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57-61 big block headers?
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Moparward
Posted 2015-03-25 9:48 AM (#473414)
Subject: 57-61 big block headers?


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Posts: 1

I want to put headers on my big block (413) 59 Desoto. What fits? B-body? C-body? Brands?
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WO23Coronet
Posted 2015-03-25 12:52 PM (#473428 - in reply to #473414)
Subject: RE: 57-61 big block headers?


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Posts: 23

Good timing as I'm curious as well, was just about to post when I saw yours
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Rodger
Posted 2015-03-25 1:45 PM (#473435 - in reply to #473414)
Subject: Re: 57-61 big block headers?


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Hola Yo'll

You may start by using an item that consumes less power from your engine. By using this it "free's up" power starting at about 1,600 RPM's and is still this
way until you meet your Red-Line ( Note ... The Red-Line of any 361-383 or 400 is always more than any 413 or 440 ).


http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?R=TEM27130... ( if you are not informed about this - and why it helps - do ask ).



Rodger and Gabby
COS
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WO23Coronet
Posted 2015-03-25 2:03 PM (#473436 - in reply to #473435)
Subject: Re: 57-61 big block headers?


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Posts: 23

Is that link for a clutch fan? If so they do help but an answer for headers would be nice, a good set of headers helps right from the basement (idle) to redline
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mstrug
Posted 2015-03-25 3:14 PM (#473441 - in reply to #473414)
Subject: Re: 57-61 big block headers?



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Headers-Headers-HEADERS!
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mstrug
Posted 2015-03-25 3:14 PM (#473442 - in reply to #473435)
Subject: Re: 57-61 big block headers?



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Rodger - 2015-03-25 12:45 PM

Hola Yo'll

You may start by using an item that consumes less power from your engine. By using this it "free's up" power starting at about 1,600 RPM's and is still this
way until you meet your Red-Line ( Note ... The Red-Line of any 361-383 or 400 is always more than any 413 or 440 ).


http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?R=TEM27130... ( if you are not informed about this - and why it helps - do ask ).



Rodger and Gabby
COS


wtf?
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narleycharlie
Posted 2015-04-05 11:30 AM (#474420 - in reply to #473414)
Subject: Re: 57-61 big block headers?



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The only headers that bolt up with minor dinging to clear a few things are shorty headers by Hedman headers. Beats the logs.
I have a set on my 59 Plymouth..

Edited by narleycharlie 2015-04-05 11:32 AM
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60 dart
Posted 2015-04-05 3:07 PM (#474445 - in reply to #473414)
Subject: Re: 57-61 big block headers?



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i've been leaning towards these --------------------------------------------------later

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chrysler-Shorty-Swap-Headers-1959-1978-Big-...

mainly because of cost ! not a whole lot of lower cost headers anywhere or at least i haven't found em ! ,,,,,,,,,,,,,, but i'd rather have natural steel
that are easier to play with .
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BigBlockMopar
Posted 2015-04-06 4:19 AM (#474486 - in reply to #473414)
Subject: Re: 57-61 big block headers?



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As said, full length headers are no-go in early Mopars.
Mainly because of the steeringbox mounted on the frame near the firewall.
I've been trying to fab full length headers on a '64 Chrysler once but wasn't happy with the tubes running right along the steeringbox, most likely cooking the inner oilseal in no time.

The only ones that works with minor clearancing on the left motormount are the shorties. Headman Shorties shown below.
One issue is they end up the exhaust between the torsionbars, so you'll have to swing around back to the outside again when going under the transmission crossmember.












Edited by BigBlockMopar 2015-04-06 4:26 AM
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longram60
Posted 2015-04-06 10:25 AM (#474505 - in reply to #473414)
Subject: Re: 57-61 big block headers?



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Sanderson block hugger headers on mine. No issues with fit:

http://www.sandersonheaders.com/Sanderson-DD2-Chrysler-383-440-V8-B...

Oh, the aftermarket angle plug heads shown above might be an issue, I use aftermarket straight plug heads (like stock).



Edited by longram60 2015-04-06 10:30 AM
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Sonoramic60
Posted 2015-04-06 12:38 PM (#474514 - in reply to #474505)
Subject: Re: 57-61 big block headers?


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Lads --
The '61 Dart Pioneer 2-dr h/t that the Ramchargers campaigned in the 1961 NHRA Super Stock class had long tubular steel headers that were fabricated primarily by Dan Mancini with assistance from Tom Hoover. Because of the steering and suspension issues, they were routed straight out to the tops of the fender well (which were almost completely removed) then looped down over and outside of the front wheels. A pic of them can be found by going to the "Wild about Cars" website of the Automotive History Preservation Society or you can just Google "The Ramchargers '61 Dart and you'll find lots of info and photos.
I have heard that they were developed to improve exhaust flow and were not "tuned."
Joe Godec
'57 Chrysler 300C, '60 Fury SonoRamic Commando. '65 Fuel-Injected Vette
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BigBlockMopar
Posted 2015-04-06 2:21 PM (#474526 - in reply to #473414)
Subject: RE: 57-61 big block headers?



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I've been busy in the past fabbing up headers for my '64 Chrysler (headers would fit earlier models as well), but as I said aobve, the pass.side tubes ended up very close to the box and torsion bar on the other side.
The header would have resonated against the torsion bar or steeringbox, and would for sure need solid motormounts installed to prevent more damage.
Too close for comfort for me so I never really dared to use them in another car.












Edited by BigBlockMopar 2015-04-06 2:23 PM
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WO23Coronet
Posted 2015-04-07 10:27 PM (#474697 - in reply to #474526)
Subject: RE: 57-61 big block headers?


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Posts: 23

Looks like I'll be going with the Hedmann shorties.
BTW, what kind of headers did you start with for your custom full lengths? I've got a set of B body headers (U/K brand) that I MAY chop up and see if I could make them work

Edited by WO23Coronet 2015-04-07 10:44 PM
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BigBlockMopar
Posted 2015-04-08 3:08 AM (#474721 - in reply to #473414)
Subject: Re: 57-61 big block headers?



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I used a combination of b-body headers and a set of Motorhome headers which were sent to me wrongly once by Summit because those clowns had them marked to be used for "big Chrysler".
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Rodger
Posted 2015-04-09 3:38 PM (#474853 - in reply to #473414)
Subject: Re: 57-61 big block headers?


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Hola All

If one is seeking "header's" because they want them --- then stop now.

If one wants something that is Engineer Planned and Dyno Proven to enhance the power of any center dumping Exhaust Manifold Unit - then please continue.

As we all know The Center Dump Exhaust Manifold "went away" in The Car Division's. This unit came back in Dodge Trucks and was re-Engineered staring
in 1972 to have a higher Flow Rate than what was used with The HP Exhaust Manifolds of any snorting Dodge GTX or Plymouth Road runner.

At the same time folks who want something more that what they have - are told the only option is to buy a set of shorties. Not knowing and not wanting anything
that appears as OEM --- they get a set of shorties.

Here is a 1 - 2 - 3 that does not require a Hammer, nor does it need to be with a heat shield between it and The Starter Motor.

http://www.1aauto.com/exhaust-manifold/i/1aeem00081?f=378652

The matching Muffler that will do the same Power Enhancement - but not also to your wallet is a ... http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx/Muffler-Qu... .

If you have started off with a .... http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?R=TEM27130... this is the number one of this Power Enhancement.




Rodger & Gabby
COS
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BigBlockMopar
Posted 2015-04-09 4:48 PM (#474859 - in reply to #473414)
Subject: Re: 57-61 big block headers?



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Rodger, you might want to do some reading up on headertube technology and exhaust gas scavenging and why this works.
Magazines have tested and written articles about these things for years and their comparison tests can be found online with a few searches.
The cheapest, even shorty, header available will outperform ANY castiron log manifold.

Do headers give headaches sometimes, installation, bolts working themselves loose? Yes.
Do they provide more torque and horsepower? Yes.
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1960fury
Posted 2015-04-09 5:32 PM (#474867 - in reply to #474859)
Subject: Re: 57-61 big block headers?



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BigBlockMopar - 2015-04-09 4:48 PM


The cheapest, even shorty, header available will outperform ANY castiron log manifold.




that is correct. i remember a dyno test between the headman shorties (not a good design) and the factory mopar bb high performance cast iron manifold. don't remember the numbers but the shorties outperformed them clearly. and headers weight ALLOT less, it was a night and day difference in handling after i switched to headers. just that was worth the time fabricating them. also allot less blowby at wot and no longer oil on the valve cover under the breather. the large chevy big block heat risers work perfectly with headers.
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1960fury
Posted 2015-04-09 5:42 PM (#474870 - in reply to #474867)
Subject: Re: 57-61 big block headers?



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high performance bb factory factory manifold vs headers (i'm aware that the results with a stock engine would be less dramatic):

http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/mopp-0106-manifolds-vs-headers/

Horsepower
RPM Manifold Shorty Elite
3000 256.2 260.9 271.7
3200 274.0 275.9 289.0
3400 295.5 297.0 319.1
3600 310.0 325.0 350.0
3800 330.1 351.9 380.7
{{{4000}}} 353.9 378.0 {{{405}}}.8
4200 375.1 401.9 429.2
4400 381.8 423.4 447.7
4600 402.5 439.1 464.1
4800 402.3 450.5 474.9
{{{5000}}} 405.4 463.2 481.3
5200 408.9 471.8 488.0
5400 422.2 478.8 492.3
5600 416.8 474.6 489.5
5800 411.9 468.1 487.1


Torque
RPM Manifold Shorty Elite
3000 448.5 456.7 475.7
3200 449.8 452.8 474.4
3400 456.5 458.8 492.9
3600 452.3 474.1 510.6
3800 456.2 486.3 526.1
4000 464.6 496.3 532.8
4200 469.1 502.6 536.7
4400 455.7 {{{505}}}.4 534.4
4600 459.6 501.4 529.9
4800 440.2 492.9 519.7
5000 425.8 486.6 505.5
5200 413.0 476.5 493.2
5400 410.6 465.7 478.8
5600 390.9 445.2 459.1
5800 373.0 423.9 441.1




Edited by 1960fury 2015-04-09 5:49 PM
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Rodger
Posted 2015-04-09 6:46 PM (#474881 - in reply to #473414)
Subject: Re: 57-61 big block headers?


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Hola Yo'll

You are correct - with a engine that has a Max Torque listed at 2,800 RPM's and is used for street driving or sometimes out on The Open Roads ---
one should have shorties.

The other plus in their article is the same user needs to make sure they have The "newer" Mini Starter.




Rodger & Gabby
COS

Edited by Rodger 2015-04-09 6:48 PM
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WO23Coronet
Posted 2015-04-09 9:54 PM (#474904 - in reply to #474881)
Subject: Re: 57-61 big block headers?


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Posts: 23

Actually you want longtube headers for low end torque, shorties are for high end horsepower technically (although in our realm we'll never get there)
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61sene
Posted 2015-06-20 3:51 AM (#482088 - in reply to #473414)
Subject: Re: 57-61 big block headers?



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A body fenderwell headers, if you don't mind cutting up your inner fenderwells and don't mind spending the $$$ for them. Got a friend who seen em on a forward look car and said the guy was running factory size tires with no issue. I just wonder about weather or not it's gonna run real close to the master cylinder and heat it up alot?

Edited by 61sene 2015-06-20 3:55 AM
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JT Vincent
Posted 2015-06-23 12:16 AM (#482442 - in reply to #473414)
Subject: Re: 57-61 big block headers?



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I think this is a great thread. There are other considerations... do you want to be able to easily change your spark plugs? Are you prepared for warpage after a couple of years? Does your state or country allow the noise increase most headers cause? Whether B block headers improve the performance of your motor is very complicated and varies based on joules vs revolution, induction, compression, the detonation properties of the fuel you have, ignition characteristics, and air-flow through the intake and heads. I strongly advise no one try Tom Hoover style engineering in their garage. He was a master physicist who could create crazy induction and exhaust systems free-hand. Most of us need computers, dynos and thousands of dollars for that sort of thing. That said, if you want headers on your 413, I'd go with Hedman shorties. The B body Hedmans won't fit.
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1960fury
Posted 2015-06-23 8:58 AM (#482469 - in reply to #482442)
Subject: Re: 57-61 big block headers?



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here are my modified shorties. they work great, weight a fraction of the cast iron manifolds and use a 2.1/2" heat riser (oe is 2" for 383/413 sized engines!) and they now exit on the correct side of the t-bars and the pipe can be routed thru the recess in the crossmember, the ground clearance is not reduced.

Edited by 1960fury 2015-06-23 9:02 AM




(shorty.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments shorty.jpg (20KB - 372 downloads)
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Tragic Wagon
Posted 2015-06-27 12:49 AM (#482912 - in reply to #474853)
Subject: Re: 57-61 big block headers?



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Rodger - 2015-04-09 2:38 PM


Hola All

If one is seeking "header's" because they want them --- then stop now.

If one wants something that is Engineer Planned and Dyno Proven to enhance the power of any center dumping Exhaust Manifold Unit - then please continue.

As we all know The Center Dump Exhaust Manifold "went away" in The Car Division's. This unit came back in Dodge Trucks and was re-Engineered staring
in 1972 to have a higher Flow Rate than what was used with The HP Exhaust Manifolds of any snorting Dodge GTX or Plymouth Road runner.

At the same time folks who want something more that what they have - are told the only option is to buy a set of shorties. Not knowing and not wanting anything
that appears as OEM --- they get a set of shorties.

Here is a 1 - 2 - 3 that does not require a Hammer, nor does it need to be with a heat shield between it and The Starter Motor.

http://www.1aauto.com/exhaust-manifold/i/1aeem00081?f=378652

The matching Muffler that will do the same Power Enhancement - but not also to your wallet is a ... http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx/Muffler-Qu... .

If you have started off with a .... http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?R=TEM27130... this is the number one of this Power Enhancement.




Rodger & Gabby
COS

No.

Truck manifolds are terrible for performance. They don't flow worth a darn, having been designed for low-compression, emissions-cammed engines whose automatic transmissions had a 4,200RPM full-throttle upshift. Every HP B/RB design, even the later '70s stuff, trounces them for flow. They're truly awful. No matter, since they only fit trucks. Tubular headers are far better performers than any readily-available cast-iron design. Perhaps you're confusing them with Chevrolet's overrated "ram's horn" small-block manifolds?

Walker's Quiet Flow line is their cheapest, one-size-fits-none alternative to a proper direct-fit muffler. It is not a performance line in the least. They're cheaply made and have small internal flow tubes. They're potentially the worst muffler you could put on a performance car. Walker has an entire performance line called DynoMax. You will not find any Quiet Flow mufflers in their literature or site.

We are talking about headers, and while your repeated links to fan clutches are in fact exhausting, they're not relevant. Besides, a fan clutch is nowhere near the performance improvement one gains with headers.

.
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Polybun
Posted 2015-06-27 11:25 AM (#482940 - in reply to #473435)
Subject: Re: 57-61 big block headers?



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well, someone's on drugs again.
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Polybun
Posted 2015-06-27 11:26 AM (#482941 - in reply to #474445)
Subject: Re: 57-61 big block headers?



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I don't understand why nobody makes a setup like that for the polyhead. Guess it's time t oget the tig machine out!
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Polybun
Posted 2015-06-27 11:30 AM (#482942 - in reply to #474853)
Subject: Re: 57-61 big block headers?



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Rodger - 2015-04-09 12:38 PM


Hola All

If one is seeking "header's" because they want them --- then stop now.

If one wants something that is Engineer Planned and Dyno Proven to enhance the power of any center dumping Exhaust Manifold Unit - then please continue.

As we all know The Center Dump Exhaust Manifold "went away" in The Car Division's. This unit came back in Dodge Trucks and was re-Engineered staring
in 1972 to have a higher Flow Rate than what was used with The HP Exhaust Manifolds of any snorting Dodge GTX or Plymouth Road runner.

At the same time folks who want something more that what they have - are told the only option is to buy a set of shorties. Not knowing and not wanting anything
that appears as OEM --- they get a set of shorties.

Here is a 1 - 2 - 3 that does not require a Hammer, nor does it need to be with a heat shield between it and The Starter Motor.

http://www.1aauto.com/exhaust-manifold/i/1aeem00081?f=378652

The matching Muffler that will do the same Power Enhancement - but not also to your wallet is a ... http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx/Muffler-Qu... .

If you have started off with a .... http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?R=TEM27130... this is the number one of this Power Enhancement.




Rodger & Gabby
COS


why are you dumb?
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BlueGhost
Posted 2016-01-28 6:00 PM (#502602 - in reply to #473414)
Subject: Re: 57-61 big block headers?



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Does anyone know if the Hedman shorties work better with a B or an RB block? Are there less clearance issue with either style block? I have a 440 that needs a rebuild, but I'm thinking about building a 451 instead if I can find a 400 block.
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wayfarer
Posted 2016-01-28 7:57 PM (#502613 - in reply to #473414)
Subject: Re: 57-61 big block headers?



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The exhaust flange plane does sit a bit lower on the B series and just a hair closer to the centerline but probably not enough to matter with the shorties.
I recall way back in the old days that some header brands would fit one engine better that the other but it was likely due to the mfgr using only one engine
for fab and not verifying the other.
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Fury 58
Posted 2017-06-23 10:35 PM (#542748 - in reply to #474870)
Subject: Re: 57-61 big block headers?


Member

Posts: 13

1960fury - 2015-04-09 5:42 PM

high performance bb factory factory manifold vs headers (i'm aware that the results with a stock engine would be less dramatic):

http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/mopp-0106-manifolds-vs-headers/

Horsepower
RPM Manifold Shorty Elite
3000 256.2 260.9 271.7
3200 274.0 275.9 289.0
3400 295.5 297.0 319.1
3600 310.0 325.0 350.0
3800 330.1 351.9 380.7
{{{4000}}} 353.9 378.0 {{{405}}}.8
4200 375.1 401.9 429.2
4400 381.8 423.4 447.7
4600 402.5 439.1 464.1
4800 402.3 450.5 474.9
{{{5000}}} 405.4 463.2 481.3
5200 408.9 471.8 488.0
5400 422.2 478.8 492.3
5600 416.8 474.6 489.5
5800 411.9 468.1 487.1


Torque
RPM Manifold Shorty Elite
3000 448.5 456.7 475.7
3200 449.8 452.8 474.4
3400 456.5 458.8 492.9
3600 452.3 474.1 510.6
3800 456.2 486.3 526.1
4000 464.6 496.3 532.8
4200 469.1 502.6 536.7
4400 455.7 {{{505}}}.4 534.4
4600 459.6 501.4 529.9
4800 440.2 492.9 519.7
5000 425.8 486.6 505.5
5200 413.0 476.5 493.2
5400 410.6 465.7 478.8
5600 390.9 445.2 459.1
5800 373.0 423.9 441.1




This is an old thread, but I just came upon it and had to comment.

The factory manifolds used in the test were the 383-440 Magnum hp exhaust manifolds. These went up the Hedman Shorties and the full length Elites.

Comparing the old log manifolds found in the 58 on up FL cars to the Shorty and Elite headers the horsepower and torque increases would be even more staggering.

I'm leaning toward the Hedman Shorty Headers rather than the Sanderson Shorty, because the primary length of the Hedman Headers are longer. More hp and especially torque vs the Sanderson, is my guess.

Edited by Fury 58 2017-06-23 10:40 PM
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mstrug
Posted 2017-06-24 5:15 AM (#542761 - in reply to #473414)
Subject: Re: 57-61 big block headers?



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New Sanderson link:

https://www.sandersonheaders.com/sanderson-dd2-header-set-for-big-bl...

Hedman e body 440:

http://www.jegs.com/i/Hedman/500/78070/10002/-1?CAWELAID=1710537206...

http://pitstopusa.com/i-23903595-hedman-hedders-painted-hedders-66-...

https://www.amazon.com/Hedman-78070-Standard-Duty-Uncoated-Hedders/d...

Edited by mstrug 2017-06-24 5:22 AM
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Powerflite
Posted 2017-06-24 10:45 AM (#542773 - in reply to #542761)
Subject: Re: 57-61 big block headers?



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I wouldn't purchase either of those options. The reason why headers are so annoyingly loud is because they are made with super thin 18 gauge tubes. Just make them a little thicker and the noise goes down dramatically. I would be inclined to purchase Headman Elite headers with 14 gauge tubes & ball socket collectors and modify them to make them work. At least the Sanderson's are 16 gauge, so those would be better, but I don't like how they dump the collector straight down. Makes it a pain to snake a decent tube in there. Not only that, but they are too expensive for what you are getting.

Edited by Powerflite 2017-06-24 10:50 AM
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wayfarer
Posted 2017-06-24 11:59 AM (#542778 - in reply to #473414)
Subject: Re: 57-61 big block headers?



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As Herman noted earlier, making a set of tube headers is a real PITA. Been there. If you have a need, lots-o-patience, lot-o-welding skills and a long term place to park the car while you work it all out, then go for it.

There is a company (no, cannot find the name...) that will send you a mock-up package and you route the tubes then they make the finished header based on your mock-up. This was shown on another forum...too many forums to search......
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mstrug
Posted 2017-06-24 12:06 PM (#542779 - in reply to #473414)
Subject: Re: 57-61 big block headers?



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google header legos:

http://www.hotrod.com/articles/hrdp-1111-header-modeling-kit-build-...
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1960fury
Posted 2017-06-24 3:09 PM (#542791 - in reply to #542773)
Subject: Re: 57-61 big block headers?



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Powerflite - 2017-06-24 10:45 AM

I wouldn't purchase either of those options. The reason why headers are so annoyingly loud is because they are made with super thin 18 gauge tubes.


they aren't neccessary louder. changed to modified hedman shortys years ago, everything else was left unchanged (only lost the H pipe, which muffles noise too) and the car was alot quiter than with the stock cast manifolds. i was really surprised. a friend said its because i bolted the headers to the engine/transmission too at the collector flange but i don't think that makes a big or any difference.
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Fury 58
Posted 2017-06-24 3:41 PM (#542793 - in reply to #542791)
Subject: Re: 57-61 big block headers?


Member

Posts: 13

1960fury - 2017-06-24 3:09 PM

Powerflite - 2017-06-24 10:45 AM

I wouldn't purchase either of those options. The reason why headers are so annoyingly loud is because they are made with super thin 18 gauge tubes.


they aren't neccessary louder. changed to modified hedman shortys years ago, everything else was left unchanged (only lost the H pipe, which muffles noise too) and the car was alot quiter than with the stock cast manifolds. i was really surprised. a friend said its because i bolted the headers to the engine/transmission too at the collector flange but i don't think that makes a big or any difference.


Do you remember what mods to the Hedman Shorty Headers you did?

How tough are they to bend? How do you do it? I've never modded headers.

Edited by Fury 58 2017-06-24 4:49 PM
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Fury 58
Posted 2017-06-25 10:09 PM (#542861 - in reply to #542791)
Subject: Re: 57-61 big block headers?


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Posts: 13

1960fury - 2017-06-24 3:09 PM

Powerflite - 2017-06-24 10:45 AM

I wouldn't purchase either of those options. The reason why headers are so annoyingly loud is because they are made with super thin 18 gauge tubes.


they aren't neccessary louder. changed to modified hedman shortys years ago, everything else was left unchanged (only lost the H pipe, which muffles noise too) and the car was alot quiter than with the stock cast manifolds. i was really surprised. a friend said its because i bolted the headers to the engine/transmission too at the collector flange but i don't think that makes a big or any difference.


What about adding a flexible section of 2.5" pipe somewhere between the header collector and the rest of the exhaust system? Like a six or ten inch sections I see available? I would think that would isolate noise from an exhaust system better than solidly securing it direct to, what, your transmission?

Just spit balling here.
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1960fury
Posted 2017-06-26 6:59 AM (#542880 - in reply to #542793)
Subject: Re: 57-61 big block headers?



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Fury 58 - 2017-06-24 3:41 PM

1960fury - 2017-06-24 3:09 PM

Powerflite - 2017-06-24 10:45 AM

I wouldn't purchase either of those options. The reason why headers are so annoyingly loud is because they are made with super thin 18 gauge tubes.


they aren't neccessary louder. changed to modified hedman shortys years ago, everything else was left unchanged (only lost the H pipe, which muffles noise too) and the car was alot quiter than with the stock cast manifolds. i was really surprised. a friend said its because i bolted the headers to the engine/transmission too at the collector flange but i don't think that makes a big or any difference.


Do you remember what mods to the Hedman Shorty Headers you did?

How tough are they to bend? How do you do it? I've never modded headers.


will try to post some pictures. bassically i cut them appart and only used the flanges and collector. could as well have build them from scratch. so not very smart to buy a set of pricey headers but when i did i didn't know that they have the outlet flange on the wrong side of the t-bars.
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1960fury
Posted 2017-06-26 7:06 AM (#542881 - in reply to #542861)
Subject: Re: 57-61 big block headers?



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Fury 58 - 2017-06-25 10:09 PM

1960fury - 2017-06-24 3:09 PM

Powerflite - 2017-06-24 10:45 AM

I wouldn't purchase either of those options. The reason why headers are so annoyingly loud is because they are made with super thin 18 gauge tubes.


they aren't neccessary louder. changed to modified hedman shortys years ago, everything else was left unchanged (only lost the H pipe, which muffles noise too) and the car was alot quiter than with the stock cast manifolds. i was really surprised. a friend said its because i bolted the headers to the engine/transmission too at the collector flange but i don't think that makes a big or any difference.


What about adding a flexible section of 2.5" pipe somewhere between the header collector and the rest of the exhaust system? Like a six or ten inch sections I see available? I would think that would isolate noise from an exhaust system better than solidly securing it direct to, what, your transmission?

Just spit balling here.


not the exhaust system. just supported the outlet flange of the shortys (or semi full length headers after my mods). headers are not supposed to move like the rest of the exhaust system and will last longer that way. they get real hot and the slightest vibration or force could make them crack or distort when they are red hot.
i'm good with a welder and like metal fabrication but building headers is NOT fun and after you installed and removed them billions of times after each welding you want them to last!!!

a crossover pipe between the collectors would kill the heat riser function.
i always wanted to add a crossover tube to the ex pipe but until now i didn't have the time or was too lazy to do it.



Edited by 1960fury 2017-06-26 7:19 AM
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Fury 58
Posted 2017-06-26 10:31 AM (#542884 - in reply to #473414)
Subject: Re: 57-61 big block headers?


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My God, what a mess.

So, what you're saying is that the Hedman Shorty Headers are a no-fit, really.

I need somebody in New England who is sooo good at fabricating headers that they can do it in their sleep.

It's way above my abilities.
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wayfarer
Posted 2017-06-26 10:37 AM (#542885 - in reply to #542884)
Subject: Re: 57-61 big block headers?



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Found it............... http://www.gpheaders.com/
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1960fury
Posted 2017-06-26 3:41 PM (#542902 - in reply to #542884)
Subject: Re: 57-61 big block headers?



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Fury 58 - 2017-06-26 10:31 AM

My God, what a mess.

So, what you're saying is that the Hedman Shorty Headers are a no-fit, really.

I need somebody in New England who is sooo good at fabricating headers that they can do it in their sleep.

It's way above my abilities.


it might work with an RB if you can live with the wrong exit inside of the t-bars and the resulting reduction in ground clearance (my car is lowered).
that said, the hedman shorty collector is such a crappy design that you will probably change that anyway.
i wonder how the dyno numbers above would have turned out if they would have run the shortys with good collectors.
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BigBlockMopar
Posted 2017-06-26 5:30 PM (#542910 - in reply to #473414)
Subject: RE: 57-61 big block headers?



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I've been looking at the shorty's a couple of times and wondered how much they would benefit by just having a longer collector, while being angled away to the outside of the torsionbars.
At the time I was making my exhaust I wanted to drive the car as soon as possible so I didn't take enough time to fix the issues of these shorty headers.

My '60, with its pics of the shorty's above, is lowered quite some as well but I have made sure when I cobbled the under&up bends together, to keep ground clearance at a maximum.
The exhaust tubes sit slightly higher than the chassis frame rails, so it won't hit anything.



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