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Pre-FL Functional air scoop
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-04-19 8:13 PM (#561932 - in reply to #561907)
Subject: Re: Pre-FL Functional air scoop



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57burb - 2018-04-19 4:14 PM

It's starting to look like something! Thanks for the (detailed ) updates.


Thanks. It's going to look pretty okay after the next and hopefully last coat of resin and a then some sanding and polishing.

But I need to get going on the modified air cleaner to make it all work.

I am in the process of selling one of my cars (93 Audi S4 sedan) and I am getting a bit distracted.

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56D500boy
Posted 2018-05-11 11:11 PM (#563204 - in reply to #561932)
Subject: Re: Pre-FL Functional air scoop



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56D500boy - 2018-04-19 8:13 PM
I am in the process of selling one of my cars (93 Audi S4 sedan) and I am getting a bit distracted.
:)


Okay. My 350 hp 1993 Audi S4 quattro sedan (probably capable of 160 mph because they could do 150 mph with the factory 227 hp)that I had for 2 months short of 20 years and put a lot of blood sweat and $$$ into sold. Bye.

Back to the 56 Dodge.

Been working on the carpet install which has meant working on the C and B pillar covers so I can hold the new windlace in place. Today while the new paint on the B-pillar covers was drying, I started to play with the air scoop.

Dug into the foam core and extracted about 85% of it. Then I trial fitted it again into the space between the rad support and the right grill bar. Fits better than I remembered. Plus a piece of 4" PVC fits perfectly into the remaining 1/2" of the 4" coupling that I left in the scoop. I need to cut that piece of 4" PVC shorter and paint it. I also need to totally remove the foam core (somehow), add a final coat of resin on the outside and finalize the 2 or 3 options that I have for an anti-squirrel grill in the front of the scoop.

Photos from today:





Edited by 56D500boy 2018-05-11 11:15 PM




(Mark7ScoopFromAboveMay11_2018.jpg)



(Mark7ScoopFromSideMay11_2018.jpg)



(Mark7ScoopFromFrontMay11_2018.jpg)



(Mark7ScoopFromEngineBayMay11_2018.jpg)



(Mark7ScoopFromEngineBayWith4inchPVCNippleMay11_2018.jpg)



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Attachments Mark7ScoopFromAboveMay11_2018.jpg (145KB - 109 downloads)
Attachments Mark7ScoopFromSideMay11_2018.jpg (172KB - 110 downloads)
Attachments Mark7ScoopFromFrontMay11_2018.jpg (170KB - 104 downloads)
Attachments Mark7ScoopFromEngineBayMay11_2018.jpg (103KB - 101 downloads)
Attachments Mark7ScoopFromEngineBayWith4inchPVCNippleMay11_2018.jpg (99KB - 103 downloads)
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-05-12 1:24 AM (#563215 - in reply to #532535)
Subject: Re: Pre-FL Functional air scoop



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Now you need to paint the inside of it black to make it less visible from outside the car.
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-05-12 1:39 AM (#563217 - in reply to #563215)
Subject: Re: Pre-FL Functional air scoop



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Powerflite - 2018-05-12 1:24 AM

Now you need to paint the inside of it black to make it less visible from outside the car.


Absolutely. That was always part of "the Plan". Flat black yet. However, I can't do that until I get rid of all the white polystyrene beads. I've only used a 1" putty knife so far but will be getting out the big guns in the next few days. There is a possibility of Acetone being used.

We'll see.

I will post a photo when it is done, i.e. another coat of resin on the carbon fibre and maybe on the inside too.



Edited by 56D500boy 2018-05-12 1:40 AM
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-05-26 1:45 PM (#564041 - in reply to #563217)
Subject: Re: Pre-FL Functional air scoop



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Previously I had found this advertisement from the August 1956 issue of Car Life:



Yesterday I bought a May 1956 Car Life magazine and there was an article about how to achieve 25 mpg and it featured the same cold air induction system. I see they definitely had a flapper/butterfly in the system.





(CarLifeMay56_CoolAirInduction_small.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments CarLifeMay56_CoolAirInduction_small.jpg (243KB - 104 downloads)
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1960fury
Posted 2018-05-27 7:42 AM (#564064 - in reply to #532535)
Subject: Re: Pre-FL Functional air scoop



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Some of the old ads in the magazine are rubbish, this is not. Thanks for sharing.
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-06-06 4:10 PM (#564677 - in reply to #564064)
Subject: Re: Pre-FL Functional air scoop



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After recently finishing (98%) the conversion of an OE oil bath air cleaner to paper, I got back to this project. I've painted the modified Golden Lion filter with black crinkle paint (still drying - photos to come) and cleaning out the inside of the air scoop.

When I did the scoop plug, I should have covered the form with clear packing tape because the fiberglass resin did not stick to it and the resulting surface was shiny and smooth. But I didn't. So I have to deal with the resin getting in to the dry wall mud that I had applied in some areas as well as into the beaded part of the foam in other places. It was a bit of nightmare.

In the end after trying a bunch of mechanical means, scrapers, wire wheels, brushes, etc. what worked was my 20 year old Dremel and a die-grinder bit on medium speed, followed by wet sanding in our laundry sink with 220 grit paper. Then I dried it and painted it with a semi-gloss black paint. Not sure if I will add a coat of resin over that or not. Probably not. Outside, yes. Inside, no.

I tried the painted scoop in its location behind the right grill bar and it is very much hidden/stealth. Perfect.

Needs some final sanding/trimming on the inlet edge. I've added some JB Weld at the outlet end where the white PVC ring is "attached" to the fiberglass shell.

Some photos from today:



Edited by 56D500boy 2018-06-06 4:13 PM




(AirScoopAfterTrimmingTheInteriorWithADremelDieGrinder_1.jpg)



(AirScoopAfterTrimmingTheInteriorWithADremelDieGrinder_2.jpg)



(AirScoopAfterTrimmingTheInteriorWithADremelDieGrinder_AndWetSandingWith220Grit.jpg)



(AirScoopAfterTrimmingTheInteriorWithADremelDieGrinder_AndWetSandingWith220GritAndSemiGlossPaint.jpg)



(AirScoopInPlaceWithSemiGlossBlackInteriorPaint.jpg)



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Attachments AirScoopAfterTrimmingTheInteriorWithADremelDieGrinder_1.jpg (147KB - 110 downloads)
Attachments AirScoopAfterTrimmingTheInteriorWithADremelDieGrinder_2.jpg (185KB - 103 downloads)
Attachments AirScoopAfterTrimmingTheInteriorWithADremelDieGrinder_AndWetSandingWith220Grit.jpg (178KB - 92 downloads)
Attachments AirScoopAfterTrimmingTheInteriorWithADremelDieGrinder_AndWetSandingWith220GritAndSemiGlossPaint.jpg (205KB - 97 downloads)
Attachments AirScoopInPlaceWithSemiGlossBlackInteriorPaint.jpg (181KB - 92 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-06-06 9:17 PM (#564690 - in reply to #564677)
Subject: Re: Pre-FL Functional air scoop



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Applied the "last" coat of resin on the outside of the air scoop this afternoon. While it was drying/curing, I cut the white PVC coupler down to a size that works as a spacer that leaves me about 3/8" between the bottom of the air cleaner and the top of the carburetor choke.

Trialled the modified Golden Lion air cleaner on the carb and discovered that I need a longer carb/air cleaner rod. Off to RONA (now owned by Lowes) to buy a stick of 1/4" x 20 thread ready rod. While I was there, I also picked up a 4" galvanized heating duct damper to put somewhere between the scoop and the air cleaner and a length of flexible dryer duct (the good kind).

When I got back, I cut an appropriate length of ready rod and mounted the air cleaner. Then I tried the flexible duct over the air cleaner snorkel. Oops. Needs a spacer/adapter. No problem. I had a black ABS reducer that was perfect size to fit over the snorkel and inside the flexi duct. (Luck or skill ?? LOL. LUCK). So I cut an adapter ring and gave it a light sanding. It will need more to fully fit over the snorkel. Fine for now.

I put the adapter ring on the end of the snorkel and tried the duct. Hmm....Snorkel is a bit long. *IF* I want to include the damper in series between the scoop and the air cleaner, the snorkel is going to have to be about 3" or more shorter so the bend in the flexiduct isn't crazy. I can figure that out tomorrow. For today, I pushed the flexiduct further over the snorkel to see if there was some improvement. Some but it's going to need a hack saw on the snorkel.

Some photos from today:



Edited by 56D500boy 2018-06-06 9:22 PM




(LastCoatOfResinDryingOnAirScoop.jpg)



(ModifiedGoldenLionAirCleanerOn315Hemi.jpg)



(ModifiedGoldenLionAirCleanerOn315Hemi_WithABSAirHoseAdapterRing.jpg)



(ModifiedGoldenLionAirCleanerOn315Hemi_WithABSAirHoseAdapterRingAnd4InchFlexiDuct.jpg)



(ModifiedGoldenLionAirCleanerOn315Hemi_WithABSAirHoseAdapterRingAnd4InchFlexiDuct_PushedOnFurther.jpg)



(Galvanized4InchFlowDamper_1.jpg)



(Galvanized4InchFlowDamper_2.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments LastCoatOfResinDryingOnAirScoop.jpg (222KB - 105 downloads)
Attachments ModifiedGoldenLionAirCleanerOn315Hemi.jpg (167KB - 152 downloads)
Attachments ModifiedGoldenLionAirCleanerOn315Hemi_WithABSAirHoseAdapterRing.jpg (171KB - 100 downloads)
Attachments ModifiedGoldenLionAirCleanerOn315Hemi_WithABSAirHoseAdapterRingAnd4InchFlexiDuct.jpg (154KB - 102 downloads)
Attachments ModifiedGoldenLionAirCleanerOn315Hemi_WithABSAirHoseAdapterRingAnd4InchFlexiDuct_PushedOnFurther.jpg (161KB - 97 downloads)
Attachments Galvanized4InchFlowDamper_1.jpg (123KB - 109 downloads)
Attachments Galvanized4InchFlowDamper_2.jpg (130KB - 110 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-06-06 11:21 PM (#564695 - in reply to #564690)
Subject: Re: Pre-FL Functional air scoop



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After reviewing my photos, I find that 4" ducting looks ridiculous. Time to rethink and work with 3" ducting instead. Somehow.

AFTER reviewing my original plans, I see that I *WAS* going to use 3" ducting. Not sure when I let it morph to 4". No biggy. Back to Plan A = 3 inch.



Edited by 56D500boy 2018-06-07 2:07 AM
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-06-07 8:13 PM (#564762 - in reply to #564695)
Subject: Re: Pre-FL Functional air scoop



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56D500boy - 2018-06-06 11:21 PM
After reviewing my photos, I find that 4" ducting looks ridiculous. Time to rethink and work with 3" ducting instead. Somehow.
AFTER reviewing my original plans, I see that I *WAS* going to use 3" ducting. Not sure when I let it morph to 4". No biggy. Back to Plan A = 3 inch.


3" was the way to go.

I stopped at RONA (now owned by Lowes) and went through their plumbing and heating section looking for bits that I could cobble together to use 3" flexible hose. Turned out better than I expected.

As per the photo(s) below, I bought 3" semi-rigid aluminum ducting, a 3" galvanized round connector union, a 3" PVC to ABS adapter (SOC x SP) and a 4" x 3" PVC to ABS reducing adapter. The 3" galvanized union fits inside the flexible ducting and the flexible ducting fits inside the air cleaner snorkel. The only game was to cut down the PVC and ABS bits so they were shorted (long enough to get glued together but not much more). I still need to work on that 3" PVC to ABS adapter that the 3" galvanized union slips into. It could be shorter.

IF I am going to have a damper I will have to have it *IN* the snorkel. I need to work on that more.

For now, here are some photos of how it went together today (NOTE: 1. Yes, I need to replace my hood to rad support gasket 2. The white PVC spool piece that you can see in the last two photos will get painted semi-gloss or flat black and it will disappear):





(AirScoopTo3inchHoseTransitionComponents.jpg)



(AirScoopTo3inchHoseTransitionComponentsCutDown.jpg)



(AirScoopInPlaceShowingTheWhitePVCSpoolPiece_1.jpg)



(AirScoopInPlaceShowingTheWhitePVCSpoolPiece_2.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments AirScoopTo3inchHoseTransitionComponents.jpg (245KB - 105 downloads)
Attachments AirScoopTo3inchHoseTransitionComponentsCutDown.jpg (162KB - 116 downloads)
Attachments AirScoopInPlaceShowingTheWhitePVCSpoolPiece_1.jpg (172KB - 98 downloads)
Attachments AirScoopInPlaceShowingTheWhitePVCSpoolPiece_2.jpg (120KB - 99 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2019-07-21 12:59 PM (#585051 - in reply to #564762)
Subject: Re: Pre-FL Functional air scoop



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Ran the converted OE air cleaner(with stacked filters) all winter and it was fine. On Friday, I sanded and recoated the carbon fibre "Ram Air" air scoop. Yesterday, after going for a nice run in the Dodge, I removed the converted air cleaner and re-installed the "Ram Air" air filter system. I was surprised: 1) the ram air was quieter (??) - the opposite of what I thought before, and 2) the engine didn't seem to run as well (??). I might have to install a flow limiting baffle in the ram air system after all.

From this:



Back to this (old photo) (except with a much smoother/shinier scoop):



Edited by 56D500boy 2019-07-21 1:38 PM
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mikes2nd
Posted 2019-07-21 2:26 PM (#585054 - in reply to #532535)
Subject: Re: Pre-FL Functional air scoop


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you are probably running lean, that carb isn't able to handle all the air your throwing at it, you can richen it up and it should help, your going to eat more gas but you should then start to see performance gains.

Don't run lean man... You'll destroy it. Your bringing in alot of air i would expect. Pull the pipe how does the car run? with just the air cleaner open to the engine bay?

https://www.enginelabs.com/engine-tech/engine/high-speed-engine-tuni...

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1960fury
Posted 2019-07-21 3:02 PM (#585055 - in reply to #585054)
Subject: Re: Pre-FL Functional air scoop



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mikes2nd - 2019-07-21 2:26 PM

you are probably running lean, that carb isn't able to handle all the air your throwing at it, you can richen it up and it should help, your going to eat more gas



Physically not possible. Cooler air makes an engine run more efficient, that is the performance gain, it is free, after you adjusted the idle/jetting for the cooler air (leaner mixture). At idle (?), if really a lean condition is the cause (?), once you adjusted the mixture it will idle faster/smoother and you can back off the curb idle screw. Same for jetting, you need less throttle opening for the same amount of power.
I installed several cold/ram air systems, all engines responded with a smoother idle in hot weather and yes, the mixture needs to be adjusted, especially for driving in cold weather.
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mikes2nd
Posted 2019-07-21 9:04 PM (#585065 - in reply to #532535)
Subject: Re: Pre-FL Functional air scoop


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well it would only happen at higher speeds,of course cooler is better but its absolutely possible. even the article says so and it makes sense...

your saying he is running richer? he didn't say if it was an idle issue or when he is at high speed or accelerating. well need to know if its all the time or when its happening.



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1960fury
Posted 2019-07-22 7:47 AM (#585077 - in reply to #585065)
Subject: Re: Pre-FL Functional air scoop



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mikes2nd - 2019-07-21 9:04 PM

well it would only happen at higher speeds,of course cooler is better but its absolutely possible. even the article says so and it makes sense...

your saying he is running richer? he didn't say if it was an idle issue or when he is at high speed or accelerating. well need to know if its all the time or when its happening.



What would happen only at higher speeds? With cooler, denser air an engine is always running more efficient. Where did you read I was saying he is running richer? No, colder air will of course lean out the mixture.
Yes, he didn't say if it is the idle or main circuit, that is why I added the question mark, but a lean condition can of course happen at any engine speed. I was just stating physical facts.

Edited by 1960fury 2019-07-22 3:46 PM
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