The Forward Look Network
The Forward Look Network
Search | Statistics | User Listing Forums | Chat | eBay | Calendars | Albums | Skins | Language
You are logged in as a guest. ( logon | register )

20w 50 motor oil
Jump to page : 1
Now viewing page 1 [50 messages per page]
View previous thread :: View next thread
   Forward Look Technical Discussions -> Engine, Exhaust, Fuel and IgnitionMessage format
 
johnnybiz
Posted 2017-09-20 10:49 AM (#548786)
Subject: 20w 50 motor oil


Veteran

Posts: 174
1002525
Has anyone tries the shell x100 20w 50 motor oil in there car , i have a 58 chrysler im looking for a good motor oil with zinc in it
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Mopar1
Posted 2017-09-20 11:42 AM (#548791 - in reply to #548786)
Subject: Re: 20w 50 motor oil



Expert

Posts: 3027
2000100025
Location: N.W. Fla.
Basically if it is SM or SN it has no zinc. Look for pre-SM, like SF oil.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
57chizler
Posted 2017-09-20 1:13 PM (#548796 - in reply to #548791)
Subject: Re: 20w 50 motor oil



Expert

Posts: 3768
200010005001001002525
Location: NorCal
Shell X100 Classic.

https://www.shellx100oil.com/

Edited by 57chizler 2017-09-20 1:14 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Greg P.
Posted 2017-09-20 1:52 PM (#548800 - in reply to #548786)
Subject: RE: 20w 50 motor oil



Elite Veteran

Posts: 769
5001001002525
Location: Oley, PA
Has anyone tried the Hemmings branded oils? I haven't tried them myself. I'm just curious as they seem to offer what we've been looking for. for the OP, they offer a 20w50 and even a 15w50 full synthetic.

https://www.hemmings.com/classic-oil

Regarding oil choice... this seems to be the one single topic that can break down into insults and flame wars and I don't want to start that.

I've done a lot of reading on the subject of oil and zinc, ZDDP, etc. What I have found is for everyone who claims to have the answer, there is someone who claims they are full of it. bobistheoilguy.com is a great place if you really want to get in the weeds on this topic.

That said, here's my take based on what I've read and experienced:

1. Modern low oils (anything after SJ?), have a reduced ZDDP content that can result in cam lobe wear in older cars with flat tappets. That seems to be an agreed-upon fact. The parts that are not universally agreed-upon, is: How serious is this issue?.. And what to do about it?

2. The cam wear problem seems to occur most often on cars with high-lift cams, higher than stock valve spring pressures, and most critically seem to occur at or soon after engine break-in, following a rebuild.

3. Wiped cam lobes occurred long before the low-zinc oils appeared. This is an obvious statement, but it makes it impossible to "prove" that any particular worn cam was caused by low-zinc oil and not some other cause.

4. There is some evidence that engines with stock cams and valve spring pressures are not nearly as likely to see this problem.

5. There is some evidence that an older engine that had good ZDDP oil, at least for a time, can run fine with reduced amounts, as the ZDDP has already done it's job.

6. There are literally millions of flat-tappet cars currently operating on modern low-zinc oils and there hasn't been a massive wave of wiped cams overloading all the engine rebuilders. Yes, there have been some, but nothing that seems to say this is a crisis of epic proportion.

7. There are a lot of very conflicting opinions on the use of additives. Some say they are great and some say they are useless. There is at least some scientific basis that too much ZDDP can cause harm.

8. There are also some conflicting opinions on the use of diesel engine oils in gasoline engines. Most people have had good results, but some say the high ash content can create sludge if not changed frequently.

9. The chemical analysis guys on bobistheoilguy.com are generally very negative about pretty much all Lucas oil products.

10. Racing oils typically don't contain much in the way of detergents as they are intended to be changed after every race.

Personally, I've been using regular name brand oil (usually Castrol 10w40, but sometimes other brands) in my cars with no ill effects and I've never used any additives. My 1988 Volvo 240 has nearly 300,000 miles on it and keeps plugging along. That tells me something.

That said, I would be interested in using an oil in my FL cars that would best enhance their longevity. The problem is I don't really know which ones are best. It seems very hard to navigate between the fact and the fiction. The Hemmings brand motor oils look interesting to me as they seem to be formulated to "our" needs, but I have no specific knowledge otherwise.

I'd like to know what others think. But, please let's try to keep it civil.

Edited by Greg P. 2017-09-20 1:55 PM




(Hemmings 20w50.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments Hemmings 20w50.jpg (14KB - 115 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
johnnybiz
Posted 2017-09-20 4:46 PM (#548811 - in reply to #548786)
Subject: RE: 20w 50 motor oil


Veteran

Posts: 174
1002525
what would be better to run sae 30 or 20w 50 in 354 poly
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Shep
Posted 2017-09-20 4:58 PM (#548814 - in reply to #548811)
Subject: Re: 20w 50 motor oil



Expert

Posts: 3393
20001000100100100252525
Location: Chestertown, NY ( near Lake George)
I ran straight 30w in my 55 Chrysler, with Gm oil supplement, stock rebuilt engine, same for a 59 Dodge, neither engine has experienced issues to this date , about 8-10 years. I believe that the Zddp issue is not too critical in a stock cam, stock engine, particularly after it was broken in. Most opinions and info on this subject are anecdotal. There a website where shear tests were done on a lot of oil brands using a fairly scientific method, some surprising results. Long site, read down. https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/2013/06/20/motor-oil-wear-test-rank...

Edited by Shep 2017-09-20 7:18 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Greg P.
Posted 2017-09-20 6:49 PM (#548820 - in reply to #548814)
Subject: Re: 20w 50 motor oil



Elite Veteran

Posts: 769
5001001002525
Location: Oley, PA
Shep - 2017-09-20 4:58 PM
I ran straight 30w in my 55 Chrysler, with Gm oil supplement, stock rebuilt engine, same for a 59 Dodge, neither engine has experienced issues to this date , about 8-10 years. I believe that the Zddp issue is not too critical in a stock cam, stock engine, particularly after it was broken in. Most opinions and info on this subject are anecdotal. There a website where shears tests were done on a lot of oil brands using a fairly scientific method, some surprising results. Long site, read down. https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/2013/06/20/motor-oil-wear-test-rank...


That link is a very long, but interesting read. I read it when it was first posted around 2013 I think. The author seems to know what he is talking about and has spent a lot of time and effort putting his data together and it's nice to see that his results have been updated this year. In fairness, I should mention that it's been posted in many blogs where a good number of seemingly knowledgeable people have raised rather serious questions about the relevance of his testing methods. I don't have enough knowledge to know who is right or wrong in this case. I wish I did. In any case, he hasn't tested the Shell X-100 or the Hemmings products.

For the Shell X-100, I see they have Wayne Carini doing an endorsement. I'm not sure how much that means, but I'd assume that if it was total crap he wouldn't stand behind it. One annoying thing is the X-100 seems to be available only in 5-quart cans. Don't all of our FL cars take 6-quarts with the filter? I drive my FL cars less than 2000 miles annually and I typically change my oil once a year. I'd rather buy the amount I'm going to use. The Hemmings products come in 6-quart cases which seems a lot smarter.

Edited by Greg P. 2017-09-20 6:51 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
FwdLk56
Posted 2017-09-20 11:35 PM (#548831 - in reply to #548820)
Subject: Re: 20w 50 motor oil


20002525
Location: Indiana
Greg P. - 2017-09-20 6:49 PM
For the Shell X-100, I see they have Wayne Carini doing an endorsement. I'm not sure how much that means, but I'd assume that if it was total crap he wouldn't stand behind it.


endorsements don't mean a d@mn thing...
for one, i don't have a d@mn clue who "Wayne Carini" is, NEVER heard the name, nor can i claim to even "care" who he is...

an endorsement means NOTHING to me...
don't care if it's Michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant trying to tell me what shoe or underwear to buy...
or if it's some never-heard name like "Wayne Carini" trying to tell me what oil to buy...
Top of the page Bottom of the page
56D500boy
Posted 2017-09-20 11:59 PM (#548832 - in reply to #548831)
Subject: Re: 20w 50 motor oil



Expert 5K+

Posts: 9855
5000200020005001001001002525
Location: Lower Mainland BC
FwdLk56 - 2017-09-20 11:35 PM
I don't have a d@mn clue who "Wayne Carini" is, NEVER heard the name, nor can i claim to even "care" who he is...


Guess you don't watch any TV or have policy with Hagerty.

"Long before Wayne Carini entered the public eye as the host of Chasing Classic Cars on Velocity, he was already an accomplished car restorer with decades of experience. He grew up working alongside his father on pre-war American classics like Packard, Ford, and Duesenberg, and his fascination with European sports cars began with a ride in a 1960 Ferrari 250 SWB when he was nine.

Carini has made a life out buying, selling, and restoring (or preserving) classic cars. Recently we spent some time with him at his home in Connecticut, chatting about cars, life, and the future of his TV show."

REFERENCE: https://www.hagerty.com/articles-videos/articles/2017/09/19/wayne-ca...

Top of the page Bottom of the page
BigBlockMopar
Posted 2017-09-21 2:06 PM (#548875 - in reply to #548786)
Subject: Re: 20w 50 motor oil



Expert

Posts: 3575
20001000500252525
Location: Netherlands
We could do without the supersized image distorting, but here's my take on this;

The majority of stock, old engines will live without zinc in the modern oils.
Any engine that has an upgraded cam and/or valve springs, the proper amount of zinc-additive becomes important.

My own daily driven '73 Dart with its mid '80 318cui flat tappet engine is currently running on a 0w20 synthetic oil with an API rating of SN, ment for hybrid cars.
Had my car on a chassis dyno recently for 7 runs of max power measurements as well.
Oil pressure is perfect. No ticking, nothing.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
FwdLk56
Posted 2017-09-21 11:27 PM (#548923 - in reply to #548832)
Subject: Re: 20w 50 motor oil


20002525
Location: Indiana
56D500boy - 2017-09-20 11:59 PM
Guess you don't watch any TV or have policy with Hagerty.


correct on both counts...
and i don't feel like i'm missin' a d@ng thing

(long live NETFLIX...)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
58coupe
Posted 2017-09-22 9:51 AM (#548937 - in reply to #548786)
Subject: Re: 20w 50 motor oil



Expert

Posts: 1739
100050010010025
Location: Alaska
I don't want to open up another can of worms by discussing zinc additives pro or con. I do suggest you run a lighter weight of oil in your street engine. 20-50 is used in racing engines that have looser bearing clearances and are run at higher rpm that street engines. It will lower your gas mileage (pumping losses) and, if you only drive your car occasionally, take a little longer to build pressure on a cold start. It is a fact that more wear occurs on a cold start than being driven many miles on the highway. I don't want to sound like I am preaching, do I use 20-50 oil? Yes in my airplane.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Greg P.
Posted 2017-09-22 11:07 AM (#548943 - in reply to #548923)
Subject: Re: 20w 50 motor oil



Elite Veteran

Posts: 769
5001001002525
Location: Oley, PA
FwdLk56 - 2017-09-21 11:27 PM

56D500boy - 2017-09-20 11:59 PM
Guess you don't watch any TV or have policy with Hagerty.


correct on both counts...
and i don't feel like i'm missin' a d@ng thing

(long live NETFLIX...)


You aren't missing much! That's for sure. Most of the reality TV car shows are pure crap. The same contrived low-budget formula repeated over and over. I think it started with American Chopper and has been exploited first by Discovery, and now by Velocity. Mostly the focus is on the drama and the personalities and little on how they actually fix up the cars, yet the always seem to do it magically by the end of a 30 minute show.

The only ones I actually enjoy do any degree are Wheeler Dealers and Chasing Classic Cars.

Wheeler Dealers was great because of Edd China. Each show spent a fair amount of time actually going through specific technical problems and fixes, in at least some detail. I was bummed to hear that Edd recently left show in a dispute where Velocity wanted to drastically reduce the in-depth coverage of the technical repairs. For the new season, he's been replaced.

Chasing Classic Cars is interesting to me because it departs from "the formula" at least to some degree. There is less focus on personalities and contrived crisis. And any episode with Roger Barr, their 80-year old mechanic is a treat. Roger is the real deal, and also he was a formula car driver back in the 60s. I suppose you could say Wayne Carini is a bit of a car snob as he tends to focus on high-dollar cars like the Cobras, Ferraris, and the Pebble Beach crowd in general. On the other hand, he seems to truly appreciate all types of vintage cars including a lot of prewar cars. Also he seems to know what is doing.

I didn't mean to hijack this thread completely. I only wanted say that in general, celebrity endorsements mean nothing to me. There are some exceptions, and in this case I think Wayne Carini has a fairly good reputation for doing things right. So at the very minimum, I feel like he wouldn't endorse a product that he knew was crap. Of course, I could be wrong. He could just be all about the money. Take it for what it is.

The one thing I think is weird is that the Shell X-100 is only offered in two formulas: SAE 30 and 20w50. If I were going to use this product, I do not know which one would be better. I know our cars originally specified SAE 30, but also I've always been under the belief that a multigrade oil is pretty much always a better choice than a straight weight oil, at least for car engines that operate over a range of temperatures. The idea is that in a cold engine startup, the multigrade oil would offer better protection as it's not as thick as the straight weight when cold. Is there any case where that would not be true?

On the other hand, the 20w50 seems to be on the heavy side. Now when I was younger, the crowd I hung out with always held to the belief that viscosity was king, and heavier oils always offered better protection than thinner oils. Also, the general thought was that older engines with bigger clearances would benefit the most from a high viscosity oil such as 20w50.

Nowadays, it seems that many people have adopted a different philosophy, the idea being you should run the lowest viscosity oil that you can that will still provide good oil consistent pressure. I know of at least some vintage car owners who are using 0w20 and 0w30 synthetic oils and have reported good results.

All of this leaves me very confused. As a result, I've just stuck to what has worked for me and I have been using name brand 10w40, without any additional additives in my vintage cars. Since I only change my oil about once a year, I'd be willing to spend more money on a product if I had some confidence that it was actually better.

I'm very interested to know what the other members of this forum are using.




Top of the page Bottom of the page
wizard
Posted 2017-09-22 11:55 AM (#548952 - in reply to #548786)
Subject: Re: 20w 50 motor oil



Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+

Posts: 13042
500050002000100025
Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island
I've used straight 30 oil with extra ZDDP for 10 years now - the engine is totally free from sludge and the cam looks like new.

I'm puzzled to why people run multigrade oil when the clasic cars are not (normally) used during the Winter season
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Chrispy
Posted 2017-12-29 12:50 AM (#555148 - in reply to #548786)
Subject: Re: 20w 50 motor oil



Extreme Veteran

Posts: 520
500
Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado
Mobile 1 0-40w is a good option, 1100ppm of zinc and readily available. Mobil 1 15w-50 is 1300ppm if you prefer the thicker stuff. Personally ill be running 0w-40 in my 392.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
BigBlockMopar
Posted 2017-12-29 10:17 AM (#555166 - in reply to #548786)
Subject: Re: 20w 50 motor oil



Expert

Posts: 3575
20001000500252525
Location: Netherlands
Sven, the 'issue' with straight oils is that they get thinner and thinner the hotter they get.
Multigrade oils, and even more Synthetic oils can counteract the thinning (up to a degree) and maintain better oil pressure/lubrication at higher temperatures.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
mstrug
Posted 2017-12-29 10:32 AM (#555168 - in reply to #548786)
Subject: Re: 20w 50 motor oil



Expert 5K+

Posts: 6487
50001000100100100100252525
Location: Newark, Texas (Fort Worth)
http://www.hdmworld.com/lube-brad_penn.htm

Top of the page Bottom of the page
wizard
Posted 2017-12-29 10:55 AM (#555174 - in reply to #555166)
Subject: Re: 20w 50 motor oil



Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+

Posts: 13042
500050002000100025
Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island
BigBlockMopar - 2017-12-29 4:17 PM

Sven, the 'issue' with straight oils is that they get thinner and thinner the hotter they get.
Multigrade oils, and even more Synthetic oils can counteract the thinning (up to a degree) and maintain better oil pressure/lubrication at higher temperatures.


For me that's an enigma, perhaps even hypothetically Herman, because I see that the oil pressere gets higher when the Engine is hot and runs at highway speed, while when I used the multigrade oil, the oil pressure was lower when the Engine was hot and the oil sounded like water when it was sunning down the gallery into the oil pan when the Engine was shut down.

It might well be, that the old 383 which has never been renovated has larger bearing lashes than a new renovated Engine or a more modern Engine.

Also, I never run more than 5000 kilometers before changing the oil, when the oil has done 5000 kilometers, then I can notice a slight drop in the oil pressure.

In older Engines with more blow-by than modern Engines, the oil must be changed with more frequent intervalls than modern or newly renovated Engines.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
1960fury
Posted 2017-12-29 3:44 PM (#555198 - in reply to #548786)
Subject: Re: 20w 50 motor oil



Expert 5K+

Posts: 7385
50002000100100100252525
Location: northern germany
as a teenager i use to make oil changes daily, working in a garage. the mineral oil turns into water like fluid when hot (regardless of weight) while the synthetics always remains slippery between you fingers. i used to pump the oil directly from large oil drums from an oustside shed, outside of the shop, into the crankcases. there was a mineral oil drum and a synthetic oil dum. on cold winter days the mineral oil pump always blew the fuses and you couldn't pump the oil out. i changed pumps from synth to mineral, still the same. no problems with synthetic oil. ever since i was sold on synthetic oil.

its a known fact that most engine wear occurs during cold starts and its also a known fact that with synth oil you get oil pressure faster, its also a known fact that synth oil reduces wear by reducing friction. there is a measurable HP gain just by switching to synthetic! also, synthetic oil was introduced in the 60s for cars that used mineral oils. there is absolutely no reason not to use it in a vintage mopar V8 (this is what the guys at mopar performance insured me too).
next march i own my 60 fury for 30 years, use to run it daily, never did run a drop mineral oil, only 0w40, up to this day it still runs like new and never caused any problems whatsoever, perfect oil pressure, no noises, have it regularly (up to this day) to speeds exceeding 140mph.

Edited by 1960fury 2017-12-29 3:47 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
mstrug
Posted 2017-12-29 8:42 PM (#555218 - in reply to #548786)
Subject: Re: 20w 50 motor oil



Expert 5K+

Posts: 6487
50001000100100100100252525
Location: Newark, Texas (Fort Worth)
Don't the AmesOil people have a synthetic? Might want to check them out too.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Jump to page : 1
Now viewing page 1 [50 messages per page]
Jump to forum :
Search this forum
Printer friendly version
E-mail a link to this thread

* * * This site contains affiliate links for which we may be compensated * * *


(Delete all cookies set by this site)