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another 1960 Chrysler appeared
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mikes2nd
Posted 2019-03-04 1:22 PM (#578856 - in reply to #469368)
Subject: Re: another 1960 Chrysler appeared


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that sucks, I know the feeling where you like uhg what else? I get my own parts sandblasted and do my own body work.

Your too far in to quit though. Itll be worth it in the end

that would explain the rear quarter repair on the drivers side being off.

I think if you used a puller you could get it to move back a 1/4 inch, hopefully. It appears it has been "rounded" off a bit. Obviously gently and slowly.

You can see from your "redline" picture, the edge has been flatted from the damage. You need to put that body line back in place a little more. Its very tricky work.

As a body guy, I always try to use the trim and other body mouldings to make sure there was no damage and everything fits perfect.

That corner which was damaged should have been inspected carefully. It appears not a lot of work was done there at all(which is fine I guess it didn't cost you anything).

I hate "redoing" work, that's the worst... your redoing work but at least you didn't pay to have this ****up.
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57burb
Posted 2019-03-04 1:26 PM (#578857 - in reply to #578856)
Subject: Re: another 1960 Chrysler appeared



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Location: DFW, TX
ouch, that is no good

It's just metal. It can be fixed, and should be. It would be better if they had done better collision repair back then, but this is just the reality for many of these old cars.

My dad works in a resto shop. You would be surprised how often they will finish the body and paint work, just to find out that the trim fits like that! And then have to pull it all back apart and fix it.

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Adventurer 60
Posted 2019-03-04 4:35 PM (#578869 - in reply to #469368)
Subject: Re: another 1960 Chrysler appeared



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I feel sorry for you Dieter. How can any painter who has even little self respect can paint on surface rust for a customer who paid for sand blasting...
Here that kinda crook would be hanged from his bollocks.
Lee Meyer in South Ca has a 60 Windsor coupe and is parting it out. You should ask him if he got a decent left rear fender.
Right fender was busted if I remember right.
He also got some F-parts for sale.
He is in Facebook
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wizard
Posted 2019-03-05 8:50 AM (#578897 - in reply to #469368)
Subject: Re: another 1960 Chrysler appeared



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Dieter, don't use the moulding as reference - it might be warped from the accident. Use a neck profile ruler on the right side, turn it and recheck the left side.

As reference, you might find one locally as well…..

https://www.dhgate.com/store/product/1-pcs-high-quality-profile-gaug...
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mikes2nd
Posted 2019-03-05 1:49 PM (#578905 - in reply to #469368)
Subject: Re: another 1960 Chrysler appeared


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well the moulding gets you an idea, yes check everything extensively... I think the trim is probably undamaged and a replacement. Im sure it was destroyed in the accident.
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di_ch_NY56
Posted 2019-03-05 2:17 PM (#578907 - in reply to #469368)
Subject: RE: another 1960 Chrysler appeared



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Location: ZH, Switzerland

When I look at the trim of the drivers side.... the rear and the corner are looking fantastic. Do dent, nothing. Of course the side trim (long rail) has many dents from carless door openers on both sides. A big smile I got when I saw the 300 F ornament of the drivers side... all original colors and absolutely no discoloration from the environment. That shows me, that the drivers side trim was removed, eventually replaced (some parts) long, long ago. The really professional body worker at the second shop would produce templates out of body steel from the passenger side rear corner and flip it. Could be or most possible this is a ways more expensive solution than purchase the item Wizard proposed.

Happy Restoring!

Dieter

BTW: I was just curious and wanted to get an impression about the quotation (how far is the actual drivers side rear corner from it's original shape).

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di_ch_NY56
Posted 2019-03-09 8:37 AM (#579070 - in reply to #469368)
Subject: RE: another 1960 Chrysler appeared



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Some pictures (as a collection) of my visit this morning. I was just wondering how the underside of the dashboard carrier/inner, lower windshield frame surrounding looks like. From the hood shelf under the rear window I knew, that the shop owner took a brush to apply the primer. It looks like I have to clean the whole underside again with a rotating wire brush...

The reinforcement of the roof I have to remove myself as well. I guess on the side of the rubber I'm going to apply rust inhibitor color.

Absolutely clear now is why the drivers side rear corner doesn't match. Two pictures (passenger side and drivers side).

Happy Restoring!

Dieter

BTW: because the subframe is mounted through a positive locking system at the rear, there is just to adjust the hight of the front mounting point after the adjustemts of the doors, following the front fenders and then the hight of the frame. If the front track is not inline the rear track, the subframe is bent or twisted and needs a replacement or a extensive repair.





(IMG_5685_underside inside dashbord carrier drivers side.JPG)



(IMG_5686_underside inside dashbord carrier center.JPG)



(IMG_5687_underside inside dashbord carrier passenger side.JPG)



(IMG_5689_roof reinforcement.JPG)



(IMG_5694_rear corner drivers side.JPG)



(IMG_5695_rear corner passenger side.JPG)



Attachments
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Attachments IMG_5685_underside inside dashbord carrier drivers side.JPG (199KB - 33 downloads)
Attachments IMG_5686_underside inside dashbord carrier center.JPG (236KB - 34 downloads)
Attachments IMG_5687_underside inside dashbord carrier passenger side.JPG (249KB - 32 downloads)
Attachments IMG_5689_roof reinforcement.JPG (206KB - 33 downloads)
Attachments IMG_5694_rear corner drivers side.JPG (159KB - 31 downloads)
Attachments IMG_5695_rear corner passenger side.JPG (162KB - 32 downloads)
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wizard
Posted 2019-03-09 9:12 AM (#579071 - in reply to #469368)
Subject: Re: another 1960 Chrysler appeared



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Dieter, the backside of the cowl and under the dash, roof and rear shelf was never painted at all. Surely, you can do it better with a wire brush, but it's more like "nice to have", not necessary.

Please eludicate us how you concluded that it's absolutely clear why the corners doesn't match??
The dent in the right rear corner is a result of a kiss from the bumper - it should be smooth.
Or, am I missing something?

As for the subframe - did the guys check the diagonal measurements in the FSM, Group 13, paragraph 2, fig 5?

Hypothetically, if the diagonal measures are equal for A and B, it means that the subframe is not askew. This measures cannot be made with accuracy when the subframe is mounted, hence the "in-line" center line checks in the FSM.


So, the conclusion is; IF the subframe has the same diagonal measurements AND the body isn't severly damaged, then, hypothetically, the center line will be true when the subframe is mounted.

As for the frame to body check/adjustment refer to Group 13, paragraph 3 - this operation is done for to adjust eventual height differencies between the subframe and the body.
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di_ch_NY56
Posted 2019-03-09 11:13 AM (#579076 - in reply to #469368)
Subject: RE: another 1960 Chrysler appeared



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When the rear bumper is removed, the horizontal pressed steel piece (welded to the trunk floor or an extension of the trunk floor) appears. At both pictures (drivers side and passenger side) it's clearly visible that the distance between the ends of that sheet metal to the body is not equal on each side. The distance of the passenger side is about one inch (2 to 2.5 cm), while the distance at the drivers side is almost double ( I used the phone and took a finger as a reference, walked to the other side and compared, not mm accuracy, but a quality value expression). First time I thought something is not correct was, when the (farmer) body worker at the first shop completed the weather channel on the rear wall. It is not parallel like on JoseFin and every other 60 to 63 Chrysler, but tapered from the middle of the distance between the license plate recession and the corner where the weather strip channel changes the direction. I couldn't mount the recessions for the weather strip channel like you on the pictures you provided. At the drivers side I said, take the measurement at the construction. Because I knew that the channel should be parallel. At the very drivers side it's about 3/8" (1 cm, accurate) less wide.

Today I measured the inclination of the rear wall. Even though the measurement was all other than very accurate (tilt meter used with the rubber bumper around my iPhone X), it's sunny clear that at the drivers side some material is missing - the inclination on the drivers side is steeper, almost 3 degrees.

Visible from the top of the fin to the floor around the foot print of my Letter the diameter at the bottom where the rear fender turns around to the rear wall is noticealbe smaller on the drivers side than on the passenger side.

Happy Restoring!

Dieter

 

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di_ch_NY56
Posted 2019-03-09 11:36 AM (#579079 - in reply to #469368)
Subject: RE: another 1960 Chrysler appeared



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Location: ZH, Switzerland

About the measurement of the distance A and B (from the rear leaf spring mounting point to the (I guess) mounting hole for the radiator yoke) should be possible on a car lift with four A4 sheets fixed to the floor and a plummet. Then this distance could be measured at the floor. The tolerance between each diagonal measurement is 0.25" (6.35 mm)according the FSM. For that measurement the subframe must be mounted at the body.

Happy Restoring!

Dieter

BTW: both pictures are illustration, that I was not a severe damage at the frame. The main impact of that particular accident hit the front of the passenger side fenders, both inner and outer.

BTW 2: I cleaned the subframe outside the building from coating... there was no damage at the color of the frame (e.g. flaking/exfoliate color) at all.



Edited by di_ch_NY56 2019-03-09 11:41 AM




(IMG_4365_subframe as it was.JPG)



(IMG_4421_subframe repaired.JPG)



Attachments
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Attachments IMG_4365_subframe as it was.JPG (191KB - 32 downloads)
Attachments IMG_4421_subframe repaired.JPG (285KB - 32 downloads)
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wizard
Posted 2019-03-09 1:31 PM (#579086 - in reply to #469368)
Subject: Re: another 1960 Chrysler appeared



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A and B measurements in this case refers only to the subframe. Check the GSM and it will be clear.
The triangular measurement is a way when one doesn't have the special tools.
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di_ch_NY56
Posted 2019-03-09 1:44 PM (#579087 - in reply to #579086)
Subject: Re: another 1960 Chrysler appeared



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wizard - 2019-03-08 7:31 PM A and B measurements in this case refers only to the subframe. Check the FSM and it will be clear. The triangular measurement is a way when one doesn't have the special tools.

I'm sorry, with all of my respect to you I think FSM chapter 23, page 17, Fig. 9 fits as well for the mounted subframe/body assembly.

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wizard
Posted 2019-03-09 4:51 PM (#579092 - in reply to #469368)
Subject: Re: another 1960 Chrysler appeared



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Yes Dieter, those measurements will cover everything. It might be difficult to reach some of the points, but it should be doable with some tooling.
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di_ch_NY56
Posted 2019-03-17 7:09 AM (#579455 - in reply to #469368)
Subject: RE: another 1960 Chrysler appeared



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Location: ZH, Switzerland

As my Letter represents (just the outer front fender mounted at the front end and the subframe) I decided to purchase a set of 1/8" 46-85 Mopar Body, Fender Shims Alignement Adjusters Caster Camber Square at epain to put it between the passenger side front mounting brace. As I wrote earlier, the drivers side front fender is about 1.5 to 2 fingers above the subframe, while the passenger side front fender touches the subframe.

Happy Restoring!

Dieter





(body shim.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments body shim.jpg (146KB - 32 downloads)
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di_ch_NY56
Posted 2019-04-13 9:09 AM (#580817 - in reply to #469368)
Subject: RE: another 1960 Chrysler appeared



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Location: ZH, Switzerland

This week the radiator yoke (disassembled), the hood hinges, the inner fenders and the service covers went to the professional sand blaster shop. The foreman just shaked his head when he saw the parts how they were sandblasted. I'll getting it back epoxy coated (correct: the body and painter shop). As soon as they are back in the shop they'll start with the building up the paint layer construction.

Today the painter and me used a long water spirit level buble bar to check the side to side standing of the body on the wheels. From the painter the judgement was quite good. With the same size of tires on all four corners it could stay horizontal whithin few millimeters. The body is not warped diagonally. That's a good sign.

 

Happy Restoring!

Dieter

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di_ch_NY56
Posted 2019-04-15 2:03 PM (#580925 - in reply to #469368)
Subject: RE: another 1960 Chrysler appeared



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Location: ZH, Switzerland

These are  the parts (hopefully the only batch) to sandblast again like I addressed in my last entry.

Happy Restoring! (zynic in the meantime)





(IMG_5587_parts to sandblast a second time.JPG)



Attachments
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Attachments IMG_5587_parts to sandblast a second time.JPG (473KB - 19 downloads)
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di_ch_NY56
Posted 2019-05-01 1:03 PM (#581627 - in reply to #469368)
Subject: RE: another 1960 Chrysler appeared



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Location: ZH, Switzerland

Last Saturday I was at the shop again. The painter said, next week the newly sandblasted parts will arrive at his shop. I assume next Saturday I‘ll visit him again. Further he communicated that his brother will cut and put in slices of sheet metal to bring the drivers side left hand side corner will come back in the original shape.

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di_ch_NY56
Posted 2019-05-11 10:36 AM (#582021 - in reply to #469368)
Subject: RE: another 1960 Chrysler appeared



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Location: ZH, Switzerland

Today when I visited the body&paint shop I was surprised.

My Letter moved one place forward to the working area. The painter joined me (he came later, was ill like me, but I was driving the truck the whole week). We were walking around my Letter and discussing the solution for different issues (e.g. drivers side rear corner, zone below and around the passenger side tail light, the bump of the rear bumper on the passenger side, the outer wheel well passenger side, two harmonic dents near the rear top of the passenger side fin). The target is to use as less as possible of body filler.

Dieter

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di_ch_NY56
Posted 2019-05-26 2:26 AM (#582528 - in reply to #469368)
Subject: RE: another 1960 Chrysler appeared



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Location: ZH, Switzerland

Yesterday after the vistit at the paint & bodyshop I visited the low quality shop again to pick up my grille frame. It made a tour to east Turkey and back. The costs were about two month salaries of an employee in that country (in local currency). I temporarely mounted the grille mesh just to look at. I'm aware to clean and eventually paint the grille mesh in satin black.

Dieter

BTW: I'm aware hypothetically to fix the spots and let rechrome it locally - I postpone that project to my retirement age.





(IMG_5928_grill frame repaired and rechromed.JPG)



Attachments
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Attachments IMG_5928_grill frame repaired and rechromed.JPG (395KB - 9 downloads)
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di_ch_NY56
Posted 2019-05-26 2:30 AM (#582529 - in reply to #469368)
Subject: RE: another 1960 Chrysler appeared



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Just the upper three quarts of the grille frame have contact to the front end sheet metal. That perimeter is in a astonishing good condition compared to the condition of the body at the very beginning of the restoration. The bottom quart of the surrounding is free hanging in the air on a 1960 Chrysler. At least at my Letter.

Dieter

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di_ch_NY56
Posted 2019-05-26 4:40 AM (#582531 - in reply to #580925)
Subject: RE: another 1960 Chrysler appeared



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Location: ZH, Switzerland

di_ch_NY56 - 2019-04-14 8:03 PM

These are  the parts (hopefully the only batch) to sandblast again like I addressed in my last entry.

Happy Restoring! (zynic in the meantime)

While the inner fenders were out of the car and the service covers present I tried to see how they will fit. But as long as the inner fenders are not mounted they will not fit perfect. Because the inner fenders are under tension while mounted.

Dieter

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di_ch_NY56
Posted 2019-06-01 8:37 AM (#582790 - in reply to #469368)
Subject: RE: another 1960 Chrysler appeared



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Location: ZH, Switzerland

Today I brought the mounting hardware to the body&paint shop. The UNF 9/16, UNF 3/4 and UNF 7/8 screws and hex nuts I ordered recently. Because the screws are UNF the hex nuts were cold welded and the threads are severly damaged. At the front top of the vertical piece (holding the bumber at the junction of the center and side parts of the rear bumper) is a snubber. It's 200 at Garys catalog, page 28.

Dieter





(IMG_5946_rear bumper mounting hardware.JPG)



Attachments
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Attachments IMG_5946_rear bumper mounting hardware.JPG (482KB - 9 downloads)
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