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56 Dodge CR D-500 315 hemi - It's Aliiiivve!! (ish)
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56D500boy
Posted 2016-11-11 7:31 PM (#525904)
Subject: 56 Dodge CR D-500 315 hemi - It's Aliiiivve!! (ish)



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Location: Lower Mainland BC
I bought this 56 Custom Royal D500 Light (hemi engine and 12" Chrysler brakes) on Sept. 15th as a known non-running (but engine not seized) car. I had it home for a few days to play with it get some of yuck out (had been sitting for 20-25 years). Then I had it towed to a local shop to try to get it going. Nada. Lots of cranking and the odd firing but basically waste of time and money. They did add an new starter solenoid, plugs and distributor points. They also did an overall assessment of what else was needed, e.g. brakes especially the right front drum and suggested that the No. 1 was a rebuilt carb. Oh yeah and water pump barfed during that starting trial process so new water pump as well.

So between then (Sept. 20th) and today, I have done the following:

1. Removed the carb and had it rebuilt (ended up being restored to OE condition)
2. Removed the fuel tank and had it cleaned and lined
3. Repaired the fuel sender (cork float issue).
4. Bought and installed a NOS water pump (rad had to come out so flushed the rad).
5. Flushed the line between the fuel tank and the engine bay with 12 L of fresh fuel (line might still need replacing - probably with nylon)
6. Installed the renovated fuel tank and repaired fuel sender.
7. Installed NOS 4280 fuel pump
8. Installed the restored carburetor
9. Installed Fram G2 clear plastic fuel filters both before and after the fuel pump
10. Reinstalled the cooling fan with 2 new 13/32" x 56.5" AC Delco segmented fan belts
11. Installed the flushed radiator - bottom hose only first
12. Filled block with coolant and water through thermostat opening in water pump manifold
13. Installed new 180 F thermostat in repaired thermostat housing along with a new "bendy" 1 3/4" x 13.5" rad hose
14. Topped filled radiator with coolant and water and added a new 8 psi Prestone rad cap (with pressure release lever).
15. Added 25L of Chevron (with Techron 94) fuel to gas tank.
16. Primed fuel system in stages with Miti-Vac sucking the fuel to the first filter, then out of the fuel pump, then out of the second filter.

That (16) was this past Tuesday.

Tried starting it. Again nothing. A few hopeful noises but no start. Checked fuel at carb. Accelerator pump shown to work (might have flooded carb??). The starting "attempts" sounded exactly the same as when it was in the shop almost 2 months ago.

Got out my old 12V-powered timing light (last used probably in 1985 - been on electronic timing in VWs and Audis since then). Connected it to the battery and clamped the inductive pick-up over the coil output wire and taped the trigger to ON and pointed the light at the driver. Got in the car and tried again. Light flashed systematically indicating that the points and coil were doing something. Still no firing.

Bought some starting fluid and gave that a shot - literally - still nothing. By this time I am getting a little concerned that I am out of my depth and will have to have the car back into the shop to be sorted.
I walked to the shop yesterday to a) check available shop time next week (in case I needed it) and b) quiz the mechanic (old school enough) on what he thought the issue was. He was scratching his head - you got fuel, you have ignition and there are new plugs and points in the distributor and the timing is set close enough to at least start the engine. I left shaking my head thinking that I was going to have to give the car back to him.

This AM I decided that while I seemed to have some spark, if I can find a new coil I would replace it. Took a photo of a new old stock 1688215 coil (aka Auto-lite CAD-4003) to my local automotive parts shop and was able to get that crossed to a BWD (Borg Warner) E30 (Hecho in Mexico) coil. Installed that. Decided that while I was there, I might as well check the rotor, etc. under the distributor cap.

DING. As I remove the distributor cap, the rotor falls out IN PIECES and down under the intake manifold. WTF!! Well that would do it. I happened to have cap and rotor and points kit that I bought to have so I installed the new rotor (OE 1658535 - which now is a Borg Warner D182) and buttoned up the distributor cap and made sure that the coil wire was well into the top of the distributor cap and the ballast wire was connected, etc.

Got into the car and turned the key. Started RIGHT OFF!! I would like to blame somebody, i.e. the mechanic who worked on my car, but I know the the rotor was probably just brittle and its time was up. I should have checked earlier, i.e. after the first starting attempt failure on Tuesday.

So this engine has NOT been started in a long time. The owner's wife (he's 83 and in a home) said "I think it was started sometime in the 2000's but I don't really remember"

Regardless - a long time. I guess I should be ecstatic but being an engineer of Scottish decent, I am only *just* (barely) cautiously optimistic.

It sounded good, perhaps a little lumpy on the driver's bank, e.g. burnt valve? As it warmed up, it started to burn oil on the left bank (right bank seemed fine). Had "middle" oil pressure on the gauge on fast idle.

I'm going to call it progress. At least I know that it starts and runs now. Next step is brakes (master cylinder, wheel cylinders (all 6) and at least shoes and new drum on the right front).

Here is the culprit rotor and the new coil:





Edited by 56D500boy 2016-11-11 7:43 PM




(OE56DodgeV8Rotor1658535onLeftNewRotorOnRight.jpg)



(BWD_E30ReplacementCoilFor1688215OE56DodgeV8coil.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments OE56DodgeV8Rotor1658535onLeftNewRotorOnRight.jpg (118KB - 141 downloads)
Attachments BWD_E30ReplacementCoilFor1688215OE56DodgeV8coil.jpg (217KB - 142 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2016-11-12 11:05 PM (#526095 - in reply to #525904)
Subject: RE: 56 Dodge CR D-500 315 hemi - It's Aliiiivve!! (ish)



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UPDATE: I started it again this (Sat) AM (started up right way barely a crank and boom it started) and let it run long enough that the electric choke pulled the choke off. Then I got it off the fast idle cam and let it run some more. The left bank was still smoking a bit (right bank is clear) (This is true dual exhaust car). I am planning on doing a compression test (wet/dry) next week to see what the issue might be. I am not to keen on rebuilding the engine at the moment - it sounds good - just a bit of smoke). Then I stopped the engine and went back inside to work on a house project. Two hours later I started the Dodge again. The more times I start the engine and let it run for a bit, the less smoky and less lumpy it is, so I am hopeful that I will be able to avoid major mechanical things until next year. Moving on to brakes next week.

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56D500boy
Posted 2016-11-14 12:07 PM (#526211 - in reply to #526095)
Subject: RE: 56 Dodge CR D-500 315 hemi - It's Aliiiivve!! (ish)



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Additional UPDATE: I took the broken rotor to the shop that did the work in September to show the mechanic (to whom I had spoken on Thursday). He laughed and said "Yup, that would make you crazy trying to figure that out".

Why yes it did. Fortunately, I only really wasted 3 days (Tues, Weds, Thursday) because after I replaced the coil and the rotor on Friday, it started right up.

After I install a missing (and very dangerously missing) clip on the choke connector rod (connects the choke to the fast idle cam), I will be firing the D500 up again today to see how the oil burning situation has improved (or not). I guess I should be lining up at least valve stem seals in case they are old and brittle after a mere 60 years.
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DepsilonD
Posted 2016-11-14 12:09 PM (#526212 - in reply to #525904)
Subject: Re: 56 Dodge CR D-500 315 hemi - It's Aliiiivve!! (ish)



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Nice work and congratulations!
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56D500boy
Posted 2016-11-14 11:36 PM (#526268 - in reply to #526212)
Subject: Re: 56 Dodge CR D-500 315 hemi - It's Aliiiivve!! (ish)



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DepsilonD - 2016-11-14 12:09 PM

Nice work and congratulations!


Thanks. Added that hairpin clip and a 14" chrome pie-plate air cleaner (2" element) and adapter/spacer and started the engine again today. (Needed one pump of the throttle to set the choke and squirt some fuel into the system). Let it run for 15 minutes or so. I got a puff of blue smoke from the left (driver's side) bank exhaust on start-up but it seemed to go away and stay away during the time the engine was running. Slow idle is still a bit fast. Need to adjust that.

I am less than happy with Carter's design of the connection of the choke to the fast idle cam. Little hairpin clips are way too flaky. I've started a new thread looking for a fix for that issue. (Hopefully this has come up before and someone will point me to a well tested solution).

New thread: http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=63719&...

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56D500boy
Posted 2016-11-28 9:38 PM (#527443 - in reply to #526268)
Subject: Re: 56 Dodge CR D-500 315 hemi - It's Aliiiivve!! (ish)



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Location: Lower Mainland BC
Took the car out to a coin-op wand wash a few blocks away today to remove some of the greasy grime on the front suspension (the Next major task) On the way home, the engine was not happy. It had to go up hill. Didn't want throttle at all. Had to baby it up the hill. Trying to avoid back firing. Eventually got on the flats and it was better. Got home and started play with my new toy (KD-435 door handle tool). Then I was checking out the new "Electronic" TriDon flasher that actually activates both the incandescent 1157 (or 1034) bulbs in the front signal lights *AND* the rear LED 1157's (very bright) that I bought at the Monroe swap meet in early October. While I was kneeling down with the drivers door open, I pushed the high beam floor button/switch with my hand. Can you believe it, BUT at that *EXACT* second, the engine stopped. Oh gawd. What did I do?

I got in the car and tried to restart the engine. One fire and then nothing. Just cranking. Oh no.

Open the hood and look at the two clear plastic fuel filters I have (one before the fuel pump and one after). Both were empty. Hmm.... so either the NOS fuel pump isn't sucking/blowing or I am out of gas. (Put 24 liters in on Nov. 8th but the engine has only been running since Nov. 11th and it hasn't gone anywhere. A few daily idling sessions and a few kms on Friday home from the tire/brake shop and then today to the car wash.)

Off to get 25 L (the size of my jerry can) of Chevron 94. Put it in the tank. Prime the system with my Mighty Vac. A few cranks on the key and the engine starts up. Whew!! I didn't fancy leaving the car on the street overnight or changing the fuel pump in the dark and/or wet tomorrow.

Drove the car around the block to test it. Seemed to be stronger than it was. (It was probably starved for fuel). So now I have to decide to install a new 4203 and ditch the NOS one or...??? Maybe electric pumps are indeed the way to go.

PS: That KD-435 does work on the door handles. Works even better when you read the instructions and get the tool between the upholstery protector washer and the handle like it says. (DUH).



Edited by 56D500boy 2016-11-28 10:57 PM
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Mopar1
Posted 2016-11-29 10:34 AM (#527469 - in reply to #525904)
Subject: Re: 56 Dodge CR D-500 315 hemi - It's Aliiiivve!! (ish)



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Location: N.W. Fla.
I din't think 2 fuel filters were a good idea when I read it. Have been lots of problems for a few yrs now with fuel pumps going bad quickly.
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56D500boy
Posted 2016-12-02 11:08 PM (#527768 - in reply to #527469)
Subject: Re: 56 Dodge CR D-500 315 hemi - It's Aliiiivve!! (ish)



Expert 5K+

Posts: 9855
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Location: Lower Mainland BC
UPDATE:

Had the 56 in the local shop this AM to cure a lean backfire under load (it needed real timing now that the engine was running and the "restored" carb needed some additional adjustments/tweaking). It can now get out of its own way and make it up my local hill without drama. Yay.

One thing that came out during this exercise was the new coil that I bought and installed on Nov. 11 was failing to provide consistently good spark, i.e. it was a piece of merde. They installed a new NAPA coil (what the shop uses). I'll keep it for now.

Suggestions for an excellent decent reliable coil that is OE appearing will be welcomed.

SO the PSA is to avoid coils with this labelling:



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60 Imp
Posted 2016-12-05 6:11 AM (#527909 - in reply to #527768)
Subject: Re: 56 Dodge CR D-500 315 hemi - It's Aliiiivve!! (ish)


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Location: North Australia
56D500boy - 2016-12-03 1:08 PM

UPDATE:

Had the 56 in the local shop this AM to cure a lean backfire under load (it needed real timing now that the engine was running and the "restored" carb needed some additional adjustments/tweaking). It can now get out of its own way and make it up my local hill without drama. Yay.

One thing that came out during this exercise was the new coil that I bought and installed on Nov. 11 was failing to provide consistently good spark, i.e. it was a piece of merde. They installed a new NAPA coil (what the shop uses). I'll keep it for now.

Suggestions for an excellent decent reliable coil that is OE appearing will be welcomed.

SO the PSA is to avoid coils with this labelling:





G'day Dave, really enjoying your posts. Please explain PSA. Even google could not help me.
I got this.Prostate-specific antigen (PSA), also known as gamma-seminoprotein or kallikrein-3 (KLK3) and Pharmaceutical Society of Australia


Steve.
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oldhippie
Posted 2016-12-05 8:27 AM (#527918 - in reply to #525904)
Subject: Re: 56 Dodge CR D-500 315 hemi - It's Aliiiivve!! (ish)


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Public Service Announcement... ;-)
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56D500boy
Posted 2016-12-05 8:52 AM (#527922 - in reply to #527918)
Subject: Re: 56 Dodge CR D-500 315 hemi - It's Aliiiivve!! (ish)



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oldhippie - 2016-12-05 8:27 AM

Public Service Announcement... ;-)


Correct. Sorry about that. I know all about the other PSA (test) too (men of a certain age), but I probably should have spelled it out.

Other short cuts that I might use:

IIRC = *IF* I remember correctly

HTH = Hope this helps

DIY = do it yourself (in reference to a documented procedure).

As in, IIRC there is a DIY to fix that. HTH.

Edited by 56D500boy 2016-12-05 9:07 AM
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