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PILE OF LEAD
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60crossram
Posted 2017-01-07 5:58 PM (#530727)
Subject: PILE OF LEAD



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I can't believe the big pieces of lead that I got out of the quarter panels left from the factory lead workers.  Has anyone else dug out large amounts from your cars too ?  I have never tried lead work. I hear it is k kind of tricky to do. 





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GregCon
Posted 2017-01-07 6:01 PM (#530728 - in reply to #530727)
Subject: Re: PILE OF LEAD



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I have watched it be done...it's actually better than Bondo in the sense that it files in a more linear manner. But, it's also harder in the sense that you can re-heat the lead you already laid down and make it worse than when you started.

But of course the big drawback is the weight and exposure to lead...

With the quality of plastic fillers out now there's not a lot of reason to use lead.
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Ray
Posted 2017-01-07 6:44 PM (#530730 - in reply to #530727)
Subject: RE: PILE OF LEAD


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I had no idea that this amount of lead was used. Can you tell us what part of quarter panels the big chunks came from?

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60crossram
Posted 2017-01-07 7:53 PM (#530739 - in reply to #530727)
Subject: Re: PILE OF LEAD



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I got them out of a 61 Chrysler Newport Wagon below the tail light area.
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roadkillontheweb
Posted 2017-01-07 10:02 PM (#530759 - in reply to #530727)
Subject: Re: PILE OF LEAD



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Tim Bowers of Stellar Restorations doing lead work on the bottom of the dash from my UTE. Evidently a mouse made it's home in there and the urine rotted the metal in the area.
https://youtu.be/ooVlqDGNpBU
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miquelonbrad
Posted 2017-01-08 1:25 AM (#530770 - in reply to #530727)
Subject: Re: PILE OF LEAD



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I used to have a '58 Caddy parts car, that was the victim of an interior fire. When it burned, the heat melted out all the lead joints on the panel seams. Very cool to see all the areas where lead was used in the rear quarter/trunk/fin area.
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GregCon
Posted 2017-01-08 8:28 AM (#530782 - in reply to #530770)
Subject: Re: PILE OF LEAD



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And of course we've all heard how the sun can heat the lead enough that it starts to melt and get lumpy...
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wizard
Posted 2017-01-08 8:46 AM (#530784 - in reply to #530727)
Subject: Re: PILE OF LEAD



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This amuses me somewhat

The lead as it's referred to is a mixture of lead 71,5 %, tin 27 % and antimon 1,5 %.
The lead is used because it's cheaper than tin, and the antimon is added for to make the "lead" hard.

The melting point is 212º Celcius (413.6 degrees Fahrenheit) (so I think that the sun could heat up the lead to the melting point is a tall tale)

The "lead" is always a better filler then bondo since the lead doesn't constrict.

We call the "lead" for "body-tin" in Sweden
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2017-01-08 1:58 PM (#530814 - in reply to #530784)
Subject: Re: PILE OF LEAD



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Shred it real fine and put it in yout tank for leaded gas !
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jboymechanic
Posted 2017-01-08 2:38 PM (#530821 - in reply to #530727)
Subject: Re: PILE OF LEAD



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I learned lead body work and used in in areas on my 1956 Imperial. It is HARD to do, but I was happy with the results and it should be very durable.

Is lead completely out of new car production? I knew manufacturers were still using it to seal up bodies for a long time, but obviously there are health risks.
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springsweptwing
Posted 2017-01-08 2:39 PM (#530822 - in reply to #530727)
Subject: Re: PILE OF LEAD



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Lumpy lead is usually caused by corrosion of the joint underneath, especially on the rear filler panel below rear windscreen , as condensation in the trunk usually causes the seam to rust from the underside?
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springsweptwing
Posted 2017-01-08 2:46 PM (#530824 - in reply to #530821)
Subject: Re: PILE OF LEAD



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jboymechanic - 2017-01-08 7:38 P

Is lead completely out of new car production? I knew manufacturers were still using it to seal up bodies for a long time, but obviously there are health risks.


I think most modern cars now are made so any panels that do have a visible joint are covered by a plastic trim, although I have seen brazed joints on roof panels, even spot welds are on way out and laser welds and glue are used now.
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wizard
Posted 2017-01-08 3:42 PM (#530829 - in reply to #530822)
Subject: Re: PILE OF LEAD



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springsweptwing - 2017-01-08 8:39 PM

Lumpy lead is usually caused by corrosion of the joint underneath, especially on the rear filler panel below rear windscreen , as condensation in the trunk usually causes the seam to rust from the underside?


Before the lead is applyed, the body surface must be treated with solder paste - that is practically an acid - if the rear side of the repair is exposed for water or moist, the remains of acid can really boil up some rust.

The basic rule is that the rear side of a repair must be sealed properly - that's just as important with bondo.
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big m
Posted 2017-01-09 4:10 PM (#530929 - in reply to #530727)
Subject: Re: PILE OF LEAD



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I save these chunks of lead when I find them, and put them in an old crucible with lead filings and floor sweepings after doing a bodywork job. When the pot is heated up, any foreign matter, even steel bits will float to the top and form slag, as the lead is much denser than anything else you're likely to run into. Then I pour my own solder [lead] sticks for use on my next bodywork project. Like Wizard stated, it must be a 30% tin, 70% lead allow to have the capabilities necessary for body work, melting old wheel weights will get you nowhere if you're trying to use them for body solder.

Eastwood used to sell solder by the stick, but now it's some other metal alloy, and sucks to use, in my opinion.

---John
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57burb
Posted 2017-01-09 4:34 PM (#530931 - in reply to #530929)
Subject: Re: PILE OF LEAD



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I had a surprising amount of lead filler underneath each side mirror on my '57 Chrysler. There was a big dent underneath both of them, but the dents were different sizes and shapes. Very weird.
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jboymechanic
Posted 2017-01-09 11:15 PM (#530975 - in reply to #530727)
Subject: Re: PILE OF LEAD



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My fried that taught me lead body work went around to different body shops in the 1980s and bought up all their lead body filler. He has a huge stack of lead bars in the back corner of his garage.
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LD3 Greg
Posted 2017-01-09 11:36 PM (#530980 - in reply to #530975)
Subject: Re: PILE OF LEAD


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I bought lots of sticks of "body solder" from Eastwood in the old days. They used to sell what they called "tinning butter". A mixture of flux (acid) and solder. Fantastic stuff!!

Sandblast your welded seam to absolutely clean it. Paint on the tinning butter and heat with a torch. The entire area turned silver! Then flow enough "lead solder" all along the seam to absolutely water proof the seam. I was never good enough to use lead (solder) as a filler, especially on vertical surfaces. Once I had the seam water proofed, I would just use polyester filler to get the contour I wanted.

Greg
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LD3 Greg
Posted 2017-01-09 11:56 PM (#530981 - in reply to #530980)
Subject: Re: PILE OF LEAD


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As I recall, the areas for 57/58 Mopars where the most factory lead was applied was the large, long joint between the q-panel and rear deck panel. PITA to deal with because you had to remove all traces of lead before you could re weld that seam!

I bought a whole kit of tools/stuff from Eastwood to try and learn how to do lead solder body work. As I recall, there were wooden spatulas for contouring the hot lead and they needed to be lubricated with tallow. By the time I got to try this the mice in my shop had discovered the tallow and eaten it all!! All I had left was a chewed tin foil bowl full of mouse turds!!

Greg
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big m
Posted 2017-01-10 11:47 AM (#531003 - in reply to #530727)
Subject: Re: PILE OF LEAD



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I keep all my body tools in a homebuilt tool box from the '30's. It's getting very hard to find much of a selection of these tools nowadays, so I do not lend any of them out. I use either ATF or light motor oil on the paddles, it works every bit as well as tallow.

---John



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wizard
Posted 2017-01-10 12:56 PM (#531013 - in reply to #530727)
Subject: Re: PILE OF LEAD



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Wow, that's a treasure chest John! I use motor oil as well - I didn't know that tallow was used in the old days.

I leared the lead-work from old school mechanics when I was Young. They showed me even a lead spray gun that worked with a heated bowl and compressed air - totally dangerous but they said that it was possible to apply only a thin layer of lead with the lead spray gun.
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RUSTORICHES
Posted 2017-01-20 12:46 PM (#531871 - in reply to #530727)
Subject: Re: PILE OF LEAD


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The only lead experience i have currently is "Lead Foot" and have several tickets documenting this experience" Great to see the old tool collection John just this morning I was reminiscing about the lost art in craftsmanship. Modern technology is fine and has made our lives easier to say the least but the skill in pressing a button can be taught and learned by 2 year old and "up" Skill is a life time of experience and it seems to be our biggest waste in racing for modern technology "through it away and buy a new one" adage.Convenience has overpowered learning experience. As you've described the iron making basic process here black smithing, welding to robotic welding and super bond glue formulas. This is part of my heritage, as a youngster I grew up near a scrap buying point along the rail road and I was always dragging some stuff home to make something imaginary out what I found. I eventually became a journeyman welder then a "B" Pressure and on and on with welding technology Thats one of the interesting things on this site seeing someone doing his first weld right up to a finished project it gives me as well as everyone on this site confidence and that practise does make prefect Great that you shared some more of your experience.
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mikes2nd
Posted 2017-01-20 1:09 PM (#531873 - in reply to #530727)
Subject: Re: PILE OF LEAD


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rofl spraying lead... your kids will be lucky not to have 3 heads.
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RUSTORICHES
Posted 2017-01-20 10:50 PM (#531915 - in reply to #530727)
Subject: Re: PILE OF LEAD


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THIS CAN BE FOUND ON EBAY TO UPGRADE YOUR WELDING SKILLS……….LOL



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