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Expert
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Location: Fairfax, Minnesota | This is a block with flat top pistons and closed chamber heads (10:1 ?). I have the standard differential ratio of around 2.93:1. I will be adding dual exhaust and will run a 4 bbl. I have not run across a published weight for my 61 Chrysler, but I assume it is around 4,000. I plan to look into better flowing intake and exhaust manifolds also. The car will be used strictly for crusing, events and a few road trips. I would like the cam to add as much low end torque and horsepower as possible, without it becoming a pain to drive (no high stall converter). Let me know what has worked best for you. Thanks
Edited by Ray 2015-03-13 12:28 AM
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Expert
Posts: 1506
Location: Colo Spgs | Hola Ray
The easy way to do every thing you said is to acquire a 1978 - 1972 Dodge Truck 400 Engine and to use your 1961 383 Crank Shaft. This is also the most "cost effective".
Unless you want "the bragging rights" --- The 4 bbl Induction is not needed.
Rodger & Gabby
COS |
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Expert
Posts: 2519
Location: central Illinois | I'll be using a modern grind with fast ramp speeds, the Comp Xtreme Energy cam. I'd suggest either the 21-222 or 21-223. I'll be running the 21-223 in my 383. http://www.compperformancegroupstores.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen...
Here's the link to the others they offer. http://www.compperformancegroupstores.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen... |
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Expert
Posts: 1739
Location: Alaska | I think the extreme energy cam is a bit much for a cruiser with 2.93 gears. Why not run a cam that is close to the old 383-440 magnum( they are still available) something like 268 int.-284 ex. (not at .50) and 450 int.-465 ex. lift. Mopar engineers knew what they were doing. |
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Expert
Posts: 1506
Location: Colo Spgs | Hola Yo'll
The Road Runner/ GTX Cam has a Max Torque listed at 3,200 RPM's. With a 2.9 Rear Axle Gear and The Diameter of The Tyre used --- relates to what vehicle speeds ???
Rodger & Gabby
Colo Spgs |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 7389
Location: northern germany | cruising,events and road trips? stock or comp 21-221-4 |
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Expert
Posts: 1739
Location: Alaska | If you are running 26" tires then 3200 rpm is about 84 mph. with 2.93 gears. If you are cruising at part throttle, you are not developing max torque so what are you asking? |
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Expert
Posts: 1506
Location: Colo Spgs | ... Rolland
All I was asking what is the vehicles speed if one uses The Road Runner/ GTX Spec'd Cam Shaft --- at its Max Torque RPM ( 3,200 ). You have
provided us with about 84 MPH. In your wording You also have stated this would be at much less Torque if a vehicle was being driven at Posted
Speeds ( Part throttle ).
Is it possible to learn what a Engine Speed will be if one has a 2.9 Rear Axle Ratio - 26 inch diameter tyres and the Vehicle Speed is at a steady 75 MPH ?
Rodger & Gabby
Colo Spgs
Edited by Rodger 2015-03-17 12:35 PM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 827
Location: tailFinland | 58coupe - 2015-03-14 10:07 AM
I think the extreme energy cam is a bit much for a cruiser with 2.93 gears. Why not run a cam that is close to the old 383-440 magnum( they are still available) something like 268 int.-284 ex. (not at .50) and 450 int.-465 ex. lift. Mopar engineers knew what they were doing.
Sounds good. Original camsaft specs were 268 and .430 lift on both and 115 lobe if I remember right. Since it is 1:10 engine you have to have a camsaft with quite big overlap. Modern camsafts are NO. Remember that diffderent centerline and lobe angle (from the original) changes engines behaviour even degrees and lifts are close to same. |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 7389
Location: northern germany | Adventurer 60 - 2015-03-17 5:35 PM
Original camsaft specs were 268 and .430 lift on both and 115 lobe if I remember right.
1960/61 383 252 and 389 lift optional 268/430
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Expert
Posts: 1739
Location: Alaska | Remember, these numbers are approximate depending on tire size. 75 MPH would be about 2840 Rpm but 26" is a little small if you run 15" tires more like 27" or 28" |
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Location: northern germany | anyone know the LSA of early big block cams? |
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Expert
Posts: 1739
Location: Alaska | I have never seen the LSA numbers listed for the early cams unless they are reproductions and then they may not be accurate. Just like duration was not listed at .50 for the old ones. |
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Expert 5K+
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Location: northern germany | from what i heard you have to multiply the advertised factory numbers by .850 to get duration at .50
so the standard factory cam for early 383s had around 214 at 50. with a degree wheel and dial gauge the lsa could be measured pretty easily. |
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Member
Posts: 23
| Contact Hughes Engines, they make fast rate of opening cams for Mopars (may as well use that .904 lifter). You'd probably want something in the 220@.050 or under with as much lift as possible. Hughes would be able to give you a good recommendation. What kind of intake are you going to run? |
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Expert
Posts: 1497
Location: Fairfax, Minnesota | WO23Coronet - 2015-03-21 5:05 PM Contact Hughes Engines, they make fast rate of opening cams for Mopars (may as well use that .904 lifter). You'd probably want something in the 220@.050 or under with as much lift as possible. Hughes would be able to give you a good recommendation. What kind of intake are you going to run? Thanks for the lead. They make it sound that even for them, picking a cam without all the information is a shot in the dark. I do not have a lot of the data they are asking for. I will give them what I have and see what they say. |
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Expert 5K+
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Location: northern germany | 1960fury - 2015-03-19 4:03 PM
from what i heard you have to multiply the advertised factory numbers by .850 to get duration at .50
so the standard factory cam for early 383s had around 214 at 50.
as i just found out, this is incorrect.
Edited by 1960fury 2015-09-27 1:09 PM
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 7389
Location: northern germany | 1960fury - 2015-03-18 3:03 PM
anyone know the LSA of early big block cams?
just in case anyone wants to know. its 111° for the 2 bbl cams and 110° for the hp cams (IF the duration/overlap numbers i read in a 1960 car magazine are correct). less (numerical) than i expected.
Edited by 1960fury 2015-09-27 1:08 PM
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Posts: 1497
Location: Fairfax, Minnesota | Since this thread has been restarted, I thought I should provide an update, I contacted 3 major cam manufactrers and none of them responded. We haven't had time this unusually busy summer to do anything with the engine, so little has been lost. One specification that was asked for by forum members was the tire diameter. I have 15" Mopar Road wheels with 235/75/15 tires- I think that equates to 29" diameter. I think this combination is equal in diameter to the 15" tire/wheel that was supplied on the 1961 300G. |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 7389
Location: northern germany | have you contacted "comp cams"? they are usually very helpful. at least they had a good customer service 3 years ago. |
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Temporarily suspended to cool off
Posts: 316
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P4120237AE
the 292/292 hydraulic cam. She'll idle low enough that the stock torque converter won't be an issue, it'll have good low end and great mid range. Use a set of rhoads lifters with it to get a decent idle.
Alternatively, you can use the stock lifters with PN P4452783AE which will idle well with the stock lifters, offers considerably less overlap than the 292/292 unit.
Either choice will need an upgrade in springs, and a new set of lifters to ensure proper break in.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/dcc-4120237ae/overview/
Of course there are lots of other cams out there, but purple shafts always seem to just work.
Edited by Polybun 2015-09-27 6:57 PM
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Expert
Posts: 3575
Location: Netherlands | Just as Mopar has written once in their Engine Manual, the Mopar purple hydraulic 284 adv. dur. cam is about the largest cam you use with a stock convertor.
I've had that cam in a high cr 440 in a heavy '67 Newport and they were right.
With those large tires and long gearratio it would indeed get a cam that builds torque from idle rpms upto 4500-5000 rpm. That means getting a cam with a close to a stock-ish duration, with 268 as a max. duration. Anything more and it will move the engine's powerband higher in the rpm-range, making it feel sluggish at low rpms.
You might even consider getting 1.6 ratio rockers to gain some more lift, which usually makes a bit more torque without increasing duration too much (read: drop engine vacuum).
Even shorty headers will help in a big way letting the engine breathe a bit better than with castiron manifolds.
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Expert
Posts: 1506
Location: Colo Spgs | Hola Ray
You have been informed on a bunch of Cam Shaft Spec's that are beyond what you will be operating at. If you weigh what was a "Performance Cam Shaft" in the era that is before
1963 --- you will find out they are all A Solid Lifter Design. If you accept the information of a Road Runner/ GTX and etc Unit you know these are OK if you keep your Vehicle Speed
above any Posted Speed Limit or down shift so that you are keeping The RPM's in that Cam's Operating Range.
Take a moment and look at The Operating Range and Spec Data of MoPar's P4286675 Cam Spec's. Also learn what MoPar Engines used this unit. Places such as Rock Auto have this item.
If the number confuses some --- just say 1970 383 or 440 in any Plymouth - Dodge - Chrysler or Imperial Division.
If it was installed for over a decade in engines from 426 RB's - 383's - 413's and 440's too ---- why not your engine too.
Rodger & Gabby
Colo Spgs
psst
Build to Quality --- not to price |
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Expert
Posts: 3774
Location: NorCal | Many of the aftermarket cams are based on generic profiles that are developed for the smaller diameter GM lifters, Hughes Engines grinds their cams for the .904" Mopar lifter which is more forgiving of rapid-lift lobes.
http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/products.php?browse=category&lev...
A cam with a LSA in the 112-113° neighborhood will perform better with tall gears and tight converters.
Edited by 57chizler 2015-09-29 3:25 PM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1117
Location: STL, MO | Call Hughes or Racer Brown. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 888
Location: Peoples Republic of Oregon | Yeah, a bit late to the party...
Cam selection is a black art in most applications. I'll suggest that you forego the hot-rod profiles and just use a stock profile for something like a 70-73 NYer with a 440. They certainly had mild manners, had plenty of low speed grunt and were not light weights.
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Expert
Posts: 2002
Location: Branson, MO | wayfarer is right with his recommendation of the stock '70 to '73 NY 440 cam. These big boats were heavy, had lower ratio (higher speed) rear end ratios, and larger diameter tires. These NY's performed reasonably well and got decent fuel economy for the day. This cam has everything you are looking for at low cost to boot. Add a set of shorty headers with an "H" pipe dual exhaust system and you are in business. Set the timing at 10 degrees BTC and include electronic ignition.
Try it, you'll like it!
"It's delightful, it's delovely, it's DeSoto"
Edited by Viper Guy 2015-10-23 11:44 PM
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 7389
Location: northern germany | these get 38° btdc max mechanical advance, this is mostly 12° btdc at idle. |
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Expert
Posts: 2002
Location: Branson, MO | 10 degrees BTC at idle works best with today's lower octane.
"It's delightful, it's delovely, it's DeSoto" |
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Veteran
Posts: 295
Location: Tallapoosa, GA |
I was thinking on going with an RV torquer cam in my 383. |
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Expert
Posts: 1506
Location: Colo Spgs | ... Hola Chris
If your 383 is a 1964 to 1966 factory 4 bbl with factory Dual Exhaust ( MoPar's P4286675 ) or any 1968 - 1971 383 and is a two bbl --- it has what later was called "the RV/ Torque Cam Spec's".
The same Cam ( MoPar's P4286675 ) was used in every "common" 440 from 1968 to 1971.
The same Cam ( MoPar's P4286675 ) was used in every Imperial Division Engine that uses ... The HP 440
The same Cam ( MoPar's P4286675 ) was used in every 1968 and newer BB/ RM that had a Tow Package.
Change it to a three bolt pattern to attach The Timing Gear Sprocket and it is what some company's call "their best Cam".
Look at the Torque and RPM Spec's are on engine's that use this ( or after market copies ) Cam Shaft.
......................
It has more "Spaghetti Sauce" that is where to bite than what Ray's and other like year BB/ RB Engines came with.
Rodger and Gabby
Colo Spgs
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Cam recommendation for 383 b block
