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What's your candidate for the Spirit of the Forward Look 10 years on?
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firedome
Posted 2017-07-23 4:44 PM (#544686)
Subject: What's your candidate for the Spirit of the Forward Look 10 years on?



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We all love the adventurous, daring, futuristic designs of 1955-on of the Exner design-guided FL cars, especially the wild '57 to '61 designs, I think we'd all agree, and some from other makers in that spirit, what one could call "could have been" FLs like the '59 Buick, '59 Cad (truly wild and maybe too unrestrained), '57 Lincoln but certainly there were others that did have that futuristic vibe we associate with Exner, albeit not as tasteful.

I'd submit that a bit later on in the '60s there were a very few rare cars that also had the kind of futuristic, optimistic, US-at-it's- zenith kind of design vibe that were, in their own way, a '60s interpretation of the can-do optimism which brought us the Forward Look 10 years earlier. No there were no fins, they were not dripping with chrome, but theyr were as far out and Space Age-y as Exner's earlier masterpieces, every bit as timeless in design, and, equally, never to be seen again. With power, beauty, and eminently driveable, they were able to cross this great country for days on end at 100+ mph with 4 occupants in total comfort. Nearly as fast, and far more elegant and sophisticated than any muscle car, these were the ultimate Gran Tourismo automobile of the '60s.

So my candidates for the FL Spirit cars of the '60s are the '66-67 Olds Toronado and Buick Riviera GS: fast, sleek, incredibly ground-breakingly gorgeous, I can still recall to this day how earth shakingly mind blowing they were upon first seeing them in the showrooms of Oct of 1965. Though quite distinct from each other, there was absolutely nothing like them in the world, and never will be again. In the past, having owned 3 '60s Toronados, I leaned towards that design, but now favor the Riv. If only we had cars like this to choose amongst today.

Be sure to click on Leno's Toro in the list below...

YYMV, and no doubt some diehards (we know who they are) will accept no substitutes, but these cars, to me, are in the same category: daring, futuristic, way ahead of their time in 1965, and design masterpieces in their own right, and a true reflection of the American spirit of their time, surely the penultimate design of Bill Mitchell's long reign at GM, the Corvettes imo coming off as almost crude in comparison.

What are your candidates for 1962 and later US cars with the Spirit of the Forward look?
These 2 are mine.


Edited by firedome 2017-07-23 5:30 PM




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60 Imp
Posted 2017-07-24 5:23 AM (#544709 - in reply to #544686)
Subject: RE: What's your candidate for the Spirit of the Forward Look 10 years on?


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Here is a link to some concept sketches. Plenty of material out there, but most seems to be Atomic age stuff.

My vote goes to the Daytona and Superbirds. High performance with aerodynamics designed into the cars body. Much like a FL, and from the Chryco stable!

Steve.

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=...

Edited by 60 Imp 2017-07-24 5:24 AM
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1960fury
Posted 2017-07-24 7:34 AM (#544718 - in reply to #544709)
Subject: RE: What's your candidate for the Spirit of the Forward Look 10 years on?



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fl spirit? it was gone around 1960 and never returned. you can't compare the 55-61 design period with any other. never before or after designers went crazy like that and design played such an important role. it was freedom, optimism and good times made out of steel. not even the sky was the limit. these days were unique and will never return.
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wizard
Posted 2017-07-24 9:17 AM (#544724 - in reply to #544686)
Subject: Re: What's your candidate for the Spirit of the Forward Look 10 years on?



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The Forward Look span from 55 to 61, thereafter Exner still had some designs that was realizid, but all incomparable to the 3 generations of the Forward Look.

I can agree that later cars from other brands can have some appeal but the Forward Look was dead already in 61 and the design was totally out of interest for the average car buyer just a couple of years later.

So, the spirit left with Exner for to never come back again.

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ruchaven
Posted 2017-07-24 1:28 PM (#544754 - in reply to #544686)
Subject: Re: What's your candidate for the Spirit of the Forward Look 10 years on?


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My vote goes to the Studebaker Avanti.
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ttotired
Posted 2017-07-24 5:48 PM (#544766 - in reply to #544686)
Subject: Re: What's your candidate for the Spirit of the Forward Look 10 years on?



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Yep, agree with Sid and Wiz.

Forward look era died with fins

Every era (you can pretty much put them into 5 year blocks) had styling upheavals, some more than others though

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, I see nothing in those cars, but being here in Aus, these cars wernt on the road here (as common cars, if at all)

Our 3 main cars of the late 60s/ early 70s were Holden, Ford and valiant/Chrysler, so the cars from that era (when I was a little kid) I like more reflect the Australian designs from the big 3

I will say though that I havnt got caught up in the forwardlook hype/experience, I just like cars with fins and really, old cars in general, so I might be missing the point of the question.



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Greg P.
Posted 2017-07-24 6:33 PM (#544768 - in reply to #544686)
Subject: RE: What's your candidate for the Spirit of the Forward Look 10 years on?



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I also agree with the previous posters in that, at least in my opinion, nothing ever really matched the spirit of the forward look. I think the Rivieras and Toronados are cool, but they look weirdly heavy and awkward to me and don't express the concept of motion.

I think the 68-70 Chargers were nicely styled, but not particularly bold in concept. The 74-78 AMC Matador coupes were certainly bold, but not very pretty at all.

There have been a few non-FL cars that I purchased based on their styling alone, at least they appealed to me:

- 1995 Cadillac STS - super clean design and the 300 HP Northstar engine and beefy suspension made it a blast to drive.

- 1994 Mitsubishi 3000GT - nicely styled sporty car

- 2003 Jaguar S-Type - retro styling made it perhaps the polar opposite of the Forward Look concept, but the look was distinctive. Of all the late-model (non-vintage) cars I have ever owned, My S-Type garnered the highest number of unsolicited compliments, especially from the ladies. It was actually remarkable how many women at a stop light or parking lot would say "I like your car."

All that said, the car, that for me, provided a twinge of that Forward Look feeling of style is this Cadillac Escala. Yes, I know it's a concept car, but if they ever built one, I'd buy it. What do you think?



(Cadillac Escala.jpg)



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uncltank
Posted 2017-07-24 6:40 PM (#544769 - in reply to #544686)
Subject: Re: What's your candidate for the Spirit of the Forward Look 10 years on?


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The only spirit of 'Forward Look' in 10 years, will be the ones we preserve now...
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mstrug
Posted 2017-07-24 6:42 PM (#544770 - in reply to #544686)
Subject: Re: What's your candidate for the Spirit of the Forward Look 10 years on?



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I like the old Facel Vega with a 393 Hemi.





(FacelVega4door.jpg)



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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2017-07-25 2:38 AM (#544798 - in reply to #544770)
Subject: Re: What's your candidate for the Spirit of the Forward Look 10 years on?



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To this design nut, post-war automotive styling hit a zenith in the
fin era. I am not a diehard Forward Look fan. Exner oversaw some
real dandy body sculpting themes, and some real duds, just as GM
had a few wing-ding home run swings and a lot of good, but not
great designs. FOMOCO had a few good ones too. Exner just happened
to nail it more often than not for a 6 year run, making him The King.
He also had the good fortune to have excellent engineering (with the
exception of body rust) to really deliver a sound car in a really nice
wrapper.

I tend to agree with what a number of design guys have written,
that when "futurism" WAS the style, it was really hard to go anywhere
from there, in terms of "new" being equated with more modern and
"of the future". "The future" had oddly become something old and
out of style, in a way it had never done before. Automotive design
suffered this worse than most fashion-designed products, and most
agree that the industry fell into something of a freefall malaise. I
always referred to the 62-65 years as "The Lost Years". Carmakers
seemed to be sort of lost, and without direction after the fin idea
crashed. Along about 1965, it seems U.S. carmakers picked up a
strong theme again and ran with it for the next 3-5 years.

This period also coincided with a dramatic zenith in performance
that paralelled the styling zenith and crash that occurred 10 years
earlier. After 1970 +/-, cars were not only gutless, they were a
shadow of the former offerings in both styling AND performance.
The salt in the wound for me was the period advertising, telling
the public how great these POS's were, but with the added new
twist of how awful those older cars were !

My vote for any post-fin era car designs goes to stuff like the 2nd
generation Mustang, the 65-66 Galaxie, and the 66-67 B-body
Mopars. Crisp, angular lines, light, airy roofs, open interiors ....
The concept did not last long, and soon enough, all ot them became
bloated pigs with pointlessly thick bodies and claustrophobic interiors.

I cannot even ponder anything after 1970. If there were some high
points of design or otherwise, they were countered with cheap plastic
trim and bumpers, cheesy interiors, and nightmares of complicated
BS under the hood. What is the point ? Just about anything pre-70
has so much more to offer.

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firedome
Posted 2017-07-26 12:11 PM (#544905 - in reply to #544686)
Subject: Re: What's your candidate for the Spirit of the Forward Look 10 years on?



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I'd agree from '70 on it was all downhill... aside from usual naysaying by folks not even alive at the time, thanks for the few well thought out responses: yes, other manufacturers could do some good work, examining beyond the cliched "Mopar or No car" or "Das Fins Oder Nichts", not flat out knee-jerk rejecting the the idea that the SPIRIT of FL could have lived on, even if to a very limited extent.

Of COURSE the Forward Look died in '61, that was not the point: that optimism and futurism in the shape of sheet metal was still alive, design DID still matter, just in a very different, but equally legitimate, idiom. Looking to the future in 1966 meant rocket ships without fins: Buck Rogers of the late '30s might have still may seemed futuristic in 1955, but by 1965 Saturn V was the reality!! It's patently absurd to maintain that only fin designs can connote futurism. Only a productive, prosperous, confident, forward-thinking society could have produced a design like a '66 Riv, Toronado, and some of the others mentioned, and if they weren't futuristic and forward looking in the fall of 1965, I don't know what was! Anyone else remember the '66 Toro ads featuring John "Shorty" Powers, the spokesman of NASA? They weren't exactly looking to the past. People under 65 or so don't have any idea what a bombshell those cars were at the time, every bit as much as "Suddenly it's 1960".

Edited by firedome 2017-07-26 12:24 PM
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Chrys 68
Posted 2017-07-27 7:24 PM (#544990 - in reply to #544686)
Subject: RE: What's your candidate for the Spirit of the Forward Look 10 years on?



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For me this is space design for the first moonwalk. This spaceship is the ultimate travel machine
from the Apollo era. Thinks it's an excellent forward look representative ten years later.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9Xz7u9gdm0

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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2017-07-28 12:33 AM (#545003 - in reply to #544905)
Subject: Re: What's your candidate for the Spirit of the Forward Look 10 years on?



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I would respectfully disagree with your assertion that optimism and futurism
had not died ten years on. A pretty heavy cloud had settled over the American
conscience, with things like the Vietnam War, race riots and civil unrest, political
protest, and "the counterculture". American culture was becoming divided and
the exuberant and playful optimism for "the future" was not only out of style, it
was considered corny and naïve. What carried forth was a toned down, restrained
version, if it was carried forth at all. Cynicism was the new game.

As for automotive design, it was kind of like advertising for toilet paper .... who
WASN'T buying this stuff (meaning new cars) ? March forward to 1975 and one is
really left to ponder the stupidity of the American public as they traded in their 10-
20 year old car for one of those pieces of sh!t as being some sort of "good idea".
It wasn't as bad just 10 years on, but after fins died, I say "futurism, my ass".
Cars were fast becoming little more than disposable trash, year-by-year, with no
cultural attachment like was present in 1956, much like cars or electronics are today.

I find it interesting that some see cars like the Toronado and Riviera as "futuristic".
I watched these cars being off-loaded at the dealerships, and while I thought they
were interesting (almost all new cars seemed interesting back then), I thought they
were heavy and ponderous, with interiors so smothering as to rival the massive and
overstuffed leather chairs and couches in Grandpa's den. When light and bright and
playful design like a coral or turquoise 57 New Yorker or 59 VW window van were now
passé, where is design to go ?

We know where it went. Understanding how it got there and all the factors orbiting
the scene at the time put much of it into meaningful perspective. Some day there will
be people getting all starry-eyed over that wonderful Toyota Prius they once owned,
and how "futuristic" it was.

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BigBlockMopar
Posted 2017-07-28 5:10 AM (#545013 - in reply to #544686)
Subject: Re: What's your candidate for the Spirit of the Forward Look 10 years on?



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Greg P.- You could buy a Tesla and few would know the difference from the side.

That FacelVega posted has a lot of 'lines' simply just not flowing/going for it in its design.
Almost reminds me a bit of those Studebaker 'concoction cars' were it appeared 3 or more design studios seperatly had been working different areas of the car.
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1960fury
Posted 2017-07-28 7:32 AM (#545014 - in reply to #545003)
Subject: Re: What's your candidate for the Spirit of the Forward Look 10 years on?



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Doctor DeSoto - 2017-07-28 12:33 AM

I would respectfully disagree with your assertion that optimism and futurism
had not died ten years on. A pretty heavy cloud had settled over the American
conscience, with things like the Vietnam War, race riots and civil unrest, political
protest, and "the counterculture". American culture was becoming divided and
the exuberant and playful optimism for "the future" was not only out of style, it
was considered corny and naïve. What carried forth was a toned down, restrained
version, if it was carried forth at all. Cynicism was the new game.




i "studied" that time and its true, you can see, or feel it in ads, films, charts, song lyrics, design, etc, etc. i repeat, the "fl spirit" died in the early 60s.

that 66 toronado f.i. it is already pretty close to the dull and lifeless designs of today. not such a big difference. the front end already submissively ducking down, no longer the menacing and element defying proud grilles of the 50s. the 50s! this was the american way and spirit. here i am, i'm proud to be american, i'm not hiding and i'm going to fight back if you mess with me. all this changed in the 60s, the result of that is visible today.

Edited by 1960fury 2017-07-28 7:46 AM
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horace
Posted 2017-07-28 11:48 AM (#545022 - in reply to #544686)
Subject: Re: What's your candidate for the Spirit of the Forward Look 10 years on?



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NOTHING lasts forever including auto concept, the forwards brought us out of KT Keller's high hat phase in to exciting times for Chrysler. HOWEVER, wouldn't life be boring if all cars were 57 Custom Royal Lancers etc? If only the 57's were ready to put in show rooms as a quality product! Oh, sure they're revamped now but what a mess for a time, sorry to wipe the stars from your eyes. Let me recommend the 68 Dodge Charger as the next stylish exciting car, with the 69s & 70s continuing yet adding exciting colors. Of course , we'll never agree but The Forward were the forwards.. but always others cars come along
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Viper Guy
Posted 2017-07-28 11:29 PM (#545077 - in reply to #544686)
Subject: Re: What's your candidate for the Spirit of the Forward Look 10 years on?



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I'm in agreement with the 68 -'70 Chargers with the '69 being the best. I never even thought of them till horace mentioned them above and I even had one! (Actually two - the first one was a blue and white SE new in '69 and this one was purchased and restored in 2006 and sold in 2009) Shame on me..............

The '67 through '69 Barracuda fastbacks weren't too bad either.........I purchased this white one in 2012 and sold it in 2014. Nice car. A RAMCHARGERS member bought this one new and sort of abandoned it. It was restored from the ground up.

Edited by Viper Guy 2017-07-29 12:28 AM




(Charger Feature.jpg.JPG)



(LF Quarter with Redlines.JPG)



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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2017-07-29 12:25 AM (#545085 - in reply to #545077)
Subject: Re: What's your candidate for the Spirit of the Forward Look 10 years on?



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As a kid, my best friend and I haunted the new car dealerships
around Bellevue in the 1960's. We collected brochures and dreamed
of which cars we would own "when we got big". My friend liked
Fords and hanging around Metke Ford, on the corner of NE 8th and
108th Ave. He was all about the Shelbys and Cobras.

I, on the other hand, liked going down to B.C. Hawk Dodge/Plymouth
and oogling the Coronets, Chargers, and Plymouth B-body offerings.
The Coke bottle side profile and crisp body lines of the 66-67 Coronets
were my favorite. Still are.





(66 coro rag out of shop.jpg)



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Viper Guy
Posted 2017-07-29 12:31 AM (#545086 - in reply to #545085)
Subject: Re: What's your candidate for the Spirit of the Forward Look 10 years on?



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Doctor DeSoto - 2017-07-28 11:25 PM

As a kid, my best friend and I haunted the new car dealerships
around Bellevue in the 1960's. We collected brochures and dreamed
of which cars we would own "when we got big". My friend liked
Fords and hanging around Metke Ford, on the corner of NE 8th and
108th Ave. He was all about the Shelbys and Cobras.

I, on the other hand, liked going down to B.C. Hawk Dodge/Plymouth
and oogling the Coronets, Chargers, and Plymouth B-body offerings.
The Coke bottle side profile and crisp body lines of the 66-67 Coronets
were my favorite. Still are.



I like 'em too Doc.........I restored this one in 2005 and sold it in 2006. Went to England. But I don't think they offered much in the way of futureistic styling.



(Sat Feature Desktop Background.JPG)



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Viper Guy
Posted 2017-07-29 12:54 AM (#545088 - in reply to #544686)
Subject: Re: What's your candidate for the Spirit of the Forward Look 10 years on?



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While I'm at it and although the 1980's kinda sucked for styling, I'm going to give a nod to the Pontiac Fiero of which I have owned about 30 of them over the years. The fastback is the only one I really like for a candidate for futuristic style though. This one was one of my favorites that I owned.



(DSCF2582.JPG)



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Viper Guy
Posted 2017-07-29 1:09 AM (#545089 - in reply to #544686)
Subject: Re: What's your candidate for the Spirit of the Forward Look 10 years on?



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Also from the not so great 80's, how about the Delorean? I owned this one for a couple of years, did a little work on it and sold it to it's new owner in England too. Not a bad car but a little quirky. PLUS this thing even goes "Back to the Future!"

Edited by Viper Guy 2017-07-29 1:14 AM




(DMC Muesum.jpg)



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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2017-07-29 2:26 AM (#545091 - in reply to #545085)
Subject: Re: What's your candidate for the Spirit of the Forward Look 10 years on?



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I guess one would have to define what "Futuristic" means to make
any of this have any meaning.

To me, a big part of the Forward Look "futurism" (that was shared
with most U.S. carmakers of the period) was big, open interiors and
lots of glass/outward visibility, and done with crisp, angular, or cleanly
swept lines. The 66-67 B-body Mopars, while very different from the
Forward Look Mopars, definitely had all of the above, at least in 2HT
and convertible body styles. As the styling pushed toward 1970, it
lost its crisp and angular lines and the interiors got thick and heavy,
rooflines and glass closed in. I might like the 69 Charger, but it was
moving away from the elements I consider "futuristic".

As a defining note, I do not consider "futurism" to be a moving target,
an ever-changing, amorphous concept, based on the whims of fashion
designers. Perhaps I am off-base in that ? But I see much of what is
sold as "futuristic" design being nothing more than cheap, plastic trash
being hyped as something it is not. At one time, 8-track sound systems
were hyped as "the future". Are they futuristic ? Hell no. They are pure
crap and never were anything but pure crap.
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firedome
Posted 2017-08-01 5:49 PM (#545324 - in reply to #544686)
Subject: Re: What's your candidate for the Spirit of the Forward Look 10 years on?



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My take: The '50s wasn't nearly as rosy as those not there would imagine: think McCarthy Hearings, US losing it's 1st war ever - Korea - the H- bomb, radiation scares, bomb shelters (I have one in my basement ca 1959!) the Rosenbergs, Little Rock, Jim Crow still unchecked in the South, the Cold War, Duck & Cover, John Birch Society... in reality Exner was in spite of, not because of, the times which could be scary, and fins were already under in '58 when Romney declared them to Time magazine as "Gas Guzzling Dinosaurs", cartoonists made fun of them, the writing was on the wall.
Too bad, really.

All the negative '60s stuff was mostly the later '60s. In '64 I was in HS: the US "Can Do" spirit totally prevailed: Kennedy said we'd soon be on the moon, things were upbeat, and the music reflected it: think Beach Boys, "Pretty Woman", Motown, Brit Invasion kind of upbeat. The Space race was exciting, science was exciting, Danish design was trending, progress seemed limitless, boomers were just starting to feel their power... BUT not for long.

JFK excepted, though, MOST of the really bad stuff: riots, heavy drugs, war, early awareness of pollution... those hadn't kicked in when '66 cars were designed in '63/4. I was Army ROTC from '68-70, the war in 'Nam didn't really affect the average US citizen's consciousness until at LEAST later '66-7 on. The Gulf of Tonkin incident was August of '64, at the very beginning of major US involvement that ramped up for 7 years. You can STUDY it all you want, but it was the end of the "Summer of Love" that was really the beginning of the end of US optimism, again '66-7, the riots, RFK, MLK , the Jan '68 Tet offensive, Nixon, some say the 'Stones Altamont concert, & Sharon Tate, was the end of US innocence, that's what finished it. The resulting atmosphere of paranoia from '67-8 on is, IMO, what spawned the horrible and cheezy bloated and retrograde Safety Barges of the '70s: converts, gone, battering ram bumpers, wheezing anemic pollution controlled engines: they were essentially rolling sensory deprivation chambers designed to isolate and protect, not to thrill, excite, or titillate. A '66 Toro was designed to thrill, excite, titillate, the product of an optimistic, positive society.

Yes, new cars, being aerodynamic, do NOW gracelessly emulate the 66 E Bodies, the 63 Sting Ray, but the point is that at that time nothing else did - they and a few Euro cars were the harbingers, a complete knockout at the time, every bit as much as a '57 Fury was then... can remember it well.

Edited by firedome 2017-08-01 6:33 PM
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1960fury
Posted 2017-08-02 5:32 PM (#545383 - in reply to #545324)
Subject: Re: What's your candidate for the Spirit of the Forward Look 10 years on?



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i always liked these cars, pontiac i guess, they look like spaceships. good design like the fuselage mopars of the early 70s but my heart belongs to the 50s.



(pontiac.jpg)



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