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1960 Plymouth Belvedere
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Powerflite
Posted 2019-10-02 2:58 PM (#588321 - in reply to #487183)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth Belvedere



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Location: So. California
I saw it there, but I'm not familiar with this setup, so that's why I asked. I haven't been around these newer vehicles much at all.
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jboymechanic
Posted 2019-10-03 10:10 PM (#588374 - in reply to #487183)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth Belvedere



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Location: Muskego, WI
Drove the car again today, won't be many days to do so this year. So far it's good.
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jboymechanic
Posted 2019-10-24 1:59 PM (#589185 - in reply to #588374)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth Belvedere



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Location: Muskego, WI
Finished my 2.94 gear install last night, just need to clean up the garage and then test drive. Below are my final ratios with % drop from previous gear:

AX15 with 2.94 gears
1st = 3.83 x 2.94 = 11.26
2nd = 2.33 x 2.94 = 6.85 (39% drop)
3rd = 1.44 x 2.94 = 4.23 (38% drop)
4th = 1.00 x 2.94 = 2.94 (30% drop)
5th = 0.79 x 2.94 = 2.32 (21% drop)


A833 with 3.31 gears
1st = 3.09 x 3.31 = 10.23
2nd = 1.69 x 3.31 = 5.59 (45% drop)
3rd = 1.00 x 3.31 = 3.31 (41% drop)
4th = 0.73 x 3.31 = 2.42 (27% drop)

Edited by jboymechanic 2019-10-24 2:26 PM
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Powerflite
Posted 2019-10-24 3:26 PM (#589194 - in reply to #487183)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth Belvedere



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That final ratio sounds about right, I think you'll be happy with it. My '70 Satellite wagon has a strong running 318 with 4bbl, Dakota dual exhaust & 700R4. I started with a 2.94 gear in it after I made the overdrive conversion, giving me a 2.05 final ratio (the 700R4 4th gear is .696:1). I found that the car would bog going over significant freeway hills near me with these gears. I had to raise the rpm up a little to make it work well. So I installed 3.23 gears into it to give me a final ratio of 2.30. That's a really nice ratio for running on the freeway and you are set right about where mine is.
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jboymechanic
Posted 2019-10-25 11:41 PM (#589290 - in reply to #487183)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth Belvedere



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Location: Muskego, WI
Went for a 50 mile drive today, by far the longest since installing the 5 speed. All seems well and I really like the new gear set much better. Plenty of torque from the old 318 to cruise at 60 mph at 1800 RPM. 1st is still short, but much better than it was with the 3.31 gears. Fun to drive, the 5 speed just shifts so much better than the old 4 speed, really happy I made the change.

Unfortunately, there is snow in the forecast for next week, so car is going into storage for the winter. Still really happy I was able to get the windshield, trans and gears in the car this season.





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Attachments thumb_IMG_0294_1024.jpg (199KB - 43 downloads)
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60 Imp
Posted 2019-10-26 8:29 AM (#589302 - in reply to #487183)
Subject: RE: 1960 Plymouth Belvedere


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Location: North Australia
Dont forget you done the power steering too, nice work Jon. You've made a neat customized Plymouth. Hows the Imperial going?

Steve.
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jboymechanic
Posted 2019-10-29 12:03 AM (#589457 - in reply to #487183)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth Belvedere



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Location: Muskego, WI
Hey, I did forget about the power steering, guess I was pretty busy on this car this year. I still really need to rebuild the suspension (front and rear) and steering linkages, get my seat finished and hang my good driver door and fender and this car will be about a far as I plan on taking it.

Not much happening with the Imperial, unfortunately. I need to take it to a respectable shop and pay to have it finished as I really don't have the patience or the skill to properly finish the car, I'm just so afraid to mess it up. The other issue is cost, everything is so expensive. I'll have more into wire wheels and tires than I will in buying, shipping and getting my '61 Plymouth on the road. But, I have promised myself that I will make more progress again this winter as it is the only vintage car that stays in the heated garage over the winter season. Stay tuned.

Edited by jboymechanic 2019-10-29 12:05 AM
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jboymechanic
Posted 2020-03-09 1:05 PM (#595432 - in reply to #487183)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth Belvedere



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Location: Muskego, WI
We had really nice weather this weekend, dad and I had our old cars running. Can't wait to get it out.
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57burb
Posted 2020-03-09 11:33 PM (#595444 - in reply to #595432)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth Belvedere



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That old Belv looks like two tons of fun! I bet the overdrive really adds to the driveability.
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jboymechanic
Posted 2020-05-22 10:26 AM (#598624 - in reply to #595444)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth Belvedere



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Location: Muskego, WI
I have recently installed a shifter out of a 1998 Dodge Dakota and improved my transmission mount in this car in an effort to ensure things go smoothly when I install the same drive train in my 1960 wagon. Driving experience is much better, but I still feel like I'd enjoy this setup better if first gear lasted a little longer. I'm considering going to 2.76 gears.

Below are my current and previous transmission and gear ratio setups, the third setup would be the AX15 with 2.76 combo.

AX15 with 2.94 gears (currently in the car)
1st = 3.83 x 2.94 = 11.26
2nd = 2.33 x 2.94 = 6.85 (39% drop)
3rd = 1.44 x 2.94 = 4.23 (38% drop)
4th = 1.00 x 2.94 = 2.94 (30% drop)
5th = 0.79 x 2.94 = 2.32 (21% drop)

A833 with 3.31 gears (previously in the car)
1st = 3.09 x 3.31 = 10.23
2nd = 1.69 x 3.31 = 5.59 (45% drop)
3rd = 1.00 x 3.31 = 3.31 (41% drop)
4th = 0.73 x 3.31 = 2.42 (27% drop)

AX15 with 2.76 gears (potential combination)
1st = 3.83 x 2.76 = 10.57
2nd = 2.33 x 2.76 = 6.43 (39% drop)
3rd = 1.44 x 2.76 = 3.97 (38% drop)
4th = 1.00 x 2.76 = 2.76 (30% drop)
5th = 0.79 x 2.76 = 2.18 (21% drop)

First gear with the AX15 and 2.76 gears would still be shorter (10.57) than my original setup of the A833 with 3.31 gears (10.23), which was just right in my opinion. The % drop from gear to gear will obviously be the same, so my only concern becomes overdrive with a final drive ratio of only 2.18.

For comparison, I've had two vehicles in my life that have had similar final drive ratios. One was a 318 lean burn powered 1982 Chrysler Cordoba with 2.24 gears and the other was a 307 Olds V8 powered 1985 Buick Electra Estate wagon with 2.73 gears and automatic overdrive for a final drive ratio of only 1.82. The Cordoba was about the same weight as this Plymouth and had no issues pushing the car at 75 mph, I even achieved 28 mpg on a trip to Minneapolis once. The Buick wagon was under-powered and you had to keep your foot into it, but it was also 4200 pounds. I'd be much closer to the Cordoba ratio and weight, but the pre-smog 318 poly has significantly more torque and hp so I think I'd be just fine.

I'd really like to experiment with this combination, were 2.76 gears available in cars with tapered axles? If so, I'd like to find a differential carrier with these gears that are ready to run.
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Powerflite
Posted 2020-05-22 10:45 AM (#598625 - in reply to #487183)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth Belvedere



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If it were an automatic, I wouldn't go that high, because you would end up having to shift it to a lower gear when going up hills. But being a manual, shifting is no big deal, so I say go for it. The 2.76 ratio wasn't available until later so you will need to adapt them to the rear axle. The only issue is the length of the inner pin. It is too long on the newer gear sets. So you can make it work by doing either:
1. shorten the axles by 1/8" so you can use any newer gear-set in your car. or
2. Swap the shorter pin from an old carrier to the new 2.76 carrier.

I've done it both ways and it's really a matter of preference depending on what you may want to go back to. The axles have a chamfer on the end of them that is exactly 1/8" so it is relatively easy to cut them down to that point. But go slow and trial fit them with the available shims you have before you get too far. You can always cut a little more from the axle, but adding material if you go too far isn't recommended.

If you decide to swap the pins, you can avoid a lot of re-adjustment by marking the adjusters and counting the exact number of threads that are showing. Then put it back to exactly where it was. Since you aren't changing anything that would affect the gear alignment, you can get away with just doing it this way. Keep in mind the bolts holding the ring gear on are left hand thread, and you will need to heat the ring gear to remove it from the carrier, and heat it again to put it back on.
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