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'56 Plymouth Starter/Steering Gear Box Interference
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GaryS
Posted 2017-12-16 8:14 PM (#554438)
Subject: '56 Plymouth Starter/Steering Gear Box Interference



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The starter motor on my 318 Poly engine touches the side of the manual steering gear box, and I'm having difficulty getting enough clearance to accommodate engine movement, so I checked the gear box on my parts car, and it shows wear where it too must have contacted the starter. Since both cars came without a drive train, I don't know what engines they last contained, but by the location of other under-hood items, I think both were small blocks with manual steering.

Years ago, I had a '55 Plymouth with a 270 engine and I don't recall a tight fit in that area.

If anyone has a completely stock installation that they can see easily, would you please let me know how much clearance you have between the starter housing and the gear box?
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DepsilonD
Posted 2017-12-18 11:27 AM (#554539 - in reply to #554438)
Subject: Re: '56 Plymouth Starter/Steering Gear Box Interference



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Gary, I will see if I can get you some info/pictures when I get home.
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GaryS
Posted 2017-12-18 11:42 AM (#554543 - in reply to #554438)
Subject: Re: '56 Plymouth Starter/Steering Gear Box Interference



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Thanks David!
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56D500boy
Posted 2017-12-18 6:18 PM (#554579 - in reply to #554438)
Subject: RE: '56 Plymouth Starter/Steering Gear Box Interference



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GaryS - 2017-12-16 8:14 PM
Years ago, I had a '55 Plymouth with a 270 engine and I don't recall a tight fit in that area.
If anyone has a completely stock installation that they can see easily, would you please let me know how much clearance you have between the starter housing and the gear box?


Gary: I had my camera out so I thought I would snap a photo of my 56 Dodge D500 315 hemi starter and Power Steering gear box through the hole that is available when you remove the inspection panel (mine is loose while I decide what to do with my carpet installation). I think there is something like 3" of clearance for that engine/starter/steering box combination.



Edited by 56D500boy 2017-12-18 6:21 PM




(D500_315_StarterToPSBoxClearance.jpg)



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Powerflite
Posted 2017-12-18 7:02 PM (#554583 - in reply to #554438)
Subject: Re: '56 Plymouth Starter/Steering Gear Box Interference



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Wow, I didn't realize that '56 Dodge used the same motor mount as the 277 Plymouth.
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56D500boy
Posted 2017-12-18 7:57 PM (#554586 - in reply to #554583)
Subject: Re: '56 Plymouth Starter/Steering Gear Box Interference



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Powerflite - 2017-12-18 7:02 PM
Wow, I didn't realize that '56 Dodge used the same motor mount as the 277 Plymouth.


I really need to get my car in the air and investigate what is what. Which part in the diagram below is the unpainted/plated part just beyond the starter in my photo?

This?



Edited by 56D500boy 2017-12-18 8:02 PM




(55-56EngineMounts.jpg)



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Powerflite
Posted 2017-12-18 8:11 PM (#554588 - in reply to #554438)
Subject: RE: '56 Plymouth Starter/Steering Gear Box Interference



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It is painted silver and is the very cheap and easy to purchase motor mount that the 277 motors used in the '56 Plymouth cars, starting late in the model year. Apparently, some Dodge V8 motors used them too, but which ones and when?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1956-Plymouth-Fury-Dodge-D500-NOS-MoPar-MOT...



(IMG_6829-vi.jpg)



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56D500boy
Posted 2017-12-18 11:06 PM (#554609 - in reply to #554588)
Subject: RE: '56 Plymouth Starter/Steering Gear Box Interference



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Powerflite - 2017-12-18 8:11 PM
It is painted silver and is the very cheap and easy to purchase motor mount that the 277 motors used in the '56 Plymouth cars, starting late in the model year. Apparently, some Dodge V8 motors used them too, but which ones and when?


So not the "spool"-type mounts shown in the parts diagram.

I guess you were joking about cheap and easy to find (?). I was looking for the PNs. 1635 016 Right and 1635 017 left (I think) for 56 Plymouth and Dodge V8s according to this:



Edited by 56D500boy 2017-12-18 11:08 PM




(55-58EngineMountPNs.jpg)



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Powerflite
Posted 2017-12-18 11:29 PM (#554611 - in reply to #554438)
Subject: Re: '56 Plymouth Starter/Steering Gear Box Interference



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Spool mounts were used in 1957-up. The part number for these is given right in the Ebay ad. 1637610 and is the same for left and right. The mounts you looked up are for the 270 Dodge motor in the Plymouth & early? 315 in the Dodge which are completely different.
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56D500boy
Posted 2017-12-19 1:14 AM (#554623 - in reply to #554611)
Subject: Re: '56 Plymouth Starter/Steering Gear Box Interference



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Powerflite - 2017-12-18 11:29 PM
Spool mounts were used in 1957-up. The part number for these is given right in the Ebay ad. 1637610 and is the same for left and right. The mounts you looked up are for the 270 Dodge motor in the Plymouth & early? 315 in the Dodge which are completely different.


Some how I missed the link the first time.

Is there some rubber missing or is it there and I am just not seeing it? Definitely missed the price too (YIKES)

Len Dawson has them for $135 each but seems to say not for a 56 Dodge, i.e. not D63 but D56 = 55 Dodge

Loc Quanity Part # Description Application Price
S-47 1 1637610 FRONT ENG MOUNT W/ 8 CYL P 56 FROM ENG #P29-41001 THRU 80000 AND #P29-250001 THRU 274009; D 56 $135


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Powerflite
Posted 2017-12-19 2:36 AM (#554624 - in reply to #554438)
Subject: Re: '56 Plymouth Starter/Steering Gear Box Interference



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The rubber is in between the two metal parts that you see.
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DepsilonD
Posted 2017-12-19 11:39 AM (#554648 - in reply to #554438)
Subject: RE: '56 Plymouth Starter/Steering Gear Box Interference



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I had picked up a set of 1956 Dodge/Plymouth motor mounts from Bruce Faulkner (with the Matching Crown Yellow D500's) a couple of years back. At that time he said there were two different mounts used on the '56 V-8 D/P's, but that is all I know. Here are some pictures of the mounts that I got from him. On a side note, Then n' Now Automotive revolcanizes the original mounts. http://www.then-now-auto.com/plymouth-motor-mounts/

And sorry Gary, I forgot to get you pictures last night. I will try to remember tonight.



(IMG_0990.reduced.jpg)



(IMG_0991.reduced.jpg)



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Powerflite
Posted 2017-12-19 12:27 PM (#554654 - in reply to #554438)
Subject: Re: '56 Plymouth Starter/Steering Gear Box Interference



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Interesting. Apparently there were at least 3 different mounts. The website you listed shows part 1637585 which is very similar to 1637610 and the parts book shows them both, but the 1637585 only for the Plymouth, and on earlier, late V8's. I would assume that 1637610 replaced it for some reason.

Edited by Powerflite 2017-12-19 12:28 PM
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56D500boy
Posted 2017-12-19 10:46 PM (#554691 - in reply to #554648)
Subject: RE: '56 Plymouth Starter/Steering Gear Box Interference



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This might not be relevant: A 55 Dodge with a 270 hemi and no power steering starter to steering box (not mine):





(55Dodge270HemiStarterToSteeringBoxClearance.jpg)



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56D500boy
Posted 2017-12-19 10:52 PM (#554692 - in reply to #554648)
Subject: RE: '56 Plymouth Starter/Steering Gear Box Interference



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Definitely looks like I have 1637 610s

Maybe

Yours / Mine



Edited by 56D500boy 2017-12-19 10:54 PM
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DepsilonD
Posted 2017-12-22 12:42 PM (#554866 - in reply to #554438)
Subject: RE: '56 Plymouth Starter/Steering Gear Box Interference



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I think so Dave F.

And GaryS here is the best I could do this morning. I was dressed for a Christmas Party so I couldn't climb under the car but I will this weekend. And for everyone's reference this is a 277 Poly in a '56 Plymouth. The starter and manual steering box is close, but I think there is about an inch or so of clearance between the two.

Dave N.



(IMG_0997.reduced.jpg)



(IMG_0998.reduced.jpg)



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GaryS
Posted 2017-12-22 4:28 PM (#554885 - in reply to #554438)
Subject: Re: '56 Plymouth Starter/Steering Gear Box Interference



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Wow! That much clearance with a stock starter!

I've been too busy with holiday stuff to take time for further analysis, but maybe something will be obvious next year. Thanks for the pictures, Dave.

Edited by GaryS 2017-12-22 4:30 PM
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DepsilonD
Posted 2017-12-27 12:10 PM (#555071 - in reply to #554438)
Subject: Re: '56 Plymouth Starter/Steering Gear Box Interference



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I will try to get you some better shots in the coming days. I know there is a little offset on the motor to the passenger side because of the starter and steering box interference so I will also try to get you some actual measurements too.
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GaryS
Posted 2017-12-27 4:36 PM (#555082 - in reply to #554438)
Subject: Re: '56 Plymouth Starter/Steering Gear Box Interference



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Thanks, David. I thought I had offset the engine far enough to the passenger side, but obviously I mis-measured something, even though the bell housing is centered in the firewall recess, and the transmission mount is within a quarter inch of the original cross-member location.
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