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Dualie CONDENSERS?
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d500neil
Posted 2015-08-03 4:40 PM (#486159)
Subject: Dualie CONDENSERS?



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
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Location: bishop, ca
During the recent FWDLK website -server crash, came across this vintage article, and noticed that
it featured the installation of TWO electrical condensers, to safeguard
and maximize the radio reception quality.

My ride has 'always' had one condenser installed, as seen, mounted to the generator.

Is the dual-installed condensers a common electrical feature, and/or what would be the
electrical 'ratings' benefit that would result from the installation of two condensers?.

So; why two condensers, and what would be their necessary, or required ratings, in order to benefit from their
dual-installation???


Edited by d500neil 2015-08-03 5:03 PM




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Attachments PICT5295.JPG (128KB - 167 downloads)
Attachments PICT5298.JPG (161KB - 156 downloads)
Attachments PICT5293.JPG (154KB - 138 downloads)
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ttotired
Posted 2015-08-03 6:31 PM (#486166 - in reply to #486159)
Subject: Re: Dualie CONDENSERS?



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Neil

Condensers work best when located next to the "noise" maker

Generator brushes, regulator points and ignition points and electric motors are all common places for electrical noise

You will notice that one condenser in your picture is on the "A" post of the generator and the other one is on the "B" lug of the regulator

Once the generator is up and charging, technically, they are on the same "line", but with a small amount of resistance in the regulators contacts, there is a potential for radio noise to happen and the above picture shows how they try and prevent it

No biggy if you dont have it, but it is correct to have them both there

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d500neil
Posted 2015-08-03 6:46 PM (#486170 - in reply to #486159)
Subject: Re: Dualie CONDENSERS?



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
5000500050002000200010025
Location: bishop, ca
HUH?

This website is amazing.

Since I know SQUAT about most-things electricalmatic, are all 50's type condensers created equally, or should I buy
a certain type/strength of another (or two??) of those guys???

How do we know when it's time to replace a/both condensers?

Nothing lasts forever (except radio condensers?)

BTW, where does the other generator lug-wire attach? One end is grounded at/on the generator body; but
where does its other end connect-to?




Edited by d500neil 2015-08-03 6:58 PM
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ttotired
Posted 2015-08-03 7:30 PM (#486176 - in reply to #486159)
Subject: Re: Dualie CONDENSERS?



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Location: Perth Australia
Condensers are basically capacitors and there are testers out there for them, but they are (were) cheap, so it was an "if in doubt, throw it out" type of part

I used to hate it when a customer would come in complaining of radio static or noise, it can be really hard (sometimes impossible) to get rid of

I had one car (customer car) once that had a heap of static and would pick up every noise maker in the car, took ages (and a lot of money) to fix it

It was the guard the antenna was mounted on had partially lost its earth connection and I fixed it by simply putting wire from the guard to the firewall

But, to the genny wiring, the other end should go to the base of the regulator to try and make sure that the earth potential between the 2 are the same

A difference in the earth potential will upset the regulator settings (very important)

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LD3 Greg
Posted 2015-08-03 9:26 PM (#486194 - in reply to #486176)
Subject: Re: Dualie CONDENSERS?


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Location: Ontario, Canada
I think your car originally came with three condensers. One was hooked to the distributor side of the coil.

Greg
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ttotired
Posted 2015-08-03 9:41 PM (#486197 - in reply to #486159)
Subject: Re: Dualie CONDENSERS?



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Pretty sure the coil one goes on the power side, but they put them all over the place

Should be one behind the dash for the fuel gauge voltage stabilizer, maybe one on the heater fan motor and another on the wiper motor, basically, anywhere that electrical noise could be generated

AM frequency would pick up anything (still does) and was one of the main reasons everything went to FM, digital is even better

I am not really that good when it comes to radios though, I prefer to farm that work off

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d500neil
Posted 2015-08-03 10:39 PM (#486211 - in reply to #486197)
Subject: Re: Dualie CONDENSERS?



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
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Location: bishop, ca
Anybody want to prepare (hand-written diagram is fine...) an illustration showing where all of the
possible-potential condensers COULD be installed?

FWIW, my car has the (typically?) one condenser installed on the generator, as seen in one of the pics.,above.

Horrie could probably USE....1-or-more additional condensers , as he has:


the Signal-Seeking OEM radio installed,

PLUS...he has a separate vintage Motorola FM converter wired into his Signal-Seeking radio,

PLUS.... he has a 6x9" modern 3-way (8-OHM )....rear speaker, on the Parcel shelf,

PLUS...he has the front:rear speaker "FADER" knob/system/switch

That's a LOT of ancillary electrical connections....with only one set of condenser(s)!!


....Do the additional condensers tend to reduce (or affect) the sound volume, thru the speaker system???








Edited by d500neil 2015-08-03 11:20 PM
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d500neil
Posted 2015-08-03 11:11 PM (#486214 - in reply to #486159)
Subject: Re: Dualie CONDENSERS?



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
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Location: bishop, ca
Greg, et al: I've now got a Pertronix electronic ignition system installed in H.

As I said, before, I know nuth-ink about whether my ride (still-) needs more condensers, given that he's running
an E.I. ignition system, right now.,,,and, the radio system actually sounds "OK", through the speakers....OK,
but not 'great'

Also, right now, the static level of the radio system is not 'bad'...but it 'sounds' (pun intended) like a couple-few more
FLUX capacitors might just improve his 'voice' level!!!

BTW, with the Motorola FM converter, I've got 2-ways to dial in a station:

Change the FM reception quality via the FM converter's manual-station adjuster

and/or: change the AM OR the FM reception by adjusting the RADIO'S AM manual control knob.

Wish that the Motorola had pushbutton controls, but it's strictly a manual-tune radio system!







Edited by d500neil 2015-08-03 11:26 PM
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LD3 Greg
Posted 2015-08-03 11:15 PM (#486216 - in reply to #486211)
Subject: Re: Dualie CONDENSERS?


Expert

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Location: Ontario, Canada
As I mentioned, if the car was shipped with a factory radio, there would be three only condensers. No factory voltage limiters on 57 cars.

Neil, I replied simply because you like factory originality and these three underhood ones are very visible!

All three have different mounting brackets. I will be able to get pics and/or pics of 57 manuals to show them.

I was never able to source replacements with the correct brackets.

As Mick mentioned, no biggie. You probably don't even need them. I always put new guts in my radios so I didn't need them. I installed them to make the car look correct.

Greg
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d500neil
Posted 2015-08-03 11:21 PM (#486218 - in reply to #486159)
Subject: Re: Dualie CONDENSERS?



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
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Location: bishop, ca
THANKS, Greg, everyone!

No 'special' mounting brackets are seen, in the above illustrations.







Edited by d500neil 2015-08-03 11:29 PM
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58coupe
Posted 2015-08-03 11:31 PM (#486219 - in reply to #486159)
Subject: Re: Dualie CONDENSERS?



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Here's a quick and dirty explanation: condensers (actually capacitors) are rated for voltage and "capacity" in microfarads (MFD). The voltage rating for our application should be more than 12 volts and the higher the MFD the greater the capacity to absorb and dissipate "noise". Generators and spark plug wires are very noisy, alternators too. I have used and seen capacitors as large as 500 MFD or more to control noise. You should have one on your generator and voltage regulator to minimize radio noise. The condenser in your points type distributor is there for a different reason, to keep the points from arcing and burning up. BTW, capacitors may also be polarity sensitive, have a positive and negative terminal. No, they don't affect the volume of the radio.
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LD3 Greg
Posted 2015-08-03 11:51 PM (#486222 - in reply to #486219)
Subject: Re: Dualie CONDENSERS?


Expert

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Location: Ontario, Canada
58coupe - 2015-08-03 11:31 PM

Here's a quick and dirty explanation: condensers (actually capacitors) are rated for voltage and "capacity" in microfarads (MFD). The voltage rating for our application should be more than 12 volts and the higher the MFD the greater the capacity to absorb and dissipate "noise". Generators and spark plug wires are very noisy, alternators too. I have used and seen capacitors as large as 500 MFD or more to control noise. You should have one on your generator and voltage regulator to minimize radio noise. The condenser in your points type distributor is there for a different reason, to keep the points from arcing and burning up. BTW, capacitors may also be polarity sensitive, have a positive and negative terminal. No, they don't affect the volume of the radio.


Thanks for the info re the condenser at the dist. I should have paid more attention to it than simply installing one that may or may not have been functioning properly!!

Greg
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LD3 Greg
Posted 2015-08-04 5:03 PM (#486266 - in reply to #486222)
Subject: Re: Dualie CONDENSERS?


Expert

Posts: 1906
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Location: Ontario, Canada
Here are pics of the three condensers that were used along with part numbers.

Greg



(image.jpg)



(image.jpg)



(image.jpg)



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Attachments image.jpg (164KB - 154 downloads)
Attachments image.jpg (121KB - 156 downloads)
Attachments image.jpg (180KB - 145 downloads)
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58coupe
Posted 2015-08-05 10:20 PM (#486398 - in reply to #486159)
Subject: Re: Dualie CONDENSERS?



Expert

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Location: Alaska
notice that the condenser on the coil is on the battery side, this has nothing to do with the condenser that is inside the distributor.
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LD3 Greg
Posted 2015-08-05 11:47 PM (#486399 - in reply to #486398)
Subject: Re: Dualie CONDENSERS?


Expert

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Location: Ontario, Canada
Yeah, I realized we were talking about two different things shortly after I responded!

No problem at all!

I, too, was using Pertronix so didn't even have a condenser in the distributor.

Greg
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d500neil
Posted 2015-08-09 12:59 AM (#486601 - in reply to #486159)
Subject: Re: Dualie CONDENSERS?



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
5000500050002000200010025
Location: bishop, ca
So, those of us, of the Pertronix Persuasion, only need to find and install the VOLTAGE REGULATOR condenser:

1K541682


...because we do NOT 'need' the "Ignition coil" condenser (8B520675) to be installed?


...and, we, (probably-) have the GENERATOR condenser (1V580837) already installed, on our cars.





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58coupe
Posted 2015-08-09 10:00 AM (#486617 - in reply to #486159)
Subject: Re: Dualie CONDENSERS?



Expert

Posts: 1739
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Location: Alaska
Eliminating RFI (radio frequency interference) can sometimes be a little frustrating. Since you don't have points any longer, you may not need a condenser on the bat. side of the coil. It won't hurt to try it with and without if you have noise. Make sure you use good quality resistance plug wires and good grounds throughout your wiring. GM had so much trouble with their fiberglass bodied Corvettes that they had to put sheet metal shrouds around the dist. and wires.
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d500neil
Posted 2015-08-09 3:46 PM (#486639 - in reply to #486159)
Subject: Re: Dualie CONDENSERS?



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
5000500050002000200010025
Location: bishop, ca
My middle names should be : Cantleave Wellenufalone

So, I feel compelled to find out how much benefit I'll obtain from the installation of another condenser (even tho my
current (-pun)' radio system is a fairly complicated, R. Goldberg production...see my posting of 8/3/15, above)....with a
lot of electrical connections in it....which can cause audio static....of which I really have little, it seems, at present.

Big M is looking for a good-used condenser, right now, but they should be readily available/orderable via
a Parts-Shop.

I've 'heard' that the radio speaker's (separate) "Fader" switch assembly can cause some static, too.







Edited by d500neil 2015-08-09 3:52 PM
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wizard
Posted 2015-08-09 5:17 PM (#486644 - in reply to #486159)
Subject: Re: Dualie CONDENSERS?



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Today there are several other fixes - I run with something simular to this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10A-Noise-Suppressor-Filter-Box-Car-CD-Ra...
Works perfect - my old condesors/capacitors remains only for appearance
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