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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1102
 
Location: Hayward, Calif | Hey Guys, ( 59 Chry wiring harness ). I have the 360 from a 76 Dodge camper trk installed and am hooking up the harness. I got the alt. and the electronic harness from the camper trk and that seems to be going well. But ran into a snag with the neutral safety switch. The safety switch has 3 round terminals, looks like the 2 outside terminals are power in and the center terminal is grd. My thought was to run a circuit from the start terminal on the ign switch to the neutral safety switch than to the starter solenoid which would then engage the starter. But I have a funny feeling I'm going about this backwards and may be putting too much load on the safety switch. I have an aftermarket starter solenoid switch mounted on inner fender, near the batt. One side is cable from the batt and other side is cable to the starter. One small post goes to solenoid on the starter and the other post is the start circuit from the ign switch. Thanks, Jerry |
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Expert
Posts: 3775
  
Location: NorCal | 59 in Calif - 2015-12-04 1:39 PM
I have an aftermarket starter solenoid switch mounted on inner fender, near the batt. One side is cable from the batt and other side is cable to the starter. One small post goes to solenoid on the starter and the other post is the start circuit from the ign switch.
I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around the solenoid wiring. Normally, on a solenoid with two small terminals (both terminals unlabeled), one wire goes to Start on the ign. switch and the other goes to ground which would be ideal because you could use the center prong of the 3-prong NSS for ground in Neutral and Park. But you say neither terminal goes to ground?
The other type of two-terminal solenoid has one terminal labeled "S" and the other is labeled "I". In this case the solenoid is grounded and the "S" terminal activates the solenoid; the "I" terminal is ballast resistor bypass. |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 8443
Location: Perth Australia | Chiz is right with the solenoids
The first type (no markings) is found mostly on mopars, the second type are mostly ford (the "I" terminal becomes +ve once the solenoid is activated, although, if the ignition wire is connected, it will also have a resisted +ve on it with the key on, about 8V)
Besides that above, I am wondering about the solenoid on the starter?
This is not mopar specific, but normally, if a vehicle has a fender mounted solenoid, there wasnt one mounted on the starter
Only "wire" to the starter was the cable that is the output from the fender solenoid
It is possible to set a starter that has a solenoid built into it up on a fender solenoid car, but I cant remember ever seeing it done factory?
From your post, I get that this is an engine update, so, if the starter from the donor has a solenoid on it, where the original didnt, there are 2 basic ways to connect the starter, 1 is to leave the fender solenoid on and connect the output cable to the top stud on the starter solenoid and make a bridge wire to go from that top stud to the small solenoid activation terminal
Second way is to remove the fender solenoid completely and run your cable and wiring to the starter solenoid (like how it was in the donor vehicle)
As for the neutral switch, I am not sure of what switch (or circuit) the donor has/had, but its most likely got a reverse connection on it as well as neutral, so you need to be a bit careful there
I would suggest you get a wiring schematic for your donor, so you can see and work around the differences, once you see, it wont be hard to swing everything around to work
I think some pictures here would be good
Edited by ttotired 2015-12-05 6:20 PM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1102
Location: Hayward, Calif | I think I know why this is getting messy. I'm trying to put a new age starter in an old age electrical sys. (square peg in a round hole) I visually checked the starting circuit in my 77 Cordoba and it is same as the 76 camper sys. The 76 360 starter has a somewhat internal solenoid which requires that 10 ga activation wire. Looks like I'm trying to double solenoid the start circuit. I will need to remove the 59 fender mounted solenoid and wire in the 76 solenoid which is also externally mounted, but looks a little different. This will probably clear up some of this confusion with the NSS. As soon as I can find the camera (location unknown) I'l post some pics. Thanks guys, appreciate your help. Jerry |
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Expert
Posts: 2312
Location: Arizona | One thing to verify is if the "new" system uses a ground thru the NSS or whether it was set up to complete the positive leg. The old system, as I understand it, used the NSS to provide the ground connection. |
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Expert
Posts: 3775
Location: NorCal | On the 3-prong NSS, the two outer pins are for the BU lights; they complete a circuit only when the shifter is in Reverse so they aren't any use for the start circuit.
The later starter relay wiring is shown in the pic below. Some even later relays have an additional terminal used for ballast resistor bypass.
Edited by 57chizler 2015-12-06 3:08 PM
 (Relay wired.jpg)
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 Relay wired.jpg (41KB - 226 downloads)
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1102
Location: Hayward, Calif | 57Chilzer, Thanks for the pic. That is the same relay used in the 76 camper trk, so I removed the previous solenoid and installed this relay in it's place. I removed the wire harness from the 76 and identified each of the circuits and wired it in. It also had the wires going to the NSS so was able to correct previous wiring. So all is good !! Now on to the horn relay. Thanks Guys !! |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 9898
Location: Lower Mainland BC | Rather that start a new thread, I thought that I would just tag onto this one.
Patient = 56 Dodge V8 with Powerflite. During the initial attempt at starting it back in mid-September after not being started from 10 to 24 years ("barn" find car), it was determined that the neutral safety switch was not working. The short term solution was to permanently ground the wire that went to the switch. While this solved the problem in the short term, it is dangerous to continue on. To this end, I have purchased a new 1703 283 neutral safety switch. I understand that a rod or something pushes the plunger on the tip of the switch. However, while testing the NOS switch, I can NOT determine whether the switch is functioning properly, i.e. creating an electrical flow path from the terminal on the other end of the switch, through the switch to ground. It almost seems like the plunger part of the flow path, not just a means of interrupting the electrical flow.
How is this switch supposed to work? Where how do I test it with a multimeter (so I can test the old one to determine whether the issue is the switch or the rod that actuates the plunger).
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 8947
Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | when i installed the 69 383 in red , i used a similar new relay for my starter as posted by 57 . thing is being new don't mean much these days . a replacement is settin
on the fender waitin to go in-------------------------------------------------------later |
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Expert
Posts: 3775
Location: NorCal |
The NSS provides a path to ground through the internal shift lever (rooster comb); in the pic below the switch/lever combo on the far left is the pre-'64. With a meter hooked to the threaded stud there should be continuity through the switch to the spring-loaded plunger on the opposite end of the switch whether or not the plunger is depressed.
It's actually pretty rare to find one that doesn't work, the usual reason for replacement is fluid leakage where the metal housing crimps onto the threaded stud insulator.
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 9898
Location: Lower Mainland BC | 57chizler - 2016-12-16 6:28 PM The NSS provides a path to ground through the internal shift lever (rooster comb); in the pic below the switch/lever combo on the far left is the pre-'64. With a meter hooked to the threaded stud there should be continuity through the switch to the spring-loaded plunger on the opposite end of the switch whether or not the plunger is depressed. It's actually pretty rare to find one that doesn't work, the usual reason for replacement is fluid leakage where the metal housing crimps onto the threaded stud insulator.
Thanks so much. My NSS is like the one on the left. I had *NO* idea what the actuation arm looked like. Someone suggested that is was a rod. I tried the continuity test again with my digital multimeter (DMM) and got inconclusive results (again). Took the NSS downstairs to my workshop and tested it with my old Radio Shack mini analogue multimeter (AMM) Sure enough it behaved as you suggested. Continuity at all positions to the tip of the plunger. NO continuity to the body of the switch. I will probably remove the existing switch and test it (now that I know to use the AMM and not the DMM.
Live and learn; too soon old, too late smart.
Edited by 56D500boy 2016-12-16 11:03 PM
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Neutral safety switch
