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318 Poly head problem??? Jump to page : 1 Now viewing page 1 [50 messages per page] | View previous thread :: View next thread |
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mopower |
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Member Posts: 15 | Hi Fl Folks. I fitted a pair of 318 Poly heads onto my Stroker 402 Poly block, fitted perfectly! Then the last job before start up was 'FLUIDS'. Disaster!!! the water could be heard running into the valley of the engine? What is going on here? Removal of the intake manifold confirms the terrible scene of water and oil mixing on the camshaft! Are there different 318 Poly haeds??? Casting numbers confirm these are 318 59-66 Poly heads. Head gaskets say 58-66 model years Have they been modified, have I done something wrong in assembly? All in all a rather large kick in the 'lower regions'. Any help appreciated John | ||
60 dart |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 8947 Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | is the intake a weiand and does it have a plug under the thermostat in the bottom of intake -----------------------------------------------later | ||
mopower |
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Member Posts: 15 | Hi Again, Removed the intake manifold and you can see the water has run out from under the head at the gasket level? If you feel under the head overhang the gasket sticks out in a few places. Seems there are some tiny holes in the head that don't line up with the block deck surface. When you fill the head from the large manifold water inlets it runs down the valley onto the lifters??? Anyone experienced this before? Thanx from John | ||
grunau |
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Extreme Veteran Posts: 444 Location: North of the 49th | Hi I've rebuilt a number of Polys in the '57 to '66 range never a problem. One engine had coolant in the crankcase due to a warped head, during the rebuild it was resurfaced , after assembly no problem that was the '66 engine. This might sound like a stupid question but do you have the correct head gaskets?? I've had trouble getting the correct overhaul gasket set a few times as the parts guys bring in sets for the "LA "318" , they have no idea what a Polysphere 318 is and its like they hear only "318" and not the year... | ||
GaryS |
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Expert Posts: 1207 Location: Ponder, TX | Were the heads milled? If so, were the intake faces milled to match per the factory recommendations? | ||
60 dart |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 8947 Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | post some photos mating surfaces and gaskets power . when you fill an "empty" motor with coolant you're gonna hear water running through the water jacket , even with my hearing . now , if you didn't empty the block by the drains holes on both sides , when you pull the heads you're going to get coolant running out of the intake and the block . any coolant that is left in is going to come out and onto the inside of your motor and i'm going to tell you i've done it more than once being in a hurry . drain the oil pan see how much water is in there . i'm guessing not very much ---------------------------------------------------------later | ||
mopower |
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Member Posts: 15 | How's about this FL Folks Pre 62 heads are different due to the pre 62 blocks are cast differently! They have an extra set of water holes drilled in the upper side of the head These correspond to a row of upper water jacket holes in the early casting blocks! Found a thread from 'Gary Pavlovich' about the pronblem. Seems you can put any or all 318 Poly heads onto all 59-62 blocks, BUT, not early heads on the 62-66 blocks!!! Maybe only 'Gary' has noticed this alarming problem? Surely other Folks have done this before with catastrophic results??? John at Mopower Big problem as these heads have been retro fitted with 2.02 Chevy valves and pro-ported at great expense DOH!!! | ||
Mopar1 |
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Expert Posts: 3027 Location: N.W. Fla. | mopower - 2014-08-03 3:28 AM If they "don't work" there must be changes other than deleting holes in the block, did they remove area from the block opposite the holes so it pours in? 59? 318 came out in '57.How's about this FL Folks Pre 62 heads are different due to the pre 62 blocks are cast differently! They have an extra set of water holes drilled in the upper side of the head These correspond to a row of upper water jacket holes in the early casting blocks! Found a thread from 'Gary Pavlovich' about the pronblem. Seems you can put any or all 318 Poly heads onto all 59-62 blocks, BUT, not early heads on the 62-66 blocks!!! Maybe only 'Gary' has noticed this alarming problem? Surely other Folks have done this before with catastrophic results??? John at Mopower Big problem as these heads have been retro fitted with 2.02 Chevy valves and pro-ported at great expense DOH!!! Edited by Mopar1 2014-08-03 8:51 AM | ||
60 dart |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 8947 Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | i must be too far back in the woods . never heard of the interchange problem till now . ----------------------------------------------later | ||
Handygun |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 1117 Location: STL, MO | Yup different heads on the earlier 318, It seems it might be cheaper to use an earlier block if you still have access to it but don't know if you can run the later water pump on one. Mixmatching parts can be heartbreaking, or as Uncle Walt used to say been there done that............. | ||
60 dart |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 8947 Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | sure would like to see em side by side . not to mention internet info aint always right ----------------------------------------------------later | ||
ttotired |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 8443 Location: Perth Australia | You can use LA timing cover and water pump on poly engines, the timing cover is missing 1 bolt hole and its casting does not cover the hole in the block I made a plug for it using an apropriate bolt, the other thing is the LA engine is timed on the other side of the engine, so you have to either re mark your crank pulley, or put the poly timing bracket on I havnt heard of the different heads either? Dont feel bad about falling into that trap, I would have been there with you | ||
mopower |
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Member Posts: 15 | Poly 318 heads from 59 are cast the same and look identical through to 66, with same casting numbers. Different part number on the early heads which probably denotes the differance? The differance being the extra row of drilled water holes for the matching pre 62 blocks! The pre 58 Poly heads are TOTALLY different and are very obviously not interchangeable. A lesson learnt indeed. Couldn't find this info anywhere on the INTERWEB??? 1965 Poly block is sonic tested and bored to +90 as per Gary Pavlovich instructions. I also fitted Mopar Performance '340' 4-bolt main-caps and line bored. Doing all this work again on a pre 62 block is not viable. Looks like the drill and plug method will save the day methinks. Strangely enough the earlier 318 Poly heads were better cast and ported real nice! The 65 head castings were rough and severely hampered on the exhaust ports. Live and Learn from John Edited by mopower 2014-08-04 2:58 PM | ||
60 dart |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 8947 Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | if i read your opening post correctly , you have everything matched correctly . but , even if there are extra holes , when all the faces meet with the head gaskets and torqued in placed , all points on both faces are sealed . seems to me the said differences would create a cooling problem , not a leak problem ----------------------------------------------------------later | ||
Mopar1 |
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Expert Posts: 3027 Location: N.W. Fla. | Hadn't heard of any interchange problems with "A" Poly heads, but if Palovich says there is there is. The hole problem kinda sounds like the lack of holes in the Chevy 400 vs the other SBCs | ||
60 dart |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 8947 Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | you could send gary an email and ask him to explain it directly to you , plus ask if there is any way water could be getting to the inside of motor if the heads were mismatched . -----------------------------later glpavlovich@cox.net | ||
wayfarer |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 888 Location: Peoples Republic of Oregon | ...some photos would be good... . | ||
mopower |
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Member Posts: 15 | Sorry Guys, Can't do any pics at the moment. The problem isn't actually the heads, its more the block. The casting is different where the heads bolt on. The block has extra metal above the lifter bores in line with the center of the bores. There is a row of four small water holes that correspond with the extra holes drilled into the earlier heads. The 63-66 blocks are missing this top row of casting lugs and therefore expose the head water holes. If you look at all the 59 to 66 gaskets the holes are there for the early head/block combo. As the later heads don't have the holes then the water can't flow through these holes (of course) because they aren't there! I don't have a pre 62 Poly block anyways to take pics of, my block is a 65. I you lay the 'one size fits all' head gaskets on any later Poly block you will instantly see the problem. Clear as mud. The rule of thumb is, 'DON'T MIX AND MATCH 318 POLY HEADS' lol. Keep the Faith from John Edited by mopower 2014-08-05 3:34 PM | ||
60 dart |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 8947 Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | so you're saying pre-63's have a row of 4 water galleries (holes) on the inner edge of the head /bock mating surface ? ---------------------------------------later | ||
60 dart |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 8947 Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | you are right . after lookin and lookin plus lookin at a spare 60 block , there are 4 water passages not on the newer 318 poly . but still in all the yrs. i've messed with these motors , i've never heard of a water leak problem because of mismatched heads . i , myself have never owned one newer than 61 , so i guess i didn't need to know -------------------------------------------------later | ||
VAN HELSING |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 982 Location: Upper Hunter NSW Australia | ......... Thanks John for that information, unfortunately for you it's been a bit frustrating, expensive and time consuming but at least now you've got to the bottom of it along with Gary's help. At least now other's can also take an easier path when it comes to interchanging Poly engine parts by taking your findings into practice . I've got some spare A Poly heads here and a '63 spare block so I'll check 'em out tonight as well. ........ | ||
mopower |
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Member Posts: 15 | Never say Never when it comes to early Mopars! Now I'm two minds whether to fit Hemi heads to my 270 Poly??? Best leave well alone after all my Poly problems LoL. John at Mopower. Always 'Looking Forward' to my next engine build. Edited by mopower 2014-08-06 2:23 PM | ||
Mopar1 |
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Expert Posts: 3027 Location: N.W. Fla. | mopower - 2014-08-06 1:22 PM To convert to hemi you need hemi pistons, ex mans, & push rods besides the head assymblies. Any of the Dodge heads will work, 241, 270, 315 & 325. The 315/325 heads have bigger ports & valves.Never say Never when it comes to early Mopars! Now I'm two minds whether to fit Hemi heads to my 270 Poly??? Best leave well alone after all my Poly problems LoL. John at Mopower. Always 'Looking Forward' to my next engine build. | ||
mopower |
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Member Posts: 15 | Many thanx Mopar1. If a set of big valve 315/325 hemi heads come my way fairly cheaply I may go that route. Best wishes from John | ||
Mopar1 |
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Expert Posts: 3027 Location: N.W. Fla. | The intakes interchange between low deck Dodges, Poly & Hemi, so any of the 2x4, 4X2, 3X2 will work on your Poly. | ||
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