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Expert
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Location: Lordstown, Ohio | for a unrestored car. Granted I have come across some survivor's that are quite remarkable. Meaning running driving and all original paint. My eyes a survivor is a car still possessing all it had when it left assembly line. A car that was painted is NOT a survivor therefore its been monkeyed with.
Even if the car is one of xxxxxx whats too much |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 6498
Location: Newark, Texas (Fort Worth) | A totally original low mile dual quad hemi convertible from 1958, say, in red with red leather interior and red top with rare manual transmission? Priceless! |
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Extreme Veteran
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Location: jersey | depends.
a survivor flat head six silver special will sell for a lot less than a golden commando fury in then same condition. |
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Expert 5K+
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Location: Perth Australia | Hard question Wayne
I think your probably one of the better people to ask that question to actually, but, the way I try and look at it (if I am using my brain to buy a car and not my heart) is all about condition
A car with "patina" to me is a car with repairs required, worn paint can be excused (if patina is your thing) but rust and or holes cant be, that needs repairs.
Ripped interior is the same, but thats me
Then there is the differing cars and models (as Mark was alluding to)
60 plymouth savoy, 6 cyl sedan, complete stripper, nothing on it but panels, compared to a sonoramic covertable, be a big difference in price, even if you take the body style out of it and its just the engine option thats different, the sonor car would be worth a lot more than its stripper sister car
The 60 plymouth for sale now, I am still in the market for at the price it is (I know, not a survivor car because of the interior ect) but I wouldnt pay twice that amount.
So many variables
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Location: Parts Unknown | Everyone thought I was out of my #@! mind when I paid $10K for my DeSoto. At the time,
one could find and buy complete, but needing everything Firesweep convertibles for around
$1500. I never missed the money, and was thrilled from day one in finally having the car of
my dreams, and today, that $10K is absurdly low. So, go figure ...
This is just MY approach to this kind of thing, .... don't waste your time and money on "half
measure" dreams. Pick your course, set your sails, and make it happen. When the game is
over and we look back on our lives, I don't want to have any more regrets than I have to.
Edited by Doctor DeSoto 2014-10-24 11:45 PM
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Location: Indiana | Very tough question, Wayne.
I label both of my cars as "survivors".
But neither one has the factory TIRES, so perhaps it's a stretch to label them as such.
The '55 Dodge Coronet is a three-tone and the 1955's original Chrysler "558 Fantasy Yellow" has been repainted with GM's 1957 "800 Colonial Cream".
Paint chips don't look alike but the paint was mixed by some specialized photometric light reflection computer and looks great (there is the higher "shine" of a two-stage paint versus an acrylic or urethane).
So with the one of three paint colors repainted, new tires, but everything else straight from the factory with just a smidge over 30,000 miles on it, there are SEVERAL folks on this forum who would say I "overpaid" - because it has, gasp!, FOUR DOORS.
My '61 Studebaker Hawk was found in a barn with nothing but dust and cobwebs as far as the eye could see.
Last plated in '74, all original, no repaint, but does have new tires and I replaced the clutch plate and ring gear so I guess it's a stretch to call it "survivor".
But there are SEVERAL folks on this forum that would say I "overpaid" - because it's a STUDEBAKER or because I didn't get a few years older and get the GOLDEN HAWK.
Like Doc says, don't waste YOUR time and YOUR money on "half measure" dreams.
And like ttotired said, you want something that your HEART is in, not your BRAIN - but I'll add to that slightly, I can think of about THIRTY cars that I'l love to OWN, but only about SIX of them that I'd spend time and money to RESTORE. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 608
Location: Madison, Wisconsin | This is just MY approach to this kind of thing, .... don't waste your time and money on "half
measure" dreams. Pick your course, set your sails, and make it happen. When the game is
over and we look back on our lives, I don't want to have any more regrets than I have to.
Very well put Doc. I could not agree more. I have settled for less from time to time and always regretted it. You can always make more money or due with less money, but settling for a half measure dream is only half done. |
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Location: Indiana | Agreed, I use my dad as an example.
He used to drag race in Cali when he got out of the Army, raced a '53 Studebaker.
Then family came along and cars were sold, but there was always a "project" in the garage, too many to remember, I recall a '55 Stude pickup, a '58 Packard, a '63 Avanti, there were at least half a dozen others that I don't recall.
Interest in the "project" ALWAYS faded and was just one more project sent down the road and traded in on another project.
UNTIL mom found dad's ol' '53 and surprised him a few days before Christmas back in the mid-90s.
One of very FEW times I've ever seen TEARS in my dad's eyes.
Also the ONLY "project" he ever put back together, would tear dozens of 'em down, but would lose interest before putting them back together.
It driveable now, but not officially "on the road" until next summer.
His HEART was in this one! |
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Expert
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Location: NY & VT | The question, as stated, is impossible to answer as far as an exact number is concerned without knowing the specific car and it's detailed condition. And the term survivor can be interpreted in many ways. |
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Expert
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Location: Vancouver, BC | FwdLk56 - 2014-10-25 8:26 AM
Very tough question, Wayne.
I label both of my cars as "survivors".
But neither one has the factory TIRES, so perhaps it's a stretch to label them as such.
The '55 Dodge Coronet is a three-tone and the 1955's original Chrysler "558 Fantasy Yellow" has been repainted with GM's 1957 "800 Colonial Cream".
Paint chips don't look alike but the paint was mixed by some specialized photometric light reflection computer and looks great (there is the higher "shine" of a two-stage paint versus an acrylic or urethane).
So with the one of three paint colors repainted, new tires, but everything else straight from the factory with just a smidge over 30,000 miles on it, there are SEVERAL folks on this forum who would say I "overpaid" - because it has, gasp!, FOUR DOORS.
My '61 Studebaker Hawk was found in a barn with nothing but dust and cobwebs as far as the eye could see.
Last plated in '74, all original, no repaint, but does have new tires and I replaced the clutch plate and ring gear so I guess it's a stretch to call it "survivor".
But there are SEVERAL folks on this forum that would say I "overpaid" - because it's a STUDEBAKER or because I didn't get a few years older and get the GOLDEN HAWK.
Like Doc says, don't waste YOUR time and YOUR money on "half measure" dreams.
And like ttotired said, you want something that your HEART is in, not your BRAIN - but I'll add to that slightly, I can think of about THIRTY cars that I'l love to OWN, but only about SIX of them that I'd spend time and money to RESTORE.
Your Studebaker is most definitely a survivor. Replacing items that wear out with use, such as tires, clutch plate, brakes, etc. are items that are necessary to keep the car drivable and safe. Repainting and replating is where you cross the line, in my mind.
And I'm another Studebaker fan. Nothing wrong with a 1961 Hawk. They were well built cars with bucket seats (new for 1961 - recliner optional) and a no nonsense instrument panel with real gauges. And 1961 was the last year for the true Loewy Hawks and the fins. Brooks Stevens did the 1962 restyle.
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Location: Parts Unknown | Getting back to the original question .... "survivor". What exactly does that mean ? It wasn't crushed
out on 1964, allowing it to survive to today. So it has some mods, or is a hulk, needing a total reconstruction
from parts, or it is Grandma Pittipoo's 36 thousand mile cream puff ...
What really matters is that it is THE CAR you dream and lust for and lose sleep over. ANY money spent on
THAT car will never be missed and you'll remain enthusiastic for the car no matter what it takes to make it
what you want.
I read lots of stories here about guys who have this car or that and it seems to be a treadmill pattern of
whatever just happens to drop in their laps. I have been guilty of "wandering" from my "true path of rectitude",
but even in doing so, they were always cars I really liked. I never settled for a similar car as being "close
enough".
As for how much is such a car worth, ... that is an individualistic question one must decide on based on desire,
availability, how much money one has, and how much money one needs to have on hand to keep the lights on,
above and beyond buying this dream car.
I gave my DeSoto example earlier in the thread. As I saw it, I had wasted YEARS in a perverse lust/anguish,
wanting THAT car and finding everything BUT. I calculated I was spending stupid money chasing rabbits and
coming up with nothing, and while $10K in 1990 dollars was no small pittance, in the bigger picture, it was
mission accomplished at a bargain price against the money I was spending on fruitless searching and my own
sanity lost in the process. Even if I had to borrow the money, it wasn't that much to keep me in debt for more
than a few months. So I pulled the trigger and never regretted it at all. And as I said before, at that time, I was
buying or passing on similar Firesweeps for around $1500-$2000.
Follow your heart. 
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Expert
Posts: 2312
Location: Arizona | It's like pornography, you know it when you see "it". Trouble is, different people see "it" differently. That's never gonna change. |
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Location: The Mile High City | firedome - 2014-10-25 9:12 AM
The question, as stated, is impossible to answer as far as an exact number is concerned without knowing the specific car and it's detailed condition. And the term survivor can be interpreted in many ways.
The original question doesn't seem impossible to me:
Too much is definitely too much!  |
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Location: Parts Unknown | That is my point, Mike. All my friends thought I was nuts paying WAY "too much" for my DeSoto. My own
math at the time said it was cheaper than continuing to look for a cheaper example. Time has proven it wasn't
such a bad deal at all. So, as Wayne asks, WHAT determines what is "too much" ?
Obviously, for the Barrett-Jackson buyers, "too much" is leagues beyond what anyone on this site considers
"too much" ! There is no flat answer for this. It's all about desire and resources each person has vs. the
ready availability of the chosen vehicle.
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Expert
Posts: 1489
Location: Lordstown, Ohio | Well put by a vast majority. Only reason I asked was to see how people viewed this question. Would I pay 10-15k for a 57-58 Desoto conv that needs restored,..Yeah... Would I pay 20-25k for a driver one that needs work but not perfect,... Yeah. Would I pay 50+k for one that is derelict needing paint, engine overhauled, trans done ,interior, chrome ,all the mech, NOPE
Would I pay 6-10k for a survivor wagon, depends.
Lastly, been waiting on a answer from a person who has been housing a 58 Impala conv in their building for over 25+ years. Its a 348 all original paint interior and no rot. The guy wants it out. The lady who owns it has accepted my offer, but is waiting for her mother to pass away. So why do I bring all this up, I guess, when you look at what one may find tucked away in a barn, garage, field, shed. One may score a nice find. Then you find the ones where people watch to much TV and feel that their gem is worth untold amounts, based upon what they saw on TV. Not realizing the actual cost to build a car.
When I was 14, I found an all original 427 AC Cobra. guy wanted $1500.00 for it. Brought my dad showed him. My dad said " you don't want no aluminum car. You cant fix them. Plus it got that big engine that will use a lot of gas" To this day when we see one at a show or where ever he says, you could of had one of them.
Just babbling in my head |
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Location: Indiana | Yep, all about desire.
I mean, I know folks that live in a $20k mobile home and drive a $60k SUV with $5k stereos and another $1k wrapped up into chrome plating their rims with rubber bands for tires.
You can argue with them until your teeth turn blue but you will *never* convince them that they "paid too much" for the SUV. |
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How much is toooo much
