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Pre 62 poly 318 oil pump priming
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fenix
Posted 2015-03-29 1:05 PM (#473776)
Subject: Pre 62 poly 318 oil pump priming



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Anyone done this, is there a priming rod available? or is it make your own, remember, the hex won't work on these.

Roger
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hoodinki
Posted 2015-03-29 3:18 PM (#473784 - in reply to #473776)
Subject: Re: Pre 62 poly 318 oil pump priming


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The oil pump presents a big fat blade like a slotted screw driver. Unfortunately, the distributor and the cam gear under it have to be taken out to drive the oil pump, putting the gear back in right can be a trick. An alternative is to remove the oil pressure sender next to the distributor and use an electric pump to pump oil into the tap. Remember to rotate the crank while doing this so the cam's oil slots visit all the positions needed to channel oil up to the rocker shafts.

An easy way to make an oil pump spinning tool is to slot open the female end of a long 1/4" socket extension, then drive the male end with a portable electric reversible drill.

Edited by hoodinki 2015-03-29 3:20 PM
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fenix
Posted 2015-03-29 5:16 PM (#473793 - in reply to #473784)
Subject: Re: Pre 62 poly 318 oil pump priming



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Thanks Hoodinki, gave me an idea, I have a 1/4" drive extension about 2 feet long, I'm thinking of taking an old socket, slot it and pin it, and use it on the end and 1/4" to 3/8" adapter. My fear is chewing up the intermediate shafts bronze bushing.
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60 dart
Posted 2015-03-29 7:45 PM (#473816 - in reply to #473776)
Subject: Re: Pre 62 poly 318 oil pump priming



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get an old poly oil pump drive gear ( the shaft under the dist. with the gear) grind all the teeth off the gear . clean it up real clean , drop it back in . then get a piece of 1/2 "dia smooth rod @
6-8" long and cut it to fit the center of the pump drive gear you dropped back in . you can now use any 1/2" drill to pump the oil up at a pretty good RPM ---------------------------------later
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fenix
Posted 2015-03-30 9:40 AM (#473844 - in reply to #473776)
Subject: Re: Pre 62 poly 318 oil pump priming



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Sounds like a great idea Chuck, and I see exactly what ya mean, the shaft would align perfectly with the pump drive shaft and the modified intermediate shaft would "ride" on the bushing and assure perfect alignment and depth. Next question is: anyone have an old pre 62 intermediate shaft for sale?

Edited by fenix 2015-03-30 9:49 AM
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fenix
Posted 2015-03-31 2:48 PM (#473987 - in reply to #473776)
Subject: Re: Pre 62 poly 318 oil pump priming



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Okay, I made a oil pump spinning tool from an 18" 3/8 drive extension. I bought a purolator 30001 ( PH8A ) and filled it with oil and installed it, I poured the 4 1/2 quarts down the lifter valley, I hooked up a 0 - 80 oil pressure guage. I used a cordless drill to spin the pump clockwise, by slowly, and I mean slowly, I have max pressure, 80 psi, even if I take a rachet and turn it I can get 20 psi. I took the base and center double threaded hollow pipe the filter screws onto from the 66 Poly 318, thats the only modification except a new pump, the pickup was vatted clean.
My best guess is the oil isn't flowing through the filter, cam bearings installed wrong, pressure relief valve miss adjusted, what am I missing here?
Yes I'm kicking myself severely in the rearend for not pressurizing the oil system while it was on the stand
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DepsilonD
Posted 2015-03-31 6:43 PM (#474005 - in reply to #473776)
Subject: Re: Pre 62 poly 318 oil pump priming



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fenix,

I know you are a member of the Yahoo Poly Group, you may want to hit them up.

David
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ttotired
Posted 2015-03-31 7:15 PM (#474016 - in reply to #473776)
Subject: Re: Pre 62 poly 318 oil pump priming



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Not exactly sure, but have you turned the engine while turning the pump just in case nothing is lined up?

To be getting oil pressure while turning it with a ratchet means the oil pump gears are sealing very well together (grease in the pump?)

If you havnt rolled the engine over a few times, it could just come down to assembly lube, grease ect in the bearings and galleries that hasnt been cleared through yet

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60 dart
Posted 2015-04-01 12:10 AM (#474062 - in reply to #473776)
Subject: Re: Pre 62 poly 318 oil pump priming



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you got something blocked off , after the oil pressure hole . i know you got everything nice and clean but pull the filter catch the oil while turning the pump . if any bearings were off center , they'd all have to
be off center . what are the screws you talk about around the filter plate . a good rebuild pressure should be 50-55 lbs. , but can vary a touch . oh , i just read again , you messed with the relief valve ? that'd be
the second choice . i've changed over 5 filter locations in the past and not one has given me grief by just changing to an adaptor , darned common sense -------------------------------------later
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fenix
Posted 2015-04-01 5:50 AM (#474078 - in reply to #473776)
Subject: Re: Pre 62 poly 318 oil pump priming



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Thanks for the replies.

I pulled the filter and ran the pump, I would think with 90 psi showing on the guage, oil would be pouring out of the block, it doesn't seem to be enough volumn to me. I emptied the oil filter and reinstalled, i didn't keep track of the time, but when i removed a few minutes later it was full of oil.
The relief valve was not touched, I looked at the oil diagram and see it's a straight shot to the sending unit and then to and through the filter to the block, I checked the cam bearings when it came back from the machine shop.
I did not plastgage the bearings like I planned, the crank measured std. at the machine shop and i bought std. bearings, the motor turned free both before and after installing the pistons, and again after final assembly with no hard spots and only the anticipated drag from being a new assembly, I did use EOS, which is thicker than regular oil, for assembling the rod and main bearings, I used clevite 77 assembly on the cam bearings and cam lube on the cam lobes, rocker tips/valve stem ends, top and bottom of the pushrods, and the sides of the lifters, i checked the oil holes in the top of the main bearing saddles also.
The spin on oil filter parts are from a 66 block, i swapped the base plate and the center double threaded nut the filter screws on to.

Questions,

any chance the filter is not letting the oil pass to the block? the anti drainback valve have anything to do with this problem?

Do You think there is an obstruction to the filter, sure doesn't seem like 90 psi dribbling out the holes the the filter base plate?

Could it be as Mick suggested, the assembly lube is not letting the system pass the motor oil since it's thicker and taking up the bearing clearance?

I used the heads off of the 66 motor, is there any differences in them and the 61 heads, especaially the oil passages to the rockers shafts?

I was just looking at the oil flow diagram in the FSM, I can't remember if the rocker arms are the same except the oil flow through the intakes and exhaust is different, any chance the machine shop got them mixed up?

Still looking at the oil flow diagram, how exactly does the oil flow past the head bolt/rocker stand bolt in the heads, to the rocker shafts?

Again, looking at the oil flow diagram, since the oil supply brackets are in different on the left and right heads, is it possible the rocker shafts were assembled on the wrong heads?

Yes it's now 5:30 AM, and all i saw last night when my head it hit the pillow is that damm oil flow diagram!

Edited by fenix 2015-04-01 5:55 AM
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wayfarer
Posted 2015-04-01 1:07 PM (#474097 - in reply to #473776)
Subject: Re: Pre 62 poly 318 oil pump priming



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fenix, although there is about a thousands years of experience on this forum, Gary Pavlovich 619.572.3008 lives and breathes A engines. I'd suggest giving him a call.
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fenix
Posted 2015-04-01 2:28 PM (#474100 - in reply to #473776)
Subject: Re: Pre 62 poly 318 oil pump priming



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Thanks, Gary.
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fenix
Posted 2015-04-03 12:02 AM (#474210 - in reply to #474062)
Subject: Re: Pre 62 poly 318 oil pump priming



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60 dart - 2015-04-01 12:10 AM

you got something blocked off , after the oil pressure hole . i know you got everything nice and clean but pull the filter catch the oil while turning the pump . if any bearings were off center , they'd all have to
be off center . what are the screws you talk about around the filter plate . a good rebuild pressure should be 50-55 lbs. , but can vary a touch . oh , i just read again , you messed with the relief valve ? that'd be
the second choice . i've changed over 5 filter locations in the past and not one has given me grief by just changing to an adaptor , darned common sense -------------------------------------later


Reminds me, drilling a chamfered hole in the top of rod (and through the bushing) on a full floating pistons is also, "darned common sense", thank god we caught that on those piston/rods I bought from you, wasn't gonna mention it till ya got nasty.
By the way, the notch on a 12 pin flat pack IC goes to the upper right where the dot/arrow is on the CB, " just darned common sense"


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60 dart
Posted 2015-04-03 3:14 AM (#474222 - in reply to #473776)
Subject: Re: Pre 62 poly 318 oil pump priming



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nasty , sorry you took it that way . wasn't meant to be ! hole through top of rod , they were oem factory rods and bushed by napa machine shop . just wondering why it would need a hole in the top at
the wrist pin -------------------------------------------------later
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wayfarer
Posted 2015-04-03 12:16 PM (#474247 - in reply to #473776)
Subject: Re: Pre 62 poly 318 oil pump priming



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The hole at the top collects a small amount of oil and keeps the pin moving freely in the rod.
This a good idea for any engine with a floating pin whether or not the manufacturer had a hole there to start with.
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fenix
Posted 2015-04-13 12:48 PM (#475325 - in reply to #473776)
Subject: Re: Pre 62 poly 318 oil pump priming



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Fixed my oil priming problem, thanks for the help.
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60 dart
Posted 2015-04-13 2:56 PM (#475340 - in reply to #473776)
Subject: Re: Pre 62 poly 318 oil pump priming



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ok kool , i knowed ya could , now how'd ya fix the problem please --------------------------------------------------------later

Edited by 60 dart 2015-04-13 2:57 PM
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fenix
Posted 2015-04-13 9:36 PM (#475390 - in reply to #473776)
Subject: Re: Pre 62 poly 318 oil pump priming



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I took the IS and made sure the slot in the priming tool was as long as the oil pump blade, used a larger drill, not a cordless 3/8 drive, have oil all the way to the rockers, and the oil pressure dropped off a little. Bought a new oil press gauge, 0-100 psi. I can't believe the power it takes to drive that pump.
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