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Dodge/Desoto Dual Filament Tail Light Conversion
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Powerflite
Posted 2016-01-05 11:53 PM (#500130)
Subject: Dodge/Desoto Dual Filament Tail Light Conversion



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I was disappointed to find out that the tail lights on my '58 Desoto had only single filaments, each for a separate function. The bottom is just a brake light, the middle for reverse, and the top are driving lights. I would like all three or maybe two lit up for driving lights and top & bottom lit for brakes. But...the sockets have these extra long extensions on them that make changing them out problematic. Does anyone have a good solution for this or has done it before?

I have thought about using Standard S-29 socket that is still available and using that to convert my old socket, but the only way I can think of doing it is to: 1. Remove the pronged mount on the end of it somehow. 2. Build a long tube for what remains of the socket to go into and weld it to the tube. And then weld a new mount near the end of the tube. Sounds difficult to achieve, but I would really like more lights on the back of my car.



(DeSoto Bulb.jpg)



(Standard_S-29.jpg)



(Standard__S-29.jpg)



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Attachments DeSoto Bulb.jpg (70KB - 225 downloads)
Attachments Standard_S-29.jpg (14KB - 192 downloads)
Attachments Standard__S-29.jpg (25KB - 199 downloads)
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jimntempe
Posted 2016-01-06 5:49 PM (#500206 - in reply to #500130)
Subject: Re: Dodge/Desoto Dual Filament Tail Light Conversion



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If you want to use your existing single wire sockets one way is to go to whatever LED style brake light bulb will fit in them. Using the brake light bright LED bulb will provide the BRIGHT brake light function. Then you would need to build "isolator and voltage reduction circuits" that will allow you to connect both the INPUT power from the running lights and brake lights to the isolator and then the output from the isolator to the single wire from the sockets on each side. Presumably two sockets on each side; one isolator on each side feeding them. You could do it with regular bulbs too but the problem with that is you have to drop the voltage thru resistors and with regular bulbs (and their high amps) the resistors get real hot. If you use LED bulbs the amps are much much lower so the resistors barely get warm.

I made up isolators for my Fin Light conversion on my Matador. It lets the LED strip function as both brake lights and running lights, same as you would want to do with your sockets. The info is in the attached pictures. You might need to use more (or less) resistance to get the amount of dimming you want when it's only got the running light circuit powered on. That part is trial and error. You can mock it up on the bench and try different resistances till you hit the resistance that gives you the dimming you want. You must use the diodes to keep the brake and running light circuits isolated.



(isolation module and resistor pack anno IMG_2194 s update.jpg)



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Attachments isolation module and resistor pack anno IMG_2194 s update.jpg (246KB - 216 downloads)
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ttotired
Posted 2016-01-06 5:50 PM (#500207 - in reply to #500130)
Subject: Re: Dodge/Desoto Dual Filament Tail Light Conversion



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You might be able to use something like this

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pigtail-Connector-Socket-Housing-Plug-Doubl...

or parts of it

They are called pig tails and there are thousands of different styles if these ones (I these are right) wont work

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Powerflite
Posted 2016-01-06 7:30 PM (#500230 - in reply to #500207)
Subject: Re: Dodge/Desoto Dual Filament Tail Light Conversion



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Thanks Mick, but unfortunately, the housing that the bulb plugs into is different too so an 1157 bulb wont physically mate up well in an 1156 socket.

Using one of these would make it easier to attach the longer tube to it, and to do the welding, but I would still need to remove the mount from the S-29 or equivalent and weld it onto the tube.



(Socket.jpg)



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Attachments Socket.jpg (45KB - 202 downloads)
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Powerflite
Posted 2016-01-06 7:47 PM (#500234 - in reply to #500206)
Subject: Re: Dodge/Desoto Dual Filament Tail Light Conversion



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Thanks Jim, I hadn't even considered an electrical solution. I drew up what I thought you have there and it makes sense to me now. Does it look right? How well do the power resistors dim the light power? This would effectively lower the input voltage to the LED's. That doesn't pose a problem with them?



(Electrical Isolation.jpg)



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mstrug
Posted 2016-01-06 7:51 PM (#500236 - in reply to #500130)
Subject: Re: Dodge/Desoto Dual Filament Tail Light Conversion



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If you can solder with a #1 tip on a map or acetylene/oxygen torch set you can make this! use the correct end tube to your old socket. Just cut off any metal not needed. Silver solder takes more heat. A flux core 66/44 should work if you have that already. Marc.
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jimntempe
Posted 2016-01-08 11:40 PM (#500525 - in reply to #500130)
Subject: Re: Dodge/Desoto Dual Filament Tail Light Conversion



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Powerflight, yes, that looks right to me. The resistors I used dimmed it enough to tell the difference but not a whole lot. They were what I had at the time so I used them. If I did it again I'd put a bit more resistance in to get it a bit dimmer. I'm not aware of the lower voltage being a problem. I think the specs on the LED strips I used said something like 6 - 15 volts. If the voltage got too low they would just not light. You can see them in this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AjZbowJrpo In the video the fin lights don't seem to dim much but you can see them dim in the close up. In "real life" the dimming effect is more apparent. It seems to be difficult to get a good video of LED lights. Since whatever LEDs you might use will have a somewhat different current draw the 20 ohms may be too much or too little. That's why I used two resistors instead of one, I bought several so I could put more on till I got to the point I thought worked right.
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Powerflite
Posted 2016-01-11 1:44 AM (#500659 - in reply to #500525)
Subject: Re: Dodge/Desoto Dual Filament Tail Light Conversion



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Thanks for the video Jim. I really like the fin lights you did.

I am thinking of using this LED dimmer to do it instead. It uses a 555 clock device to do PWM (pulse-width modulation) and turn them on and off very fast, effectively dimming the output. An additional benefit is that it can be brightened and used to flash the lights for an emergency flasher if needed. Alternatively, there is this big device for dimming too. Both of them are very cheap from China on Ebay. The small version has a 6 amp limit, while the bigger one is good to 8 amps. The big one doesn't appear to be able to flash though.



(LEDdimmer.jpg)



(LEDdimmer2.jpg)



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Attachments LEDdimmer.jpg (20KB - 196 downloads)
Attachments LEDdimmer2.jpg (21KB - 176 downloads)
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ToMopar
Posted 2016-01-11 3:40 PM (#500718 - in reply to #500130)
Subject: Re: Dodge/Desoto Dual Filament Tail Light Conversion



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Nathan,

I think the same as you. The Desoto has this wonderful tail light assembly, - my idea is that top (rear light) and bottom (brake) should been fitted with a double filament. First for lamp, 2nd for brake.
I am sure I will solve the tube extension problem, and in any case I do not use take this ** LED stuff. But is the wiring strong enough to cope the double filament bulbs.
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Powerflite
Posted 2016-01-11 5:06 PM (#500737 - in reply to #500718)
Subject: Re: Dodge/Desoto Dual Filament Tail Light Conversion



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The wiring shouldn't be an issue as long as you can get the sockets to work. Even on multiple light setups. The factory only sent one 18 or 16? gauge wire for all driving lights in the back of the car.

Edited by Powerflite 2016-01-11 5:08 PM
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jimntempe
Posted 2016-01-11 8:41 PM (#500778 - in reply to #500130)
Subject: Re: Dodge/Desoto Dual Filament Tail Light Conversion



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Powerflight, if you used those with diodes they should allow you to stick with the nice bright incandescent brake light bulb if you want instead of LEDs. Was that what you were thinking? I just looked at the little ones on ebay and it says "three channel" 2 amps per channel. What the heck does that mean?

Edited by jimntempe 2016-01-11 8:46 PM
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Powerflite
Posted 2016-01-11 10:47 PM (#500791 - in reply to #500778)
Subject: Re: Dodge/Desoto Dual Filament Tail Light Conversion



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No, I was thinking of using them with 1156 LED bulbs. These controllers are adjustable over a large range without dropping current across a power resistor, so I like it better for that reason. The flash ability is also a bonus.

I didn't get that 3 channel stuff either, but I think it just means that each LED is supposed to have 3 different chips in it, and I guess they are 3 different colors. But I don't understand how they could possibly control them separately with a single wire. But this controller is called a single color controller, and yet it has a button on it labeled color. So yes, I don't understand it. But I saw a video on Youtube of it in action on an LED bulb and it did what I want it to do so I will give it a try. If it goes bad, I might lose $1 in the process and I will cry bitterly.



(33SMD_5630,Cree.jpg)



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Attachments 33SMD_5630,Cree.jpg (77KB - 195 downloads)
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Powerflite
Posted 2016-01-12 5:09 PM (#500851 - in reply to #500718)
Subject: Re: Dodge/Desoto Dual Filament Tail Light Conversion



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ToMopar - 2016-01-11 12:40 PM
Nathan,
I think the same as you. The Desoto has this wonderful tail light assembly, - my idea is that top (rear light) and bottom (brake) should been fitted with a double filament. First for lamp, 2nd for brake.
I am sure I will solve the tube extension problem, and in any case I do not use take this ** LED stuff. But is the wiring strong enough to cope the double filament bulbs.


Tom, when you come up with a good way to make those dual filament sockets, post it up here. I would be very interested to see how you do it.
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Powerflite
Posted 2016-01-23 2:46 AM (#502053 - in reply to #500851)
Subject: Re: Dodge/Desoto Dual Filament Tail Light Conversion



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I just realized that a dual filament socket with the extended length can be had from a '55-'59 Chrysler & Plymouth (and probably many other years & models too) because they just used one dual filament bulb. That would be a lot easier than trying to make one from scratch. And I happen to have a wiring harness from a '57 Windsor that I parted out. That gives me 2 of them that I am going to use for the reverse lights. I will get an 1157 dual filament bulb with white and amber LEDs (white and red isn't available in the high power LED's - just some old low power stuff) and use it in the reverse light socket. That way, I will light the amber side of the bulb when I hit the brakes or use the turn signal, and I will light the white side when I put the car in reverse.

I finally received my LED bulbs and dimmers from China. These LED bulbs are VERY bright. Check out the pictures here. The photo makes the light look more yellow, but they are actually a true red all around. They are at least 3-4 times brighter than standard bulbs and only consume 1.5 amps each. The key to getting really bright bulbs is to get the newest LED's. They are the 5630 version or CREE for the large center LED's. I am planning to light the top and bottom with a dimmer for driving lights, and light all three at high power for brake & turn signal, but the middle will be amber as I said. I am thinking of using 1 smaller LED dimmer for all of the driving lights. It has a 6 amp limit and the 4 lights will be 6amps max. That is too close for comfort, but I think it should be OK as I will always use them dimmed so I will never crank them up to the full current anyway.

I just ordered my power diodes from Digikey and I will start to wire everything up as soon as they arrive. This is a really neat solution and I want to thank Jim again for showing it to me.



(LED Rear View.jpg)



(LED Side View.jpg)



(RedInReverseLight.jpg)



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Attachments LED Rear View.jpg (76KB - 188 downloads)
Attachments LED Side View.jpg (79KB - 183 downloads)
Attachments RedInReverseLight.jpg (90KB - 180 downloads)
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Powerflite
Posted 2016-01-31 2:10 AM (#502805 - in reply to #502053)
Subject: Re: Dodge/Desoto Dual Filament Tail Light Conversion



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I got the diodes & cheap pig-tailed dimmer all wired up to the LED's and tried it out. The dimmer seemed to be DOA. It did nothing. No dimming, no flashing, nothing. All it did was pass full current to the LED's - all the time. I tried a better ground connection and only a single bulb and still nothing. I then tried another one and got the same result. So I tried the bigger unit in the plastic box and it did the same thing. The knob seemed to do nothing and the LED's were full bright all the time. I don't know what is going on because I don't see any reason for these things not to be able to dim these LED's and I definitely had them wired up properly.

After crying bitterly and repeatedly over it as I said I would, I tried out some cheap 1/4 watt resistors from my son's electronics kit and they worked beautifully. I thought they would quickly get too hot because they aren't rated for the 1-2 watts that I was putting through them, but they didn't and worked great. Perhaps it was because the LED's have a resistance of their own so the external resistor wasn't seeing a full power dump to ground? Having a full set of cheap resistors to play with gave me the ability to try out a lot of different values. It seemed to give the best contrast in brightness without dimming the lights too much at about 300 ohms. 470 ohms seems a little too dim and 220 ohms doesn't give quite enough contrast to the brake lights. So I will go out and purchase a 1 watt, 270-330 ohm resistor from Radio Shack to solder them into place, and I will be done...Except that they sent me the wrong dual filament bulb for the amber reverse lights, so I am still waiting on that.
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jimntempe
Posted 2016-01-31 8:58 PM (#502901 - in reply to #500130)
Subject: Re: Dodge/Desoto Dual Filament Tail Light Conversion



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That resistance value surpises me. I dimmed mine with 20 ohms. I think the current draw was an amp or two. My ceramic resistors went from ambient temp of about 75 degrees up to about 95 degrees under full load.
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Powerflite
Posted 2016-02-08 7:37 PM (#503631 - in reply to #502901)
Subject: Re: Dodge/Desoto Dual Filament Tail Light Conversion



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The higher resistance works to your advantage since with much less current able to get through, the resistor doesn't heat up nearly as much so you can use a lower power resistor. It also gives you more discrimination between the brake & driving lights. These bulbs may react quite a bit differently than your LED strip though, so your optimal value may very well be different. I ended up using two 560 ohm, 1/2 watt resistors in parallel that gives me an effective 280 ohm, 1 watt resistor. I could have just ordered the single value resistor from Digikey but I was able to get the lower power versions at Radio Shack, so I used them instead. But the inherent resistance of this LED bulb must be pretty high because it really doesn't seem to consume 1 watt of power.

I also figured out why the Chinese dimmers didn't work. They require a separate ground from the source to the LED (would have been nice to know that ahead of time). The grounds can't be connected together. That is pretty impossible to do in this situation unless I use a plastic socket with a separate ground wire. But even if I use a separate ground, they don't work very well. I don't think these are expecting this type of LED that these bulbs have in them. The dimming is very non-linear with it doing almost nothing for the first 1/4 movement, then it dims dramatically and starts visibly flashing even though it isn't supposed to. Further reduction just slows the flash speed. That tells me there is some build up of threshold current that is causing that to happen and that it doesn't do anything until it builds up, causing the flash. Anyway, long story short, don't use them.

I really like how my new lights look. I will try to get a video posted sometime of how it looks with all three going on.
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Powerflite
Posted 2016-02-08 7:50 PM (#503632 - in reply to #503631)
Subject: Re: Dodge/Desoto Dual Filament Tail Light Conversion



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I also forgot to mention that I was surprised to find out that the original bulb sockets are plated with nickel. That allows you to solder directly to them. So I soldered ground wires to all the sockets and bolted the ends of the wires to the frame at the antennae mounts. This not only provides a separate ground that is less prone to corrosion & contact issues, but also ties them all together so that if one socket loses ground for some reason, that it can pull a ground connection from a different socket.
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Powerflite
Posted 2016-02-12 1:39 PM (#503970 - in reply to #503632)
Subject: Re: Dodge/Desoto Dual Filament Tail Light Conversion



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Here is a picture of my lights in action. I decided not to add the yellow light to the reverse lens after all because I didn't like it. The yellow light made the red lens look dirty. The light was kinda brown looking. From the back with the white reverse lens it looked OK, but I didn't like it overall. So I am leaving the reverse lights with a single bright white LED bulb just for reverse. You can compare the brightness of the driving lights to the turn signal from the photo. The driving lights are also about the same brightness as my wife's 2001 corolla. This was just after dusk so it was a little dark, but the sky was still bright blue.

I made a video too, but it didn't turn out that great and I don't know how to post videos so I decided not to do it.

Edited by Powerflite 2016-02-12 1:46 PM




(DualLights.jpg)



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ToMopar
Posted 2016-02-14 5:43 AM (#504102 - in reply to #500130)
Subject: Re: Dodge/Desoto Dual Filament Tail Light Conversion



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yeah,- that looks great !!
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Powerflite
Posted 2016-02-14 8:52 AM (#504112 - in reply to #504102)
Subject: Re: Dodge/Desoto Dual Filament Tail Light Conversion



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Thanks Tom

Edit: One thing I forgot to mention is that I had to change the flasher to use an electronic version. The old flasher wouldn't work with the low current LED bulbs, but the electronic flasher didn't have any issues.

Edited by Powerflite 2016-02-14 7:01 PM
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60 dart
Posted 2016-02-14 6:33 PM (#504149 - in reply to #500130)
Subject: Re: Dodge/Desoto Dual Filament Tail Light Conversion



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i just removed cleaned the lens's of my dart . first i painted the inside of the bucket with industrial aluminum paint thats very reflective . while cleaning the lens i noticed one was a very much
nicer red , more prismatic . so i looked/checked the others i have . out of 4 sets(8) 3 were a way different color , brighter red . so i matched a set and installed them . the difference is like
night and day , very much brighter . looking at em i don't think it has anything to do with the age but more like they were made at a different factory or time back then as all have the same
oem markings . i'd say they are a good 40-50% brighter . i'd also bet the aluminum paint i used is way more reflective than the zinc coating that was oem inside the light bucket --------------------------later
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