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Location: McComb, Mississippi | I know that I'm not one of the master techs on the forum , but I consider myself to be pretty darn good at repairing cars of this vintage. I have learned soooo much from this site and those master tech videos put out by chrysler . I have noticed a lot of complaints when it comes to our stock brakes. I've also read some people talking about the poor ride quality they are experiencing. I just wanted to put together a list of causes so that folks who aren't mechanically inclined or just not familiar with these cars can see what usually is the fault. Brakes= Incorrect adjustment of the brake shoes, contaminated linings and drums, Air in the system, improper free play at pushrod on power brake assemblies. Ride and handling and steering= worn suspension parts, worn out rubber insulator on steering shaft for power steering cars, bad front in alignment, correct front end alignment but the alignment was for bias ply tires and you are using modern radial tires. Please feel free to add more. That's all that I can think of off the top of my head
Edited by plymouth 2014-10-24 12:03 AM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 982
Location: Upper Hunter NSW Australia | ........
Ride/Handling/Steering............. body to frame rubbers not shimmed enough, collapsed or missing altogether ...........
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Expert
Posts: 1906
Location: Ontario, Canada | ABSOLUTELY by FAR, the MOST important part is the condition and/or the shimming of the body to frame rubber mounts!!!
Terry, it is wonderful to hear from someone who truly understands the kinetics of this !!!
'Nuff said!!
Greg
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Expert
Posts: 1906
Location: Ontario, Canada | While on the subject, why don't we just add; rattles, creaking, pulling to one side or another during extreme braking and/or acceleration. ALL the things that one would really LIKE to fix.
The fix can be as simple as PROPERLY shimming and torquing each and every body mount!!
UNIBODY cars are not so simple.
Greg |
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Expert
Posts: 3967
Location: DFW, TX | Are we talking only the unibody '60-61 cars? Or do body mounting problems affect ride and steering of the full-frame '55-59 cars as well? I'm having trouble understanding how body mounts would affect this on a car with a full frame. |
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Expert
Posts: 1906
Location: Ontario, Canada | The bodies and frames were designed to fit precisely together. When we dissemble a lot of these cars we see quite a few of the body to frame rubber cushions squashed and fragmented beyond recognition while some look almost new. The main reason I can think of to cause this is that they don't fit together well and tightening these mounts literally twists both body and frame out of "shape". This will cause at least some poor driving characteristics.
To carefully shim each body mount for even contact all around will result in a happier driving car!
Greg |
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Expert
Posts: 1906
Location: Ontario, Canada | Getting ready to drop body (my 300 C) onto fully loaded chassis with T-bars tightened etc. and carefully shim each mount for even contact as close as possible and then torque all to specs.
Greg
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 8443
Location: Perth Australia | Maybe Jane (another thread for those that read this in the future) should look here to see whats involved in a full on restoration 
Awesome work looks fantastic
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Nice work as usual, Greg, but whatsup with the painted-over trunk asphaltic sound deadener panels????
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Expert
Posts: 1906
Location: Ontario, Canada | Neil, I am disappointed!! I thought the first thing you would question was dropping a Mopar body onto a frame with the complete front clip installed and aligned. Indeed, Chrysler did that and, of course, Dodge didn't !!
Pertinent to this thread, it is important to recognize that the factory simply torqued the bodies and frames together without regard to "fit". That's when misalignments started!!! In the case of 57/59 Chryslers, the front bumper had to be installed. This left uneven gaps along the front sheet metal. THE FIX was to pull down or push up on those spring steel secondary brackets that secured the front sheet metal to the frame. Those of us who have done compressive restorations know exactly what I mean! The problem is that this creates another "crooked" car.
For Dodges the story was similar. The front clip was installed after body drop and shims at the rad yoke should fix fender to door alignment. When the body/frame has been pulled "crooked" this isn't easy! The bumpers also have spring steel brackets attached to the body. Pulling and pushing will also accomplish panel/bumper alignment but again, at the expensive of creating a "crooked" car!
The service manuals outline detailed ways of loosening and shimming body mounts and ultimately TWISTING our cars to correct panel alignment and make "em" look good! Especially for convertibles. For those who subscribe to FACTORY goals to kick it out the door for sale, go for it!! For those who want to keep the car and enjoy it --- do it my way!!
For anyone who wants to drive a HAPPY car, just contact me. Come and drive my Regal Lancer.
Greg |
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Expert
Posts: 3480
Location: Montreal, Canada | This thread is a very good read, keep it coming guys!
LD3 Greg - 2014-10-31 12:26 AM
For anyone who wants to drive a HAPPY car, just contact me. Come and drive my Regal Lancer.
Greg
Greg, I might take you up on that some day!  |
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Expert
Posts: 1906
Location: Ontario, Canada | We can do that, David.
Greg |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 782
Location: Edmonton, Alberta | Wow Greg..... that's a nice looking car!!! |
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Expert
Posts: 1906
Location: Ontario, Canada | Thanks Gord.
Greg |
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Expert
Posts: 1906
Location: Ontario, Canada | Photos from another thread showing how I like to set up for extensive body work. The posts are identical in length and placed at (ultimately) every body mount so the mounts are as close to a mirror image of the frame as possible.
This usually requires very little shimming when fastening the body to the frame. I would spend as much time as it took to shim and get even contact at each mount all around the car. The effort paid off in spades, not just a lovely handling car but installing front clips for Dodges and mounting bumpers was usually a straight forward one man job!! We all know the latter can be a very frustrating process!
Greg
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Posts: 1906
Location: Ontario, Canada | LD3 Greg - 2014-10-31 12:26 AM
Pertinent to this thread, it is important to recognize that the factory simply torqued the bodies and frames together without regard to "fit". That's when misalignments started!!!
Greg
I just came across this little booklet while going through my lit. collection. The factory did this job in 5 seconds!!
Precisely my point!
Greg
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Expert
Posts: 1906
Location: Ontario, Canada | Here is the rest of that little booklet.
Greg
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Expert
Posts: 1493
Location: Jamaica Plain, MA | I just use hockey pucks for body mounts. J/k. You'll note that poor body fit was a factory issue. Worn suspension bushings and improperly adjusted brakes are the effects of time and the skill of mechanics. These cars weren't intended to be operational 50 something years later.
Edited by JT Vincent 2015-01-12 6:10 PM
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Expert
Posts: 1906
Location: Ontario, Canada | First of all, the rubber in pucks is WAY too hard. Might better just go steel on steel!
Secondly, my goal was always to "Restore" to the ENGINEERING DESIGN of these cars as opposed to the way they HAPPENED to leave the factory. There is a huge difference!
Greg |
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Expert
Posts: 1493
Location: Jamaica Plain, MA | Um, Greg... "j/k" means "just kidding." Eg: I don't really use hockey pucks. I actually use milled urethane bushings, which are almost archival. |
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Veteran
Posts: 272
Location: Missouri | I am sure the bushings on my Coronet are shot as the body has never been off the frame since I bought it in '73 and surely never since it was built new. |
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Expert
Posts: 1231
Location: York County, PA | Greg; I like your fixture for doing the body work. It looks like its adjustable to bring everything into easy reach.
Catch ya later. |
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Expert
Posts: 1906
Location: Ontario, Canada | The post system worked for me. In fact, this is a duplication of the way the factory assembled the bodies. Of course, the factory didn't use an old frame and posts. They built the body on a very elaborate fixture, but, nonetheless the vertical foundation was nothing more than an image of the finished frame!!
The 30" posts gave me access to do any welding and panel placement that I needed.
Greg
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Posts: 1906
Location: Ontario, Canada | JT Vincent - 2015-01-20 6:37 PM
Um, Greg... "j/k" means "just kidding." Eg: I don't really use hockey pucks. I actually use milled urethane bushings, which are almost archival.
Jon,
I just looked back on this thread. I didn't get your "j/k" meaning. Sorry about that!
Greg |
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Usual suspects
