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57 Firesweep 2D HT; $45k
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drosera88
Posted 2017-11-26 11:15 AM (#553164)
Subject: 57 Firesweep 2D HT; $45k



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Pretty car, pretty expensive. Frame off restoration with 'updated' features; front disks, aftermarket AC, alternator, etc. Not sure if it's worth $45000....

https://austin.craigslist.org/cto/d/1957-desoto-firesweep/6400774574.html

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mikes2nd
Posted 2017-11-26 11:42 AM (#553169 - in reply to #553164)
Subject: Re: 57 Firesweep 2D HT; $45k


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that's a nice frickin car... how many do you find? lots for 20k?30k?

not in that shape...
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GregCon
Posted 2017-11-26 11:53 AM (#553170 - in reply to #553169)
Subject: Re: 57 Firesweep 2D HT; $45k



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You guys are slipping...that car is the one done by a member here. It's been well discussed and if you choose you can go read the old threads to see the work that was done on it.
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2017-11-26 12:41 PM (#553173 - in reply to #553170)
Subject: Re: 57 Firesweep 2D HT; $45k



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Most similar-condition cars cost a similar amount to restore. To purchase
and restore a Fireflite would probably cost a similar amount as it would to
do the same with a Firesweep. What you end up with are two totally different
cars to some people, but to others, the two are one and the same. I fail to
understand the latter perspective, as I have owned dozens of both and it is
like comparing a Pinto to a Lincoln. Sure, both are FOMOCO made, and have
some things in common, but the level of plush and styling are worlds apart.
I can see a well restored/refurbished (my word for a restoration with "updates")
Fireflite being a $45K car. Not so much with the vastly more common Sweep.

Granted, they will both cost a similar cash commitment to make nice again.
What's it worth ? I guess the guy who buys it will be the one to determine
that number. But to this picky DeSoto guy, no matter how nice it might be
made to be, it is still terminally a short wheel base, Dodge-based car with
a disagreable front end that could never measure up to the similar, but real
DeSoto. To others, those differences really don't matter.
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mikes2nd
Posted 2017-11-26 3:07 PM (#553185 - in reply to #553164)
Subject: Re: 57 Firesweep 2D HT; $45k


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Your a sweep hater
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Paul Hettick
Posted 2017-11-26 4:05 PM (#553188 - in reply to #553164)
Subject: Re: 57 Firesweep 2D HT; $45k


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That car has your name on it Doc.
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1960fury
Posted 2017-11-26 5:48 PM (#553193 - in reply to #553164)
Subject: Re: 57 Firesweep 2D HT; $45k



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i always prefered the 57/58 sweeps over the "senior" models. much nicer front end.
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Mike McCandless
Posted 2017-11-26 7:13 PM (#553197 - in reply to #553164)
Subject: Re: 57 Firesweep 2D HT; $45k


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It sold on eBay for considerably less right?
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2017-11-26 9:01 PM (#553202 - in reply to #553197)
Subject: Re: 57 Firesweep 2D HT; $45k



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I guess you Dodge-being-passed-off-as-a-DeSoto guys are the target
market this seller is looking for. Only $45K !!! Just write a cheque !
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mikes2nd
Posted 2017-11-26 9:09 PM (#553203 - in reply to #553197)
Subject: Re: 57 Firesweep 2D HT; $45k


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ahe said it was a members here who has a restore thread.

Mike McCandless - 2017-11-26 7:13 PM It sold on eBay for considerably less right?

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1960fury
Posted 2017-11-27 1:43 PM (#553239 - in reply to #553202)
Subject: Re: 57 Firesweep 2D HT; $45k



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Doctor DeSoto - 2017-11-26 9:01 PM

I guess you Dodge-being-passed-off-as-a-DeSoto guys are the target
market this seller is looking for. Only $45K !!! Just write a cheque ! :laugh:


nothing wrong with dodge but as these have the desoto roofline and not the plymouth/dodge roofline for me it is clearly a desoto.
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dstratton
Posted 2017-11-27 5:15 PM (#553253 - in reply to #553164)
Subject: Re: 57 Firesweep 2D HT; $45k


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This car was offered on Ebay with a buy it now in the low 30s in the last month. It expired unsold. The seller did not entertain my offers nor did he counter... Being what it is I was thinking it would be well sold for 17.5k and well bought at 16k. No clue what makes the seller think this car is worth any where near what he is asking. I guess it is the bigger fool theory. I was only willing to offer him what I offered since the car is local and I could go lay my baby blues on it before sending a check.
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mikes2nd
Posted 2017-11-27 8:14 PM (#553260 - in reply to #553164)
Subject: Re: 57 Firesweep 2D HT; $45k


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16k is a low ball offer, c'mon be serious. Show me how many are for sale at that range that nice?

aside from this there are only 2 other desotos for sale and they are both 1959's... 30k and 44k

 

jeeze i know i get angry when i off a reasonable price of 20k for say a convertible adventurer completely restored and they guy says no... man that seller was a real dummy!

 



Edited by mikes2nd 2017-11-27 10:06 PM
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56D500boy
Posted 2017-11-27 10:50 PM (#553269 - in reply to #553202)
Subject: Re: 57 Firesweep 2D HT; $45k



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Doctor DeSoto - 2017-11-26 9:01 PM I guess you Dodge-being-passed-off-as-a-DeSoto guys are the target
market this seller is looking for. Only $45K !!! Just write a cheque ! :laugh:


Seriously? The level of anti-Firesweep snobbery that is being displayed is disgusting. Furthermore, I am guessing that the lower cost Firesweep probably saved Desotos and the Chyrsler Corp's ass during those lean mid-late-50's years.

Based on what I have now read in a previous Desoto Firesweep post ( http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=25497&... ), there is a lot of pure Desoto in a Firesweep. Sure the frame and engine, etc. are Dodge but really what does that matter? Is there still a hierarchy ("my car is better than your car") at play, after all these years? IF so, that is just stupid.

Here on the FL forum, we are all FL owners or at least "likers" of the 55-61 Chrysler Corporation product lines. Sure, we all will like some 55-61 Mopar/Chryco cars more than others but at the end of the day, we should realize that we are all brothers and sisters of the Exner clan and we should applaud, cheer and generally congratulate anybody who has taken the time and money to keep a Forward Look car alive and away from the rust-worms and the 50 tonne crushers and whole car shredders. We shouldn't be making fun of any of these cars because they are deemed for some reason to be lower class citizens.



By the way, I think that Firesweep (ad now deleted by the owner) is beautiful. Maybe not $45K beautiful but beautiful.



Edited by 56D500boy 2017-11-28 9:35 AM




(57FireSweep.jpg)



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Attachments 57FireSweep.jpg (108KB - 144 downloads)
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1960fury
Posted 2017-11-28 9:29 AM (#553289 - in reply to #553164)
Subject: Re: 57 Firesweep 2D HT; $45k



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it is a BEAUTIFUL car. i don't like red, especially not that orange red but those who fail to see the beauty in this car should leave the fl hobby!
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57burb
Posted 2017-11-28 9:53 AM (#553292 - in reply to #553253)
Subject: Re: 57 Firesweep 2D HT; $45k



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dstratton - 2017-11-27 4:15 PM

This car was offered on Ebay with a buy it now in the low 30s in the last month. It expired unsold. The seller did not entertain my offers nor did he counter... Being what it is I was thinking it would be well sold for 17.5k and well bought at 16k. No clue what makes the seller think this car is worth any where near what he is asking. I guess it is the bigger fool theory. I was only willing to offer him what I offered since the car is local and I could go lay my baby blues on it before sending a check.


16k? Surely you are not a serious buyer with a ridiculous offer like that. This car sold for $14k - in barely running condition - three years ago.

http://forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=50811

So I guess all the floor repair and body work, rebuilding of the suspension, steering, brake, and fuel systems, paint and chrome, putting a complete interior in it, and dialing it in for roadworthiness is worth about ... 2 grand.

Nobody plans to get rich building these cars, but if you think someone is going to just give away all this work for nothing, you're wrong. Here is a progress thread that shows this Firesweep will be a VERY solid and reliable driver.

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/1957-desoto-firesweep.86...

Got any cars you want to restore for me for free? I'll buy all of them you're willing to sell.

Edited by 57burb 2017-11-28 10:03 AM
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2017-11-28 10:26 AM (#553294 - in reply to #553269)
Subject: Re: 57 Firesweep 2D HT; $45k



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56D500boy - 2017-11-28 7:50 PM

Doctor DeSoto - 2017-11-26 9:01 PM I guess you Dodge-being-passed-off-as-a-DeSoto guys are the target
market this seller is looking for. Only $45K !!! Just write a cheque ! :laugh:


Seriously? The level of anti-Firesweep snobbery that is being displayed is disgusting.
.... there is a lot of pure Desoto in a Firesweep. Sure the frame and engine, etc. are Dodge but really what does that matter? ("my car is better than your car") that is just stupid.

We shouldn't be making fun of any of these cars because they are deemed for some reason to be lower class citizens.

By the way, I think that Firesweep (ad now deleted by the owner) is beautiful. Maybe not $45K beautiful but beautiful.



==========================================

Remove the interior, roof and rear body sheetmetal, and front bumper,
and a Firesweep is ALL Dodge. In other words, 15% DeSoto material,
85% Dodge. But it isn't about whose stuff is what. It is about design.
The Dodge design worked as a homogenous unit, as did the DeSoto.
And maybe to some people, a mix-n-match bag of parts is perfectly
good too. Is that disgusting, stupid, slutty, ? I do not apply concepts
like that to design or the people involved. It isn't something personal.

So, the bottom line, aside from the personalized insults, is the question:
"... really, what does it matter ?"

If design is your thing. If design is WHY a person is into these cars.
If design trumps all other aspects of attraction to Forward Look cars,
then by golly, you nailed it ! All these differences DO matter, and speaking
just for myself, the 57-58 DeSoto ranks as one of the best design packages
Exner and Mopar tossed together. Cobbed up, mix-n-match parts salad
cars, even if factory built, just look like cobbed up parts salad. Pretty
simple, really. If none of this matters to others, by all means, you get
the prize. Because finding a Firesweep is 100x easier than finding a
similar Fireflite or Adventurer. And if those oversized, bugeye headlights,
with the absurd Groucho Marx eyebrows are OK with you, then go for it,
Amigo. Enjoy that spartan interior, those anemic brakes, and everything
else that "really isn't that different". No one is keeping you from spouting
off your opinions. But it is OK for you to jump all over others for speaking
theirs ?
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56D500boy
Posted 2017-11-28 11:16 AM (#553296 - in reply to #553294)
Subject: Re: 57 Firesweep 2D HT; $45k



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Doctor DeSoto - 2017-11-28 10:26 AM No one is keeping you from spouting off your opinions. But it is OK for you to jump all over others for speaking
theirs ?


Not "others". Just you and yours. Primarily because, to me, your opinions come off as being "racist". If one substitutes "White" for Desoto and "African American" for Dodge, a mixed race 85% African American/15% white isn't really a person to you. Likewise a 85% (which I would dispute but I don't care that much) Dodge/15% Desoto isn't an Exner Forward Look car worthy of any status.

Going further, your car, a "57-58 DeSoto" is apparently member of the superior race and all others, including any other 55-61 FL car, are just plain sh*t.

I don't think so.

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mikes2nd
Posted 2017-11-28 11:20 AM (#553297 - in reply to #553164)
Subject: Re: 57 Firesweep 2D HT; $45k


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the guy did it right.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmwdynA1Qsk

Rudy's Paint and Body, Mangum Rd. & Hardway St., Houston, TX 77092, 713 688-0624
Custom Polish & Chrome Plating, 424 Hill Rd, Houston, TX 77037, 832 770-4925
Advanced Auto Trim, 2612 Little York Rd., Houston, TX 77093, 713 694-5528

The project took about 7 months & more $$ than I'll admit to complete as follows:

02/15/14 CAR ARRIVED FROM IOWA
02/28/14 COMPLETED ENGINE REPAIRS
03/26/14 STARTED FLOOR REPAIRS
04/11/14 COMPLETED FLOOR REPAIRS -16 DAYS
04/13/14 INSTALLED NEW EXHAUST SYSTEM
04/29/14 COMPLETED BRAKE REPAIRS
04/29/14 STARTED BODY & PAINT WORK
05/27/14 STARTED CHROME PLATING WORK
06/26/14 COMPLETED CHROME PLATING WORK – 30 DAYS
07/08/14 COMPLETED BODY & PAINT WORK – 70 DAYS
08/01/14 COMPLETED A/C INSTALLATION
08/10/14 COMPLETED INSTALLATION OF NEW GAS TANK AND 12 VDC PUMP
08/19/14 COMPLETED FRONT SUSPENSION REBUILD
08/27/14 STARTED UPHOLSTERY WORK
09/06/14 COMPLETED UPHOLSTERY WORK -10 DAYS
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57burb
Posted 2017-11-28 11:49 AM (#553299 - in reply to #553296)
Subject: Re: 57 Firesweep 2D HT; $45k



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56D500boy - 2017-11-28 10:16 AM

Doctor DeSoto - 2017-11-28 10:26 AM No one is keeping you from spouting off your opinions. But it is OK for you to jump all over others for speaking
theirs ?


Not "others". Just you and yours. Primarily because, to me, your opinions come off as being "racist". If one substitutes "White" for Desoto and "African American" for Dodge, a mixed race 85% African American/15% white isn't really a person to you. Likewise a 85% (which I would dispute but I don't care that much) Dodge/15% Desoto isn't an Exner Forward Look car worthy of any status.

Going further, your car, a "57-58 DeSoto" is apparently member of the superior race and all others, including any other 55-61 FL car, are just plain sh*t.

I don't think so.

:)


Whoa... you are WAY over the line dude. Where the hell do you get racism out of old car opinions? You should really delete that post, it's incredibly offensive.
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jboymechanic
Posted 2017-11-28 1:25 PM (#553306 - in reply to #553294)
Subject: Re: 57 Firesweep 2D HT; $45k



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==========================================

Remove the interior, roof and rear body sheetmetal, and front bumper,
and a Firesweep is ALL Dodge. In other words, 15% DeSoto material,
85% Dodge. But it isn't about whose stuff is what. It is about design.
The Dodge design worked as a homogenous unit, as did the DeSoto.
And maybe to some people, a mix-n-match bag of parts is perfectly
good too. Is that disgusting, stupid, slutty, ? I do not apply concepts
like that to design or the people involved. It isn't something personal.

So, the bottom line, aside from the personalized insults, is the question:
"... really, what does it matter ?"

If design is your thing. If design is WHY a person is into these cars.
If design trumps all other aspects of attraction to Forward Look cars,
then by golly, you nailed it ! All these differences DO matter, and speaking
just for myself, the 57-58 DeSoto ranks as one of the best design packages
Exner and Mopar tossed together. Cobbed up, mix-n-match parts salad
cars, even if factory built, just look like cobbed up parts salad. Pretty
simple, really. If none of this matters to others, by all means, you get
the prize. Because finding a Firesweep is 100x easier than finding a
similar Fireflite or Adventurer. And if those oversized, bugeye headlights,
with the absurd Groucho Marx eyebrows are OK with you, then go for it,
Amigo. Enjoy that spartan interior, those anemic brakes, and everything
else that "really isn't that different". No one is keeping you from spouting
off your opinions. But it is OK for you to jump all over others for speaking
theirs ?


Couldn't the exact same thing could be said about a DeSoto compared to a Chrysler? Isn't a DeSoto just a dressed-down Chrysler? Slightly different fenders, trim, tail lights and so on?
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Powerflite
Posted 2017-11-28 2:41 PM (#553311 - in reply to #553164)
Subject: Re: 57 Firesweep 2D HT; $45k



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In theory yes, but in reality no. The DeSoto design was completed before the Chrysler design so it is mostly an original design concept. But that doesn't deter my love of the Chrysler design either.

Personally, I like the '58 Firesweep design much better than the '57. The Dodge front just doesn't work as well with a large single headlight. Put 2 headlights on there like on the '58 Firesweep and it works much better for me.



(58FiresweepVert.jpg)



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1960fury
Posted 2017-11-28 2:47 PM (#553313 - in reply to #553294)
Subject: Re: 57 Firesweep 2D HT; $45k



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Doctor DeSoto - 2017-11-28 10:26 AM


Remove the interior, roof and rear body sheetmetal, and front bumper,
and a Firesweep is ALL Dodge. In other words, 15% DeSoto material,
85% Dodge.


or remove the badges and brightwork from a desoto and its all chrysler... in other words 99% chrysler material and 1% desoto. maybe the sweeps are the only true desotos?

Edited by 1960fury 2017-11-28 3:14 PM
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57burb
Posted 2017-11-28 3:10 PM (#553316 - in reply to #553313)
Subject: Re: 57 Firesweep 2D HT; $45k



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If you want to get down to it, these cars are ALL about 85% the same as each other, exactly as Chrysler intended them to be.

The only cars that are truly "different" from the rest are the Imperials.
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drosera88
Posted 2017-11-28 4:18 PM (#553319 - in reply to #553164)
Subject: Re: 57 Firesweep 2D HT; $45k



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Wow. Didn't think this thread would explode the way it did....
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mikes2nd
Posted 2017-11-28 4:47 PM (#553323 - in reply to #553164)
Subject: Re: 57 Firesweep 2D HT; $45k


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We keep it real on fwl.net
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matte
Posted 2017-11-28 5:05 PM (#553325 - in reply to #553164)
Subject: Re: 57 Firesweep 2D HT; $45k



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I don't understand the bashing that Dodge's get or even other lower end Chryslers. So they are at the bottom scale, BFD! I pretty much like the whole family of the Chrysler family and not just USA or just FL cars.. I like the 60's and 70's Chrysler family of cars as well.

I'm pretty sure "design" would be everyones mindset when deciding on what car they like. Design covers absolutely everything on a car, from body to mechanical to interior.. Even if not a car guy but just an investor, they still go by design as such.

Some people just think because they spend huge bucks on whatever car then that's what it's worth but we all know if you bought a 70's 4 door Datsun and spent $20K, it's still not worth $20 to anyone else.

But I guess the $ amount has to reflect what the car is... Can't put Fury parts on a Savoy and call it a Fury with a Fury price tag..

But Jeez Dave, you're usually a cool and calm camper..

Edited by matte 2017-11-28 5:39 PM
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1960fury
Posted 2017-11-28 5:32 PM (#553327 - in reply to #553319)
Subject: Re: 57 Firesweep 2D HT; $45k



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drosera88 - 2017-11-28 4:18 PM

Wow. Didn't think this thread would explode the way it did....


yeah, EMOTIONS! nothing is better people that are not in it with heart and soul don't have it. when you're faded, dead and gone theres enough time to be calm and reasonable.

back to ot. face it, these cars were more or less all the same, as has been said, and a plymouth could have been equipped like a chrysler. only imperial was a higher quality, different car. but i prefer the googier, cheap low price cars, never been the "imperial type" and never will be, even if i wanted.
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bbrasse1
Posted 2017-11-28 6:04 PM (#553331 - in reply to #553164)
Subject: Re: 57 Firesweep 2D HT; $45k


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It is amazing how upset people get over comments about preference of one brand over another. I wonder if the Ford fairlane Victoria guys get into like that. ??
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drosera88
Posted 2017-11-28 7:24 PM (#553336 - in reply to #553327)
Subject: Re: 57 Firesweep 2D HT; $45k



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1960fury - 2017-11-28 4:32 PM

drosera88 - 2017-11-28 4:18 PM

Wow. Didn't think this thread would explode the way it did....


yeah, EMOTIONS! nothing is better people that are not in it with heart and soul don't have it. when you're faded, dead and gone theres enough time to be calm and reasonable.

back to ot. face it, these cars were more or less all the same, as has been said, and a plymouth could have been equipped like a chrysler. only imperial was a higher quality, different car. but i prefer the googier, cheap low price cars, never been the "imperial type" and never will be, even if i wanted.


Haha, that's one way to look at it. I have to agree with you on the 'Googie' styling that the 60-61's have; there's nothing else like them out there. It's hard for me to wrap my head around how the 60-61's managed to look so ridiculous and so beautiful at the same time! Not that I don't love the more 'restrained' styling of cars before and since, but I don't think we'll ever see cars like that ever hit showrooms again, and that's what really makes them so special to me.
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Viper Guy
Posted 2017-11-28 8:40 PM (#553340 - in reply to #553164)
Subject: Re: 57 Firesweep 2D HT; $45k



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Hey guys,

As you know I am a proud owner of a '59 Firesweep 4 door sedan that is about as low as one can get regarding DeSotos but it sure changes things when poeple who are not familiar with DeSotos come up to me and ask if it is an Imperial! You may laugh but it's happened more than once. Maybe it's the wire wheels that make the difference? I don't know but........"It's delightful, it's delovely, it's DESOTO"
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1960fury
Posted 2017-11-28 8:42 PM (#553341 - in reply to #553336)
Subject: Re: 57 Firesweep 2D HT; $45k



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drosera88 - 2017-11-28 7:24 PM

Haha, that's one way to look at it. I have to agree with you on the 'Googie' styling that the 60-61's have; there's nothing else like them out there. It's hard for me to wrap my head around how the 60-61's managed to look so ridiculous and so beautiful at the same time! Not that I don't love the more 'restrained' styling of cars before and since, but I don't think we'll ever see cars like that ever hit showrooms again, and that's what really makes them so special to me.


perfectly said. as a kid i always loved the overdrawn US cars in comics or jokes (these cars have always been ridiculed in the german press, even back in the day) and when i saw the 60 plymouth it was love at first sight, crazy wheel openings with a boomerang curve, as if deformed from high speed, boomerang shaped roof posts, sweeping fins almost as high as the roof, giant rear windows, square translucent steering wheels that glow in the dark, wild, angry lookíng eyebrows, etc, the whole car looks eager to go, to eat miles of highway and imports..... but i wouldn't call it ridiculous, i think its cool and typical googie but i do love the cleaner and more restrained cars too. i wouldn't argue if someone calls the 57/58 chrysler coupes the best looking cars of all time, yet, the far out 60/61 furys will always be my favorite cars.

and i know every forwardlooker on the planet, deep in their hearts, they all want a 60 fury, the ultimate fl. my heart goes out to the less fortunate ones, not in possession of a 60 fury, they all have my sympathy.

Edited by 1960fury 2017-11-28 9:16 PM




(006 (1)-min.jpg)



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dstratton
Posted 2017-12-05 4:17 PM (#553757 - in reply to #553164)
Subject: Re: 57 Firesweep 2D HT; $45k


Member

Posts: 12

Yikes, I have been off on a personal matter and missed the doings here. I did not offer 16k; I might have gone that high had the seller engaged in a conversation but he chose not to. I am a serious buyer of FL cars having added a half dozen in the last three years. I am a hobbyist. I never expect to get back from any car I purchase even my initial outlay much less all the loving upgrades I make to it. I note in the thread that no other poster bothered to make an offer of any size on the car and only one offered up an a opinion of a range he felt it might be worth. Over-restoration to a car I intend to drive does not increase value to me as a buyer. Choosing a lesser desirable body style and trim level often does because the entry cost is usually very much lower than the top trim line, largest motor, multiple carbed convertible in resale red. It's sort of the dented can approach to the car hobby. It is unfortunate when sellers and buyers cannot agree on what is a dented can and it can become the source of contention, apparently. My perception of the value of this car is not related to the quality of work performed. If profit were my motive and I bought the thing for 14k from Iowa, I would have asked what minor improvements could be made to make it the nicest 17k car I could and still flip it to make a buck since in my world the car is worth 17.5 tops, irrespective of condition. Doing 35k of work to a 17k car does not make it a 52k car, as I think another poster more eloquently detailed using Pinto and Lincoln as the analogy. A museum some where might put a higher value. All I can do is, without intending to insult a seller, make a bona fide cash offer and see where the chips fall. I was not trying to lowball the guy. In fact, I offered him more than I have ever paid for any car at any time. It was a tough decision but I made the offer. He rejected it. I moved on and merely tried to add to the conversation when the car was listed again, but this time on craig's.
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