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Hemi Powered '56 Plymouth
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Powerflite
Posted 2021-06-25 11:49 AM (#613094 - in reply to #480421)
Subject: Re: Hemi Powered '56 Plymouth



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Also, check your timing and try to advance it a little. Advancing your timing beyond the stock spec is a really good idea as long as you don't have pinging issues. It will increase the performance and dramatically reduce the heat produced by the motor. Move in small increments and drive up a large hill to see if there are any pre-ignition issues at that setting. Advance it until you start to have issues, and then back it off slightly.

Good point about the fan & hood seal, Danny. Once you stack an A/C condenser in front of a 4-core radiator, the pressure required to get the air to pass through them gets to be quite high so a good fan and a good seal becomes more important.

Edited by Powerflite 2021-06-25 12:59 PM
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Powerflite
Posted 2022-01-29 6:09 PM (#618880 - in reply to #480421)
Subject: Re: Hemi Powered '56 Plymouth



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I've been running the original master cylinder on this car with disc brakes for the last 17 years now without issues. But last week, it finally died on me. So I decided to convert to a dual reservoir master. It's always a joy to drive a brakeless car onto my driveway! But it wasn't too bad with a good working E-brake on it.

I had pre-bent up 4 sets of lines when I did the brakes on my '56 Fury. It's nice to have them already made up. Saves a lot of time. However, that rear line refused to cooperate with me. Had a dickens of a time getting it off. Even used torch heat to no avail. I eventually got it off, but it stripped off the head so I had to pull the line and install a new tube nut onto it. The upper hose was also very difficult to remove, mostly because of a lack of space to apply enough force to it. I eventually got it off using a 5/8" crow's foot. I rarely ever use those things, but this was one situation where it came in handy. I was able to adjust the push rod back to the right position without modifying it, so that was nice. But I still need to bleed the the system and get a new switch for the brake light. I have a mount on the pedal already, that's required for the 700R4 cutoff, but I'll have to check if it has the brake light circuit on it as well (they work opposite from each other so you can't tie them together).



(56Savoy Dual Circuit Master.jpg)



(56Savoy Brake Tee.jpg)



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Attachments 56Savoy Dual Circuit Master.jpg (167KB - 179 downloads)
Attachments 56Savoy Brake Tee.jpg (74KB - 173 downloads)
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Powerflite
Posted 2022-01-30 1:03 AM (#618884 - in reply to #480421)
Subject: Re: Hemi Powered '56 Plymouth



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While the car is up on jack stands, I decided to play with the front bumper mount. I found that I could move the bumper back by 1.4" with only minor changes to the bumper brackets and no changes to anything else. I think it looks a lot better this way, and it's really easy to do. To finish it off, you would need to cut the same amount out of the bumper sides, weld them together and get it re-chromed so the bumper isn't hanging into the wheelwell afterward. I'm probably going to do this on both of my Fury's because I don't want to modify them too much, but really hate the stock position of the front bumper.

But I don't think that 1.4" is quite enough for me so I'm going to try to move it a full 3.5-4" back, which is where my head thinks it belongs. But that much movement is going to take quite a bit more modifications to the bumper, splash pan, & bumper brackets.



(56Savoy 1.4in Bumper Push.jpg)



(56Savoy 1.4in Bumper Push Side.jpg)



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Attachments 56Savoy 1.4in Bumper Push.jpg (158KB - 174 downloads)
Attachments 56Savoy 1.4in Bumper Push Side.jpg (153KB - 174 downloads)
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22mafeja
Posted 2022-01-30 1:56 AM (#618885 - in reply to #480421)
Subject: RE: Hemi Powered '56 Plymouth


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It sure looks slimmer with the bumper as close to the body as possible. Would it be possible to just cut off the bumpers about in the line of the fenders
front line? If you then cut off as much as you want you could make the cut off pieces fit inside the main bumper... no chrome costs then..
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Powerflite
Posted 2022-02-01 6:52 PM (#618948 - in reply to #480421)
Subject: Re: Hemi Powered '56 Plymouth



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It's a nice idea Ralf, but I'll just get it re-chromed eventually anyway. From all the welding repair I had to do with the DeSoto bumper guards, I've found that you can grind & file them down to a nice semi-polished finish, and then just clear coat it. When you do this you can hardly tell that it's been done, when sitting on old chrome. So that's what I'll do until I get around to a full re-chrome job.

I modified the front splash pan and bumper brackets to push the bumper back to where I had envisioned it to be. It looks good to me, but surprisingly, it seems a little too far. I put the center of the bumper, sticking out at a sloped line to the center of the hood & grill, so I thought it would look best there, but I think the problem is that the headlights stick further out than the ends of the bumper, making it look a little pug-nosed. So I am going to try pulling it out a little until the bumper ends are a little further out from the headlights and see how I like it.
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Powerflite
Posted 2022-02-19 10:25 PM (#619583 - in reply to #480421)
Subject: RE: Hemi Powered '56 Plymouth



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These are the pictures of the bumper pushed in most of the way. I thought it was too far so I pulled it out more. In this configuration, the sides of the bumper are pushed all the way between the grill and splash pan.

Edited by Powerflite 2022-02-19 10:44 PM




(56Savoy Full Bumper Push.jpg)



(56Savoy Full Bumper Push Side.jpg)



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Attachments 56Savoy Full Bumper Push.jpg (227KB - 155 downloads)
Attachments 56Savoy Full Bumper Push Side.jpg (156KB - 156 downloads)
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Powerflite
Posted 2022-02-19 10:51 PM (#619584 - in reply to #480421)
Subject: Re: Hemi Powered '56 Plymouth



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I wanted to move the bumper in on this car ever since I bought it. Almost 20yrs later, I actually get it done! I ended up setting it at 2 1/8" shorter - about .75" shorter than the first picture above. Not sure which version is harder to do as they both require making new holes in the bracket and cutting the back end off to make it shorter. Though, I did modify the front edge of the splash pan and that was probably necessary to go to 2.125". It wasn't difficult to modify, except drilling the holes wasn't easy in that hard steel. I used the plasma cutter to cut the holes into it and then cleaned them up with a carbide burr. The bumper still goes between the grill and splash pan going this far in, but not as far as in the picture above. Moving in by 1.4" is about as far as you can go without inserting the bumper between them, or modifying the splash pan.

I'll section the sides of the bumper shorter at a later date. I need to move the car off the driveway to work on a boring commuter car for a while.

Edited by Powerflite 2022-02-19 11:17 PM




(56Plym 2.125 in Push Side.jpg)



(56Plym Bumper Tuck.jpg)



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Attachments 56Plym 2.125 in Push Side.jpg (131KB - 154 downloads)
Attachments 56Plym Bumper Tuck.jpg (88KB - 149 downloads)
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Powerflite
Posted 2022-08-07 3:30 AM (#623420 - in reply to #480421)
Subject: Re: Hemi Powered '56 Plymouth



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I feel really dumb. I wanted to move this car during the night, so I put a battery into it, except backwards because I didn't bring a flashlight. Lots of sparks and heard the starter relay kicking. I turn it around and the starter turns briefly and then just clicks. Great, sounds like I killed the starter. So I jacked the car up in the daylight, used my ghetto creeper for the dirt ground and pulled the starter. Yep, good solenoid action, but no turning. I take it to the garage and try it on a new battery and it works fine. Looks like I just drained a lot of power from battery. I put the starter back in, jumped the battery, and everything works fine. A lot of trouble for nothing.

The only good thing was I got to see how awesome my header design is for removing the starter. Couldn't have been nicer. And the finish on them is still looks new.



(56 Savoy Starter.jpg)



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Attachments 56 Savoy Starter.jpg (150KB - 107 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2022-08-07 11:17 AM (#623423 - in reply to #623420)
Subject: Re: Hemi Powered '56 Plymouth



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.
Nathan: You dodged a bullet (figuratively speaking)
there, man. Lesson learned and shared.

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Powerflite
Posted 2022-09-28 12:37 PM (#624560 - in reply to #480421)
Subject: Re: Hemi Powered '56 Plymouth



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I sectioned the front bumper to shorten the sides on it, after moving it back a couple inches. I matched the length to what I see on my '56 Belvedere. Now, I'll cut the welds down and file the final bit before a little polishing, and then a coat of clear to cover it. I'm also going to take the bumper off and add another bead on the backside before I send the bumper in for chrome plating. That should ensure that it remains as strong as it was before cutting.



(56Savoy Bumper Cut.jpg)



(56Savoy Bumper Shortened.jpg)



(56Savoy Bumper Welded.jpg)



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Attachments 56Savoy Bumper Cut.jpg (122KB - 89 downloads)
Attachments 56Savoy Bumper Shortened.jpg (102KB - 77 downloads)
Attachments 56Savoy Bumper Welded.jpg (100KB - 91 downloads)
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Viper Guy
Posted 2022-09-28 2:25 PM (#624562 - in reply to #480421)
Subject: Re: Hemi Powered '56 Plymouth



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Super nice job.

I was at an orphan car show a couple of weeks ago with my DeSoto and there was an AMC there that the owner did the same thing to. His was easier
though since his had the collapsible bumpers and he basically just let the fluids out, collapsed them to the desired distance, and then secured them.

The results were impressive like yours.
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samstrader
Posted 2022-10-24 9:22 PM (#625098 - in reply to #480421)
Subject: RE: Hemi Powered '56 Plymouth


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This is a question about adjustable push rods that are discussed in this thread on 7/23/20. I started installing the adjustable push rods I bought from Smith Brothers and when I set them according to Nathan's instructions, I noticed they were shorter than the original push rods that are already tapping. I finally figured out that the ball on the original push rods is smaller than the ball on the adjustable push rods and this is what is causing them to adjust shorter. See the picture. I ordered 1/4 inch balls but the original push rods have smaller than 1/4 inch balls which I didn't notice.

The question is do you think it is safe to use these adjustable push rods even though the ball is a slightly bigger. I think the answer may be no but just want to get some advice before I go any further with this project.

Thanks,,

Sam



(Adjustable push rods vs Stock push rodsX.jpg)



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Attachments Adjustable push rods vs Stock push rodsX.jpg (439KB - 79 downloads)
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Powerflite
Posted 2022-10-24 10:14 PM (#625104 - in reply to #480421)
Subject: Re: Hemi Powered '56 Plymouth



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That's the widest point of the ball that you are measuring. The part that actually seats into the rocker could still be the same size. I really doubt that a difference of .01" or .005" on each side is going to make a big difference in terms of the seat. But to be safe, take a rocker and place the pushrod into the end of it to check how it seats in there. The other reason why I think it is OK, is that I believe they only made these fittings to more standard sizes, not in .01" increments. So I think you are probably OK.
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samstrader
Posted 2022-10-25 12:06 PM (#625125 - in reply to #480421)
Subject: Re: Hemi Powered '56 Plymouth


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Thanks Nathan, I'll check both a lifter and a rocker. I have the intake manifold off so I can get to the lifters real easy and I'll take one out and get a close look at it. I'll post back this afternoon.
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samstrader
Posted 2022-10-25 6:37 PM (#625143 - in reply to #480421)
Subject: Re: Hemi Powered '56 Plymouth


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I think you are right Nathan. The adjustable push rods fit in the lifters and rockers good. I have two rockers that are used and older and the smaller diameter original push rods fit in those a little deeper because the older rocker is worn in some.

I have a circular template with all sizes of circles and I checked the curvature (actually the diameter) of the grinding on the end of both types of push rods. The diameter on both is 1/4 inch. And I could see this pretty clearly because the circles one size smaller and one size bigger than 1/4 inch on my template were not as good a fit for the curvature. It's just that there is more ball on the new adjustable push rods than on the smaller diameter tips of the original push rods.

I'm going to put the adjustable lifters in and adjust them like you said a couple of years ago and see how they work out. It sure is hard to get to the adjustment nuts however. My hands don't seem to want to fit in the right direction.

Thanks for your help. I didn't see what you saw when considering the fit up of the two types of push rods. I'll post how they work out in a couple of days hopefully.
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samstrader
Posted 2022-10-28 5:44 AM (#625214 - in reply to #480421)
Subject: Re: Hemi Powered '56 Plymouth


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I got the new adjustable push rods installed and set up per Nathan's instructions which is zero lash plus add 1/2 turn longer and they sound good. I have some very light tapping that you can only hear with a stethoscope but I am happy with the results.

My engine is an early 1955 P 27 259 V8 with Poly heads.

Comments about the project.

1. The push rod hole size in a 1955 259 V8 is 3/8 of an inch. The OEM solid pushrod has a rod diameter of 1/4 inch. And the adjustable push rods I bought from Smith Brothers had a rod diameter of 5/16 of an inch. 5/16 is the smallest diameter rod Smith Brothers makes.

The head gaskets used during my engine rebuild didn't fit up perfectly so there was a crescent of the head gasket sticking into each push rod hole. This crescent of head gasket didn't interfere with the 1/4 inch OEM push rods but it did interfere with the 5/16 inch adjustable push rods. So I used a round file to file out the head gasket material and then used a magnet to pick up all of the metal filings. I planned to do this without pulling the intake manifold and lifter valley cover. Did you know that you can lift a lifter out of it's hole with a magnet? I pulled the valve cover and got access to the lifters to put that lifter back in and then finished filing out all of the holes. It was a better job with the lifters exposed because I could make sure no metal filings got into the lifters and I could clean up the metal filings better with a magnet and then swab out the push rod holes with a gun cleaning swab. All push rod holes now look like the bore of a cleaned shotgun.

2. I put the adjustable push rods in place and installed the rocker assembly and tried to adjust the length of the push rods like Nathan said with the push rods installed and with two wrenches but I couldn't see the push rods well enough to be sure I was adjusting and tightening them properly and I was having a lot of trouble actually locking them down.

So I adjusted all of the lifters for zero lash with my hands and feel. This is actually pretty easy to do. You spin the push rod with your fingers and slowly lengthen the adjuster until you feel the spinning get tighter. You have to pay attention but it is quite noticeable and I'm confident I found zero lash. After I found zero lash, I pulled the rocker assemble, carefully removed the push rods one at a time and took them to my work bench and added the 1/2 turn of extra length and them locked them down and reinstalled them. I used yellow paint marks to mark each adjusting nut before turning them to make sure I adjusted the right amount. I am confident I got them adjusted to the right length.

3. I measured the relative length of the push rods on the driver side and the results are as follows...... Remember that the reason I had this problem in the first place is because the cam bearing that oils the driver side rockers was installed wrong and no oil at all went to the rockers for the first 500 miles I drove the car. So I have some unusual wear and this is why the push rods are so different in length. I used a dial indicator to measure the extra length (relative length). I don't have a micrometer long enough to measure the whole length of the push rod. This just means that 1 intake is 16 mills longer than 1 exhaust for example (0.104-0.088).

1 exhaust +0.088
1 intake +0.104
3 exhaust +0.113
3 intake +0.088
5 exhaust +0.117
5 intake +0.111
7 exhaust +0.098
7 intake +0.093

4. The nice thing about having adjustable push rods is that if you get some tapping, it's real easy to fix the one or two rockers that are tapping. You just have to run the engine with the valve cover off, find the tapping lifters, and lengthen the push rods on those rockers. Just increase the length on flat at a time.

It may be nice to have a thread just on Adjustable Push Rods. I was going to cut and paste but couldn't figure out exactly how to do it. If someone can give me a couple of tips, I'll be glad to put together a separate thread for this.

Thanks for all the help, especially to Nathan.

Edited by samstrader 2022-10-28 5:55 AM
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Powerflite
Posted 2022-10-28 12:22 PM (#625230 - in reply to #480421)
Subject: Re: Hemi Powered '56 Plymouth



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Thanks Sam, I'm glad you got it to work well. That's crazy about the head gasket though, never run into that before. I'll have to keep an eye out for it when I dig into my '58 Dodge motor. The other great thing about adjustables is that, as you can see, there is some variation in the wear & lengths required to get it done right. You may never be able to get it run well with fixed length pushrods.
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Powerflite
Posted 2022-12-23 11:46 AM (#626517 - in reply to #480421)
Subject: Re: Hemi Powered '56 Plymouth



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Now I can go back to Bank Motors and get my regular service intervals done.



(56 Savoy Service Certificate.jpg)



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Attachments 56 Savoy Service Certificate.jpg (77KB - 69 downloads)
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Powerflite
Posted 2024-02-07 12:32 PM (#633668 - in reply to #480421)
Subject: Re: Hemi Powered '56 Plymouth



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I purchased this car from a company in Burbank that rents old cars out to the movie industry. Picture Cars was their name, and they had purchased the car from an auction when the original owner died. I used to know his name and more information about him from the previous registration (which was way out of date), but I haven't been able to find it again. But this is the business card for Picture Cars, which is no longer there. It was neat to check over their back lot as they had a lot of stuff back there from familiar movies like the Terminator etc.



(Picture Cars Card.jpg)



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Attachments Picture Cars Card.jpg (58KB - 11 downloads)
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