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Location: Valley Forge, Pa. | My garage that does all my work just called and says they destroyed an axel trying to removed it. He said it split or something where the puller presses against it. I work 3rd shift and 5 minutes ago they woke me up from a deep sleep and asked me what I would like to do. They said they can put it back together but it is undrivable at this point. I don't know anything about these rears. What years are interchangable and availability of axles. I'm sorry but i am half asleep and in a panic, Where can i find an axle? What is the correct size? There is a guy on ebay with a pair for a 60 Dodge but he says they are only 27 1/2". I can't find axles for a PP2 in my parts book but I am guessing it is the same as the PD2 at 31 5/8"?
Any quick answers would be greatly appreciated.
karl. |
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Location: Williams California | I have replacement axles in good condition, it sounds like the shop missed the important step of threading the axle nut flush with the axle end before tightening down the puller.
---John |
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Location: ALABAMA, HEART OF DIXIE | udoittwo - 2014-09-15 4:10 PM My garage that does all my work just called and says they destroyed an axel trying to removed it. He said it split or something where the puller presses against it. I work 3rd shift and 5 minutes ago they woke me up from a deep sleep and asked me what I would like to do. They said they can put it back together but it is undrivable at this point. I don't know anything about these rears. What years are interchangable and availability of axles. I'm sorry but i am half asleep and in a panic, Where can i find an axle? What is the correct size? There is a guy on ebay with a pair for a 60 Dodge but he says they are only 27 1/2". I can't find axles for a PP2 in my parts book but I am guessing it is the same as the PD2 at 31 5/8"? Any quick answers would be greatly appreciated. karl.
Sounds like a perfecr excuse to find and install a complete rear axle from a 66-68 C body. No more future axle/brake problems. It's a straight up swap. |
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Location: Valley Forge, Pa. | I have thought about it. What does a complete rear roughly go for. I am guessing that it should be rebuilt also, which cost a bit.
I've read that then the person that does this would switch to the rear parking brakes. Can't the driveshaft style still work? |
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Expert 5K+
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Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | you can use the oem parking brake and drive shaft . just get the correct length rear assembly as the most important factor . depending on what you want or need the cost can vary greatly . if you stick with
a cruiser gear setup , the cost can be kept way down . the best way i found to do it is piece by piece but only if you have time to do so , rebuild as you go . you might find one for a couple hundred , in great
condition . --------------------------------------------------later |
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Location: ALABAMA, HEART OF DIXIE | udoittwo - 2014-09-16 10:54 AM I have thought about it. What does a complete rear roughly go for. I am guessing that it should be rebuilt also, which cost a bit. I've read that then the person that does this would switch to the rear parking brakes. Can't the driveshaft style still work?
I found a complete drum to drum, (even had all new brake parts), out of a 68 Chrysler Newport for $100.00, and was able to use it as is. There were no signs of axle or pinion seal leaks, which is a good sign the bearings are OK. It even had the same 2:92 gear ratio as my 61 Fury. Speedo is dead on. I cleaned it up, replaced all the brake lines, (just because I could), topped off the diff gear lube and installed it in a couple of hours
The trans mounted brake can be retained, or you have the option of using the rear axle emergency brake.
Now I can get parts anywhere if I need them, and don't need any special tools or pullers to work on it. I would recommend using new "U" bolts and nuts. It just makes it so much easier. Go to the FCBO site, ( http://www.forcbodiesonly.com/mopar-forum/forum.php) and ask around. Several of the guys there have parts cars and you may fine one near you.
Edited by rockerarm 2014-09-16 11:54 PM
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Get one of John's axles and be good to go.
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Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | ahhh don't think it'll be that easy considering the old axle is screwed and still in the housing ----------------------------------------------later |
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Location: Valley Forge, Pa. | Apparently the shop said the axle ends are hammered to the point the cotter pin hole is ovaled and the nut barely fits on. They have been beating on them with the correct puller but they are fairly sure the axles will be trash when they are done.
Hopefully I have some replacement axles but I was wondering, is there ANYTHING I can do to make them easier to remove the next time? They suggested removing them once a year. Does that actually help? They suggested never-seize but as discussed here, that is wrong. They said if I don't beat it or race, the never-seize would be OK? Does taking some fine emery and polising the surfaces make it easier to remove or would it hold even better? |
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Location: Eastern Iowa | The nut should remain on the shaft when pulling the drums to prevent this from happening!
Sounds like your shop has no clue as to what they are doing. This is sounding like a disaster in the making.
How many left hand lug nuts did they bust taking the wheels off??
Aren't old MoPars fun??!!
Edited by finsruskw 2014-09-17 8:39 AM
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Location: ALABAMA, HEART OF DIXIE | finsruskw - 2014-09-17 8:31 AM The nut should remain on the shaft when pulling the drums to prevent this from happening! Sounds like your shop has no clue as to what they are doing. This is sounding like a disaster in the making. How many left hand lug nuts did they bust taking the wheels off?? Aren't old MoPars fun??!!
Sounds that way to me too ...... they screwed up ....!!!!!. The service manual suggests applying "chauk" to the tapers when reinstalling. BUT ...... for the life of me, I don't know why one would even concider using a pre 1965 axle assy. Mopar changed for a reason .....! Any your experiencing it now.
Brakes ....... for example, Replacing the return springs is recommended. You can buy all the parts for a post 65 brake system for the cost of those springs. A complete axle assy change over is the most logical answer, you won't regret it. 65 - 68 Cbocy bolts right in, And you can almost pick them off a tree. |
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Location: Valley Forge, Pa. | I've tried to follow some of the conversations here on the conversion but it allways takes off different directions and how this person tried this or that, so I would get to the point that there seemed to be way to much involved and I looked no further.
From someone that made the exchange, can you give me the actual info?
Exactally what year and models are direct interchanges with a standard 1960 Plymouth rear? Is it really a direct interchange that[not including installing new parts] all I would need to do is unbolt the drive shaft, the shccks, brake lines and springs, drop the rear and do then simply reverse the procedure and I am up and running? I mean, I could have a rear on the floor in less than an hour, so from running to running, if I had a totally redone drum to drum rear and staying with the drive shaft parking brake, I could be driving in less than 2 hours? Any alterations to the drive shaft length? U-joint the same, ect.?
I would seriously look into it IF it is really that easy. Just seems like any time I try something that is "easy" there is allways the "oops I forget you have to do this or that" then it turns into a nightmare that goes on and on.
For some building their car over a long period is just part of the fun, but my fun is driving my car every sunny day and to have it tied up for a month trying to find or make some special bracket or part keeps me from doing such projects. |
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Location: ALABAMA, HEART OF DIXIE | udoitt Is it really a direct interchange that[not including installing new parts] all I would need to do is unbolt the drive shaft, the shccks, brake lines and springs, drop the rear and do then simply reverse the procedure and I am up and running? I mean,QUOTE] Apparently you haven't read the above monologs. IN short ........ I have done this upgrade on my 61 Fury ....... and YES ........ It is a direct chang over. Go back and read the details. Will.
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Location: NorCal | rockerarm - 2014-09-17 7:00 AM
65 - 68 Cbocy bolts right in, And you can almost pick them off a tree
They do bolt right in but '65-'67 is narrower in overall width than '68-'70 and both are narrower than the original FL .
'57-'61= 60 7/8"
'65-'67= 59 1/2"
'68-'70= 60 1/8"
This affects nothing but tire/wheel fitment.
"Picking them off a tree" is a regional thing, darned scarce around here. |
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Location: McComb, Mississippi | Just get the axle shaft. |
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Location: Hayward, Calif | I picked up a complete axel ass'y, drum to drum at a local auto salvage yard. It was in a 68 Fury II. I'm putting it in a 59 Dodge. I worked on these cars back in early 60's and I refuse to deal with tapered axels. There are so many plus's to making this swap. Easy to work on and parts availability. And no one will ever know the difference. Just my 2 cents worth. Jerry |
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Location: Valley Forge, Pa. | John's sending me a couple axles. I now believe I have all the right parts to do them correctly but I think I am going to look around for a later style set-up anyway. I'm really tired of battleing or paying aomeone else to do battle with them. I think I will do like Chuck says and build a rear over time so that the next time this becomes an issue I can swap it out and I'm fairly confident, there will be a next time. I went over the original rear[bearings and all] a few years back so I figure as long as I button it all up well, I can long term store it and I will still have the correct rear to go with it in the event that someone in the future will want it back under the car.
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Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | If the job is done correctly, next time could be in 50 years from now 
If you separate the drums from the hubs, then you get fast acess to your rear brakes and dont have t modify anything. The studs shall be pressed out approximately 1/8" with a piece of tube that support the hub area around the stud - thereafter the drum can easily be pulled off - the holes in the drum might be needing some grinding for to be fully round, as well as the studs if you would like to use the old ones (just press them back in fully. |
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Location: Valley Forge, Pa. | It's been a long time but I remember something like that on one of my cars that the wheel loosened and messed up the studs. The studs were pressed through the hub, The drum is slid down over the studs. The studs, at the base, had a slightly larger shoulder sticking through the drum a little. They pressed the new studs in, placed on the drum and then took something just large enough to slide down the stud and rest on the protruding shoulder. The shoulder was pressed down until it made a collar to pinch the drum to the hub. Now, I would just press the studs out enough to shear off the collar, press the studs back in and it leaves the drum free of the hub?
So, as long as I don't need to service the rear or axle bearings again, I should have no problem getting to the brakes. IF I am understanding this correctly and IF that is all there is to it, why wouldn't everyone do this? Are any safety concerns, maybe not for the 200 miles a year show car but for me that averages 8000 a year?
wizard - 2014-09-19 9:11 AM
If the job is done correctly, next time could be in 50 years from now
If you separate the drums from the hubs, then you get fast acess to your rear brakes and dont have t modify anything. The studs shall be pressed out approximately 1/8" with a piece of tube that support the hub area around the stud - thereafter the drum can easily be pulled off - the holes in the drum might be needing some grinding for to be fully round, as well as the studs if you would like to use the old ones (just press them back in fully. |
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Location: Arizona | Why wouldn't anyone do this?? It's hard to think of too many things everyone agrees on and this is another to add to the list.... There have been a few threads about the whole "how to do tapered axles correctly" and "can I separate the drums from the hub" and people take very strong opposing views on those issues. I'm keeping my opinion to myself...... |
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Location: ALABAMA, HEART OF DIXIE | jimntempe - 2014-09-20 4:24 PM Why wouldn't anyone do this?? It's hard to think of too many things everyone agrees on and this is another to add to the list.... There have been a few threads about the whole "how to do tapered axles correctly" and "can I separate the drums from the hub" and people take very strong opposing views on those issues. I'm keeping my opinion to myself......
I just think that sharing options and opinions with others is a good thing. There just opinions, not demands. And if enough facts are offered to support the opinion, that even helps more. I've seen several options and methods posted that made me think .... Hey, good idea. If we can't bank off the wealth of knowledge and experience here, what good is it...? Go ahead, state your opinion, nobody will think less of you and i'd like to hear it. Always ready to learn. Will. |
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Location: Arizona | In general I agree with you rockeram. In this case however my opinion is based on hearing others opinions and not on first hand experience (I've not had to work on my rear brakes or axle yet) so I'm going to stay out of it and let those with first hand experience wade in. Both sides have offered good valid reasons for their views so it's entirely possible that both sides are right and it makes no difference which way you do it. |
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Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | true jim , to each his own , but if people could have seen how much of a problem my last tapered axles were to come apart , they'd never hesitate to swap out to
a newer rear housing and setup . i would never have believed it , if i hadn't had the experience myself . --------------------------------------------later |
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Location: atlanta | It took a week to get the brake drums off of a 61 Dodge I had a few years back, tension and heat and let it set over night, next day, tighten some more, let it sit overnight, I swore never again!
This 61 Plymouth I have now has a 66 C body third member, a direct bolt in, new brake parts, new brake lines, new U bolts, bigger brakes, easy to find parts, no hassles with the tapered axles. I'll keep the trans emergency brake to keep it somewhat original and no E brake lines to mess with and try to hook up.
Edited by fenix 2014-09-27 11:41 AM
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Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | udoittwo - 2014-09-20 2:29 PM
It's been a long time but I remember something like that on one of my cars that the wheel loosened and messed up the studs. The studs were pressed through the hub, The drum is slid down over the studs. The studs, at the base, had a slightly larger shoulder sticking through the drum a little. They pressed the new studs in, placed on the drum and then took something just large enough to slide down the stud and rest on the protruding shoulder. The shoulder was pressed down until it made a collar to pinch the drum to the hub. Now, I would just press the studs out enough to shear off the collar, press the studs back in and it leaves the drum free of the hub?
So, as long as I don't need to service the rear or axle bearings again, I should have no problem getting to the brakes. IF I am understanding this correctly and IF that is all there is to it, why wouldn't everyone do this? Are any safety concerns, maybe not for the 200 miles a year show car but for me that averages 8000 a year?
wizard - 2014-09-19 9:11 AM
If the job is done correctly, next time could be in 50 years from now
If you separate the drums from the hubs, then you get fast acess to your rear brakes and dont have t modify anything. The studs shall be pressed out approximately 1/8" with a piece of tube that support the hub area around the stud - thereafter the drum can easily be pulled off - the holes in the drum might be needing some grinding for to be fully round, as well as the studs if you would like to use the old ones (just press them back in fully.
You understood perfectly - it's just that simple. |
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Location: Valley Forge, Pa. | The shop was concerned about using a torch. Can you use heat anywhere that will actually concentrate it enough to be effective? Not concerned about seals but can you damage anything else by using heat?
Again, as long as the axels can be removed this time, I will be going back to the stock set up but will be looking around for a later rear. As long as nothing else goes wrong, I have a year until the drums have to be pulled for inspection, so I have a year to find and go over a replacement. |
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Location: Ontario, Canada | Many years ago, I was asked how many cars (57/58) that I had parted out. I spent considerable time looking back a bunch of years and my best guess was that it would be about 65 cars. Along with pulling cars out of yards sunk in moist mud for decades, I don't recall ANY rear drums I couldn't pull. Sure, some took a while, but never did I have to resort to extreme measures or just give up!
I'm sure we are all talking about the same tapered axles and drums and are using the same pullers so, so, WHY are we on different pages here?? The only variable in this is the actual application/installation of the puller itself.
Pull the cotter pin, back off the axle nut, remove the washer and re thread the axle nut BACKWARDS onto the axle shaft until it is PERFECTLY flush with the end of the axle shaft. Carefully install the puller. If this job only takes a few minutes, believe me, you have not installed the puller perfectly CONCENTRICALLY. Go ahead at this stage and put tension on the puller. But, if there is no quick success at this stage, don't just continue to beat on the puller. STOP. Back it all off and spend considerable time to PERFECTLY install the puller so that it pulls absolutely evenly on the drum. THIS IS NOT AS EASY AS IT SOUNDS.
If one just takes the time to do this, all the bad stuff just goes away!!!
Greg
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Location: ALABAMA, HEART OF DIXIE | STOP. Back it all off and spend considerable time to PERFECTLY install the puller so that it pulls absolutely evenly on the drum. THIS IS NOT AS EASY AS IT SOUNDS. If one just takes the time to do this, all the bad stuff just goes away!!! Greg
Sounds like Another good reason to change to a post 65 rear axle assy. Your brake job will be done by the time you get the drums off the old assy. And with less tools. |
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Location: NorCal | LD3 Greg - 2014-09-28 9:13 PM
If one just takes the time to do this, all the bad stuff just goes away!!!
Greg
I, too, have never experienced the problems many here have with removing tapered axle drums but I still wouldn't hesitate to swap to the later axle in any car that I intended to keep for awhile. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Does having owned my car since 1980 qualify as having owned it for "a while"?
Original axles still in the car, but the third-member/gearset was changed to 2.76 a few years ago.
The bearings have been serviced twice since 1980.
After the OEM axles have been serviced, removing them again, is no big deal.
All of the 'removal' stories, on these boards, concern drums that haven't been previously removed.
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Location: Springville, CA | <p>another useless post by the "master-of-the-inane"!</p>
Edited by 56Fanatic 2014-09-30 10:15 AM
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Location: NorCal | d500neil - 2014-09-29 3:37 PM
Original axles still in the car, but the third-member/gearset was changed to 2.76 a few years ago.
And then there are those who change axle ratios more often than "years". |
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Expert 5K+
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Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | i was going to take photos of removing the axles and hubs from bertha , now i wish i did . i set up the puller as perfect as any human possibly could . probably took 15 mins. or so to get the legs
setting just so with the center of the hub . the first time i gave up , even gave it a shot of pen. oil before i walked away . the next day i tried again , no go . so thats when i got out the gas wrench ,
which i truly , truly hated to do but it was absolutely no other course of action .
now to the theory of never being removed in 50 yrs. . just how could that be . after all brakes do wear out . for bertha i absolutely know the rear brakes were serviced 1500 miles before i bought
the car , with new wheel cylinders and shoes but were they put back on properly , i don't know . but something is wrong when you try to pull a hub and the wheel stud pulls through the hub and thats
was before the gas wrench -------------------------------------------------------------later |
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shop destropyed axle removing it. What to do?
