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Anybody recognize these strange 315 hemi valve lash adjusters?Jump to page : 1 Now viewing page 1 [50 messages per page] | View previous thread :: View next thread |
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| 56D500boy |
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Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 11184 ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Location: Lower Mainland BC | This is what I am staring at now that I have both valve covers off, stripped and repainted. Apparently the adjusters are hollow and use friction to stay in place (the nut is part of the adjuster and NOT the lock nut). Edited by 56D500boy 2017-06-03 10:44 AM (DForgies565D500EngineValveTrain_RightBank1-3-5-7_1.jpg) (DForgies565D500EngineValveTrain_RightBank1-3-5-7_2.jpg) (DForgies565D500EngineValveTrain_RightBank1-3-5-7_3.jpg) Attachments ---------------- DForgies565D500EngineValveTrain_RightBank1-3-5-7_1.jpg (167KB - 758 downloads) DForgies565D500EngineValveTrain_RightBank1-3-5-7_2.jpg (112KB - 600 downloads) DForgies565D500EngineValveTrain_RightBank1-3-5-7_3.jpg (146KB - 592 downloads) | ||
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| 57chizler |
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Expert Posts: 3867 ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Location: NorCal | The adjuster threads are an interference fit so they need no jam nuts. Common on lots of Mopar engines, not sure if they're original in an early Hemi. | ||
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| 56D500boy |
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Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 11184 ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Location: Lower Mainland BC | 57chizler - 2017-06-05 3:05 PM The adjuster threads are an interference fit so they need no jam nuts. Common on lots of Mopar engines, not sure if they're original in an early Hemi. Okay. thanks. Seems strange but... Just bought an 1.25" Deep socket so I will now be able to turn the engine by hand (with the socket and my torque wrench/rachet) and start doing the adjustments (checking). | ||
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| 56D500boy |
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Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 11184 ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Location: Lower Mainland BC | 56D500boy - 2017-06-05 3:32 PM 57chizler - 2017-06-05 3:05 PM The adjuster threads are an interference fit so they need no jam nuts. Common on lots of Mopar engines, not sure if they're original in an early Hemi. Okay. thanks. Seems strange but... Just bought an 1.25" Deep socket so I will now be able to turn the engine by hand (with the socket and my torque wrench/rachet) and start doing the adjustments (checking). :) Okay, over the weekend I went around the valve adjustment world, 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2 (actually 1-8-4 the Friday day and 3-6-5-7 the Saturday day (yesterday) and then a check on 5 and 2 Sunday) and then I started back at 1 (to check it) and then back to 8 which I had left because there was a weird issue with No. 8 intake. I think I've got it more or less okay. Exhaust is fine. But tere is a strange issue with the No. 8 intake. It seems "spongy". I took the adjuster screw noted in my first photos right out to check it but then I felt the top of the push rod and it felt like the top cone was going to fall off. I know I bought some new adjusters from a FL forum member but I can't find them on a quick search (DUH). Regardless, I am going to remove the No. 8 intake adjuster again and, while holding the cone on the push rod, use a Q-tip to clean out the inside of the cone before re-installing the adjuster. Then I will check things on 8 again and move on to the final check on No. 3. (The rest I am comfortable with now) None of them were bad. Just a little out. It is amazing how little a rotation of the adjusting bolt makes on the clearance. It has been suggested that I might want to take the push rod out and inspect it. I presume that if I remove the adjuster screw I will be able to slide the rocker arm out of the way (against the spring) enough to pull out the push rod. The top of the rod seems to have a cone that spins but that doesn't show in the parts diagram. Edited by 56D500boy 2017-06-12 2:02 PM (EarlyHemiValveTrainPartsDiagram.jpg) Attachments ---------------- EarlyHemiValveTrainPartsDiagram.jpg (230KB - 562 downloads) | ||
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| 56D500boy |
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Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 11184 ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Location: Lower Mainland BC | 56D500boy - 2017-06-12 2:00 PM It has been suggested that I might want to take the push rod out and inspect it. I presume that if I remove the adjuster screw I will be able to slide the rocker arm out of the way (against the spring) enough to pull out the push rod. The top of the rod seems to have a cone that spins but that doesn't show in the parts diagram. Okay. Removed the D500 No. 8 intake adjuster. Slid the rocker arm towards the spring (towards the back of the engine) and then carefully removed the intake push rod. Discovered that the top "cone" is a separate piece that just sits in the inside of the hollow push rod. Found the NOS D500 adjuster screws that Dave S. sold me (thanks Dave) and was ready to put everything back. I put the push rod in first, without the cone/cup and immediately felt the source of the sponginess. Seems like there is a spring down there. Doesn't make any sense so I am very confused and quit for the night. I felt no other sponginess when I adjusted the other 15 valves and there is nothing in the parts diagram that makes sense. The only thought is when the engine was rebuilt (long ago) somebody slipped a hydraulic lifter in there by mistake. I really have no idea. Hope somebody does. Here are some of the relevant photos: Edited by 56D500boy 2017-06-13 1:57 AM (EarlyHemiCrossSection_small.jpg) (56D500HemiPushRodAndAdjuster_1.jpg) (56D500HemiPushRodAndAdjuster_2.jpg) (56D500HemiPushRodAndAdjuster_3.jpg) (56D500HemiPushRodAndAdjuster_4.jpg) Attachments ---------------- EarlyHemiCrossSection_small.jpg (159KB - 549 downloads) 56D500HemiPushRodAndAdjuster_1.jpg (142KB - 554 downloads) 56D500HemiPushRodAndAdjuster_2.jpg (153KB - 578 downloads) 56D500HemiPushRodAndAdjuster_3.jpg (118KB - 555 downloads) 56D500HemiPushRodAndAdjuster_4.jpg (121KB - 599 downloads) | ||
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| 56D500boy |
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Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 11184 ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Location: Lower Mainland BC | I just got off the phone with the son of the local early hemi expert (Mike Frey, son of Norm Frey) and described the spongy/springy feeling at the end of the No. 8 intake push rod. I suggested that I suspect that there is a hydraulic lifter down there and he didn't disagree. He said that it shouldn't be there and I said I know. We agreed that I need to adjust that one based on the hydraulic lifter specs, i.e. effectively zero lash. Fingers crossed. I want to get this thing back together and running again. | ||
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| 57chizler |
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Expert Posts: 3867 ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Location: NorCal | When using adjustable rockers with hydraulic lifters the usual drill is to tighten the adjuster to zero backlash and then tighten it another 1/4-1/2 turn....this preloads the lifter. | ||
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| 56D500boy |
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Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 11184 ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Location: Lower Mainland BC | 57chizler - 2017-06-13 1:43 PM When using adjustable rockers with hydraulic lifters the usual drill is to tighten the adjuster to zero backlash and then tighten it another 1/4-1/2 turn....this preloads the lifter. I didn't mention it but Mike F. did say 1/4" turn after zero. So based on your additional comments (thanks), that is what I will do. Sure hope that there really is a hydraulic lifter down there (for unknown but must be stupid reasons). | ||
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| Powerflite |
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Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 10547 ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Location: So. Cal | On all of my adjustable push rods on Chrysler hemis, that cone is press-fit into the end of the push rod. It looks like your push rod is mushroomed out, which isn't good. And the fact that it is loose is also not good. I would bet that someone didn't want to replace the pushrod, so to "fix" it, they installed the hydraulic lifter in there to cushion the hit and make it run that way. If it were mine, I would call Hot Heads or Kanter and try to get a replacement push rod to stick in there. If you really punch it and your valve floats, that end piece could end up coming out, and you could have real problems. But if you just cruise around in it, you may never experience an issue. | ||
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| wayfarer |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 940 ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Location: Peoples Republic of Oregon | ...if it were mine, I'd be pulling the top off to have a look-see at all of the related parts. Something isn't 'right' and it sounds as though you do not have any detailed info on the engine details. The pushrod is obviously damaged and hydraulic lifters rarely display 'sponginess'. | ||
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| 56D500boy |
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Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 11184 ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Location: Lower Mainland BC | Powerflite - 2017-06-13 2:58 PM On all of my adjustable push rods on Chrysler hemis, that cone is press-fit into the end of the push rod. It looks like your push rod is mushroomed out, which isn't good. And the fact that it is loose is also not good. I would bet that someone didn't want to replace the pushrod, so to "fix" it, they installed the hydraulic lifter in there to cushion the hit and make it run that way. If it were mine, I would call Hot Heads or Kanter and try to get a replacement push rod to stick in there. If you really punch it and your valve floats, that end piece could end up coming out, and you could have real problems. But if you just cruise around in it, you may never experience an issue. wayfarer - 2017-06-14 1:34 PM ...if it were mine, I'd be pulling the top off to have a look-see at all of the related parts. Something isn't 'right' and it sounds as though you do not have any detailed info on the engine details. The pushrod is obviously damaged and hydraulic lifters rarely display 'sponginess'. I appreciate both your comments and will, at some point pull the intake manifold on this likely rebuilt engine (of unknown origin, but blue not silver, but well over 25 years ago when it was parked at 119,426 miles after an oil change in 1992 at 119,250 miles). But that will be a winter project. The engine was running fine before I removed the valve covers to strip and paint them, which turned into a "While I am there, I might as well (MAW) check/adjust the valves). There was nothing to make me suspect that there was one non-solid lifter in the game. I am not sure if the push rod was "obviously damaged". The cone did spin the hollow pushrod and would come out so yes, it wasn't correct. As a short term fix, I RED Loctited the cone into the tube yesterday and reinstalled the pushrod with a new old stock adjuster late yesterday afternoon. I am just going out to the garage now to see if I can come to an adjustment that I will be happy with (for now). I will need to source the 315 D500 hemi-specific push rod(s) and solid lifter sometime before the fall. I am reluctant to go after the issue now because I know that at least one of the intake bolts will snap off, opening up yet another (and BIG) can of worms. No thanks. Not right now. It's summer and I want to drive the car again. I won't be hammering on it, just crusing. Probably limit the RPMs to under 4500 max. (I bought a tacometer for this reason). Edited by 56D500boy 2017-06-14 2:02 PM | ||
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| wayfarer |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 940 ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Location: Peoples Republic of Oregon | Pushrods and lifters are easy but you really need to know what you have and not just throw parts at it. Rebuilds are expensive but physical damage can result in even more so. Do it right-do it once. | ||
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| 56D500boy |
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Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 11184 ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Location: Lower Mainland BC | wayfarer - 2017-06-16 11:30 AM Pushrods and lifters are easy but you really need to know what you have and not just throw parts at it. Rebuilds are expensive but physical damage can result in even more so. Do it right-do it once. Thanks I hear you but...What I am reading is you are setting me up for an "I told you so" if I don't immediately tear down the engine and do a complete rebuild it to blue-print tolerances and there is a failure. I would have appreciated some advice dealing with my situation that doesn't include such measures, i.e. how to adjust that one odd lifter. Time will tell. Engine was running fine (enough) before I removed the valve covers to paint them. | ||
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| wayfarer |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 940 ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Location: Peoples Republic of Oregon | Nah, you mis-read my intention. I really don't care what you do with your engine so no "I told you so" from me. Although I am in the business of building EarlyHemi engines and selling parts, I am just as likely to try and talk a potential customer out of planned purchase if it appears that he is wasting money and/or really needs something entirely different. These engines, as well as most v-8s from the 1950's, are expensive to buy or rebuild so I am of the belief that if you do it once and do it right you will be money ahead even if it is bloody expensive to do in the first place. There are very few engines that will provide a long service life with bandaids. Sometimes surgery is warranted. And, if you use a box of bandaids just to get a car ready to sell.......well, another subject I suppose. In your case, you have an odd pile-o-parts that, in my humble opinion, needs proper repair because it appears that the previous owner used a box of bandaids. Do you even know, absolutely, that the rest of the lifters are of the solid/mechanical variety? I will say again that functioning hydraulic lifters do not produce any 'sponginess' as you have described so if the rest are of the same style then adventure awaits. Same deal with the pushrods; they are designed for a pressed fit and often soldered but you have one that is obviously damaged. ...and red Loctite will not fix it. So, are the other 15 in similar condition? Having adjustable rockers only means that you have adjustable rockers. We routinely use custom rockers on hydraulic cams for pre-load adjustment so that, by itself, is not an indication of a mechanical camshaft. What ever you do, shortcuts included, I do wish you luck. | ||
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| 56D500boy |
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Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 11184 ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Location: Lower Mainland BC | 56D500boy - 2017-06-14 2:02 PM I am not sure if the push rod was "obviously damaged". The cone did spin the hollow pushrod and would come out so yes, it wasn't correct. As a short term fix, I RED Loctited the cone into the tube yesterday and reinstalled the pushrod with a new old stock adjuster late yesterday afternoon. I am just going out to the garage now to see if I can come to an adjustment that I will be happy with (for now). I will need to source the 315 D500 hemi-specific push rod(s) and solid lifter sometime before the fall. I am reluctant to go after the issue now because I know that at least one of the intake bolts will snap off, opening up yet another (and BIG) can of worms. No thanks. Not right now. It's summer and I want to drive the car again. I won't be hammering on it, just cruising. Probably limit the RPMs to under 4500 max. (I bought a tacometer for this reason). Well some of that never happened. I must have forgot about sourcing a NOS pushrod but recently, I did bump into three NOS 1673 721 56 D500 solid lifters at Martin Kolner's website and I bought them (Photos below). Now that I see the lifter, I can imagine the rounded end of the pushrod sitting down in the cup end of the lifter. If that cup was filled with sludge or whatnot (??!!), I can imagine it being the source of the sponginess that I felt. I will never know until I pull the intake off and examine the lifter. At least now, I have a proper D500 solid lifter to exchange for whatever is down there. (Yes, I know that they look dirty. It seems to be the old packing grease/wax that they used to protect the parts. I am confident that they will clean up real good. ) Edited by 56D500boy 2018-02-15 7:34 PM (56D500SolidLifterPN1673721.jpg) (56DodgeD500SolidLifterTappets_PN1673721.jpg) Attachments ---------------- 56D500SolidLifterPN1673721.jpg (226KB - 501 downloads) 56DodgeD500SolidLifterTappets_PN1673721.jpg (80KB - 501 downloads) | ||
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| wayfarer |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 940 ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Location: Peoples Republic of Oregon | Gotta love Cosmoline....but it does the job! | ||
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| 56D500boy |
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Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 11184 ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Location: Lower Mainland BC | wayfarer - 2018-02-16 11:03 AM Gotta love Cosmoline....but it does the job! I've only really ever experienced Cosmoline as a Volkswagen Jetta/Audi material - where it does work well to keep the body bit from rusting. As per my PM to you, wayfarer, I am sorry that I didn't appreciate your well- intentioned comments back in June when I was in the middle of my solid lifter valve adjustment and first encountered that No. 8 intake sponginess. My bad. Sorry. Yesterday, I contacted Kanter (as you suggested) to see if they have the necessary push-rods, i.e. 1730 565 and 1730 567. Edited by 56D500boy 2018-02-16 11:35 AM (56DodgeD500PushRodPNs.jpg) Attachments ---------------- 56DodgeD500PushRodPNs.jpg (182KB - 477 downloads) | ||
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| wayfarer |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 940 ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Location: Peoples Republic of Oregon | No worries!! I only wish that I had some magic fairy dust for these situations. | ||
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| 56D500boy |
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Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 11184 ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Location: Lower Mainland BC | wayfarer - 2018-02-16 4:00 PM No worries!! I only wish that I had some magic fairy dust for these situations. I would be happy with X-ray vision Edited by 56D500boy 2018-02-16 4:12 PM | ||
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| 56D500boy |
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Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 11184 ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Location: Lower Mainland BC | . 8 years later, I am back playing with these lash adjuster screws. While investigating what the lifter in No. 6 intake was (solid like it should be or ???) I broke that adjuster while loosening it off so I could move the rocker aside and pull the push rod and then grab the lifter (the intake and valley pan are both off). See the first photo below. Based on the second photo I think there is only 2 or 3 threads stuck in the rocker. My plan at this time is to rotate the engine (via the crank pulley nut) enough so the NO. 6 intake lifter is on the cam base circle and the push rod is loose (no pressure on the adjuster screw ball). Once I have it in the position, I plan to use an E-Z Out to turn the rest of the adjuster out of the rocker arm The adjuster is actually hollow so the bit that broke off might NOT need drilling to get an E-Z Out started. Hope you agree that is a reasonable plan of action. *OR* you can provide another solution. Edited by 56D500boy 2026-03-13 4:48 PM (BrokenNo6IntakeAdjusterWithNo4AdjusterOutALot_Annotated.jpg) (NOSAdjusterVsBrokenAdjuster.jpg) Attachments ---------------- BrokenNo6IntakeAdjusterWithNo4AdjusterOutALot_Annotated.jpg (152KB - 136 downloads) NOSAdjusterVsBrokenAdjuster.jpg (84KB - 139 downloads) | ||
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| 56D500boy |
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Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 11184 ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Location: Lower Mainland BC | . So I just went out to garage armed with a Q-tip and my set of Screw Extractors (E-Z Outs). The Q-tip was to clean out the exposed dish part of the broken adjuster so I could contemplate which extractor (and therefore what drill size I was going to need tomorrow). As I cleaned out the "dish", I thought I was seeing things: The broken adjuster bit seemed to move under the extreme action of the Q-tip. I played with Q-tip on the broken adjuster and before I knew it, the broken tip spun out. No further action required. !!! WHAATTT??? Tomorrow I will figure out why the push rod is still stuck on the rocker arm with the adjuster 100% out. Let's hear it for the power of Q-tips: Edited by 56D500boy 2026-03-13 9:17 PM (RecoveredTipOfBroken315HemiAdjuster.jpg) Attachments ---------------- RecoveredTipOfBroken315HemiAdjuster.jpg (149KB - 140 downloads) | ||
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| 56D500boy |
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Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 11184 ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Location: Lower Mainland BC | 56D500boy - 2026-03-13 6:14 PM. Tomorrow I will figure out why the push rod is still stuck on the rocker arm with the adjuster 100% out It wasn't stuck after all. I tilted the rocker away from the No.6 intake valve tip (just enough to clear the push rod tip) and "locked" (rested) the rocker beside the valve spring. Pulled the No.6 intake push rod. Pulled the No. 6 Intake lifter. The same as the No. 4 intake lifter, i.e. hydraulic. I have ordered a couple of Melling JB-812s from Rock Auto. Supposed to be here Wednesday. | ||
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| wayfarer |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 940 ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Location: Peoples Republic of Oregon | Q-tip huh??? Dang, sometimes we just get lucky! Now, about the lifters...xx-812 are hydraulic, is that what you really wanted? xx-937 are solid lifters. I have a 4-pack of Johnson if that helps any. Edited by wayfarer 2026-03-15 11:44 AM | ||
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Anybody recognize these strange 315 hemi valve lash adjusters?