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Adding power brakes - options? Jump to page : 1 Now viewing page 1 [50 messages per page] | View previous thread :: View next thread |
Forward Look Technical Discussions -> Brakes, Wheels and Tires | Message format |
oldhippie |
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Veteran Posts: 131 | My 1960 Matador currently has manual brakes, and a single pot MC. I want to convert to a dual MC with power brakes and am looking for options. A buddy turned me on to these guys, and I wanted to know if anyone has any experience with them? Am I right in thinking this could be used with my current brake pedal assy, if they have something that will work with my model/year? It seems pretty pricey, once I add in the line kit, & such. How inexpensively could I add reliable power brakes to my car via other options? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
mstrug |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 6487 Location: Newark, Texas (Fort Worth) | I am going to get a power brake booster for a cuda with a hemi. It raises the master cylinder up out of the way. On ebay for $224 with adjustable push rod. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mopar-8-Dual-Diaphram-POWER-Brake-Booster-M... | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
57chizler |
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Expert Posts: 3768 Location: NorCal | Any power assembly can be made to fit in the original MC location, easier if it closely matches the original MC bolt pattern....personally, I'd stick with a vacuum booster. One problem you may have is the pedal ratio, the manual brake pedal ratio is a lot higher (6-1 to 8-1) than the usual PB ratio (4-1) so you could have "touchy" brakes with the higher ratio. A smaller booster with a large-bore MC like the popular 7" hot rod units might work better. http://www.ebay.com/itm/7-ZINC-STREET-ROD-RAT-ROD-POWER-BRAKE-BOOST... | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
oldhippie |
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Veteran Posts: 131 | I hate to ask what may be a silly question, but can someone explain to me the calculation for the pedal ratio? I really don't understand what that's about... | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
1960fury |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 7385 Location: northern germany | oldhippie - 2015-08-19 6:18 PM I hate to ask what may be a silly question, but can someone explain to me the calculation for the pedal ratio? I really don't understand what that's about... simply put, you got more leverage with the manual pedal. less effort but longer pedal (m/c piston) travel. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
oldhippie |
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Veteran Posts: 131 | So, is it a difference in the pivot-point distance? (distance from the pedal anchor point to the m/c piston attachment point?) sorry again, but I've never seen these assemblies before and I'm finding it difficult locating these images online... Edited by oldhippie 2015-08-19 6:57 PM | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
60 dart |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 8947 Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | i've never really pondered the pedal lengths , never really had to but here's a question maybe someone can answer . if the pedal ratios are different between power and non-power brakes , why do they have interchangeable bolt on pedal pad receivers -------------------------------------------later | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
58coupe |
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Expert Posts: 1739 Location: Alaska | 57-61 Mopar manual and power pedal assys. are different but some manufacturers just have 2 holes in the brake pedal arm, one for power and one for manual. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
oldhippie |
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Veteran Posts: 131 | That's what I was beginning to wonder - why not just change the mounting location for the piston linkage? I mean, as long as each end pivots, it seems like an effective method. Obviously it would require some calculations because it wouldn't be the same straight-line action, but... Edited by oldhippie 2015-08-20 10:49 AM | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
oldhippie |
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Veteran Posts: 131 | Also found this interesting... =====Pedal ratio/bore size vs. pressure output=====
Edited by oldhippie 2015-08-20 10:53 AM | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
oldhippie |
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Veteran Posts: 131 | Now that I see these numbers, I'm wondering... if I have a 6:1 manual pedal ratio, and change out the M/C to 1 1/8 bore size, wouldn't that reduce pressure enough to prevent the brakes from being "touchy"? On the other hand, were I to have a bore size of 7/8, is it possible that there would be enough pedal pressure that I wouldn't need a power assist unit at all? I would guess the only issue with a small diameter bore would be whether there was enough fluid to build pressure in all four caliper pistons!? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ttotired |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 8443 Location: Perth Australia | Yep Smaller bore will require a longer piston travel to move the appropriate amount of fluid, which = a long pedal This where the trade off happens, the small bore will give you really good brakes, but a really crappy pedal, so if you increase the m/c bore size, you decrease pedal travel, but increase the amount of force (from your foot) needed to operate the brakes | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
oldhippie |
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Veteran Posts: 131 | Been searching/reading the site for the last couple days on this topic - nobody mentions specifics, so I'm wondering if anyone could confirm if either of these might work, and if not, what might? http://www.classicindustries.com/product/1972/mopar/parts/mn5008.ht... http://www.classicindustries.com/product/1972/mopar/parts/mm3066.ht... edit to add: now that I think about it, the rear axle I picked up has no brake components at all, so I'm buying everything new. Would it make sense for me to just get the rear disc conversion kit as well? If I wanted to do it in the future, I'd have to change out the master cylinder, right? Just trying to weight the pros/cons of doing it each way. Thanks for any input! Edited by oldhippie 2017-04-17 11:10 AM | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
57chizler |
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Expert Posts: 3768 Location: NorCal | The 2nd example is like the one Marc mentioned in the first reply, it uses the bracket that raises the booster and has a pivot that reduces the pedal ratio for use with the manual brake pedal/lever. Your example uses the popular 4-wheel Corvette disc brake MC while Marc's uses the Mopar front disc MC. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
oldhippie |
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Veteran Posts: 131 | thanks, think I'll probably be going with that 2nd example then. Also, I found this interesting, but I wasn't sure where to post it - not sure it deserves its own thread, but some may find it useful... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oi4BnNA3Ep4#t=2066.749825 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
oldhippie |
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Veteran Posts: 131 | Think I misunderstood earlier, but now I see the M/C differences. If I go with the MM3066 from Classic Ind, I'd have an equal-capacity M/C that would work if I eventually converted the rear to disc as well (prop. valve only needed), but if I want to use it for disc/drum setup, I'd need both a proportioning valve and a residual valve for the drums, correct? (neither of which come with that kit.) The ebay one should have a residual valve in the M/C, right? Also, it comes with a prop valve. The only issue would be with the M/C, if I wanted to convert to rear disc later, I think? (old one sold out, is this the same?) http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mopar-8-Dual-Diaphram-POWER-Brake-Booster-M... | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
oldhippie |
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Veteran Posts: 131 | Hrm. Now I'm just confusing myself. 1st link shows a setup for disc/drum (that looks surprisingly identical to the 2nd link below): http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mopar-8-Dual-Diaphram-POWER-Brake-Booster-M... 2nd link shows a setup for disc/disc, but shows an unequal chamber M/C, which doesn't seem like it would have enough volume for the rear calipers (2 1/8" dia pistons): http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mopar-8-Dual-Diaphram-POWER-Brake-Booster-M... Both of these appear to have the 4-bolt M/C. This 3rd link shows a 1 1/8" bore, 2-bolt M/C that seems to be for teh same application, just from a different reseller. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mopar-8-Dual-Power-Brake-booster-1-1-8-bore... When I talked to the reseller @ the 1st two links, they told me the M/C bore for theirs was 1", and that it would be enough volume for rear calipers!? Sorry if I'm being a P.I.A., but can anyone offer some advice? I've decided to go ahead and convert to 4-whl disc, which is why I'm re-visiting this topic. Edited by oldhippie 2017-05-25 6:06 PM | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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