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1960 Plymouth Belvedere
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ttotired
Posted 2018-05-20 9:39 PM (#563724 - in reply to #487183)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth Belvedere



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At least it moves

Not yet for mine

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jboymechanic
Posted 2018-05-21 11:23 PM (#563800 - in reply to #487183)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth Belvedere



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I believe I have the charging issue solved; bad alternator. This is disappointing, as the alternator is brand new. I have a square back mopar alternator with mopar electronic voltage regulator setup in this car. With the ignition switch turned to "Run", I have 12 volts at the regulator "I" terminal and at one of the field terminals on the alternator (this is the blue wire). There is no voltage "through" the alternator to the other field terminal (where the green wire connects the alternator to the voltage regulator). This indicates a bad alternator field winding.

My next goals are to fine tune the accelerator linkage (i don't think I can actually get the carb to WOT when the pedal is to the floor) and bleed my hydraulic throughout bearing. I had to pump the clutch pedal at stops to get the clutch to release properly. I also need to adjust my clutch pedal linkage so I don't over-actuate the release bearing and blow it out.
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jboymechanic
Posted 2018-05-25 12:50 PM (#564014 - in reply to #487183)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth Belvedere



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New alternator solved the charging issue, back up to about 14 to 14.5 volts when the engine is running. Working on putting in a new brake master cylinder next. Larger bore for firmer pedal and to feed the volume to 4 wheel disc brakes. Also lighter (aluminum) with easy open plastic reservoir screw caps.
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jboymechanic
Posted 2018-06-22 1:44 PM (#565455 - in reply to #487183)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth Belvedere



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I'm now driving this car on short trips until I build up some confidence, I've put about 50 miles on the car this week. Up shifts through all the gears easily, but it is still difficult to down shift from 3rd to 2nd (probably a synchronizer issue in the trans). Alignment was adjusted as best I could with a tape measure, actually goes down the road pretty well. Speedo doesn't work but odometer is rolling. Will need suspension and steering rebuild before any serious miles are put on. Tires and proper alignment too. This car is officially back on the road though!
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-06-23 12:22 AM (#565478 - in reply to #487183)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth Belvedere



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Congratulations! Time to start enjoying it.
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jboymechanic
Posted 2018-07-05 10:59 PM (#566092 - in reply to #487183)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth Belvedere



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Changed the trans fluid to Valvoline MTF Synchromesh oil. Car shifts up even better and downshifts are much better. Downshift from 3 to 2 is still a bit sluggish, but manageable and much improved. I'm not sure what the viscosity of this oil is as it's not stated on the bottle, but it seemed pretty thin when pouring it in. If I'm still not happy long term I may go to the factory recommended (for warn climates) GL-4 SAE 140 oil as this will be a summer & fall only car.

Edited by jboymechanic 2018-07-05 11:00 PM
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oldwood
Posted 2018-07-08 10:17 PM (#566318 - in reply to #487183)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth Belvedere


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Congrats. Its nice to see another '60 on the road. Someday maybe you'll put a seat and windshield in it.
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jboymechanic
Posted 2018-07-08 11:24 PM (#566325 - in reply to #487183)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth Belvedere



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I drove the car another 50 miles this weekend. I picked up my dad and we went to a local drive in that hosts a cruise night every Saturday. People got a kick out of seeing such a shabby car being able to make it out.

Car runs great, but it does badly need a new windshield and seat that I hope to figure out how to get from you Dorsey. I have a three corrugated boxed sitting on top of the springs and two sheets over that on the seat, but it sits darn low. The windshield is almost impossible to see through at night it's so hazy, had to be home before it got dark. Luckily in the summertime that's not until 9:00 PM. Lots of work to do, but at least I can drive it as I work on it now.
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jboymechanic
Posted 2019-01-08 8:58 AM (#576485 - in reply to #487183)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth Belvedere



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I haven't updated this in a while, but there has been some progress. Late this fall I completed the rebuild of an AX15 5 speed manual transmission from a 1998 Dodge Dakota. The bell housing is a direct bolt on to the 318 Poly (Jeep fans using this bell housing for straight 6 to V8 conversions). I finally finished cleaning and rebuilding the shifter, i also have the external factory slave cylinder with an adapter fitting so I can use a standard -3AN hydraulic hose from the master to the slave. I hope to complete the swap in the spring, I will have to rework my transmission mount and floor to complete the job.

I also plan to re-gear the car with 2.94 gears, I have a good set that I just removed from a rear end last night. Gear set is in excellent condition, should only need a new pinion seal.

Finally, I removed and repaired the front seat before putting the car away for the winter. I cut off all the rotten fabric and foam and found that the seat frame was cracked and bent. I heated the frame up and bent it back and welded back together. No more lean into the back seat, now I need padding and upholstery. I also finally shipped my windshield purchased from oldwood, hope to get that into the car this year as well.
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mikes2nd
Posted 2019-01-08 10:24 AM (#576489 - in reply to #487183)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth Belvedere


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hah are you watching Cold War Motors splice his 60 fury? He chopped up a 4 door dodge to use for his 2 dr ht Fury.
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jboymechanic
Posted 2019-01-09 12:13 AM (#576518 - in reply to #576489)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth Belvedere



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mikes2nd - 2019-01-08 9:24 AM

hah are you watching Cold War Motors splice his 60 fury? He chopped up a 4 door dodge to use for his 2 dr ht Fury.


I do love me some Cold War Motors, I just wonder how the hell the guy affords the property and all the cars?
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jboymechanic
Posted 2019-01-10 12:39 AM (#576550 - in reply to #576518)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth Belvedere



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Here is the rebuilt AX15 with correct bell housing, slave cylinder, clutch fork and release bearing. Pretty compact unit, shifts more smoothly than the A833 and not such a drastic gear ratio drop from 1 to 2 like the A833 either.



(IMG_3376.jpg)



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mikes2nd
Posted 2019-01-10 2:06 AM (#576552 - in reply to #576518)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth Belvedere


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jboymechanic - 2019-01-09 12:13 AM
mikes2nd - 2019-01-08 9:24 AM hah are you watching Cold War Motors splice his 60 fury? He chopped up a 4 door dodge to use for his 2 dr ht Fury.
I do love me some Cold War Motors, I just wonder how the hell the guy affords the property and all the cars?

 hah he isn't rich, his one barn roof fell in.

It may be his families property? He runs his business there.  He paints cars and fixes them up.  I think he's been doing it a long time.  He gets his cars for nearly nothing.  I think he got the fury for probably under 500$ and the Dodge for 800$ at the auction.

 

 



Edited by mikes2nd 2019-01-10 2:07 AM
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jboymechanic
Posted 2019-03-19 10:51 PM (#579565 - in reply to #487183)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth Belvedere



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Lot of prep work going on with the Plymouth. Just bought and cleaned up a power steering column from Big M, just easier to drive a stick car with power steering. Shipping the gear to be rebuilt by Lares in Minnesota. Hope to dig it out of storage by the end of April.
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jboymechanic
Posted 2019-04-02 10:33 PM (#580314 - in reply to #579565)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth Belvedere



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Just got my power steering gear back from Lares. Cleaned, rebuilt, painted and ready to go. The rest of the column and components are ready also (pump, lines, steering isolator were all sourced new from RockAuto).



(IMG_3536.jpg)



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Attachments IMG_3536.jpg (170KB - 74 downloads)
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jboymechanic
Posted 2019-04-11 2:17 PM (#580722 - in reply to #487183)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth Belvedere



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The manual steering column is out, had to remove one of my brake lines from the MC to make it happen. The worst part of the job was all the dirt mixed with grease falling all over me and trying to maneuver the steering gear out since the steering tube does not disconnect from the manual gear. Everything is cleaned up and the power steering gear is now loosely mounted to the frame. I think the worst of it is over, only about 3 hours into the job. Hope to finish the job Friday and Saturday night.
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Powerflite
Posted 2019-04-11 2:20 PM (#580723 - in reply to #487183)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth Belvedere



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Let us know how the adjustment procedure comes out.
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oldwood
Posted 2019-04-11 11:12 PM (#580755 - in reply to #487183)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth Belvedere


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I love reading threads and eating a Kringle. lol
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jboymechanic
Posted 2019-04-13 12:52 AM (#580807 - in reply to #487183)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth Belvedere



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Power steering gear and column are in and tightened in place. Now I need to install the pump and lines, flush the gear and then bleed the air. Once all that checks out, I'll torque down the steering arm and linkage and reinstall my floor to column boots. I have a slight rub between the horn ring and column at one point when I turn the steering wheel, so I'll have to take the horn ring off and touch it up with a file. Also installed turn signal lever repair kit and a spare '56 Imperial turn signal lever for a touch of class.

Dorsey, when I get that '61 up here and running, I'll send you another Kringle.
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jboymechanic
Posted 2019-04-14 12:43 AM (#580842 - in reply to #487183)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth Belvedere



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Power steering is in, complete and operable. Wasn't that bad, could have been done in a day if I could work on it continuously. When the weather gets better again, I'll take it for a test drive. Then it will be back in the garage to get the 5 speed swapped in, and then swap the 2.94 gears in place of the 3.31s.
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jboymechanic
Posted 2019-04-14 12:54 AM (#580843 - in reply to #487183)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth Belvedere



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Also, here is a video of how the exhaust sounds on this car. Pretty tough sounding for a 318.

https://youtu.be/yK-PtPCgXyU

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jboymechanic
Posted 2019-05-02 2:12 PM (#581681 - in reply to #487183)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth Belvedere



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I purchased some Cooper Cobra 255/60R15 tires and mounted them to some Mopar "cop" wheels. The wheels and tires fit with ease in my rear wheel wells. The 15x7 cop wheels have the perfect backspacing/offset so the tire is centered between the leaf spring and inside of the rear quarter. As expected, I have about 1.25 inches of clearance on both sidewalls of the tire. It was not difficult to maneuver the wheels and tires onto the axle flanges either.
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Powerflite
Posted 2019-05-02 2:37 PM (#581682 - in reply to #487183)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth Belvedere



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Post up a pic of it when you get a chance. I passed up on a bunch of cheap cop car wheels at the fling swap because I wanted stock style rims, only to realize that I was going to run a full hubcap on this anyway. Duh moment happened a little too late. 15x7 is the perfect size for the whitewall tires I want to run.
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jboymechanic
Posted 2019-05-02 10:53 PM (#581697 - in reply to #581682)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth Belvedere



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Here are some pics, not very good lighting though. I has been raining steady for a week and it was dark out, don't want the car in the rain as I'm sure it will leak like hell. These are the best I have.

Not sure what to tackle next, the windshield or the 5 speed?

Edited by jboymechanic 2019-05-02 10:56 PM




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jboymechanic
Posted 2019-05-06 11:32 PM (#581886 - in reply to #581697)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth Belvedere



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Well, I decided to get going on replacing the front windshield next. My replacement has been sitting on a pile of bubble wrap in between the Imperial and this Plymouth for months and I want my floor space back and I also want the windshield off the floor before it gets broken. I removed the stainless trim, brushed and vacuumed around the gasket. The structure looks great and rust free, even my clips are all in good shape. The gasket has been rubbed with Gojo and is soaking in the stuff now before I remove the gasket entirely for more cleaning in the window frame and the gasket itself.



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mikes2nd
Posted 2019-05-07 12:18 AM (#581887 - in reply to #487183)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth Belvedere


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those springs look in trouble?
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jboymechanic
Posted 2019-05-07 9:32 AM (#581893 - in reply to #487183)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth Belvedere



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I agree that the picture of the leaf spring looks bad, but it must be a bad angle because the springs on this car are ok (not great, but not in trouble either).
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jboymechanic
Posted 2019-05-12 11:05 PM (#582085 - in reply to #487183)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth Belvedere



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The windshield gasket has softened enough that I was willing to try to "unlock" it. It worked great, gasket seems to be in good shape. Once open, I filled in the gasket with more Gojo and will wait a few more days before I remove the glass and then the gasket itself.
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jboymechanic
Posted 2019-05-13 11:21 PM (#582125 - in reply to #582085)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth Belvedere



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Windshield is out, that is, it's out of the gasket. Still resting in the frame, need to get someone over here to help me lift it out of place and onto the ground. Gasket is looking good, and the frame around the glass on the car is solid. I'd like to clean the frame up and paint it to protect it, any recommendations? Rust bullet?



(IMG_3689.jpg)



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Attachments IMG_3689.jpg (250KB - 61 downloads)
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mikes2nd
Posted 2019-05-13 11:54 PM (#582130 - in reply to #487183)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth Belvedere


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yeah i use rust bullet with a topcoat
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jboymechanic
Posted 2019-05-14 5:13 PM (#582149 - in reply to #487183)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth Belvedere



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Which Rust Bullet product, didn't realize there were so many?
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mikes2nd
Posted 2019-05-14 6:21 PM (#582150 - in reply to #487183)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth Belvedere


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1 qt is 35$ on Amazon. Or get 1 pt. Remember once you open it you have a couple days to use it all or I seal it in small glass jars like baby food to the top and with a hole drilled in the cap to the overflow and the tape it shut so absolutely no air is in the jar
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jboymechanic
Posted 2019-05-28 12:40 AM (#582594 - in reply to #582150)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth Belvedere



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Windshield is in the car and all the trim is back in place. Nice to have a windshield that I can see through!



(IMG_3712.jpg)



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SavoyPlaza
Posted 2019-05-29 2:11 PM (#582659 - in reply to #487183)
Subject: RE: 1960 Plymouth Belvedere



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Nice! I like the old decal, too! The cop wheels with the 1960s dog dish hubcaps look good as well.
Pete
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jboymechanic
Posted 2019-06-04 12:03 AM (#582899 - in reply to #582659)
Subject: RE: 1960 Plymouth Belvedere



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Thanks Pete, she'll be a decent driver yet.

This weekend the kids helped me give this car its first wash since at least 1985 (when it went off the road). The trail of filth running down my driveway was impressive, I mostly wanted to get any dirt out of any tight areas.



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mikes2nd
Posted 2019-06-04 1:50 AM (#582904 - in reply to #487183)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth Belvedere


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looks pretty solid
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Powerflite
Posted 2019-06-04 2:38 AM (#582905 - in reply to #487183)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth Belvedere



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Nice, looks like a different car now!
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jboymechanic
Posted 2019-08-20 11:39 AM (#586279 - in reply to #487183)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth Belvedere



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I've begun the process of removing the 4 speed so I can swap in the AX15 5 speed. I will change the rear gears as well, the 3.31 gears in this car have been howling pretty loudly and the pinion seal is leaking quite badly as well. So far I have pulled the starter and drive shaft, drained the trans, removed the shifter and drained the clutch master cylinder. Goal for tonight is to pull the trans, release bearing, clutch and bell housing.
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jboymechanic
Posted 2019-08-21 1:20 AM (#586316 - in reply to #586279)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth Belvedere



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Easy part is over, all the 4 speed stuff is out of the car. I already see that I will need to do at least two things; get a new drive shaft as the AX15 is about 4 inches shorter than the A833 (37" for A833 vs 33" for the AX15, bell housing mount surface to center of the output yoke u-joint openings) and get a mod another crossmember to accept the AX15 mount. Shifter position is almost identical, but the AX15 is centered over the top of the trans while the A833 was off to the driver side of the trans. The input shaft is longer on the A833, it extends beyond the mounting surface of the bell housing. The AX15 input shaft is about even with the mounting surface of its bell housing.

Edited by jboymechanic 2019-08-21 1:23 AM




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jboymechanic
Posted 2019-08-27 9:32 AM (#586630 - in reply to #487183)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth Belvedere



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The 5 speed is in the car and bolted up. One of the things I don't like about the 5 speed is that the trans bolts to the bell housing on the inside of the bell so the whole assembly goes on together. This made mating the transmission to the engine more difficult as I had to move the assembly up and over to clear both the flywheel and clutch and also to keep the bell housing clear of the floor and firewall. I wish I would have ground a little more lead-in on the end of the transmission input shaft as well, was kind of hard to get it started in to the pilot bearing. No real drama getting these to mate together though.

I've re-cut my floor for the new shifter position, I had to re-bend my Jeep shifter to clear my dash just as I had to do with the 4 speed before it. Correct size master cylinder is in the car as well (matches factory Dodge & Jeep MC volume as I'm using the factory Dodge & Jeep slave cylinder). I still need to modify and install a trans cross member, get a new (shorter) drive shaft and get a correct length hydraulic line between the master and slave cylinders.
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Powerflite
Posted 2019-08-27 10:16 AM (#586632 - in reply to #487183)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth Belvedere



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I found that overdrive wasn't really needed for an automatic car, but on a manual, it is almost essential. I like what you are doing here, much cheaper than the typical TKO solution. Did the trans fit in the tunnel without modification, other than the shifter location?
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jboymechanic
Posted 2019-08-27 5:25 PM (#586666 - in reply to #487183)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth Belvedere



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The AX15 fits very well in the trans tunnel, only mod was to cut access for the shifter. Since the 4 speed has the shifter on the side of the transmission with external shift linkage it actually required a lot of cutting on the side of the trans tunnel. Long term I will clean up the 4 speed trans tunnel mods.
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oldwood
Posted 2019-08-29 10:36 PM (#586767 - in reply to #487183)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth Belvedere


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The Mighty 1090 KAAY. Guys you need to look out for the Closet Prius drivers. Weirdo's
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jboymechanic
Posted 2019-09-05 9:36 PM (#587130 - in reply to #586767)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth Belvedere



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Everything is set other than the trans cross member and drive shaft. Here are pictures of the trans in the car and how it fits up with the engine.



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jboymechanic
Posted 2019-09-23 1:38 PM (#587879 - in reply to #487183)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth Belvedere



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Location: Muskego, WI
Trans crossmember is in, shifter is bent up and in. I started the car and shifted through the gears, including reverse, without the driveshaft. No nasty noises, trans sounds good. Working on ordering the driveshaft today. Once the driveshaft is in and everything still sounds good I will change to my 2.94 gears.
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Powerflite
Posted 2019-09-23 2:32 PM (#587880 - in reply to #487183)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth Belvedere



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Was it just a single bend to the shifter you had to do? If I were to do this, I would want it to look like the original 3 speed floor shifter for this time.
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jboymechanic
Posted 2019-09-23 10:56 PM (#587891 - in reply to #587880)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth Belvedere



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Location: Muskego, WI
I only bent the shifter where there were already bends, so I just had to bend them farther. I didn't want to end up with more than the two bends that already existed. This is what I ended up with, doesn't look great but not much I can do. The shifter is pretty far forward, so I had to bend it at nearly 90 degrees overall to clear the dash. It is in a good position for me to comfortably grip the knob and shift into all gears.



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Attachments thumb_IMG_0251_1024.jpg (246KB - 30 downloads)
Attachments thumb_IMG_0252_1024.jpg (231KB - 30 downloads)
Attachments thumb_IMG_0253_1024.jpg (139KB - 30 downloads)
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jboymechanic
Posted 2019-10-02 9:35 AM (#588299 - in reply to #487183)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth Belvedere



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Location: Muskego, WI
Drive shaft is in and I was able to take the car on a quick test drive. Took it up to 60, didn't seem to be any issues, but time will tell. Shifting, both up and down, is SOOO much better than the old A833. First gear, with a final ratio of 12.68 (3.83 first gear x 3.31 rear) is too short, but my 2.94 gear set will help. Not sure if that will happen this year yet, but that would reduce my final ratio in first to 11.26, a 12% reduction.

I still also need to patch up my floor and install my shifter boot, but I'll wait to make sure everything is good to go first. Clutch feels good, no strange noises like I had with the hydraulic release bearing. Very happy so far, but need to build some confidence in the whole setup.
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Powerflite
Posted 2019-10-02 10:55 AM (#588307 - in reply to #487183)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth Belvedere



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Congratulations! Now you have a slave cylinder for the clutch? Is it basically what the trans used in its stock form?
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jboymechanic
Posted 2019-10-02 11:45 AM (#588312 - in reply to #487183)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth Belvedere



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Thanks Nathan. If you scroll up to some of my posts from earlier this year you'll see the whole setup, which is all factory Dodge Dakota/Jeep Cherokee release bearing, clutch fork, and slave cylinder.
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