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Brake Plugs
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Powerflite
Posted 2017-09-12 10:53 AM (#548206)
Subject: Brake Plugs



Expert

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Location: So. California
What do you guys use to plug the rear brake port when you do a dual port master conversion? The brake plugs that they sell are crap. They don't have a good mating surface and therefore, don't seal well. Compare the sealing surfaces in the picture. If you tighten them down to seal, they destroy the brass mating surface on the tee. I end up crimping the end of short tube, welding a ball onto it, and then brazing over the top of the weld. Probably overkill, but I don't want to chance a leak and I don't want to destroy the sealing surface of my original tee.



(Plug Seal.jpg)



(3-16Plug.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments Plug Seal.jpg (132KB - 4 downloads)
Attachments 3-16Plug.jpg (61KB - 2 downloads)
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jboymechanic
Posted 2017-09-12 1:31 PM (#548214 - in reply to #548206)
Subject: Re: Brake Plugs



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Posts: 1009
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Location: Muskego, WI
I've ordered mine from Summit Racing, along with some stainless steel braided lines from Earl's. There are other brands as well and even a variety of metals (steel, stainless, brass). I've had good luck with Earl's.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ear-9806624erl
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Powerflite
Posted 2017-09-12 1:44 PM (#548216 - in reply to #548214)
Subject: Re: Brake Plugs



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Location: So. California
What does the face of the seal look like? Do you have one you could take a picture of?
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1960fury
Posted 2017-09-12 2:57 PM (#548222 - in reply to #548206)
Subject: RE: Brake Plugs



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Location: northern germany
i see nothing wrong with the mating surface. actually the smaller contacting surface will create a better seal and you could easily add a copper washer, or disc, to protect the seat. thats what i did+ some teflon band thread sealer (i know....).

just noticed what you did. i'm a safety freak and while this will probably work for a long time, i wouldn't use it that way. its a thin wall weld, as good as a welded brake line (not legal over here). think metal fatigue after many 1000s of brake cycles. if you have to weld, cut the line flush with the fitting and then weld it shut. better yet, use the plug and a copper washer.

Edited by 1960fury 2017-09-12 3:04 PM
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jboymechanic
Posted 2017-09-12 4:02 PM (#548226 - in reply to #548216)
Subject: Re: Brake Plugs



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Location: Muskego, WI
Powerflite - 2017-09-12 12:44 PM

What does the face of the seal look like? Do you have one you could take a picture of?


I'll see if I have a spare one sitting around, but the end of the plug mimics the flare of a brake line (as it should).
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Powerflite
Posted 2017-09-12 4:14 PM (#548228 - in reply to #548206)
Subject: Re: Brake Plugs



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Location: So. California
I'm not concerned with the safety of what I did. The brass covering the weld prevents any fatigue issues, and because the line is small, it is less prone to fatigue. I have over 100K miles on a car ('63 Nova Wagon) with this, but I hate having to do it when it would be better to be able to purchase a plug that was made to work instead. You can make these plugs mostly seal if you really crank down on them, but by then, the seat is really destroyed for any other application, and I worry about sealing it again if I take it out. But even when I did crank on it, it still seeped slightly. It's just an inexcusably crappy design on these things. Adding copper is an interesting idea, but I would rather not add an additional mating surface, and it sounds like it might be harder to make the disc than to plug the line like I did. I am really hoping that there is a manufacturer that makes a good part, like possibly Earls. If so, I will buy them and save me the hassle.
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1960fury
Posted 2017-09-12 5:18 PM (#548236 - in reply to #548228)
Subject: Re: Brake Plugs



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Location: northern germany
Powerflite - 2017-09-12 4:14 PM

Adding copper is an interesting idea, but I would rather not add an additional mating surface


? but this is what you did. it doesn't matter if its a copper washer or a piece of an old brake line. if you look at an OE tube nut the edge is even sharper than the mating surface of the plug, you only have the old brake line between it. so a plug with a copper washer/disk doesn't add any more mating surfaces and rules out a possible leak of the weld.

Edited by 1960fury 2017-09-12 5:28 PM
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51coronet
Posted 2017-09-13 6:12 PM (#548304 - in reply to #548206)
Subject: Re: Brake Plugs


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Why not plumb in the rear line to the master cylinder? Why change to dual master if you aren't going to use the rear? I just want to know what the purpose would be?

Thanks
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1960fury
Posted 2017-09-13 6:40 PM (#548305 - in reply to #548304)
Subject: Re: Brake Plugs



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Location: northern germany
51coronet - 2017-09-13 6:12 PM

Why not plumb in the rear line to the master cylinder? Why change to dual master if you aren't going to use the rear? I just want to know what the purpose would be?

Thanks


the rear line goes directly from the dual MC to the rear (in my car coupled with a residual valve and proportion valve). the OE brake distribution block only has 1 inlet and 3 outlets.
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51coronet
Posted 2017-09-13 8:51 PM (#548310 - in reply to #548305)
Subject: Re: Brake Plugs


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So if I am understanding this correctly you install a dual master cylinder, plug the rear brake line port on the master and only use the front because of a distribution block?
or are you plugging a distribution block but using the rear port on the master cylinder? Maybe its just me that is confused?

Why not change the distribution block to a dual port for the fronts and plumb the rear line to the proportioning valve etc?

Or just install a combination valve on the master cylinder which in effect will do what the proportioning valve does and possibly a residual pressure valve or install one.
then run the lines from the combo valve. It will have 2 outlets for the fronts and a single for the rear which gets split at the rear axle.

I'm just not following the logic here unless its just because of the extra hassle to plumb in the rear line to the rear port of the master?

Thanks guys just trying to wrap my head around the posts here.

Edited by 51coronet 2017-09-13 8:57 PM
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Powerflite
Posted 2017-09-13 10:53 PM (#548323 - in reply to #548206)
Subject: Re: Brake Plugs



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Location: So. California
You have it mixed up. We keep the front lines going as they were before, but dis-connect the rear line from the stock triple port at the frame. Then use a short line to connect the rear line directly to the master cylinder. But this leaves that one port on the stock distribution block open so it needs to be plugged.
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51coronet
Posted 2017-09-13 11:59 PM (#548327 - in reply to #548206)
Subject: Re: Brake Plugs


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Ok Thanks Powerflite. Figured I had something wrapped around my head wrong.
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BigBlockMopar
Posted 2017-09-14 2:14 PM (#548377 - in reply to #548206)
Subject: Re: Brake Plugs



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Location: Netherlands
When you get a Line-lock installation kit through Summit, you'll get a nice carboard tube with several pre-made brake lines in them, and a bag of a number of assorted fittings and plugs.
Never needed anything else during a couple of disc brake conversions.

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Powerflite
Posted 2017-09-14 2:32 PM (#548379 - in reply to #548206)
Subject: Re: Brake Plugs



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Posts: 3303
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Location: So. California
What do the ends of those plugs look like?
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springsweptwing
Posted 2017-09-14 3:23 PM (#548384 - in reply to #548379)
Subject: Re: Brake Plugs



Elite Veteran

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Location: Blackpool, United Kingdom.
Nathan , do you have a old torqueflite knocking about? There are a few different sizes of tapered plugs on there that may do the job?
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Powerflite
Posted 2017-09-14 4:17 PM (#548389 - in reply to #548206)
Subject: Re: Brake Plugs



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Posts: 3303
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Location: So. California
727's, yes, but no extra torqueflites.
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jboymechanic
Posted 2017-09-20 9:50 AM (#548776 - in reply to #548206)
Subject: Re: Brake Plugs



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Posts: 1009
1000
Location: Muskego, WI
Nathan, I emailed you 2 pictures of the plugs I've used from Summit, did you get them?
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Powerflite
Posted 2017-09-20 10:36 AM (#548784 - in reply to #548206)
Subject: RE: Brake Plugs



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Posts: 3303
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Location: So. California
Yes I did. Thank you. These Earl plugs look much better. I will give them a try the next time I make a Summit purchase.



(EarlsPlug.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments EarlsPlug.jpg (50KB - 1 downloads)
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1960fury
Posted 2017-09-20 2:17 PM (#548803 - in reply to #548206)
Subject: Re: Brake Plugs



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Posts: 4754
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Location: northern germany
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Gaskets-Copper-Flare-Rings-5-16-Improves-th...
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1960fury
Posted 2017-09-21 8:27 AM (#548849 - in reply to #548206)
Subject: Re: Brake Plugs



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Posts: 4754
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Location: northern germany
whoops wrong size, here 3/16"

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Gaskets-Copper-Flare-Rings-3-16-Improves-th...
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Powerflite
Posted 2017-09-21 9:33 AM (#548855 - in reply to #548849)
Subject: Re: Brake Plugs



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Posts: 3303
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Location: So. California
Interesting. I have never seen those before. Thanks for posting the link.
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