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White 1958 Coronet Lancer
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-10-11 12:37 PM (#571498 - in reply to #520945)
Subject: RE: White 1958 Coronet Lancer



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Thanks to John at BigM, I was able to pickup an E-brake light & switch for the car as well as a map light and the rest of the pad trim. The red lens is a little melted from the previous bulb, but it's livable. I haven't figured out what bulb it needs yet. It has 2 contacts on it, which is weird for a single sensor light. Anyone have a recommendation for a bulb or preferably a red LED light to put into here?

Edited by Powerflite 2018-10-11 12:40 PM




(Ebrake Light.jpg)



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wizard
Posted 2018-10-11 1:02 PM (#571502 - in reply to #520945)
Subject: Re: White 1958 Coronet Lancer



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Most probably it's an insulated BA9s receptacle with one 12VDC power lead and one ground lead that Close the Circuit via the emergency brake switch.


I would mount a red BA9s LED - then you can forget all about high temperature, for instance https://www.amazon.com/BA9S-LED-Bulb-Auto-Accessory/dp/B008QDLFD4
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-10-11 2:04 PM (#571511 - in reply to #571498)
Subject: RE: White 1958 Coronet Lancer



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Powerflite - 2018-10-11 12:37 PM
Thanks to John at BigM, I was able to pickup an E-brake light & switch for the car as well as a map light and the rest of the pad trim. The red lens is a little melted from the previous bulb, but it's livable. I haven't figured out what bulb it needs yet. It has 2 contacts on it, which is weird for a single sensor light. Anyone have a recommendation for a bulb or preferably a red LED light to put into here?


I think that the issue with the melted lens is because the factory wired the warning light so it comes on in both ACC and RUN. So if you were sitting with the car and/or engine stopped in Neutral and eBrake engaged and the key turned to ACC so you could listen to the radio while you worked on the engine (or in the trunk), the eBrake warning light would be on the hole time = incandescent heat = melted plastic.

I went through looking for a replacement bulb for mine and found that it was a standard GE 90. That said, I am looking at a) re-wiring the eBrake warning light so it is only powered in the RUN position of the ignition, NOT ACC and b) looking for that BA9s LED bulb that Sven pointed out.

This is what I bought in the meantime:



REFERENCE: http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=67931&...



Edited by 56D500boy 2018-10-11 2:06 PM
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-10-11 2:28 PM (#571515 - in reply to #520945)
Subject: Re: White 1958 Coronet Lancer



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Thanks Sven & Dave. The GE 90 definitely looks like the correct bulb with 2 contacts on it, but the BA9s doesn't look like it will work because it only has one contact. So looks like we need a different LED than that one.
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wizard
Posted 2018-10-11 2:48 PM (#571518 - in reply to #520945)
Subject: Re: White 1958 Coronet Lancer



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The GE 90 is a BA15D bulb, hence bigger in diameter (15mm) than a BA9s (9mm).

Check the diameter first and if the receptacle has two poles (D) or one pole (S)
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-10-11 5:54 PM (#571533 - in reply to #520945)
Subject: Re: White 1958 Coronet Lancer



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It looks like 1178 or 1142 are other numbers with similar specifications. The trick is to get an LED that is short enough to fit. This one looks like it should work for this purpose. I am going to purchase a pair of them and give them a try. Hopefully they aren't garbage production versions like a lot of these things built with superior Chinese quality assurance.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07H49477R/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?s...

This one may be another possibility. I tend to trust these older LEDs for quality more than the newer 5050 die versions. We don't care about side lighting in this application so this may work out well. They also have white versions, but we don't really need that for this. So I change my mind. I think I will buy these instead. Don't know what I am going to do with the green one....

https://www.amazon.com/Shangyuan-Miniature-Navigation-Starboard-Runn...

Edited by Powerflite 2018-10-11 6:05 PM
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-10-19 11:06 AM (#571964 - in reply to #520945)
Subject: RE: White 1958 Coronet Lancer



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I finally got some of the small painting projects done. I was really happy to pick up this nearly perfect horn ring from epay. Cleaned and painted, it looks really nice. Anyone want to buy my old lightly pitted one? I also finished painting the gold hubcaps so they all match now. It's hard to see in the picture, but I also painted the ribs on the sides to make them stand out better.





(New Horn Ring.jpg)



(Gold Knight Caps.jpg)



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56D500boy
Posted 2018-10-19 12:08 PM (#571967 - in reply to #571518)
Subject: Re: White 1958 Coronet Lancer



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Powerflite - 2018-10-11 2:28 PM
Thanks Sven & Dave. The GE 90 definitely looks like the correct bulb with 2 contacts on it, but the BA9s doesn't look like it will work because it only has one contact. So looks like we need a different LED than that one.


wizard - 2018-10-11 2:48 PM
The GE 90 is a BA15D bulb, hence bigger in diameter (15mm) than a BA9s (9mm).)


The GE 90 is indeed a 15 mm base (I had to measure it to confirm). It has a two contact base *BUT*, unlike a two contact 1157 for example, it is a two contact *BUT* only a single filament (not two filament like an 1157). That is because ONE of the GE 90 contacts goes to ground, the other to power, as shown in this wiring diagram:





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Powerflite
Posted 2018-10-19 12:20 PM (#571969 - in reply to #520945)
Subject: RE: White 1958 Coronet Lancer



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I received the LED's yesterday and tried them out today. Unfortunately, I don't know if an LED exists that will work here. It really can't be any bigger in diameter than the base. I couldn't get these to seat into the socket because the larger top section interferred with the tangs that hold the socket to the bezel. If you could get it seated, the larger diameter does fit inside the bezel though. But it doesn't look like it is going to work that way. Back to searching....or maybe if I cut the ends off the tangs I could get it to work? But looking closely at it, it isn't going to work because it is just a little too big.



Edited by Powerflite 2018-10-19 12:25 PM




(Ebrake LED NoGo.jpg)



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wizard
Posted 2018-10-19 12:40 PM (#571970 - in reply to #571967)
Subject: Re: White 1958 Coronet Lancer



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56D500boy - 2018-10-19 6:08 PM

Powerflite - 2018-10-11 2:28 PM
Thanks Sven & Dave. The GE 90 definitely looks like the correct bulb with 2 contacts on it, but the BA9s doesn't look like it will work because it only has one contact. So looks like we need a different LED than that one.


wizard - 2018-10-11 2:48 PM
The GE 90 is a BA15D bulb, hence bigger in diameter (15mm) than a BA9s (9mm).)


The GE 90 is indeed a 15 mm base (I had to measure it to confirm). It has a two contact base *BUT*, unlike a two contact 1157 for example, it is a two contact *BUT* only a single filament (not two filament like an 1157). That is because ONE of the GE 90 contacts goes to ground, the other to power, as shown in this wiring diagram:




Most bulbs used for constant 12VDC feed and switched ground is of the type 1004 (BA15d R10W) https://www.amazon.com/GE-Lighting-1004-Miniature-Bulb/dp/B002CYSBW6
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wizard
Posted 2018-10-19 12:53 PM (#571973 - in reply to #571969)
Subject: RE: White 1958 Coronet Lancer



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Powerflite - 2018-10-19 6:20 PM

I received the LED's yesterday and tried them out today. Unfortunately, I don't know if an LED exists that will work here. It really can't be any bigger in diameter than the base. I couldn't get these to seat into the socket because the larger top section interferred with the tangs that hold the socket to the bezel. If you could get it seated, the larger diameter does fit inside the bezel though. But it doesn't look like it is going to work that way. Back to searching....or maybe if I cut the ends off the tangs I could get it to work? But looking closely at it, it isn't going to work because it is just a little too big.




I had a similar problem with my licens plate LED-bulb and had to cut the tangs slightly for to get it in - check the hole diameter and compare with the LED-bulb.


It seems like 1142 is the same type as 1004 https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/tail-brake-turn/1142-led-bu...
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-10-19 12:57 PM (#571974 - in reply to #571970)
Subject: Re: White 1958 Coronet Lancer



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wizard - 2018-10-19 12:40 PM

Most bulbs used for constant 12VDC feed and switched ground is of the type 1004 (BA15d R10W) https://www.amazon.com/GE-Lighting-1004-Miniature-Bulb/dp/B002CYSBW6


Sven: Agree that the base and the single filament aspects of the 1004 and the GE 90 are similar/identical. *HOWEVER*, the size of the glass globe on the 1004 is too big to work in my 1956 eBrake warning light. Been there, tried that. Hence the GE 90 with its smaller glass globe.

REFERENCE: http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=67931&...

1004 (on the left), GE 90 on the right:



Edited by 56D500boy 2018-10-19 12:59 PM
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wizard
Posted 2018-10-19 1:13 PM (#571977 - in reply to #520945)
Subject: Re: White 1958 Coronet Lancer



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Thanks' Dave, the bulbs I had in my car was tubular BA15d R10W (Now replaced with warm White LED's) - now that I made some searches, they come in tubluar or spheric versions.

http://www.casteels.biz/automotive-products/r5w-r10w-bulbs-spheres-...
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-10-19 2:30 PM (#571985 - in reply to #571977)
Subject: Re: White 1958 Coronet Lancer



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wizard - 2018-10-19 1:13 PM
Thanks' Dave, the bulbs I had in my car was tubular BA15d R10W (Now replaced with warm White LED's) - now that I made some searches, they come in tubluar or spheric versions.


It's all beginning to make (a little) sense now.

Here is a tubular R5W that I found on the internet when I was looking before. Could NOT buy them locally.

So what are the details (link?) for the LED that you are now running?



Edited by 56D500boy 2018-10-19 2:32 PM
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wizard
Posted 2018-10-19 3:51 PM (#571989 - in reply to #520945)
Subject: Re: White 1958 Coronet Lancer



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Dave, I bought el cheapo ones from Singapore - when they arrived after a looong time, I already got my refund from Epain since I was convinced that they were lost. Then I discovered that the had minus in the chassi and 2 plus poles - no good.

I opened them up and resolder them correctly and they have worked for at least 3 years now.


I found these ones on Epain, but they might be too strong for a brake warning light, perhaps for the dome light?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-BA15D-1142-1076-Warm-White-27SMD-LED-230...
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Leadfoot1000
Posted 2018-10-19 11:04 PM (#572015 - in reply to #531404)
Subject: Re: White 1958 Coronet Lancer



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Powerflite - 2017-01-15 9:06 AM

I installed lap belts & replaced the muffler in the car yesterday. The last work to do before moving on to working on the New Yorker. Once the front seat foam stops disintegrating under it, I will paint the floor and install a carpet in there. but this car has become a pretty nice driver so I am going to enjoy it for a little while.


I’m pretty sure the foam will stop disintegrating when there is none left to disintegrate. A few years ago the wife and I took my car to a car show about 30 miles from home. We left very early when it was cool outside and drove with the windows up. In the afternoon it was very hot and we drove home on the freeway with the windows down, sweating, seat foam dust blowing all over us and sticking to our skin, in our eyes. A few weeks later I asked the wife if she wanted to go for a Sunday cruise in the Chrys... “NO CHRYSLER” was the response, before I could even finish the question. I have towels wrapped around the base perimeter of the seat now, to contain the foam until I can get the interior done.
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-10-20 1:05 AM (#572019 - in reply to #520945)
Subject: Re: White 1958 Coronet Lancer



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Very true! I have kids that sit in the back seat and they sometimes get a nice dusting. But I keep it vacuumed out as much as possible. The amount of deposit has decreased quite a bit so I am considering putting carpet in the car now.
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wizard
Posted 2018-10-20 4:04 AM (#572020 - in reply to #571985)
Subject: Re: White 1958 Coronet Lancer



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56D500boy - 2018-10-19 8:30 PM

wizard - 2018-10-19 1:13 PM
Thanks' Dave, the bulbs I had in my car was tubular BA15d R10W (Now replaced with warm White LED's) - now that I made some searches, they come in tubluar or spheric versions.


It's all beginning to make (a little) sense now.

Here is a tubular R5W that I found on the internet when I was looking before. Could NOT buy them locally.

So what are the details (link?) for the LED that you are now running?



An idea might be to slaught a 90 bulb and use the base for to solder in a BA9 red led and fill the gap with epoxy glue - correct base and slim "bulb"
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-10-20 1:28 PM (#572050 - in reply to #520945)
Subject: RE: White 1958 Coronet Lancer



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I figured I would try out a new socket as they may give me more room for the bulb. Turns out I was right, and I can just barely make it work. But I couldn't find a BA15D socket so I converted a BA15S to dual contact using the innards from another dual terminal socket. I had to cut and bend the output section to fit the dual plug into it instead of the single wire, but once done, it seems to work well. This LED array just barely fits in the bezel so you really could use it without a lens if you wanted to, but it wouldn't look the same of course.

One annoying thing is the LED had no documentation at all. The bulb can also be inserted in either direction, but nevertheless, the LED can only work in one direction. Turns out that the red or green sticker is placed on the ground side of the LED - backwards from what I would expect it to indicate. But I didn't blow it out from placing it in the wrong direction, so that's good.



(Socket Mods.jpg)



(LED in Bezel.jpg)



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Attachments Socket Mods.jpg (250KB - 112 downloads)
Attachments LED in Bezel.jpg (156KB - 119 downloads)
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-10-20 1:49 PM (#572052 - in reply to #520945)
Subject: RE: White 1958 Coronet Lancer



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The left fender wasn't straight. It was pushed in about 1.5" just above the wheel. Nevertheless, that didn't stop someone from filling it with bondo and calling it good. So I dug it out and will begin the process of getting it straight. It isn't going to be easy because of all the abuse it has already gone through, but I'll give it a shot.



(Fender Dent.jpg)



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Powerflite
Posted 2018-10-20 8:02 PM (#572083 - in reply to #520945)
Subject: RE: White 1958 Coronet Lancer



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Well, after a lot of effort, I got the LED in place and shining. It makes a nice bright, even glow that is pleasant to look at. You really can't tell from the photo because it makes it look yellow when it is really a nice red color. However...those stinking Chinese un-engineers did it again! They made a 2 contact, single filament bulb that is also grounded to the case. What a bunch of idiots. Why in the world would you want a single filament bulb with 2 contacts that is also case grounded???? Doesn't make sense. Anyway it was all a complete waste of time and effort. I put my tail between my legs and installed a GE90 bulb into it. I probably should have done that to begin with.



(Ebrake LED Go-NoGo.jpg)



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56D500boy
Posted 2018-10-20 8:43 PM (#572085 - in reply to #572083)
Subject: RE: White 1958 Coronet Lancer



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Seemed like you were winning with that LED so I didn't offer another alternative. Didn't work out. Too bad.

Another alternative is a very inexpensive 3/4" LED truck marker light. Has its own red lens. Requires removal of the OE socket so I didn't go that way even though my neighbour gave me one.

Something like this (comes with a two wire pig tail):

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wizard
Posted 2018-10-21 5:10 AM (#572098 - in reply to #520945)
Subject: Re: White 1958 Coronet Lancer



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Nathan, I posted that I had the same problem, kind of easy to open the LED's up and change the ground
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-12-26 2:10 PM (#575842 - in reply to #520945)
Subject: RE: White 1958 Coronet Lancer



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I figured that by the time I got that left front fender close to straight, that it would need to be shrunk and the work involved wouldn't be worth the trouble. So I purchased a new fender from BigM. This fender just has a small dent at the very front of it that I may be able to straighten using a long spoon or blunt chisel. The inner structure near the headlight doesn't look to have been affected by the dent, but nevertheless the headlight bezel is unable to mount there. So the inner structure must have been compromised by it as well. I will try straightening it and see what it looks like afterward, but if it doesn't work out, I will separate the front inner structure from the fender and weld my old inner structure to the new one. Kind of a pain, but you gotta do what you gotta do.



(New 58Coronet Fender Bend.jpg)



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mikes2nd
Posted 2018-12-26 11:20 PM (#575863 - in reply to #520945)
Subject: Re: White 1958 Coronet Lancer


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thats going to be a tough fix and its all got to come apart. start spot weld cutting and good luck
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Powerflite
Posted 2019-01-02 2:31 AM (#576134 - in reply to #520945)
Subject: RE: White 1958 Coronet Lancer



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Yeah, I mostly fixed the majority of the bend in the front of the fender, and banged on the inside metal quite a bit to try and move it out of the way, but no dice. I am no closer to fitting the bezel than I was before I did anything. I don't see any way of making it happen without removing the spot welds and straightening them separately. So that's the next step.

There wasn't any rust holes in my original trunk lid insert for the license plate, but it had a number of rust pits that were very deep on the inside face of it. So after sandblasting it, I welded in those low spots. I had to grind & smooth the weld-thru on the other side afterward. These contoured areas aren't very easy to get to, but with a cutting tool on the end of a small die grinder, I was able to do a good job with it, even in the corner. It feels pretty straight now, and should look good once primed & painted.



(58Coronet License Cavity.jpg)



(58Coronet License Cavity Back.jpg)



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Attachments 58Coronet License Cavity.jpg (229KB - 88 downloads)
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Powerflite
Posted 2019-01-21 9:51 AM (#577162 - in reply to #520945)
Subject: RE: White 1958 Coronet Lancer



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After quite a bit of work, I was able to get the bezel to fit into the insert properly. The center section had been pushed upward when the side was hit inward, but it didn't seem to affect the outer panel at the top for some reason. I have both panels reasonably straight now so I can now start welding up all the tears & extra holes created from cutting them apart. Then paint the seams & inner sections to finally be able to weld them back together again. On the plus side, at least the seams will be painted now instead of bare metal like it was from the factory.



('58 Dodge Fender Insert.jpg)



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Attachments '58 Dodge Fender Insert.jpg (261KB - 84 downloads)
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Powerflite
Posted 2019-04-21 3:25 AM (#581199 - in reply to #520945)
Subject: RE: White 1958 Coronet Lancer



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While I was waiting for the sealer to dry on the New Yorker, I decided to fix the rust on the right rear corner of the Coronet roof. I protected the glass with some damp rags and held them up with strong magnets. I also protected the trim with a couple layers of electrical tape. I cut the patch from a suitable section off a '58 Chevy pickup roof that happened to have the same bend in it. After I opened it up, I cleaned it out and found that the ledge next to the glass needed to be repaired. At first I was very dismayed as I didn't want to have to weld that close to the trim & rubber, but I found that by inserting a plate of copper between the trim that I was able to repair that section quite easily from the inside. I then sprayed down the inside with a rust converter and then a coat of primer/sealer. Once that was mostly dry, I welded it up. The patch came out quite well, but I had to cut out most of the leaded seam, leaving a large indentation to fill. Once the lead was out on the top end, I just welded most of the depression back in with steel. But I still need to remove the rest of the lead on the bottom end and either fill it with steel or something else. I am thinking that welding it in with steel would end up being the easiest and last better than any other option.



(58 Coronet Roof Rust.jpg)



(58 Coronet Roof Patched.jpg)



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Attachments 58 Coronet Roof Rust.jpg (116KB - 49 downloads)
Attachments 58 Coronet Roof Patched.jpg (135KB - 49 downloads)
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Powerflite
Posted 2019-05-13 3:14 AM (#582092 - in reply to #520945)
Subject: RE: White 1958 Coronet Lancer



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While I had my Coronet parked on my sloped driveway, I noticed that the transmission was spewing fluid out of the tail end of it. So I pulled the driveshaft and replaced the rear seal with SKF 15620 which seemed to be the correct application. The seal SKF 15629 from a later Jeep application looks like it would also work, and is a little tighter fit, but is double the price so I used the original one and it looks to have worked well. The old seal was hard as a rock so it is no wonder that it wasn't working any longer. I also took the opportunity to adjust my E-brake and to replace the broken boot on the driveshaft. I used the '81 Dodge Omni version, which I believe is the same as the Dodge Neon CV boot. You have to cut the larger side of it to make it fit properly, but it is a universal type of boot with many possible seating locations so it works out well. After I got it done, I noticed a little slop in the B&T joint. I think that's where the clang in my driveshaft is coming from when I hit the gas hard and the trans suddenly kicks in. Oh well, I'll be more gentle with it as I don't want to replace it now.

I also decided to fix the only obvious rust hole in my rear floor while the driveshaft was out. I fabbed up the repair patch from a piece of my Copper '57 Windsor quarter panel. To make the ribs, I punched a rod between the open jaws of my bench vise. It came out quite well, but maybe a little too deep as the original Dodge ribs are a bit more shallow. So I flattened them out a little after I took this picture. I got it welded in and cleaned up and got the ribs to match up OK, but I noticed that the floor that extends further from there is spotted with rust once I cleaned it up, so I need to extend the patch further out along that rear seat beam. The beam itself has some rust too, but that is a job for another time. If I can get one, I would prefer to just replace the whole beam rather than spend the time patching it up.

Edited by Powerflite 2019-05-13 3:24 AM




(New Boot.jpg)



(58Coronet Rear Floor Patch.jpg)



(58Coronet Rear Floor Rust.jpg)



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Attachments New Boot.jpg (87KB - 41 downloads)
Attachments 58Coronet Rear Floor Patch.jpg (102KB - 43 downloads)
Attachments 58Coronet Rear Floor Rust.jpg (158KB - 41 downloads)
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mikes2nd
Posted 2019-05-13 7:00 AM (#582095 - in reply to #520945)
Subject: Re: White 1958 Coronet Lancer


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Watch out, next stop, you'll be pulling the body off the frame



Edited by mikes2nd 2019-05-13 7:02 AM
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local2Ed
Posted 2019-05-13 8:24 AM (#582097 - in reply to #520945)
Subject: RE: White 1958 Coronet Lancer


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Is that rubber boot the inner or the outer for the 1981 Dodge Omni?


Is that a Dorman Part?
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Powerflite
Posted 2019-05-13 11:04 AM (#582101 - in reply to #520945)
Subject: RE: White 1958 Coronet Lancer



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Very true.
I used the outer boot, Dorman 614-001 from Autozone. The small end seems a little too small at first, but it stretches really easily so it wasn't a problem. Be warned that I had to purchase a new tool like this one to cinch the straps tight.



(61LAtgasYEL._SL1200_.jpg)



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mikes2nd
Posted 2019-05-13 12:42 PM (#582109 - in reply to #520945)
Subject: Re: White 1958 Coronet Lancer


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hmm 3.85 inches...

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=418481&jsn=296

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Lancer Mike
Posted 2019-05-13 11:38 PM (#582129 - in reply to #582109)
Subject: Re: White 1958 Coronet Lancer



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Hi, Nathan:

 

For the parking brake light, you can try these BA15Ds:

https://store.marinebeam.com/compact-ge89-and-ge90-replacement-for-attwood-perko-tw-ge-15/

 

I've had mixed luck getting them to last.  Actually, not good luck!  However, they fit and the work for at least a little while.

 

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Powerflite
Posted 2019-05-21 8:36 PM (#582396 - in reply to #520945)
Subject: Re: White 1958 Coronet Lancer



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Thanks for the tip Mike. I had my motor running for about 5 minutes while I was chasing down a whistle noise coming from the motor. At first, I thought it was the generator bearings that were whining, but oiling them made no difference. Then I tightened the belts, and still no difference. After I figured out that the intake bolts had loosened up, causing a vacuum leak on one side that was making the noise, I shut it off and noticed that my E-brake light lens was super hot. No wonder those things melt like they do. I really don't want to change it often though so maybe I'll wait on them at least until my current bulb dies....
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2019-05-22 12:16 AM (#582401 - in reply to #582396)
Subject: Re: White 1958 Coronet Lancer



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You bet, Nate.  Every time I buy one of those pricey lil' LEDs, I reason that I would rather buy one of those than try to find a new lens / bezel!  I'll let you know if I find a better source for those things.

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Powerflite
Posted 2019-05-22 5:30 PM (#582428 - in reply to #520945)
Subject: RE: White 1958 Coronet Lancer



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Thanks Mike.

Check out this floor mat I pulled from my 4dr '57 New Yorker. Pretty cool design, I really like it. It was completely covered in dried mud so I had to really scrub it with a soft brass brush & dish soap to get it clean. But I guess it was a good thing because the rubber on it is like brand new. Super flexible and nice. I'll use it in the Coronet until I get my 2dr New Yorker going.



(57NY Floormat.jpg)



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Powerflite
Posted 2019-06-05 6:46 PM (#582985 - in reply to #520945)
Subject: Re: White 1958 Coronet Lancer



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I need this car working to attend the American Graffiti show in Modesto and a rockabilly gathering in Gilroy this weekend. My first time for both of them. But 2 weeks ago, my car started running pretty rough, and then much worse and occasionally stalling. Added to that were a couple of whistling sounds coming from the engine.

I checked the intake to see if that's where the sound was coming from, and sure enough, it was loose. Wonder how that could have happened. I am not currently using lock washers on the bolts. Looks like I should add them. That change cancelled half the sound, but the car still ran like crap. I check the carb mount too, but it was tight.

So next I changed the cap & rotor as they were looking pretty sad. That helped, but didn't solve the problem. I also checked the wires, but they were all good.

Then I tested the vacuum advance on it, and sure enough, it had gone bad. I replaced that & re-timed the motor; and it ran much better, but was still running much rougher than it should!

On to the plugs, I pulled one to check it and noticed that it was loose.....but the color on it looked great. Checking the other plugs, most of them were all loose! How did that happen? I tightened them and re-adjusted the idle mixture screws on the carb and now it runs great again, except there is still a slight bit of whistling going on. Weird that all of these problems happened at the same time, or maybe once the vacuum advance died, the extra vibration loosened everything up? Anyway, I'm happy to have it ready to go again for the weekend.
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normsclassicradio
Posted 2019-06-06 3:26 PM (#583031 - in reply to #582985)
Subject: Re: White 1958 Coronet Lancer



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Powerflite - 2019-06-05 4:46 PM

I need this car working to attend the American Graffiti show in Modesto and a rockabilly gathering in Gilroy this weekend. My first time for both of them. But 2 weeks ago, my car started running pretty rough, and then much worse and occasionally stalling. Added to that were a couple of whistling sounds coming from the engine.

I checked the intake to see if that's where the sound was coming from, and sure enough, it was loose. Wonder how that could have happened. I am not currently using lock washers on the bolts. Looks like I should add them. That change cancelled half the sound, but the car still ran like crap. I check the carb mount too, but it was tight.

So next I changed the cap & rotor as they were looking pretty sad. That helped, but didn't solve the problem. I also checked the wires, but they were all good.

Then I tested the vacuum advance on it, and sure enough, it had gone bad. I replaced that & re-timed the motor; and it ran much better, but was still running much rougher than it should!

On to the plugs, I pulled one to check it and noticed that it was loose.....but the color on it looked great. Checking the other plugs, most of them were all loose! How did that happen? I tightened them and re-adjusted the idle mixture screws on the carb and now it runs great again, except there is still a slight bit of whistling going on. Weird that all of these problems happened at the same time, or maybe once the vacuum advance died, the extra vibration loosened everything up? Anyway, I'm happy to have it ready to go again for the weekend.


Just tightening the intake might not be enough. The gasket may be damaged from being loose. It may need replaced.
Norm
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Powerflite
Posted 2019-06-19 3:14 PM (#583725 - in reply to #520945)
Subject: RE: White 1958 Coronet Lancer



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Turns out you are correct, but not for the reason expected.

We drove 250 miles to the the show without issue, but just before we got there, the carb float started sticking and flooded out the engine. After calling it a couple of choice names, I found a nearby rock and smacked it. That seemed to stop the steady flow of fuel and we were able to drive it everywhere we needed to that weekend. But on the way home I noticed that the car would stumble hard if I tried to give it more than part throttle. It was as if it didn't have enough fuel now. But I got over the grapevine (steep mountain grade) to home by going slow in 2nd gear with part throttle. I tried one more time to take the car out on a short trip, and the carb went into full rebellion mode puking gas non-stop. I finally got it back home and vowed to chuck the carb in the waste bin. It was newly rebuilt and worked perfectly for 2 years and then started doing this crap on me. I don't put up with that. My favorite AVS carbs have served me on my other cars non-stop for 15 years plus and weren't ever rebuilt. They always just work. This WCFB is out of here, but I have to drill the manifold and enlarge the openings to make it happen.

So I pulled off the intake manifold to modify it to accept the new carb, and I found that the intake gasket was no longer functioning properly. The heat riser had blown it out on both sides of the motor. This motor only has about 10K miles on it since the last time that I replaced the intake & carb. On the left side, it blew it out downward causing a new exhaust leak that I could audibly here every time I hit the gas. On the right side, it blew the gasket out in the forward direction and was dumping exhaust gas into the #4 cylinder (that's why it is noticeably black in the picture). No wonder the motor wasn't running as well as it used to, well before the distributor & carb issues started. The #4 port was lucky if it was able to burn. Living in S. Cal, I really don't need these heat risers and if my choke gives me trouble, I can always go to an electric one. Making the intake unnecessarily hot also reduces its efficiency. So I decided to plug up those risers. I was originally going to plug them on the intake side, but I realized that wouldn't save my gasket or eliminate the problem. So I plugged them up in the heads.

I made plugs out of 1/8" plate and formed them to the shape of the port. I used nickel wire to weld them to the cast iron. Placing them deep inside the port enabled me to weld them in without affecting the gasket seal surface much. I sill had to use a flat file without a handle to file off a couple of hot balls that stuck to the surface though. Hopefully, I am on my way to making this more reliable with more power. Next up are the intake mods.



(Blocked Riser.JPG)



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Powerflite
Posted 2019-06-21 7:46 PM (#583851 - in reply to #520945)
Subject: RE: White 1958 Coronet Lancer



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View from the intake side. You can really see the exhaust dump into the #4 port from the bottom of the picture. The top shows the break going downward that burned some of the paint on the intake & valley cover.

I drilled & tapped the original intake for an older AFB. I was able to keep the flange parallel by propping the bottom of the intake on my drill press and using a level float to ensure I got it flat. I marked the hole positions using a good, accurate gasket. I was surprised to learn that most of the newer gaskets are cut to the wrong dimensions for the stud locations!! Good to know. I had to use pipe sealing tape on the threads of 2 of the carb studs because the iron is thin over the runners and I had to break through into them. I don't think I can run an AVS on here because of the heavy mods required to the secondary openings, and also, because I don't think the original AVS has the smaller AFB bolt pattern on it, which is what I have to drill the intake to. So I will first try a used AFB from a '58 Imperial, and then go to an NOS carb for a 361 in a '59 Plymouth if the first one doesn't work out. The intake openings don't need to be modified for the '58 Imperial carb, but they do need to be opened up a little for the '59 Plymouth carb because Carter moved the spacing of the butterflies a little further apart on the later carbs. So I modified the intake to be able to work with both of them. You can see that the holes are opened up toward the outside a little in this picture.

Edited by Powerflite 2019-06-22 11:22 AM




(Intake Gasket Failure.JPG)



(Modified 325 4bbl Intake.jpg)



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Powerflite
Posted 2019-06-23 12:35 AM (#583900 - in reply to #520945)
Subject: RE: White 1958 Coronet Lancer



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I got the new carb all set up on the intake and it seems to work quite well. I needed to pull the idle screws out further than usual for some reason, but ran well there. The motor idles really smooth now, just like it used to so fixing the heat riser blowout and having a good carb on there was a major improvement. The first test run went perfectly, but the second run later in the day didn't go well. It started stumbling and stalling on me. I checked it out and the intake was super cold, partially because the electric choke was set backwards making it come on with heat. I think that made the intake colder than it would otherwise have been. But on another run, the intake was still running quite cold, not enough to stall it, but enough to make it not run as smoothly as it should. So apparently a cast iron intake does require some exhaust gas to keep it from getting cold spots. It's weird because the aluminum Hot Heads don't even have the exhaust heat risers in them and I think they do fine; at least I don't remember an issue with them in the short amount of time I drove the New Yorker with them on it. I am wondering if an aluminum intake can live without it due to the increased heat conduction of the aluminum. Anyway, looks like I need to remove the intake again and open those holes up a little to keep this intake from icing up.



(325 Poly with 58Imperial AFB.jpg)



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Powerflite
Posted 2019-06-26 7:33 PM (#584108 - in reply to #520945)
Subject: RE: White 1958 Coronet Lancer



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I pulled the intake and removed the heat plugs. Before I did that, I taped up the intake port holes, removed the valve covers, and loosened the rockers. I did that to close the exhaust valves to prevent metal shavings from going inside the cylinders through the open valves. After, I blew them out really well to get any debri into the exhaust manifold and away from the heads. Since I was removing the valve covers, I decided to upgrade them to the '57 style. The '58 oil fill and breather is constantly leaking oil out of it and messing up my valve cover. It must not have a very good baffle on it. I could have modified the baffle to make it work better, but I prefer the high oil fill location of the '57 engine better anyway. A new sticker for the left valve cover is on its way. The motor runs really well now. I recently removed the electric choke and modified the original one to work with the AFB. I am still adjusting it to get it to pull off at the right time. More test runs are required.



(57 Dodge Oil-Fill.JPG)



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Powerflite
Posted 2019-07-10 10:13 AM (#584651 - in reply to #520945)
Subject: RE: White 1958 Coronet Lancer



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I'm rebuilding the upper control arms now because the bushings in them were shot. I'm just using stock replacement rubber. We'll see how well they hold up. If they don't perform well, I may switch to poly bushings. 1/2" extensions and sockets work really well as tools to press the bushings in and out. I'm using another socket at the bottom of the new bushing so I don't press against the rubber and potentially damage it.



(58Coronet UCA Press.jpg)



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mikes2nd
Posted 2019-07-10 1:05 PM (#584654 - in reply to #520945)
Subject: Re: White 1958 Coronet Lancer


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that is not a fun job, i did all my bushings and ball joints...
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Powerflite
Posted 2019-07-12 9:33 PM (#584744 - in reply to #520945)
Subject: Re: White 1958 Coronet Lancer



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It wasn't too bad, but I had to force the arm back into place. Much harder to install than to remove with good rubber on it. Scuffed my new paint on the arms a little, but no big deal. But since these control arms don't use any adjustment cams, I was able to re-install the arm without having to do another alignment. It's all back together and handles just as well as it used to without touching the adjustment. That's a really nice benefit of this design.
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LD3 Greg
Posted 2019-07-12 11:42 PM (#584746 - in reply to #584744)
Subject: Re: White 1958 Coronet Lancer


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I did all my upper control arm bushings, both Dodge and Chrysler with an old very heavy bench vise. Much more stable than an arbor press and quite easy to be sure you were pressing in the precise direction. The lower control arm bushings were easy to install on my arbor press but to remove the old ones was difficult. Had to push the centers out of them and carefully hack saw the outer cases and peal them out!

Greg
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Powerflite
Posted 2019-07-13 12:14 AM (#584748 - in reply to #520945)
Subject: Re: White 1958 Coronet Lancer



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I really wish I had a big, heavy, old bench vise. The Craftsman one that I have from the '80's isn't quite heavy duty enough for the abuse that I give it. But this 20 ton hydraulic press makes this job very easy. It's just a matter of getting the right setup with it. Once properly set up, it just slides in and out like butter. But, I can't fit the 1/2" extension through a new bushing. I think only a 1/4" extension will fit through it. So I use the press to remove both old bushings, and to install one new one. After that, I had to use my bench vise to install the last one. A lot more work to do that last one, but I didn't see a way to do it with the press without using a 1/2" to 3/8" to 1/4" conversion to make it through the bushing.
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LD3 Greg
Posted 2019-07-13 12:45 AM (#584751 - in reply to #584748)
Subject: Re: White 1958 Coronet Lancer


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Yeah, I wish I was able to pass this stuff on. But, the place is sold!
Back in the late 60's, my wife was working with an antique dealer and going to farm and other auction sales. I gave her a shopping list and a really big bench vice was on it. Well, she bought one and I had to bring the truck to get it home. It had to weigh more than 150 lbs. it had removable jaw inserts. Some time later I had bought the machine shop so I took the old vice to them. They remachined the castings, made new inserts that aligned perfectly and then case hardened them.

With the stuff I had it would be nice to be starting out but instead I had to wind it down! Too old too early! The story we all hear too often!

Greg
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Powerflite
Posted 2019-07-13 11:10 AM (#584762 - in reply to #520945)
Subject: Re: White 1958 Coronet Lancer



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I hear you. I sometimes wonder how much longer I am going to last. But working on cars does give me exercise, so for the time being, it's good for me, healthwise.... except last week when a blob of welding spatter landed on my wedding ring and stuck there. Burned my finger pretty good. Gold transfers heat quite well and I can prove it.
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