|
|
Account Suspended
Posts: 2827
   
Location: At "The Rock" in upper East Tennessee | This will be going on ebay soon.
Chance of a lifetime opportunity here to build your own “Christine” or look at it as the single greatest ’58 Plymouth parts lot ever offered for sale!
Basically the reason it’s being sold is because the owner Steve Clark of Australia found a beautiful ’58 survivor in his home country.
This car is located at my shop in Morristown Tennessee and he needs some of his investment back and I need the space so it works for both of us.
The original plan was to convert the rust free 2 door sedan body to a 2 door hardtop. All of the necessary parts and panels to do this are here.
An educated guess and as you can see from the pictures the car is 95% complete with the main missing parts being for the interior which has already been sold to another project now completed.
The chassis has been restored, fresh built poly head 318 engine and ’59 model Torqueflite transmission, new rear brakes, front disk brake conversion with Corvette master cylinder conversion kit included.
Floor pan has been stripped and painted in GM Spectra Red.
Body is in awesome condition for one of these cars and probably one of the best I personally have ever worked on.
I’m going to let the pictures tell more of the story but if you have questions about the car I’ll do my best to help you.
Any offers should be directed to the owner as pricing is not up to me. He will be along soon to post here so you can speak with him.
I'll also be posting a lot more pics soon as I get them sorted and uploaded to a hosting site.
  hristine/GEDC0147_zps7e34cb38.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo GEDC0147_zps7e34cb38.jpg"/>
|
|
| |
|
Account Suspended
Posts: 2827
Location: At "The Rock" in upper East Tennessee | As it presently sits
 |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 3155
Location: NY & VT | Long time no hear Donnie... hope all is well. Looks like a super solid car! |
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 131
Location: Western Australia | the car is rust free and comes with some very sort after parts......please message me if you are interested |
|
| |
|
Account Suspended
Posts: 2827
Location: At "The Rock" in upper East Tennessee | some of these are from back when it was going together
 |
|
| |
|
Account Suspended
Posts: 2827
Location: At "The Rock" in upper East Tennessee | 
|
|
| |
|
Account Suspended
Posts: 2827
Location: At "The Rock" in upper East Tennessee | 
 |
|
| |
|
Account Suspended
Posts: 2827
Location: At "The Rock" in upper East Tennessee | 
 |
|
| |
|
Account Suspended
Posts: 2827
Location: At "The Rock" in upper East Tennessee | 
|
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 131
Location: Western Australia | do you have any photos of the MSD kit Donnie............... |
|
| |
|
Elite Veteran
Posts: 1172
Location: Georgia | Good luck with the sale, Steve! It will make a great project for someone.
Pete |
|
| |
|
Account Suspended
Posts: 2827
Location: At "The Rock" in upper East Tennessee | Steve, the Distributor is in it and the wires are in one of the several "parts boxes". |
|
| |
|
Account Suspended
Posts: 2827
Location: At "The Rock" in upper East Tennessee | Just a reminder, anyone who is interested and would like to make Steve an offer before this goes to ebay should do so. Don't be scared, all he can say is no or yes!
She may go on ebay as early as tonight but for sure within the next 2 days. Again, Steve needs her sold and I have to have the space. |
|
| |
|
Account Suspended
Posts: 2827
Location: At "The Rock" in upper East Tennessee | Just an update. She hasn't gone on ebay yet. Some local interest has been shown so again if your thinking about it now it the time to contact Steve. |
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 131
Location: Western Australia | For everyone's attention...............this project has now all been sold. |
|
| |
|
Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
Location: .Norfolk..Mafia.. ,England UK | Sorry to see your dream of owning a 2dr HT christine shattered Steve , I know the truth and it wasnt your idea to sell this project,
In time i hope the truth can be known..
. |
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 131
Location: Western Australia | I have quite the story with my experience. |
|
| |
|
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 500
Location: Upper East Tennessee | Big project Steve! I'm glad you will be able to simplify things and focus on more important issues. Don't give up the dream...just postpone it some. |
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 131
Location: Western Australia | thank you Tim.............. |
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 131
Location: Western Australia | This is now all over for me......And I would like to clear up some untruths in the original post. I never wanted to sell this project off. The car and its parts being sold off had nothing to do with me buying a survivor car here in Australia....NOTHING AT ALL TO DO WITH THAT.
The reason I purchased the survivor car was that after waiting for years and years (2008 - 2014) for my build to be progressed with little to no progress and very little information,, I couldn't wait any longer for the car that was supposed to be being built for me. I turned 50 in 2013 and had to spend more money to satisfy a dream I had held since 1983. that dream is now utterly shattered.!!!! and this had nothing to do with any choice to walk away from the contract, It was made in utter frustration and dismay.
WE had committed to a completed frame off build, all turnkey and complete with an agreed price and material supply.
My mistake was to trust the information in front of me and the advice I received and was given, based on this I paid my contract price up front "FOOLISH". To be fair the car I originally purchased was miss represented by the seller, (A well known forward look hobbyist, who i will not name) IT WAS ROTTEN and was sold to me without honesty and truthfulness, but equally i was not told about this NOR advised as such and proceeded to spend good money on progressing the build only to have it fall in a heap EVEN after receiving videos telling me how good it was.
Then onto buying the second car, the one just sold and shown above, to which I am very grateful to those who purchased the car and parts, you have relieved me of a serious burden at a very difficult personal time. This car was planned to be a built using the purchased parts and to transplant the roof from the original car.
Again, I went into this build under advice and guidance only to have this fall in a heap as well and parked in the corner.........for YEARS !!!! little to no information followed and then I received outside information to tell me that i should get out of the contract whilst I could, salvage and sell as much as possible as soon as I could, , news was spreading fast and I was way out in the cold and could do nothing......Being from the other side of the planet......how could I, give up on the thousands of dollars, how could I.
So, thankfully, this nightmare is now over.......and I am out of pocket considerably....THOUSANDS!!!
There is always two sides to a story, , however mine was commitment and honesty driven, with integrity, based up years experience of running a successful business., dealing with my customers in a truthful and fair way, making certain that my customers were looked after and my contracts were honoured and never dropped if it didn't suit my plans. 20 years of honouring my contracts and fulfilling my commitments regardless of the management hours and labour hours consumed. I quote it, I accept the contract, I supply it.....PERIOD
I was never approached to renegotiate anything...NOT ONCE. So trusted the contract would be honoured.
So, my advice here is to be very careful with whom you contract to build you a car, or any other vehicle for that matter. Not everyone is as they seem....DO YOUR RESEARCH PEOPLE.
|
|
| |
|
Account Suspended
Posts: 2827
Location: At "The Rock" in upper East Tennessee | I'm not into Drama anymore. Some facts that are not mentioned are that an agreed portion of the afore mentioned "paid up front" contract money was refunded. I never asked to be paid up front. I was paid because "The exchange rates are good" I have since set a policy that I WILL NOT accept labor payment prior to said labor being finished.
Now all said and done I did make mistakes. Going into this I had never before done a project of this magnitude for anyone besides myself. At the time I had done my own car that brought attention and the next thing I knew I had these projects stacking up. I don't allow that to happen anymore. One large project at a time and no more then two small ones at a time.
I didn't realize the time or the labor that went into it. I set a price of 10K to build this car originally (I wouldn't even look at doing a project like this for that amount now) and as Steve mentioned we ended up with a second car which at that we should have renegotiated and did not. (my fault) There was only verbal communication that since we were starting another car I would have to move forward with other pressing projects.
Next mistake I made that I freely admit is allowing my now ex-wife get into the business. She pressed me to do a lot of smaller jobs for quick money that I did and this pushed the bigger jobs back more and more.
Not long after came the divorce.
This set everything back a long time as I moved, rebuilt a shop, and not the least of which rebuilt a life.
So yes, I did make mistakes. Yes, I have learned from them. I'm terribly sorry Steve isn't happy. I like Steve, always have.
I'm sorry he is out some of his investment. I'm sure most here would agree that it's hard to get your money back out of any of these cars that you build yourself let alone pay someone else to do. especially now with the economy in the tank.
All of this being said, I did all knew how to do in order to make this end as well as it could. I helped set up the large dollar amount sale of the finished interior and rechromed parts to a customer in Canada, I posted in as many locations that I felt would get the greatest return the remainder of the car for sale. It sold. and finally I refunded the agreed amount of the contract money.
If I could have done more to made this end better in this situation I would have.
I'm sorry your not happy Steve. I wish you the best. |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 11
Location: Shrewsbury, Shropshire | Mr Taylor, If you wanted to do more why didn't you just HONOUR YOUR CONTRACT, like any hald-decent businessman would have done.
You took my car, took a 25% labour charge up front, then left it untouched for months on end.....the little bit you did needs much reworking, and certainly wasn't worth the money you were paid. (remember the doors you slathered with bondo then left outside in the rain till they rusted and the bondo fell off????
Isn't it a fact that you made all your foreign customers wait years for their projects to get anywhere near showing progress?? You had my car for a few years and only did a couple of weeks work on it in all that time -- a bit of second-rate paintwork on the body that was already assembled, then did nothing else on it till you got fed up, bought a new bike and high-tailed it off into the sunset leaving your wife with a workshop full of junk and all your foreign clients totally high and dry. You just told me to haul my car and parts away, despite me being the other side of the atlantic ocean! You just tore up our contracts, offered no compensation and left several people seriously out of pocket.
What about the Christine you sent to Canada - what was the quality of workmanship on THAT?
What about the owners trailer that you damaged and never repaired?
What about the parts from my car which went missing while in your care?
What about the unrideable Harley you sent to Australia?
Did Steve make money on the sale of his car you pulled apart, or did he lose serious money after putting his trust in you?
How safe is it to leave a car in your care, hoping something driveable will come out the other end?
How seriously do you take your customers contracts?
How much of a darned coward blames his wife for messing up his business.
Have some balls and face up to your responsiblilities, or stop taking people's money and fobbing them off. |
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 131
Location: Western Australia | Thank you for your contribution Billy Whizz.
It is true that a portion of the contract was refunded....however, i had to argue that point and it was vehemently defended that it should only by 25% of the contract. I have always believed that the whole contract should be refunded as not one part of that build was ever finished.......a 100/% refund would have seen this end! Nothing about this was ever my fault....NOTHING...!!! The contract was clear, the price was clear, , Not one part of it was met by the builder. I met my obligations. and endeavored to claw as much money back as i could as fast as I could.
The sale of some of the parts to the customer in Canada was dealt with by me. Many emails back and forth. Thank you for unpacking the items that have been in your shed for years.
I will not enter into a mud slinging match over this....the facts and testimonies will speak for themselves.
There is a lot more to this and other customers stories to come to light.........
again......a 100% refund would have seen this builder receive some respect and understanding. |
|
| |
|
Account Suspended
Posts: 2827
Location: At "The Rock" in upper East Tennessee | Like you Steve I'm simply not entering into a mud slinging contest over this. Geoff you continue to not have all your facts straight and I'm not even going to try and explain them because most of them I have no idea what your talking about, other then the "coward" comment and "bondo" coment. I never blamed her fully because I allowed it happen so that's kind of a 50/50 thing (if you had lived with the woman for 12 years you would have been ready to chew your own arm off as well). I am not free of sin here. Never said I was.
The "bondo" (not actually bondo it's filler, "bondo" is a brand) was in those doors to begin with if memory serves me or perhaps you ended up with the wrong doors. there were 8 to 10 of those doors all in basically equal condition at that shop at the time. If so that was my mistake. It's been a couple of years now I simply don't remember.
The bottom line here is this. I freely admit I made a lot of huge mistakes in the management at that time. The divorce came and I had to do something.
I knew I had let both the cars referred to here sit for a great deal of time already while I turned out other cars and at the point of the split I didn't know if I was even going to have another shop.
Geoff, You and I were square on money and we didn't owe each other anything so you went with another builder. As I said then at least the car will be getting worked on. I didn't try and hang onto it "hoping" I might get another shop.
Steve, As you and I have talked about and I'm still firm in my belief that after completely disassembling one car, sandblasting the body, chassis, rebuilding and painting the chassis, disassembling a second car, prepping the underbody for paint, all the other this and that jobs that go into all that I felt I had done labor worth compensation. Therefore I was not refunding 100% of the contract.
Again, as I have said before, I made mistakes. 1. I went into this blind. I'm a firefighter/paramedic by trade just raised around cars. suddenly my hobby became a "business"
2. I didn't know how to manage a business at the time. 3. I took on jobs I wasn't prepared to do not because I was trying to rob anyone simply because I didn't know I was biting off more then I could chew. 4. I allowed outside forces to further those mistakes. 5. I didn't realize the amount of time and work that goes into one of these cars and I didn't allow for it.
The list goes on and on and I FREELY ADMIT IT!
in my defense I have no intention of "running before I walk" so to speak ever again. I am sorry that you both feel you have been treated unjustly that was NEVER my intention.
Presently I'm doing simple things like engine/tranny swaps in an early mustang, an old VW bus paint job, spot repairs, bike paint jobs, local stuff like that and I'm happy as I can be with it. I'm doing what I can do with the abilities and facilities that I have at a pace that is acceptable. I have learned from my mistakes. If you want an old school hot rod, I can do it, if you want something painted, I can do it, if you want a complete car built? Go see somebody else, i'm not your guy.
I really don't know what else to say here other then I did the best I could with a bad situation and that's all I could do.
The option of "fulfilling contracts" just wasn't there so would you rather me have kept the cars and it be another 3 or 4 years before I could get them done?
I'm sure you both will come back with some slanderous comments or whatever. Some of them may be accurate some not. Either way if that's what makes you feel better wear it out.
I think Steve said it best when he said "Do your research people". He's exactly right! I wish both of you had done that and then we wouldn't have been having this discussion. Perhaps we all would have realized at the time that I wasn't ready to take on so much at a time or that level of builds.
Mistakes were made on both sides mainly on mine.
|
|
| |
|
Elite Veteran
Posts: 792
Location: Buena Park, CA | Donnie,
Not to minimize ozysteve's or billy-wizz's complaints or anything like that, but I have to commend you for throwing yourself on the sword and fully admitting your mistakes. We all screw up, but it seems to be getting rarer and rarer that someone actually admits to it. |
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 131
Location: Western Australia | Thank you for your input DepsilonD.....but im afraid the story is somewhat more complicated than that.
If i was offered a full refund and I WASN'T I wouldn't be here posting.........but that is not the case.
I argued the point about a refund, only to have it defended. Im on the other side of the planet......a lawyer was very much on the cards, but would just cost me more money......I had little choice.
I now have some funds returned, 25%.....a 100% refund would have seen someone admit his mistakes.....otherwise, anything else is simply a cover up.
I dont expect to see any more money coming back to me, but that doesnt change the fact that regardless of hours expended, or material consumed,, the car was not built, no part of the contract was honoured, nothing was delivered and nothing was achieved.
To quote myself in my initial post referring to my business management............"20 years of honouring my contracts and fulfilling my commitments regardless of the management hours and labour hours consumed. I quote it, I accept the contract, I supply it.....PERIOD".......
This was not done by the builder.!! So why on earth should he keep any of the money.
This also goes much further with quality issues as well.........I can not comment on this directly, as I NEVER received anything from the builder, but im very aware of them and the people are in the wings.
My only mistake with this was to trust what the builder told me.........to believe the evidence he used to sell himself. Only to have this all thrown back at me later,
NONE OF THIS WAS MY FAULT.......100% of this is the fault of the builder.
Edited by ozysteve 2014-07-17 7:36 PM
|
|
| |
|
Expert 5K+
Posts: 8443
Location: Perth Australia | I think there are a lot of elements in this
I also, have to resurect dead vehicles (not restore them though), and it has to be made very clear what the customer expectations are, otherwise, there is a lot of room for mis interpretation and basically sour grapes.
It has not been said what the contract was (and, really, unless both parties agree to disclose it, it probably shouldnt), but, I can put it how I would see it.
If I comissioned someone to supply me with a car built a certain way and gave them an amount (agreed appon) and a time frame to find/supply such a vehicle, then I would expect the vehicle to be at the agreed place and time for collection, contract filled.
If they could not find or supply, then contracts not filled and a 100% refund (or really close to it) would be expected.
This is where its different
If I contracted someone to MAKE a car to the design and specifications I wanted, this is different, lots of aspects of the construction would have to be taken into account and it would be as difficult to make the contract as the car, but, I think that it would be fair if whoever was contracted to build the car coulndt complete the contract, there should be an agreed, pro rata amount paid for work performed.
What I mean by that is 25% done =75% refund ect and of coarse all parts ect still being retained by the owner of the contract, so that what is there can be sold to re coup as much as possible from the sale or move it all on to another builder.
If an agreed estimate of completion couldnt be reached, then a 3rd party should be bought in to make that call.
I would expect that a builder supplying the base car would have the experiance to be able to say wether a car was a suitable candidate or not after a reasonable inspection, the car part is hard though as we are talking about 50 year old cars and none of them are really going to be factory fresh and the purchase price of the base vehicle is a cost that takes away from the money left to finish the project, but if unsuitable, can be re sold/ returned? or costs modified to account for extra work needed
To be honest, the piles of stuff I saw in the pictures did not constitute a car anywhere near completed and if it was a completed car contract, to me, it looked at best 25%.
A car with the roof cut off is not a car.
I personally put my dodge at 75%, looks like a car, just needs a bit more and its driveable.
I also understand the paying up front (although,its risky), with the exchange rate as it was between AU and USD, the costs can vary wildly, from 80c in the $ to +10c in the $, basically 30%.
A lot of cars and parts would have shifted out of the US to other countries while the US $ was so weak and if I had the available money, I would have been shipping as many cars here as I could to store untill the AU$ was back under 90c.
Marriage breakup asside (I have had 1 of those as well), responcibilities are responcibilities and if the contract could not be fulfilled, then it cant, but you must accept the concequences.
The contractor, in good faith, paid the money
The contractee, in good faith, started to build a car incuring costs
The contractee, never completed or was unable to complete the contract, so a certain percentage of funds should be returned to the contractor and all the stuff pertaining to the car, so it can be sold or completed elswhere
The contractee, is intitled to a percentage of the funds for work performed to the percentage of the work that was performed
This is how I see it but I aint a lawyer.
I must also say, that with the pictures and comments I saw about the builder in posts from a few years back, I wouldnt have thought twice about using him as well, looked like good work and an upstanding man
Edited by ttotired 2014-07-17 8:31 PM
|
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 131
Location: Western Australia | thanks Tim, ,
this is why I say I dont expect a full refund, , or indeed any more money at all back. I know this. I also accept work was performed.
The builder made his skills and experience very public, anyone....and I mean anyone, would have thought this is a good builder to use. I did, many others did as well.
All that i freely accept,,
Exchange rate benefits both ways (+/-), and are a consequence of doing business. this is irrelevant.
The contract was for a built frame off restoration. A contract drawn up by the builder, with set time frames and milestones.....ALL I MET!! to my advantage with the exchange rates.
The long and short of this is integrity and fairness........Did a car get built, , NO.
Did I accept a 25% refund-YES (to claw back some money)
Is a 25% refund fair-NO
The builder, during the negotiations and initial onset of the contract made very clear overtures and statements regarding, mate-ship, friendship, Brotherhood, fellow enthusiast.....
Now, in the cold light of day.........Where is that mate-ship, Friendship and brotherhood now.
If im being expected to be fair and equitable, then the builder should be expected to take some of this on the financial chin........25 % Never cut it, but was at least something back...who wouldnt take it.
|
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 188
| Do you mean that you lost 75% of the money you paid for labour for the frame off restoration. |
|
| |
|
Elite Veteran
Posts: 792
Location: Buena Park, CA | ozysteve,
My apologies if you misunderstood what I was saying, I probably should have just kept my dumb opinions to myself. From what I have read, you got totally screwed out of your dream and a decent amount of cash. (I am a Lawyer) I feel really bad for you, and in all reality, your dream became a nightmare. Nothing is really going to ever be able to correct that now. My only point was that people (Donnie) admitting that they got in over their heads and that they are at fault is something that is vanishing from American culture. Don't know if it is the same in AU, but I hope not. Most people here just run and hide.
Dave |
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 131
Location: Western Australia | Peter Panov.......That is correct, , although it is maintained that work was performed,, none of that work ever made it into a completed vehicle. I never saw a finished car. And as I say, i took 25% offered to me, to claw back money.....
DepsilobD.......please dont apologize, all good mate,, I appreciate your comments and now I understand them better. I wonder if the Builder is prepared to accept that he has failed to meet the contract and refund everything......but i wont hold my breath. There has been a lot of running and hiding, years of it....and years of waiting for this to be resolved. I must offer this as an opinion though, ,I wonder if the builder would have put his hand up if this thread had not been started. |
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 131
Location: Western Australia | Back to my original point......If you are wishing to have a car built, please do your research. May I suggest you read the forums that cover what ever type of build you intend, be it, original restoration or a Christine build. There are builder of cars out there that do great work and can verify this with customer testimonies and there are customer out there that may not be able too.
I know of reports and examples of work that can only be described as amateur and of sub standard and dangerous and im also aware of work that is of a very high standard.
Check the forums guys , I would hate for someone to go through the expensive exercise that I have been through, for no result!!! |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1324
Location: Hickory, NC | So has this car sold? Or is still for sale? |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 11
Location: Shrewsbury, Shropshire | What the members reading this thread are not aware of is the huge history of self-promotion Mr Taylor perpetuated to attract customers. He set up Plymouth Rock Restorations with a web forum which was effectively a promotional device for his business. On that site he made numerous, NUMEROUS claims and boasts about his technical abilities, offering total rebuilds with huge confidence. He even made youtube videos to promote his expertise and services. He made every effort to promote himself as a highly skilled and competent car builder. He attracted lots of business and was never backward in posting boasts about the terrific jobs he had completed.
He also entered into formal contracts with his customers - detailed written and signed contracts!!! He offered discounted prices to club members and was happy to take cash up front. Only once the cars and cash were in his hands did he suddenly stop delivering. A twelve month build ran on into years and we got stalled with excuses and evasions. The only efforts that did seem to proceed in his workshop were for local customers, (or I suspect, customers who could actually turn up on his doorstep and tug his collar).
Now we get crocodile tears and bleats about his divorce to solicit sympathy from the casual reader. Bear in mind fellas, I have had long conversations with his ex-wife before the divorce......This guy was already seeing another woman behind his wife's back! He spent customers money buying himself a motorbike and would ride it around his local countryside rather than getting down to work in his workshop. Then when she found out and the customers started to get disgruntled he just cut and ran, leaving his wife with a yard full of car wrecks and telling us to come and collect our junk. "I want nothing more to do with those god-forsaken 58's" he told me. I still have the text from him saved on my mobile phone and will happily show it anyone concerned.
Bearing in mind most of the customers he ripped off were from overseas, he knew he had us over a barrel. He made no gesture towards formal rectification of my contract. I only escaped because a couple of friends offered to collect the stuff for me. No shipping company wanted to handle a pile of car parts, nor were any shipping agents prepared to visit a site which turned out to be NOT a legitimate business. (He never told us "Plymouth Rock Restorations" was not ac legitimate accredited business, despite what he led us to believe.
Now to the subject of filler on my car. I have photos of my car at his workshop on the day of deliver. There is NO FILLER on the doors. I also have photos of the doors on the day they were finally extricated from his clutches....the skins were laden with filler then the bare, stripped metal doors were left outside against the wall of his workshop, evidently for several months, maybe years because the doors had gone so rusty that his filler patches had fallen off. By the way, I DO know the difference between the words Bondo and filler.
Now to the nature of the customers he seems to want to dupe and patronise: I know several of them and they are business men of great decency and integrity. For my part I am a Chartered Architect who has run his own practice for over 20 years. When I enter into a contract with a customer I fullfil it AT ALL COSTS!!! That is called PROFESSIONAL INTEGRITY! If I offer a service at a fixed fee, then I deliver, with good faith. If I made a mistake in my fee charges I stick to the bargain - it was my gamble, so I should deliver as promised. It is what every decent business man should do. If I struggle to get a contract completed then it's up to me to buy the services in that are needed to meet my obligations. I can't give someone a half-knackered building then shirk all liability.
What Mr Taylor does not want to remember/admit is that several customers expressed a wish to have a Christine built and it was HE who approached them to offer to fulfil their dream. He told me where to find a donor car, put me in touch with the owner and solicited the project from me by OFFERING to do the work...and offering the price at which he would complete it. To solicit a contract then not fulfil it is active fraud!
My car is now being completed elsewhere. It cost me alot of unforeseen expense to have the car taken elsewhere.All of the work Mr Taylor did needs to be refone because the standard is attrocious. He "lost" quite a few rare parts, some quite valuable...for which I will have to spend several hundreds of dollars and much effort to find replacements. It hurts to see his boasta about his huge stock of Plymouth parts for sale when so mine went "missing"....you draw your own conclusions. |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 11
Location: Shrewsbury, Shropshire | I think anyone interested in the truth behind Mr Taylor's persistent lies might like to look at, like and join this Facebook community:
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Team-Taylor-Restorations-The-Horrible...
|
|
| |
|
Elite Veteran
Posts: 967
Location: Canada | This is some bad sh*t here....... |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 11
Location: Shrewsbury, Shropshire | This is after six years of misrepresentation and frustration from Mr Taylor, who pretended to be a legitimate restoration business, initially called "Plymouth Rock Restorations", now pretending to be a "Team" of builders called "Team Taylor Restorations"
Like most dodgy back-street dealers this guy thinks a change of name will distance him from misdemeanours of the past. But he's up to the same tricks.....makes MLC look like a "Team" of saints. |
|
| |
|
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 566
Location: Wichita, Kansas | 'Christine' claims another one. Man, is it just me or does anything related to 'Christine' just turn to crap or what. That movie and car just has a black cloud over it. I remember when two Christine-related clubs got into a pissing match with each other and stunk up this site something bad a few years ago (which is why I left for over two years). Thank god King did not use a 59 Dodge for the book/movie, it'd ruin that car for me.
|
|
| |
|
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 505
Location: Buffalo, NY | It's not just you Matt. I was thinking the very same thing when I came across this thread. I knew there were delays but had no idea it would get this bad. The sad part is that if it is indeed true...(being that the restorer has refused to try and find a mutually agreeable solution) then we all pay the price. A very large group of Christine enthusiasts put their faith in this person to do the right thing and lead the Christine hobby into a bright and prosperous future six or seven years ago. He and I were at the center of an all out war which resulted in the split of the Christine Car Club. As you know the fighting went on for years and often spilled onto this forum. For my part and involvement I apologize to you and everyone else here affected by it. I can assure you that I will take no part in that here ever again.
As co-founder and President of the club I absolutely refused to accept his leadership as I felt the club would become nothing more than a billboard for the now defunct "Plymouth Rock Restorations" and just couldn't let it go. Is this a shameless "pat on the back"? No way. If I was so sharp and dialed in I would have seen the MLC debocle coming which wreaked havoc on our club and several members on my watch. It cost people thousands and some just gave up and abandoned the hobby completely never to be heard from again. I sincerely hope that this situation does not result in the same thing. I would hate to see questionable parts on ebay again etc as I know what it feels like to see a part for sale your 99% sure belongs to you. That sickening feeling knowing your powerless to do anything isn't something I'd wish on anyone.
I distinctly recall several good hearted folks starting a fund raiser and soliciting donations here to help when this shop burned down. Do I think it was a mistake? Of course not. People shined and did everything they could to help. This is what a club and forum or common interest community is all about. What troubles me the most is the recent "downfall" of a few people in the hobby which have been long regarded as upstanding long term comrades with our best interests at heart. We need to stop putting individuals on pedestals and find a way to alert each other across the forums to concerns that likely require immediate scrutiny. Apparently "Vendor Feedback" sections aren't getting the point across. The phenomenon we encountered with MLC was the customers tendency to remain silent after they became suspicious. You can't blame them as they wanted to keep faith in the hopes that not antagonizing the business would result in them receiving their moneys worth. I don't think that was a common thing that may have gone on in this instance but I am beginning to see similarities that suggest otherwise. To all those affected...Steve, DVJohn, Billy-Whiz etc I am very sorry. If I or the club can be of any help going forward please let me know.
|
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 131
Location: Western Australia | thank you all for your contributions. I feel quiet angry to know that this guy is benefiting from your charitable actions, well intentioned and good hearted as they were. He is using those tools to make money......yet here I sit,
It has to be said he did refund me $2500 of a $10k contract, ,making claims and vehemently defending the work he had done should be paid for,,,, I had no choice but to take this money, , because arguing more, would have seen it take to legal action, money i just didnt want to spend. Please keep in mind, this all came to a head as I was dealing with my wife being diagnosed with Breast Cancer.
As I see it and will always see it until my last breath....he did NOT finish anything on the car.....nothing made it out of his shop. Why on this earth should he be paid for anything. Thats not how the world works. I run a business and know how it works..........
My biggest mistake was to trust him.........and the point of this whole excersise is to highlight this to the hobby and endeavour to help others avoid the trap set that I and my good friends fell into.
This is not about clubs and differences between views on how they should be handled, the last thing I need to hear is "told you so" But the facts are the facts......This builder failed in all aspects of his business, management of his business, his skill level and ability to complete a build to an acceptable and roadworthy standard, his integrity and all else you would expect from someone you place your trust in to supply a product.
He can refer to me as a hater, which he has, , but im not a hater......im a very disgruntled customer as are a lot of his international clients. I would strongly expect not one of the current jobs being worked on (with your tools by the way) are being done for anyone outside TN.
I would also like to add, at the very beginning of my contract, I, along with most everyone else sucked in by this guy, were very much under the impressions that this guy ran a registered business in TN. He did not. As soon as it all came to a head, ,, i was thrown the line, , "im not a business, no one ever checked".....leaving us nothing.......
I pondered my next course of action, should I go legal, , should i.......I have even considered placing a caveat on his property...that darn Harley for one....or his workshop equipment. But all this would do is cost me more money....dealing with my wifes illness put this all in perspective....I took is f'in 25% and ran........but do not and will not ever accept this is fair.
I do thank you gents for your support, for all you have contributed here, and I hope with the permission of the mods and admins, that we can keep this thread alive for as long as it takes to make people aware of how this particular business operates.
AND:- IF YOU EVER READ THIS MR TAYLOR.....YOU HAVE MY ACCOUNT DETAILS.....REFUND MY MONEY AND I GO AWAY!!!!! PERIOD
|
|
| |
|
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 500
Location: Upper East Tennessee | Okay, since I have purchased this 58 Plymouth project and I am also a former victim I think I might need to chime in on this thread. If not familiar, here is my project...and I've really not commented much about it...just quietly getting it restored correctly.
http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=28313&...
First off. I was out $4600 for the work done on my DeSoto. I only had the body work done...no motor, no frame, no drivetrain,...etc ...only body work and paint...and it was only the cab that got painted...no fenders, trunk, or hood...because after getting the body cab back I didn't finish out the rest with him which would have been an additional $2200....for a grand total of $6800. Even though mine was only the body $6800 seemed very cheap for the work I thought needed done. It was a HUGE red flag...but I went ahead against my better judgement. When I received the finished product it was a gamble I lost. I'm out $4600 and have had to get everything undone...then redone. I'm expecting to get this done correctly just for the body and paint (nothing else) I will have at least $13K in additional investment which in my mind is more realistic for the work that needed done originally. $4600 is wasted...I took my lesson...put it all behind me...now moving forward.
Seems to me expecting a show car restoration scope project for $10K would likewise be a red flag.
I'm not defending what was done (or not done in this case) by Mr. Taylor but I think he got in way over his head. He was turning out driver quality products which would eventually fall apart and/or need re-done later. He may not have gotten your car finished but he did some work on it. I'm still scratching my head as to the order of the plan on this one. Had he finished, you would have gotten something in need of much more $$$ to get corrected...even after going through the $10K contract money. It may have had a great body but I will bet the farm the top grafting work would be faulty...glass not fitting...leaks...weld breaks...etc. The body is already sprung because there was no bracing added before the previous top was cut off and will require meticulous alignment work when welding the hardtop on.
Losing $7500 sucks. I don't know how to make that loss feel better. For me I compared it to a stock market loss...picked up whatever pieces were left...moved on...feel much better.
...just my 2 cents.
|
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 131
Location: Western Australia | yes Tim,, I know you are right,, this is why I have written off any hope of seeing any money back.....
Can I also say that when i quizzed him at the start, why so cheap.......the answer was, he was looking for a friend as well as a customer,, turns out that was a crock of !!!!!
Hindsight is a wonderful thing though.......
Edited by ozysteve 2014-07-26 3:23 AM
|
|
| |
|
Expert 5K+
Posts: 8443
Location: Perth Australia | So, the question is, tnlowrider, are you planning on trying to finish the car?
I think it would be a bit of a Cinderella story (for the car) if this happened
I think I would be wanting to re body the car though as most people wouldnt have the jigging frame and the skills to use one to pull and stretch the body back into line as well as then getting the roof right, although, its not a bad candidate for a top chop now (like that 61 plymouth) for the adventurous.
Just kind of wonder if its worth the effort though, when another body would be easier (and probably cheaper) to put on that frame and engine combo
|
|
| |
|
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 500
Location: Upper East Tennessee | ttotired - 2014-07-26 6:10 AM
So, the question is, tnlowrider, are you planning on trying to finish the car?
I think it would be a bit of a Cinderella story (for the car) if this happened
I think I would be wanting to re body the car though as most people wouldnt have the jigging frame and the skills to use one to pull and stretch the body back into line as well as then getting the roof right, although, its not a bad candidate for a top chop now (like that 61 plymouth) for the adventurous.
Just kind of wonder if its worth the effort though, when another body would be easier (and probably cheaper) to put on that frame and engine combo
The best thing about this car is the AMAZING body! I plan to get the roof work completed and I'm not sure where I'll go from there. I know 2 people who are more than capable of getting it welded together such that everything lines up. |
|
| |
|
Expert 5K+
Posts: 7806
Location: Williams California | Tim-
If you would like to borrow my door opening braces to fit your roof properly, let me know. They bolt into the front hinge pockets, and the striker plate brace, so you'd have the proper width.
---John |
|
| |
|
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 500
Location: Upper East Tennessee | Thanks John. I appreciate the offer and may take you up on it. It's nice to know I have options and very generous of you to offer this up. It will be a long road for this car as I think grafting the top back onto the body will be a fairly nasty job. As you know, the body is wonderful on it ...original paint...99% rust free (only saw rust in one frame mount)...VERY FEW dents/dings.
|
|
| |
|
Expert 5K+
Posts: 8443
Location: Perth Australia | So its going to be fixed
Thats cool, I hope we get to see it happening (build thread)
|
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 131
Location: Western Australia | im glad too......I do wish you the very best for it Tim,,and will be forever grateful for us being able to strike a deal. Its just a shame that its all gone sour for me........
if you do build a thread, would you mind starting a fresh one.............
thanks |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 11
Location: Shrewsbury, Shropshire | The Facebook page dedicated to exposing this criminality "Team Taylor Restorations - The Horrible Truth" is getting a lot of attention, lots of photo likes and a few interesting PM's to me. If anyone in Tennessee has been the victim of one of Mr Taylor's flawed builds or un=fulfilled contracts and wishes to discuss ways of seeking formal recompense, please contact me directly. |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 29
Location: South Easton & Cape Cod, MA | Sorry to see all of this. We have a '57 Savoy in need of a coat of GREEN paint. Jane & I were disappointed when Plymouth Rock closed it's doors.
We recently bought a retirement home in Dandridge Tn. and were pleased to see Donnie open shop in nearby Morristown.
Luckily my next door neighbor in Dandridge, is a MoPar fan, and has a body shop.
Has has some Forward Look cars, and was just wet sanding his '55 or '56 Desoto when We were down there in June |
|
| |
58 Plymouth "Christine" Project
