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'56 Dodge w/ GM 4L80e OD automatic
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StillOutThere
Posted 2016-11-20 4:50 PM (#526716)
Subject: '56 Dodge w/ GM 4L80e OD automatic



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Location: Under the X in Texas

Working on a '56 Dodge.  It is receiving a '57  325"  KD500 Hemi.   Currently 2 speed Powerflite.  I want to go to a GM  4L80E overdrive automatic for multiplacation away from a light and for low RPM when cruising 80 down Texas interstates.

I'm sure the early Hemi adapter (Weiand?) for alternate transmissions works on the Dodge Hemi as well -- all have same bolt pattern, right?

Has ANYONE put a GM  4L80E  three speed automatic plus has overdrive top, behind one of our Forward Look motors?   

Experience?   Problems?  Concerns?

 

 

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DepsilonD
Posted 2016-11-21 12:38 PM (#526763 - in reply to #526716)
Subject: Re: '56 Dodge w/ GM 4L80e OD automatic



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I think member Powerflite put a GM overdrive trans behind a DeSoto Hemi in his '56 Plymouth. There may be a thread floating around but I will see if I can get him over here to respond.
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57chizler
Posted 2016-11-21 1:24 PM (#526767 - in reply to #526716)
Subject: RE: '56 Dodge w/ GM 4L80e OD automatic



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The 4L80E is a totally electronic transmission, not as easy to retrofit as the 700R4 which would accomplish what you want (low gears with OD). Lots of adapters for the 700R4 that would probably work with the 4L80E.

http://www.hothemiheads.com/transmission_adapters/adapter_chevy_aut...
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Chrispy
Posted 2016-12-20 9:42 AM (#529265 - in reply to #526716)
Subject: Re: '56 Dodge w/ GM 4L80e OD automatic



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Imo the hot ticket is an A518 (46rh) from a 92-95 ram, you can use push buttons with it if you get the cable from a and a and $350 compushift mini to run the lock up and OD. The 4l80e needs a $1.000 compushift 2 to control it. That's great but expensive. With the 518 run 3.73s or 3.90s or even 4.1, that will get you moving! The .69 OD will take care of the highway.

Edited by Chrispy 2016-12-20 9:45 AM
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StillOutThere
Posted 2016-12-20 1:30 PM (#529284 - in reply to #529265)
Subject: Re: '56 Dodge w/ GM 4L80e OD automatic



2000100010010025
Location: Under the X in Texas

Chris,

Thanks for posting in re. the A518 trans for my ’56 Dodge build.   Have you done this combo yourself?   What engine and what car /chassis?   Very helpful.   Haven’t done any mechanics yet but body is coming along.

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StillOutThere
Posted 2016-12-20 2:23 PM (#529296 - in reply to #529265)
Subject: Re: '56 Dodge w/ GM 4L80e OD automatic



2000100010010025
Location: Under the X in Texas

Chrispy - 2016-12-20 8:42 AM Imo the hot ticket is an A518 (46rh) from a 92-95 ram, you can use push buttons with it if you get the cable from a and a and $350 compushift mini to run the lock up and OD.SNIP

 

This A&A?   http://www.aandatrans.com/ 

Got a part # you have used?

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57chizler
Posted 2016-12-20 3:28 PM (#529306 - in reply to #529296)
Subject: Re: '56 Dodge w/ GM 4L80e OD automatic



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This is the conversion Chrispy is referring to:

http://www.aandatrans.com/Products/Push-Button-Conversion-Cable-Set...

Of course, Park will be inoperative.
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StillOutThere
Posted 2016-12-20 5:04 PM (#529320 - in reply to #526716)
Subject: Re: '56 Dodge w/ GM 4L80e OD automatic



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Location: Under the X in Texas
Thanks Chizler !
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Chrispy
Posted 2016-12-20 5:51 PM (#529328 - in reply to #526716)
Subject: Re: '56 Dodge w/ GM 4L80e OD automatic



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I have not run it yet, but it's going behind the built 392 I'm doing for our 57 desoto firesweep. You'll need to adapt the trans mount to the crossmember but outside of that it should be pretty straight forward. You also need the adapter plate (wayfarer sells them). The big thing to get, in my opinion, is the compu-shift mini. Every 518 swap i've seen uses vacuum switches to control every thing and it has no flexiblity or has you flip the OD and lockup converter on with a manual switch. That sounds annoying as hell to me, so i'm going to use the Mini to control my setup. Fully automated lock up and over drive functionality. The kit they sell has everything except a throttle position sensor which they also sell.

If you source a junkyard trans to rebuild, remember 92-95 ram 2WD with a 360 or possibly a 318 is your target, this has hydraulic shifting and a lock up converter. The A500 will not work! the starter sits higher and hits the block on early hemis. 96 up is the 46RE which is electronic shift controls and won't work easily for your application. The 518 has the same pan shape as a 727 but deeper, and the lock up version can be identified by the 3 pin plug on the trans, the non lock up is 2 pin. The a500 has the 904 pan, like i said, avoid this. If the starter cleared it would be great but it doesn't. You can take the converter from the junkyard trans, or get a new lockup 2500 (or less) stall from TCI. Take the starter from the truck if its in good shape as well, its the lightweight mini starter and you get to lose a few pounds with it. If the truck doesn't have a good one, grab it from any other early 90's v-8 ram or dakota, its the same.

The 518 is 727 based so you can do a performance rebuild easily. Cope racing transmissions sells a nice rebuild kit for them, this will easily hold your 325. I would also recommend the transgo TF-2 shift kit for the trans.

https://www.hgmelectronics.com/products-compushift-controllers/csm-c...

https://www.hgmelectronics.com/products-throttle-position-sensors/ac...

Here is the install manual, a good read for how you would set it up.

https://hgmelectronics1.atlassian.net/wiki/display/CMM/COMPUSHIFT...

Cope racing trans link to their 518 rebuild kit.
https://www.coperacingtrans.com/product_info.php?cPath=97_56_135&pro...

Trans go TF-2 for the 518
https://www.coperacingtrans.com/product_info.php?cPath=97_46&product...



Edited by Chrispy 2016-12-20 6:24 PM
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Powerflite
Posted 2017-01-05 2:48 AM (#530466 - in reply to #529328)
Subject: Re: '56 Dodge w/ GM 4L80e OD automatic



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This is the thread where I put a 700R4 into my '56 Savoy.

http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=56159&...

The good news for you is that the '56 tunnel has plenty of space for you to put whatever transmission you would want in there without having to cut your floor. You may have to move your crossmember back like I did, depending on which trans you chose to use. You can adapt the push buttons to the Chevy trans as well as the Chrysler trans, but doing it on the Chrysler trans is definitely easier. Also, with the 700R4, you would only get R, N, OverDrive & Drive with a 2speed shifter, whereas the Chrysler trans you would get R, N, OD, D, 2. This is because the Chrysler trans uses pressure switches to automatically switch to overdrive so the shifter doesn't have to do it. If you get ahold of a 3speed shifter from a truck, you could get to all the gears on the Chrysler trans.

I didn't end up converting my trans to use the push buttons though because I found that I really enjoyed having park on it, as well as being able to reach all the low gears. And I am not willing to give up park to use the buttons. So I ended up shifting the trans with a cable under the dash. I am now thinking that a '62-'65 trans with '66-up internals and a gear vendors overdrive may be better because you could get everything with it; overdrive, park, & push buttons. But it is definitely a more expensive solution.
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StillOutThere
Posted 2017-01-05 9:27 AM (#530472 - in reply to #526716)
Subject: Re: '56 Dodge w/ GM 4L80e OD automatic



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Location: Under the X in Texas
Thank you. We'll be starting on this soon and may have more detail questions!
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jboymechanic
Posted 2017-01-05 10:50 AM (#530487 - in reply to #526716)
Subject: Re: '56 Dodge w/ GM 4L80e OD automatic



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I was hoping to eventually adapt a 46RH behind the 354 in my '56 Imperial. My imperial does have an original TF trans, but I'd like to move to 3.73 gears and add overdrive for better all around performance. My current final drive ratio is 3.23. 3.73 would obviously improve acceleration of my 4,600 lb boat, and the overdrive would give 3.73 x 0.69 = 2.57 final drive ratio, again a big improvement on the highway. I have the trans and the adapter, but was unaware of these components linked above. Thank you for posting this information, now I can continue to collect the parts and prepare for the eventual swap.
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Chrispy
Posted 2017-01-18 3:29 PM (#531681 - in reply to #526716)
Subject: Re: '56 Dodge w/ GM 4L80e OD automatic



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no problem, 2.57 is still too low for me in OD, so i'm going 3.91 or 4.10 in the rear.. 2.70-3.0ish in OD is good for me.
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Powerflite
Posted 2017-01-18 4:28 PM (#531687 - in reply to #531681)
Subject: Re: '56 Dodge w/ GM 4L80e OD automatic



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These motors have a lot of torque compared to most, so I actually like to have around 2.3 final drive ratio if I can get it. I am running 3.23 gears in my '70 Satellite and '56 Savoy with 700R4 transmissions (.7 OD ratio). That equates to 2.26:1 final ratio coupled with reasonably large tires. It is cruising on the freeway that you care most about fuel economy, and this overdrive ratio gives you a great improvement in economy as well as in noise level. With the wind whistling through the cracks in the rubber, the last thing I want is to hear is the motor winding out too on long trips. And truthfully, no one cruises at 60mph anymore. 70-80mph is more the norm, so the rpms can get pretty high. I tried 3.55, and it is OK, but you will consume more fuel, and hear the motor more. I tried 2.94 gears too, but they didn't work for me because my stock motors ('70 318 wedge & '55 331 hemi) couldn't handle the pull at lower 4th gear speeds (like 55-60 mph). But a long ram motor could probably go to even higher gear ratios with all the low end torque that they create. Of course, the 700R4 has a lower 1st gear than the Chrysler trans, so I get an equivalent of 4.0 gears from a stop compared to what someone with a Chrysler trans would have. But that stoplight acceleration doesn't even come into consideration when choosing the gears I want to run because it is not much of an issue with an automatic transmission in a street car.

Of course, if you have a motor that uses a high stall converter, you will be forced to run a lower gear ratio to make it work at your cruise speed, but a typical mild performance converter should have no problem with 3.23's.

Edit: By the way, the stock rear gear ratios in the '89 Camaro that the trans came from is 2.73-3.45. The car that I pulled the trans from had a 3.08 ratio, so I am sitting at the high end of their availability spectrum. I can't imagine running this with a 2.73 rear ratio though! That's really lugging it around.

Edited by Powerflite 2017-01-18 11:15 PM
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58coupe
Posted 2017-01-18 7:40 PM (#531705 - in reply to #526716)
Subject: Re: '56 Dodge w/ GM 4L80e OD automatic



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Nathan, what kind of traitor are you running a cheevy trans. in your Mopars! (just kidding). I would prefer my Mopars to be all Mopar but I guess the problem is getting the Chrysler autos to work right. I owned a 91 Dodge 1 ton with a diesel and OD auto and the vehicle computer failed, they are no longer made and not available aftermarket. I even sent it to a company that supposedly repairs your computer and paid $200 but to no avail. The only way to get the OD to work was to put a toggle switch in for manual operation, what a hassle.
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StillOutThere
Posted 2017-01-18 8:30 PM (#531712 - in reply to #526716)
Subject: Re: '56 Dodge w/ GM 4L80e OD automatic



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Location: Under the X in Texas
I very much appreciate all the food for thought and discussion going on here. Thanks all y'all.
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