or locking , once I start to drive in the city where there is a lot of slow speed
driving and starting and stopping that's when the problems start. When moving from a Stop position or start to slow down
the Brakes will start grabbing, and you can hear clunking and thudding on the front passenger side and then the noise stops
after I get to cruising speed.

The other problem is, and its happened a few times, I would be driving probably at 5- 10 mph, just touch the pedal
and the car would lockup on the driver's side and pull slightly to the right hand side and screech to a stop. Once I get back
driving on an open freeway at 50-60 mph it breaks beautifully again, its just goes crazy when I'm driving slowly and using
the brakes more in city driving

My car is Right Hand Drive

i

57plybel

Posted 2014-12-22 11:00 PM (#465590 - in reply to #437337)
Subject: RE: Diagnosis of a Braking problem Kelsey-Hayes bellows

Extreme Veteran

Posts: 594
500

Location: Melbourne, Australia

After checking for shoe contamination, I would check/replace the return springs on the shoes.... often overlooked. I had an identical problem to you Roberto ! The fronts at the very least....

Colin

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