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Location: Ramona, CA | Sonoramic60 - 2016-08-02 5:11 PM
The Letter Cars were, and still are, magnificent automobiles but unfortunately came to fore just as the demographics of the automotive world were changing. While Rodger talked about the F being designed for "the sportsman," punk kids such as me were starting to get the car bug. Letter Cars were widely and respectfully regarded as the "banker's hot rod," but bankers didn't drag Main on Friday and Saturday nights and after NASCAR and Ford effectively legislated them off the tracks. they weren't seen there either. Even college boys could work at high-paying summer jobs or part-time year-round jobs could earn money not only to pay tuition, but also to buy a car. However, while power did appeal to some and luxury to others, very few wanted both and even fewer considered themselves "sportsmen." Hence the new waves hitting the shores of Detroit were the Muscle and Pony cars or true sportcars which offered flash and dash without the heavy price.
Too bad, because the Fs in particular offered everything, but at a prohibitive price for the market then.
Joe
The letter cars were never meant to be a mass market vehicle but instead a halo car to get people into the showroom. There have been enthusiasts for them since the day they were launched. The 300 clubs were formed in the mid-1970s while many of these were just used cars. If you look at the original newsletters and the current club rosters, you see many of the same names. I'm sure Bob Rodger and the other engineers did not like the cheapening of the series with the introduction of the sport series in 1962, in fact you could order the 300H drivetrain in the sport series. But the sport series did lead to more sales and it's a long standing marketing tradition to push older products down the ladder as new names come up to the top.
My own connection to the 300 came from my first car being a 1964 Chrysler 300 Sport Coupe (non-letter) that I got at age 16 in 1976. I got it from my parents, they only had it because my dad needed a car to drive around in San Francisco while he was working there. Otherwise they mostly had GM family cars. One I got into it and started looking into the history of the 300, I learned about the letter cars and then of course wanted to upgrade. My first 300F came in 1989 when I bought a rusted out one for $500. It took until this year for me to realize my dream of actually owning and driving a letter car. |
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| Nick --
To a great extent, you are correct that the 300s (especially the earlier C-300s, Bs, Cs, Ds, Es, and particularly the Fs) were intended to get buyers into the showroom as well as getting the "sportsman's" market, but don't forget my premise that by 1960, the economy that was in the doldrums in the 1950s was starting to boom and younger guys, who didn't want a station wagon or a "SEE-dan" were looking for cars. Witness the explosion of the Impala S/S and the Goat.
True, we remembered the mystique of the earlier 300s, but now we could buy a pretty sharp car with such things as 4-speeds and 350-400 HP at a fraction of the cost of a Letter Car. That's why a dealer who wouldn't let a snot-nosed kid of 14 into his showroom to look at a 300C up close, bent over backward in September 1964 to let that same kid (then 22) buy a '65 Sport Fury with the 426-S and 4-speed that would be seen on the street.
I'm definitely not trying to slight the 300s in any way, it's just that I feel their time came and went, much to our loss.
Joe |
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Location: Ramona, CA | I totally understand what you're saying. There have always been ebbs and flows in the auto industry. People deride the Mustang II but it sold way better than earlier Mustangs and it all had to do with the times. The 300M was quite popular when new and for a long time afterward but it wasn't even supposed to be a Chrysler, it was an Eagle design but they dumped Eagle before it came out.
I lived in a very small town where there were no car dealers, not even a used car lot so what you learned about cars came from high school or your parents. I mostly drove my parent's station wagon to school once I could drive. I learned to love the '64 300 my dad had as it sat unused in the driveway for a few years before I got it. My little brother and I used to play around in it and run the battery down playing with the windows. My first car could have been a 1960 MGA twincam that a neighbor was selling for $800 but my parents wouldn't let me buy it. |
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Location: Chicago | Ziegler F GT sold for $440,000 tonite. |
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Location: Ramona, CA | R41HP - 2016-08-20 10:02 PM
Ziegler F GT sold for $440,000 tonite.
Thanks. At the Mecum auction in 2010 it got bid up to $275,000 without selling.
Then it sold at the Gooding & Company auction in Ameilia Island in 2013 for $215,000.
https://youtu.be/iDyJIUwnLr8?list=PLaKQtDii2POjHizPEuu3V7dfMw2LMpYz3
Edited by NicksGarage 2016-08-21 11:18 AM
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Wow! That's 190k more than I thought it was "worth". That number is shocking to me. Congrats to the seller! |
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Location: Ramona, CA | A really shocking one was a Lincoln MK II that sold for $300,000. Not sure what was so special about it other than being a top notch example. |
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Location: central Illinois | Great seeing the picture of Greg Ziegler with his old car. He repeatedly tried to buy it back from Bob but even if they would've agreed on a price he wouldn't have sold it. Bob added the chrome bits to it and was chided by some in the 300 club because it was not equipped as such from the factory. Bob said the chrome parts were a dealer option which I cannot confirm. He even had the screw type replacement hose clamps chrome plated. |
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Location: Under the X in Texas | "Mac" said down through the years that he had the factory letter or flyer or something that outlined the chrome package as it appeared on his car. He continually said he would produce it. If such ever existed, no one else has ever found a copy of one of the many they must have printed. My principle discussion point on why this "couldn't be" was that the tachometer drive cable housing was even plated and that could have caused problems. And of course screw type hose clamps were not used by Chrysler; they used Corbin clamps. Bob was very proud of his car and we can't blame him for that.
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Location: Ramona, CA | I can't imagine having the chrome valve covers with the intakes covering them up. Just for the fact that it would be hard to keep them shiny.
 (CIMG2966a.JPG)
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 CIMG2966a.JPG (208KB - 108 downloads)
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Veteran
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Location: Chicago | The 300G sales brochure shows a disembodied ram engine with some chrome pieces. (It does not state you could buy it that way.) Maybe that's where he got the idea... |
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Location: Ramona, CA | R41HP - 2016-08-24 12:48 AM
The 300G sales brochure shows a disembodied ram engine with some chrome pieces. (It does not state you could buy it that way.) Maybe that's where he got the idea...
Brochure engine pictures are often not representative of production trim. These are generally display engines similar to what you would see on a stand at the auto show.
Here's a 300F press photo that shows a green booster, blue generator, white valve covers and yellow oil filler.
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at_feb1960_1.jpg (182KB - 118 downloads)
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1960 Chrysler 300F Specials
