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Next Can of Worms: 56 Dodge Power Brake Hiss
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56D500boy
Posted 2017-08-29 11:21 PM (#547327)
Subject: Next Can of Worms: 56 Dodge Power Brake Hiss



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I haven't driven my car in 3 weeks because the generator died. I am supposedly getting the rewound/rebuilt generator back tomorrow and will be driving again (Yippee).

Prior to the generator going down, I noticed a couple of times when coming to a full stop with lots of pedal travel, there was a hissing from somewhere forward (I would say engine bay before passenger cabin). I didn't get a chance to investigate further before I removed the generator, disabling the car.

What should I be looking for and what parts are likely to be needed. (It was working fine but....)



My power brake booster is off this type (not my engine bay but a D500)




Edited by 56D500boy 2017-08-29 11:24 PM
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Powerflite
Posted 2017-08-29 11:34 PM (#547328 - in reply to #547327)
Subject: Re: Next Can of Worms: 56 Dodge Power Brake Hiss



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Your air cleaner looks really nice. You can get a rebuild kit for your booster off ebay.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brake-Booster-Rebuild-Kit-for-1957-1961-Chr...
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56D500boy
Posted 2017-08-30 1:15 AM (#547332 - in reply to #547328)
Subject: Re: Next Can of Worms: 56 Dodge Power Brake Hiss



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Powerflite - 2017-08-29 11:34 PM Your air cleaner looks really nice. You can get a rebuild kit for your booster off ebay.


Thanks for the eBay link. I have seen those kits before but I am wondering whether the issue isn't just some small seal. The "Accordian" bellow looks fine for example.

PS: This is my engine bay:



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Powerflite
Posted 2017-08-30 12:54 PM (#547357 - in reply to #547327)
Subject: Re: Next Can of Worms: 56 Dodge Power Brake Hiss



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I thought you had converted an original style air cleaner to use paper filters?
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56D500boy
Posted 2017-08-30 3:01 PM (#547366 - in reply to #547357)
Subject: Re: Next Can of Worms: 56 Dodge Power Brake Hiss



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Powerflite - 2017-08-30 12:54 PM I thought you had converted an original style air cleaner to use paper filters?


I have but that project isn't completed (yet). I opened up the middle bit to the full 4+ inches and now need to create a curved transition "cone". Created a new can of worms when I did that

More pressing issues at the moment, e.g. generator, etc.



Edited by 56D500boy 2017-08-30 3:03 PM
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Powerflite
Posted 2017-08-30 4:47 PM (#547373 - in reply to #547327)
Subject: RE: Next Can of Worms: 56 Dodge Power Brake Hiss



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I did the same thing recently, but I purchased an air filter adapter for a dual carb scoop from summit SUM-G3008-1 for $7. I cut the piece off and welded it to the bottom of the old filter. Now it fits the new large carb inlets. I haven't painted it black yet.



(SUM-G3102-1_SN_xl.jpg)



(Air Cleaner Base.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments SUM-G3102-1_SN_xl.jpg (77KB - 180 downloads)
Attachments Air Cleaner Base.jpg (149KB - 183 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2017-08-30 4:59 PM (#547375 - in reply to #547373)
Subject: RE: Next Can of Worms: 56 Dodge Power Brake Hiss



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I like your larger carb inlet solution but my issue is on the inside of the oil bath filter housing that I hacked (with tinsnips).



Edited by 56D500boy 2017-08-30 5:01 PM
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51coronet
Posted 2017-09-01 1:29 PM (#547518 - in reply to #547327)
Subject: Re: Next Can of Worms: 56 Dodge Power Brake Hiss


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Inspect the vacuum hoses and clamps while you are at it.
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56D500boy
Posted 2017-09-01 1:39 PM (#547519 - in reply to #547518)
Subject: Re: Next Can of Worms: 56 Dodge Power Brake Hiss



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51coronet - 2017-09-01 1:29 PM
Inspect the vacuum hoses and clamps while you are at it.


I plan to do that as Step 1.

Right after I figure out the non-charging with the rebuilt/bench tested generator issue.

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51coronet
Posted 2017-09-01 8:37 PM (#547553 - in reply to #547519)
Subject: Re: Next Can of Worms: 56 Dodge Power Brake Hiss


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56D500boy - 2017-09-01 1:39 PM

51coronet - 2017-09-01 1:29 PM
Inspect the vacuum hoses and clamps while you are at it.


I plan to do that as Step 1.

Right after I figure out the non-charging with the rebuilt/bench tested generator issue.

:)


Start the car with everything connected then disconnect the battery from the system. Usually easy with the negative black terminal due to it likely cabled to the engine block and nothing else. Your car should remain running and you will know if its the generator for sure. Turn things on one at a time it should all stay on, lights will likely increase in brightness up to a certain (maybe top out at about 1500-2000 rpm) if you step on the gas.

Edited by 51coronet 2017-09-01 8:40 PM
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56D500boy
Posted 2017-09-01 8:52 PM (#547554 - in reply to #547553)
Subject: Re: Next Can of Worms: 56 Dodge Power Brake Hiss



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51coronet - 2017-09-01 8:37 PM
Start the car with everything connected then disconnect the battery from the system. Usually easy with the negative black terminal due to it likely cabled to the engine block and nothing else. Your car should remain running and you will know if its the generator for sure. Turn things on one at a time it should all stay on, lights will likely increase in brightness up to a certain (maybe top out at about 1500-2000 rpm) if you step on the gas.


I've already tested the output of the generator at the Armature terminal = 0.9V at idle, 4.0 V if I rev the engine (hand on the carb linkage at the carb) so I know the generator is not GENERATING. What I am starting to conclude is the battery voltage is not getting from the FIELD terminal on the regulator to the FIELD terminal on the generator (there is continuity but probably no voltage). No voltage to the field coils = no generation. I think I will temporarily jump from the + battery post to the FIELD terminal on the generator. Should get something better and prove/disprove the FUBAR'd regulator theory (or not).

While I was playing with the generator, I tested the brakes. I get 2 strokes on the pedal (with hissing) until I no longer have power brakes, just a firm manual pedal (new master and wheel cylinders).

I couldn't figure out where the hiss was coming from, engine bay or under the dash.



Edited by 56D500boy 2017-09-01 8:54 PM
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56D500boy
Posted 2017-09-01 9:29 PM (#547556 - in reply to #547554)
Subject: Re: Next Can of Worms: 56 Dodge Power Brake Hiss



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56D500boy - 2017-09-01 8:52 PM
I've already tested the output of the generator at the Armature terminal = 0.9V at idle, 4.0 V if I rev the engine (hand on the carb linkage at the carb) so I know the generator is not GENERATING. What I am starting to conclude is the battery voltage is not getting from the FIELD terminal on the regulator to the FIELD terminal on the generator (there is continuity but probably no voltage). No voltage to the field coils = no generation. I think I will temporarily jump from the + battery post to the FIELD terminal on the generator. Should get something better and prove/disprove the FUBAR'd regulator theory (or not). :)


Well that was a really bad idea. I'm not getting battery voltage at the generator field terminal but when I tried jumping from the battery to the generator field terminal I got a nice spark (so I backed off). Now I think I have reversed the polarity of the generator. I tried jumping from the BAT terminal on the regulator to the ARM terminal on the regulator (engine off) to re-polarize the generator but it didn't work. I'm getting negative voltage still. I need intervention before I really mess things up.

But the shop that I have had some work done on the engine the oldest/best guy doesn't know generators so no help there.

Fugg. Two cans of worms open at the same time. Bad idea.

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Greg P.
Posted 2017-09-06 4:27 PM (#547856 - in reply to #547327)
Subject: RE: Next Can of Worms: 56 Dodge Power Brake Hiss



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I have a very stupid question... the 56 dodge is positive ground system, isn't it? The positive terminal of the battery should be connected to the ground cable that goes to the engine block. So, any voltage measured (with respect to ground) would be, and should be, negative. But I assume that you know that. Right? Just checking.

Edited by Greg P. 2017-09-06 4:31 PM
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56D500boy
Posted 2017-09-06 4:36 PM (#547857 - in reply to #547856)
Subject: RE: Next Can of Worms: 56 Dodge Power Brake Hiss



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Greg P. - 2017-09-06 4:27 PM I have a very stupid question... the 56 dodge is positive ground, isn't it? So, any voltage measured (with respect to ground) would be, and should be, negative. But I assume that you know that. Right? Just checking.


Sorry Greg. I now have to beat you up.

1956 was the year of Chyrsler's corporate switch from the quaint 6 volt positive ground system to the new and trendy 12 V negative ground system. I had a 1955 Dodge with 6V positive ground back in high school and university. I hated it because I couldn't add any cool accessories like an 8 track or cassette player. Plus a 6V battery at 40 below is just pathetic.

When I started looking for a car in the summer of 2016 to take my mind off my heart surgery , I specifically sought out a 56 Dodge or Plymouth because of the conventional 12 V negative ground electrical system.

End of the day (yesterday in fact), I repolarized the generator and replaced the voltage regulator with a NIB Niehoff and all is well.

As per this thread: http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=66324&...

Now back to that brake hissing problem.






Edited by 56D500boy 2017-09-06 4:38 PM
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Greg P.
Posted 2017-09-10 1:43 PM (#548102 - in reply to #547857)
Subject: RE: Next Can of Worms: 56 Dodge Power Brake Hiss



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56D500boy - 2017-09-06 4:36 PM

Greg P. - 2017-09-06 4:27 PM I have a very stupid question... the 56 dodge is positive ground, isn't it? So, any voltage measured (with respect to ground) would be, and should be, negative. But I assume that you know that. Right? Just checking.


Sorry Greg. I now have to beat you up.

1956 was the year of Chyrsler's corporate switch from the quaint 6 volt positive ground system to the new and trendy 12 V negative ground system. I had a 1955 Dodge with 6V positive ground back in high school and university. I hated it because I couldn't add any cool accessories like an 8 track or cassette player. Plus a 6V battery at 40 below is just pathetic.

When I started looking for a car in the summer of 2016 to take my mind off my heart surgery , I specifically sought out a 56 Dodge or Plymouth because of the conventional 12 V negative ground electrical system.

End of the day (yesterday in fact), I repolarized the generator and replaced the voltage regulator with a NIB Niehoff and all is well.

As per this thread: http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=66324&...

Now back to that brake hissing problem.





Interesting. So, my very first car was a 1956 Dodge that I owned for a very short time back in 1978 or so. For some reason, my distinct memory is that this car had a 12V positive ground system. Some possibilities are:

1. My car was wired backwards.
2. My brain is addled and I have this confused with some other car I owned.

Thanks for setting me straight.
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