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56 Dodge Custom Royal 4 dr Sedan Window Channel Size
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56D500boy
Posted 2017-05-16 4:35 PM (#540173)
Subject: 56 Dodge Custom Royal 4 dr Sedan Window Channel Size



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I was at a local old car parts store today (KMS Tools - Old Car Division) buying new threaded spring clips for my rear fender stainless trim. While I was there, I wondered the aisles and discovered that they have "universal" window channel in 8 foot sticks (and some "cat's wisker" stuff too). This is very good news for me. Much easier to buy locally than to ship from the US. The problem is, at the moment, I don't know what size I need.

I saw 5/8" x 1/2" and 5/8" x 7/32", etc. Not sure what else they have for sizes. I thought I better find out what size I actually need.

Any BTDT's?? Needs to be a sedan. I presume 2 or 4dr sedans, 55 or 56 Dodge or Plymouth would be the same??





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56D500boy
Posted 2017-05-16 4:46 PM (#540174 - in reply to #540173)
Subject: RE: 56 Dodge Custom Royal 4 dr Sedan Window Channel Size



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Naturally, it is probably more complicated than I imagined with fixed sections as shown below. At least Dodge and Plymouth sedans seem to be the same PNs. I just need the size.



Edited by 56D500boy 2017-05-16 4:49 PM




(WindowChannelSections_small.jpg)



(WindowChannelSectionsPNs.jpg)



(WindowChannels_Annotated_small.jpg)



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Attachments WindowChannelSections_small.jpg (128KB - 31 downloads)
Attachments WindowChannelSectionsPNs.jpg (215KB - 38 downloads)
Attachments WindowChannels_Annotated_small.jpg (150KB - 33 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2017-05-16 9:13 PM (#540199 - in reply to #540174)
Subject: RE: 56 Dodge Custom Royal 4 dr Sedan Window Channel Size



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In the absence of a response my channel size question, I forged on. I removed the inner upper door frame on the driver's door (inner door panel has been off for months) and a few screws. I note that one piece of cat's whisker is attached to this inner frame. The other piece of cat's whisker is attached to the door but I don't think I can remove/replace it without removing the glass.

I now have Run 23-42-16 out of the car. It is quite wide and has chrome edging. I doubt that I will find anything with chrome locally. I will settle for channel for finding channel that fits in the grove. I have the lower metal channel from the rear of the run in an Evaporust bath overnight (some minor surface rust) and will remove and paint it tomorrow.

I tried to remove the front Run 23-42-13 at the front edge of the door glass by first loosening two screws that hold the vent window in and one additional screw at the bottom of the run. Nothing. I might have to remove that 23-64-232 bracket (the upper pivot for the vent window) first. I presume that if I can tilt the top of 23-42-13 into the vacant vent window space I will be able to remove it. (fingers crossed).

At some point, I think I might be stymied by the window glass. I know that I would have to slip the pin out of the track at the bottom of the window (at one end or the other of the track) but I think that the only way to do this will be to loosen and/or remove the 23-39-5 Manual window regulator and slide the pin out of the window bottom track by moving the regulator. Not looking forward to that can of worms.

Comments and/or suggestions welcomed. (Please don't make me beg).

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56D500boy
Posted 2017-05-17 5:59 PM (#540268 - in reply to #540199)
Subject: RE: 56 Dodge Custom Royal 4 dr Sedan Window Channel Size



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I found some NOS 1593 110 channel locally and went to view it. It wasn't the same as what I have (no stainless steel edges). Price was going to be $45 for 4 ft so I passed and went to KMS Tools CARS division and bought two aftermarket no-name 8 ft sticks of bendable channel that *might* work. They were $93 total, taxes in, so worth a try.

While I was with the NOS guy (Ron W.), I asked him about removing the window from the regulator. He showed me how the window is held to the pin at the end of regulator arm by a clip. I just need to confirm that and figure out how to blindly remove the clip.

I had hoped that somebody had done this before and would offer BTDT suggestions and I wouldn't have to forge new ground, but I guess the majority of folks either haven't dealt with this issue *OR* the have lovely 2 dr hardtops that do not have the same set-up as my 4 dr sedan.

Oh well.

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56D500boy
Posted 2017-05-17 8:05 PM (#540280 - in reply to #540268)
Subject: RE: 56 Dodge Custom Royal 4 dr Sedan Window Channel Size



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56D500boy - 2017-05-17 5:59 PM
While I was with the NOS guy (Ron W.), I asked him about removing the window from the regulator. He showed me how the window is held to the pin at the end of regulator arm by a clip. I just need to confirm that and figure out how to blindly remove the clip.


Okay, there isn't a clip, more of a spring to keep the tension on the pin in the window bracket track. I was going to remove the regulator when I discovered that if I tilted the window I could get the pin close to the hole in the bracket (actually the other way around, the hole in the bracket close to the pin). With a couple of tries, I tilted the window enough inside the door that I could press the pin through the big hole in the track bracket. Then it was just a matter of wiggling the window up and tilting it a bit to get it out of the door. I have the window (bracket) sitting in some Evapo-rust.

With the window out, I figured that the vent window and the main window front track (on the chrome divider) would just pop out. Close but no cigars. There is a small screw on the leading slanted edge of the door that screws into the vent window frame (NOT shown in the diagram - but obvious once I looked (Duh)). Once I removed that and the two other screws that held the vent window and window track into the door, it all came out as one unit.

The main window track is quite a bit smaller than the rear and top track and it was riveted into the chrome frame so some "creativity" will be required.

I found out that the cat's whisker that was attached to the door was held on by five small spring clips. I managed to recover 4 of the 5 (not sure where the 5th went).

At least I made progress, and managed to not break anything (oh no, I'm doomed now )





Edited by 56D500boy 2017-05-17 8:10 PM
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DepsilonD
Posted 2017-05-18 11:43 AM (#540325 - in reply to #540173)
Subject: Re: 56 Dodge Custom Royal 4 dr Sedan Window Channel Size



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I appreciate your efforts on this Dave. Sorry I can't offer anything to the conversation, but your efforts will help me when I take on the window channels in my 4-door '56 Plymouth.
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56D500boy
Posted 2017-05-18 12:10 PM (#540330 - in reply to #540325)
Subject: Re: 56 Dodge Custom Royal 4 dr Sedan Window Channel Size



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DepsilonD - 2017-05-18 11:43 AM I appreciate your efforts on this Dave. Sorry I can't offer anything to the conversation, but your efforts will help me when I take on the window channels in my 4-door '56 Plymouth.


Ya. Seems like the 55-56s are lost children with no home and very few friends.

I could make the channels that I bought yesterday work but before I give up and modify them, I am heading off to the "Old Car Centre" about 20 miles away. They deal almost exclusively in Chevy and Ford stuff but I phoned them and they have 8 ft sticks of channel that I can look at and maybe find one that is closer than what I have.

Whatever I get, I will always be able to get proper stuff later (maybe). This is just trying to get the driver's door done so I can move on to the next can of worms.

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Powerflite
Posted 2017-05-18 1:13 PM (#540335 - in reply to #540173)
Subject: Re: 56 Dodge Custom Royal 4 dr Sedan Window Channel Size



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I just saw this thread. Sometimes it is faster to just forge ahead than to wait for an answer. I can't offer much help because I haven't done it yet either. My right side door handle stopped working from the outside so I will need to tear into it sometime in the near future; and when I do, I would like to replace all the weatherstripping in there too.
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56D500boy
Posted 2017-05-18 9:02 PM (#540365 - in reply to #540330)
Subject: Re: 56 Dodge Custom Royal 4 dr Sedan Window Channel Size



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56D500boy - 2017-05-18 12:10 PM I could make the channels that I bought yesterday work but before I give up and modify them, I am heading off to the "Old Car Centre" about 20 miles away. They deal almost exclusively in Chevy and Ford stuff but I phoned them and they have 8 ft sticks of channel that I can look at and maybe find one that is closer than what I have. :)


Turns out the Old (Chevy and Ford) Car Centre had very good stuff and cheaper than what I paid yesterday.

I got one stick of the wider channel with the chrome (stainless) edges for the rear vertical and upper horizontal piece (one piece, bent) . It was called ZRC-528 and was $40 for the 8 ft section. Measured the old one and it was a tad over 48" so the one stick will do two front doors for that piece.

The other stick is a Y-614 "Rigid Vent Channel" and it fits inside the vertical frame that extends down from the rear of the vent window. The length looks to be 29" so 8 ft might do three doors. $32 for the 8ft stick. It has stainless edges

I got two kinds of cat's whisker when I returned the first channels I got. One of the whiskers has stainless edges so I will like use it. I think $25 for the 8ft stick. Should do two doors at least.

I am cleaning and painting everything that isn't new.

PSA: Inner window frames are made of pressed and folded sheet metal and have sharp edges. Ask my pinky finger if it has stopped bleeding yet.



Edited by 56D500boy 2017-05-18 10:43 PM
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westaus29
Posted 2017-05-19 11:42 AM (#540405 - in reply to #540173)
Subject: RE: 56 Dodge Custom Royal 4 dr Sedan Window Channel Size


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Location: Mandurah, Western Australia
Sounds like you are making good progress. I saw your post last night but too late to answer. Will add what I have found here as may need it when come to back doors.

I have just been thru the same exercise with my 1955 Plymouth wagon front doors. The job started when I decided to replace the front door rubbers to prevent wet seat and floor, and found a line of rust under the seals, which looked to be original, held on by wire clips. I tried sand-blasting in place but standing on your head is not a good way to work, anyway it revealed more holes. So off came the doors for welding repairs. Seemed like a good time to find out why the driver's window had collapsed on me a couple of times, so off with the door lining and out with the shop manual.

I went thru the same process as you to remove the inside trim and vent window. Once you find and remove all the screws it lifts out ok. There was not much material left in the rear of the frame to support the vertical sliding glass.
The next step is to remove the vertical sliding glass. Raise the window until the lifting lever protrudes above the sill, supporting the glass and tilting it forward and inwards. Slide the lower channel to one end and disengage from the lifting lever. It comes off quite easily and goes back the same way. Once the glass is out you can remove the glass run channel. Mine had obviously been worked on at some stage, had no chrome. It was glued in all the way and very hard to remove or work out its original size. The recess in the door frame seemed way wider than the rubber/felt channel. There is a removable metal guide channel at the lower rear of the door which holds the glass channel in place.

I soon saw the reason why the window was misbehaving. The glass lower channel was half rusted away, the rubber was flapping, and the glass was loose. Also the window lowering stop was missing.
I had no luck with local parts suppliers who mostly support local models plus some GM and Ford, and for some reason they don't quote sizes, so off to the internet, see list at end. Now that I know all the sizes I could probably get some of channels locally but not much cheaper, as about $10/ft.

For the vertical glass lower metal channels, I drilled out the spot welds and rewelded the sliders onto the new channels. The new rubber fit great and the glass installed painlessly.

For the vertical glass channel, I cleaned up the door frame and found a clip welded at the bottom inside rear, which I straightened. The removable metal guide channel was in good shape, just needed cleaning, straightening, painting, then slid it into place held by clips top and bottom. The new glass channel then fit into place neatly without need to glue it, but I put a small recessed screw at the top end just behind the vent frame to keep it in place. Initially I thought it was too narrow as it fit loosely in the door frame but when all was assembled with the inner trim in place it looked great and fit securely.

I drilled out rivets holding the old rigid channel at rear of the vent frame and glued new channel in with black silicone sealant.

The window sweeper on inside trim was fairly simple to install, reusing old metal staples. Have since found you can get new ss staples from Rubber the Right Way. The sweeper on the outer door sill is a pain because you can't get access to the inside, so have to use push-in clips. The ones I got from Andy Bernbaum were useless so I mostly used rusty ones I recovered from the original.

This the parts I came up with:

Vertical sliding glass lower channel : Rubber the Right Way $24.71
part #10-045X door window lower sash channel 5/8" x 9/16" 28-60 GM (metal channel) 4 ft cut in half for shipping
Almost identical to original, not quite as deep
www.rubbertherightway.com

Vertical sliding glass lower channel rubber: Langs Old Car Parts $6.50
Part #8020 Door glass to metal channel rubber seal Year: 1924-1927 6 ft (enough for 4 windows)
Excellent fit for channel, glass pushed straight in, no adhesive required
https://www.modeltford.com/item/8020.aspx

Vent frame rear channel: Rubber the Right Way $29.04
Part #10-154X rigid window channel 3/8" x 1/2" 1941-50 Packard (pair) 4 ft cut to 30" for shipping
Excellent fit, felt lined rigid metal
(Note: they also have sweeper staples in ss)

Vertical sliding glass run channel: Andy Bernbaum $36
Part #A-361 window channel 5/8" x 1/2" 8 ft black(coiled, which helped for shipping, no chrome, poorly made in that side trim tape was folded and cemented wrongly, but managed to tease it out and reglue several bad areas so that it came up fine. Maybe they send the rejects to Aus? )
Ended up fitting well.

Vertical sliding glass sweeper: Andy Bernbaum $33
Part #A-360 window sweeper 9/16" 8 ft (coiled, which helped for shipping)

Vertical sliding glass sweeper clips:
Part #A-362A window sweep clip (near useless, used old wire staples on inner trim and reclaimed most of old clips on outer door sill)

Langs communication and service great, shipped in 2 days

Rubber the Right Way communication and service great, shipped in 5 days

Andy Bernbaum, messy to deal with as took several emails and faxes and over two weeks to order, order not confirmed, shipping not confirmed, just arrived. Quality was average. However available lengths and shipping coiled are in favour. I originally ordered chrome channel but AB said quality was poor and they could not supply it. I am guessing the Plymouth channel was not originally chrome as my old sweepers were original black and not chrome.

Note: Steele Rubber sell steel sash channel 5/8" x 9/16" but poor communications.
Also supply rigid window channel for vent frame 3/8" x 1/2" but only 24" too short.

I must also note that I am a great supporter of USPS .. not! They have stung me way more than the cost of the parts.


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DepsilonD
Posted 2017-05-19 12:11 PM (#540407 - in reply to #540173)
Subject: Re: 56 Dodge Custom Royal 4 dr Sedan Window Channel Size



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Thanks for the extensive and very informative post westaus29!!!!!
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56D500boy
Posted 2017-05-19 7:52 PM (#540425 - in reply to #540407)
Subject: Re: 56 Dodge Custom Royal 4 dr Sedan Window Channel Size



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DepsilonD - 2017-05-19 12:11 PM
Thanks for the extensive and very informative post westaus29!!!!!


Ditto (thanks very much westaus29):)
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StillOutThere
Posted 2017-05-20 8:29 PM (#540469 - in reply to #540173)
Subject: Re: 56 Dodge Custom Royal 4 dr Sedan Window Channel Size



2000500100100100252525
Location: Under the X in Texas
https://www.metrommp.com/?f=product_list_for_vehicle&search_year=195...

Click on the part numbers to get the car applications list. They are only listing Coronet and Custom but we know the rest.
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westaus29
Posted 2017-05-22 6:41 AM (#540577 - in reply to #540469)
Subject: Re: 56 Dodge Custom Royal 4 dr Sedan Window Channel Size


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Location: Mandurah, Western Australia
Thanks StillOutThere
Its good to have some alternatives, especially a supplier that gives good details on the web. That is a good site with lots of info.

I am pretty sure my lowly Plymouth didnt have chrome edging on the window channels, as my window sweepers or whiskers look very original and have no chrome. Both inner and outer sweepers have an upswept curve at one end that you cant duplicate with a modern replacement part, but I installed the new ones straight and they look fine.
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jerrybev
Posted 2017-06-29 5:29 AM (#543104 - in reply to #540173)
Subject: RE: 56 Dodge Custom Royal 4 dr Sedan Window Channel Size


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I have a 56 dodge glass for passenger side rear door if you need it.
I am in Winston Salem, N.Carolina
jerry whitfield
336-749-5922
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56D500boy
Posted 2017-07-13 11:53 PM (#544129 - in reply to #540425)
Subject: Re: 56 Dodge Custom Royal 4 dr Sedan Window Channel Size



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I was going to ask for hints as to how to reassemble my driver's door with the glass out, the vent window frame and main window channel out and the upper and rear channel out. I didn't ask and I didn't read anything about it. I just tried and discovered. What I discovered was:

1. I needed to get the cat's whisker strip attached to the door before I could permanently install the glass, etc. (which I did using 1/8" x 1/8" rivets, there were some issues and I will have to redo it tomorrow).

2. I needed to get the glass back in before any of the channels. I inserted the glass into the door and turned the crank until I could get the guide pin into the slot in the bottom frame of the window.

3. Once the glass was in, I could install the vent window frame (and new 23-42-13 channel attached to the frame with rivets and trim glue (NOTE: I drilled relief pockets in the back of the new metal channel so the existing rivet heads in the vent window frame channel didn't push the new fuzzy channel out and away from the vent window frame.) With the window in the door and part way down, I fed the vent window frame with the new fuzzy channel *OVER* the front edge of the window glass, at the same time manipulating the frame into place (4 screws (3 small and one large) had to line up). Took some doing. You have to be patient and not force anything (in case you crack the glass).

4. Once the front channel was screwed in place, I fed the pre-bent (over the glass) 23-42-16 one-piece upper and rear channel over the rear edge of the window glass and down (and then up into the grove). I would use rivets to hold that channel in place but my pop rivet tool's nose is too wide (and I have to pop rivet from the fuzzy side). I will either look for a narrow head for the riveter or use small flat head screws. Not sure which. Will deal with that tomorrow (probably pull it all apart again to redo the cat's whisker that somehow moved while I was pop-riveting it into place on the door).



Edited by 56D500boy 2017-07-14 12:39 PM
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-05-15 4:25 PM (#563463 - in reply to #544129)
Subject: Re: 56 Dodge Custom Royal 4 dr Sedan Window Channel Size



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I've got a read door open at the moment and have measured the 23-42-16 flexible channel and it is less than 4 ft. This means one 8ft stick of the flexi-fuzzy stainless channel will do a front door and a rear door. Good news! (I have 4 ft left from the driver's door and bought another 8 ft stick when I had the chance recently). Good to go.







(56Dodge4drRightRearDoor_FlexibleWindowChannelLength.jpg)



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Attachments 56Dodge4drRightRearDoor_FlexibleWindowChannelLength.jpg (165KB - 4 downloads)
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