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 Question about the 1507 050 Coolant Temperature SenderJump to page : 1 Now viewing page 1 [50 messages per page] | View previous thread :: View next thread |
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56D500boy |
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Expert Posts: 4599    Location: Lower Mainland BC | I am redoing some of the crusty wiring on my 56 D500 engine as I put it back together (valve covers off to adjust the valves and get painted, other can's of worms, etc). I bought a NOS 1507 050 coolant temperature sender to replace the existing sender and now I am confused by the presence of two fibre (electrical insulation) washers (one tiny inner one and one larger outer one). I am not sure where the ring terminal needs to go (sandwiched between the washers??) or what? Edited by 56D500boy 2017-07-05 7:40 PM (1507050_CoolantTempSensor.jpg) Attachments ----------------  1507050_CoolantTempSensor.jpg (65KB - 127 downloads) | ||
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| 56D500boy |
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Expert Posts: 4599 Location: Lower Mainland BC | IF someone could confirm, I think the fibre washers are there to prevent contact between the gauge wire ring terminal and the main brass body of the sender. On that basis, the ring terminal will just go under the pressed metal nut, which is in insulated contact with the center portion of the sender (must be a variable resistance to ground = variable current or voltage (?) = the gauge signal). (Or something like that  ) (My existing sender does not have that single nut - it has two jamb nuts which don't want to come off now without spinning the center terminal)  Edited by 56D500boy 2017-07-05 8:55 PM | ||
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| Powerflite |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 5350   Location: So. California | |||
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| 56D500boy |
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Expert Posts: 4599 Location: Lower Mainland BC | Powerflite - 2017-07-05 10:37 PM It's just a single connection that you don't want shorting out so you're analysis is correct. You should put the wire on top of the large fiber washer, but I would also put a thin metal washer under the nut so that it won't twist your wire as much when you tighten it. All depends on if you can fit it though, so it needs to be thin. Thanks for the confirmation and the suggestion. I will finish that part of the rewiring tomorrow. | ||
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| Chrome58 |
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Expert Posts: 1222  Location: Belgium, 40 miles south of Brussels | I bought a new one from Rockauto for my car. And I must say I was puzzled by the terminal, which is a thin round thing. I connected my wire terminal to it, but it keeps slipping. I'm unsure about the correct way to connect the wire to it. (1T1323__ra_p.jpg) Attachments ---------------- 1T1323__ra_p.jpg (24KB - 127 downloads) | ||
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| mstrug |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 5741 Location: Newark, Texas (Fort Worth) | |||
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| Chrome58 |
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Expert Posts: 1222 Location: Belgium, 40 miles south of Brussels | |||
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| LD3 Greg |
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Expert Posts: 1691 Location: Ontario, Canada | This is what I use and I will send you 2 when you order the other terminals. Greg (image.jpg) Attachments ---------------- image.jpg (80KB - 121 downloads) | ||
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| 56D500boy |
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Expert Posts: 4599 Location: Lower Mainland BC | Okay so I got the old sender out (5/8" wrench and a good rap on the end of the wrench with a rubber mallet to get it going). Lost a tiny amount of coolant in the less than a second that it took to start the new one in. (Note to self: place rag under sender location next time to catch the flow). As I am tightening it up, I realize that I might have out-clevered myself: I put white teflon tape on the threads of the new sender before I removed the old one and installed the new one. Unless the threads cut through the tape somewhere, I will have lost the ground that the sender needs. DUH. I am going to leave it as is until I start the engine again (tomorrow?) and see if I get any signal from the sender. If not, when then engine cools I will remove the new sender and remove the teflon tape and re-install. Probably have to temporarily re-install the old sender as a stopper while I remove the teflon tape (if indeed that is needed). We'll see. | ||
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| Powerflite |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 5350 Location: So. California | |||
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| 56D500boy |
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Expert Posts: 4599 Location: Lower Mainland BC | Powerflite - 2017-07-06 3:16 PM It is easy to test. Just put an ohm meter between the sensor housing and the negative battery terminal and see what kind of resistance you get. Good plan. Thanks. I put my DMM onto 200 ohms and touched one probe to the brass outer hex of the sender and the other to the generator mounting bolt on the other side of the water manifold. I got continuity so I will assume that the gauge will work just fine. (I changed the sensor (and the wiring) because I never saw the coolant temp gauge rise very much even after the engine running for some time). Poking around my files, I found this: Edited by 56D500boy 2017-07-07 1:32 AM (TemperatureSenderCrossSection.jpg) Attachments ---------------- TemperatureSenderCrossSection.jpg (67KB - 126 downloads) | ||
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| 60 dart |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 8513 Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | |||
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| 56D500boy |
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Expert Posts: 4599 Location: Lower Mainland BC | I took the 56 Dodge to an ad hoc car show at an A&W about 20 miles away yesterday. Went there early = rush hour traffic. I did get on a highway part of the way and did have the old dear up to 65 mph (Yikes) at one point. When I arrived at the A&W I noticed that the coolant temperature was still as hot as I have ever seen it, i.e. barely off the peg (moves off the peg when the ignition is on) but always no higher than the start of the line, as shown in the photo below. (Just an example 56 Dodge dash photo (not mine) that I have annotated). Seems too low. How can I check this?  Edited by 56D500boy 2017-09-08 5:51 PM (56DodgeWaterTempGaugeExample.jpg) Attachments ---------------- 56DodgeWaterTempGaugeExample.jpg (175KB - 125 downloads) | ||
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| DepsilonD |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 788 Location: Buena Park, CA | |||
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| 56D500boy |
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Expert Posts: 4599 Location: Lower Mainland BC | DepsilonD - 2017-09-08 6:33 PM The red line you drew in is typically where my car runs on the gauge Dave. It's gone midway + on the gauge a few times but only in high heat/traffic situations (like sitting in line at a car show). Well, I guess it could be real then. I did have the rad recored with a 3 row instead of the original 2 row. | ||
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| 57chizler |
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Expert Posts: 3165 Location: NorCal | |||
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| 56D500boy |
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Expert Posts: 4599 Location: Lower Mainland BC | 57chizler - 2017-09-12 4:45 PM If you have an efficient cooling system the gauge will follow the thermostat temperature, 180° thermostat will have the needle about half-way and a 160° will read lower. I installed that NOS temperature sender and there was no real change to the very low temp reading. Based on my understanding of the way the gauge works, there is a mechanically variable resistor inside the sender, like this: On this basis, I presume that the voltage that gauge sees is variable, between 0 V cold and battery voltage (or something stabilized, e.g. 5 V) maximum when very hot. I happen to have a "spare" temp gauge that came with a gauge cluster that I bought. Yesterday I tried this temp gauge by hooking it to the battery, one terminal to + and the other to ground. I wasn't sure what the hook up was and therefore I tried it two different ways on the two terminals on the back. In both cases, the needle on the gauge went hard to the left. I am probably missing something. Like one terminal is 12V in and other is 5V out to the sender and the sender is ground ???. OR ??? Not feeling very gauge smart at the moment. | ||
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| Powerflite |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 5350 Location: So. California | |||
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| wizard |
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 11909 Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | |||
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| 56D500boy |
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Expert Posts: 4599 Location: Lower Mainland BC | wizard - 2018-04-28 4:36 AM Try to mount two nuts on the stud and carefully turn the stem a Little - sometimes there's bad contact inside the senders, The sender is a NOS one that I installed. But sure, I will try that too. I am not sure if the voltage to/from the gauge is regulated to 5V or ?? based on these diagrams: (56DodgeWiringDiagrams_2.JPG) (56DodgeWiringDiagrams_3.JPG) Attachments ---------------- 56DodgeWiringDiagrams_2.JPG (212KB - 80 downloads) 56DodgeWiringDiagrams_3.JPG (234KB - 79 downloads) | ||
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| 56D500boy |
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Expert Posts: 4599 Location: Lower Mainland BC | The coloured section is a portion of this larger 11 x 17 (ish) wiring schematic. I know that the colours aren't always accurate, I just use it as a guide. (56DodgeWiringDiagram_Combined_small.jpg) Attachments ---------------- 56DodgeWiringDiagram_Combined_small.jpg (242KB - 104 downloads) | ||
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| 56D500boy |
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Expert Posts: 4599 Location: Lower Mainland BC | Got the No. 94 Service Reference Book from James Van B. in Oz the other day (thanks James). Thought I would scan a few pertinent pages for this thread and post them. The discussion/description helped me understand why there are two coils at the back of most of the gauges and, specifically, the temperature gauge. I would like to figure out how to manually (with a 12V source) peg the gauge to HIGH so I at least know that it is working. Edited by 56D500boy 2018-11-21 10:29 PM (55-56DodgeTemperatureSenderInfo_1_small.jpg) (55-56DodgeTemperatureSenderInfo_1B_small.jpg) (55-56DodgeTemperatureSenderInfo_2_small.jpg) Attachments ---------------- 55-56DodgeTemperatureSenderInfo_1_small.jpg (205KB - 58 downloads) 55-56DodgeTemperatureSenderInfo_1B_small.jpg (186KB - 54 downloads) 55-56DodgeTemperatureSenderInfo_2_small.jpg (209KB - 57 downloads) | ||
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| The Adventurer |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 859 Location: Melbourne, Australia | |||
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| wizard |
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 11909 Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | 56D500boy - 2018-11-22 2:57 AM I would like to figure out how to manually (with a 12V source) peg the gauge to HIGH so I at least know that it is working. Dave, normally this should be done with a tank sender (variable resitance), but you can do it this way. Remove the temp sender Connection from the temp sender Connect a long wire to the temp sender connector and pull it inside your car Now, with the ignition on, hold the wire against a good ground while you watch the temperature gauge. Disconnect the wire as soon as you see the needle is near hot (can go very fast). If you don't disconnect directly, the gauge or needle can be damaged. The temperatur sender gives a variable resitance towards ground | ||
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| 56D500boy |
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Expert Posts: 4599 Location: Lower Mainland BC | Thanks for that idea Sven. I have a mechanical variable resistor (house light dimmer) that I can put into series with that "fake" ground wire and dial in zero to max resistance and see how the gauge responds. | ||
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| 56D500boy |
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Expert Posts: 4599 Location: Lower Mainland BC | Please correct me if I am wrong, based on the above diagrams and pages from the instruction books, the ground wire to the coolant temp sender is the one connected to the gauge via a bullet-ended wire and the switched 12V source is the one connected via ring terminal and the threaded stud and nut?? (Left = bullet connector, right = ring terminal): Edited by 56D500boy 2019-03-04 11:16 PM (1955 Plymouth Oil Pressure and Temp Gauge 1 2.JPG) Attachments ---------------- 1955 Plymouth Oil Pressure and Temp Gauge 1 2.JPG (126KB - 29 downloads) | ||
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| 56D500boy |
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Expert Posts: 4599 Location: Lower Mainland BC | Had the 56 Dodge out today (8 C and sunny). Roads were nice and dry. Put some 94 Chevron (with lots of Techron and supposedly no ethanol) in the tank. Purrrr.... When I came back, I looked for my never-used air chisel for my cross-member clean up project. In that search process, I also found a new in the box laser temperature measuring "gun". I opened the box up and installed the battery in the gun and "shot" the top of the rad tank. Read about 170-2 F. Which is interesting because the coolant temp gauge only every gets to the left end of the normal "bar", which is supposed to be about 150 F. I really need to figure out how to install the NOS temp gauge I picked up earlier in the week - without totally disassembling the dash. Edited by 56D500boy 2019-03-10 9:25 PM | ||
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| sermey |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 1040 Location: SWITZERLAND | |||
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| 56D500boy |
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Expert Posts: 4599 Location: Lower Mainland BC | sermey - 2019-03-11 5:37 AM Here you may find some useful answers to your Temperature Sender problems. - SERGE - http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=29524&... Thanks for the link Serge. I think that I went through that thread before (last year?). I am not sure if you are suggesting that the sender or the thermostat are faulty. Both are "new" (NOS or new). | ||
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