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56 Dodge Custom Royal 4dr Sedan
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frwl
Posted 2020-02-14 4:02 PM (#594264 - in reply to #555178)
Subject: RE: 56 Dodge Custom Royal 4dr Sedan


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Unfortunately the picture only. No info about the car.
It’s interesting for myself…
And another picture of ’56 DeSoto, if you need. Bad to see, but probably SG4 car too. No info about this car too…





(1.jpg)



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RDP
Posted 2020-02-14 4:23 PM (#594265 - in reply to #594264)
Subject: Re: 56 Dodge Custom Royal 4dr Sedan



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Thanks, first big car with M8 = 3.
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frwl
Posted 2020-02-14 4:29 PM (#594267 - in reply to #555178)
Subject: RE: 56 Dodge Custom Royal 4dr Sedan


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Do you have a data plate (or info like in your table) of cars with manual trans?
Can you show me a full row for A/C cars in your table? (highlighted in yellow)





(get-attachment.jpg)



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RDP
Posted 2020-02-15 12:18 PM (#594312 - in reply to #594267)
Subject: Re: 56 Dodge Custom Royal 4dr Sedan



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De Soto https://desoto.org/community/discussion/new-desoto-owner-with-questi...

SG 4
M5 2
M6 2
M8 4
M9 3

SCHED 1011
NO 4015
MODEL S23
BT 026
PT 411
TR 568



(des pink.JPG)



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RDP
Posted 2020-02-15 12:23 PM (#594313 - in reply to #594267)
Subject: RE: 56 Dodge Custom Royal 4dr Sedan



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frwl - 2020-02-14 10:29 PM

.
Do you have a data plate (or info like in your table) of cars with manual trans?
Can you show me a full row for A/C cars in your table? (highlighted in yellow)



sorry, no info about the manual trans

updated full list in attachment



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56D500boy
Posted 2020-02-15 2:08 PM (#594315 - in reply to #594313)
Subject: RE: 56 Dodge Custom Royal 4dr Sedan



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RDP - 2020-02-15 9:23 AM
sorry, no info about the manual trans


I am in contact with two people with real D500-1 "race" cars, i.e. heavy duty chassis, 5.5 x 5 hubs and real Imperial brakes and manual transmissions (with overdrive). I have seen both of the IBM cards and can confirm that their transmission code is "2" as in 332 on the IBM card. I think that "1" as in 331 = 3 spd manual but no over drive.

The problem is both of these D500-1s are Detroit cars, i.e. VIN 35......, and therefore their cowl data tag is different than the LA tags that you two (Igor and Robert) seem to have found the most.

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frwl
Posted 2020-02-15 4:08 PM (#594321 - in reply to #555178)
Subject: RE: 56 Dodge Custom Royal 4dr Sedan


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Thank you Robert, I got your excel table.
Are you sure 100% about this Plymouth (row#14) has equipped with A/C?
I have a picture of cowl tag of this car (see picture below), but no info about equipment…

Some correction to DeSoto in row# 16:
You forgot to note Power Seat in «other option» column;
Sched No. 0227 must be 4028 instead 4026 in «info» column (see picture below)
That is a question: Power Seat option is not stamped on the cowl tag…




(Is this AC car.jpg)



(Power Seat 4 Way.JPG)



(Sched No 0227_4028.JPG)



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frwl
Posted 2020-02-15 4:26 PM (#594323 - in reply to #555178)
Subject: RE: 56 Dodge Custom Royal 4dr Sedan


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Robert:
A well equipped DeSoto Fireflite Sportsman to your «collection»…
Of course with cowl tag and serial number pictured…

Power Steering
Power Brakes
Power Windows
Power Seat
Heater
Air Conditioning
5 Push Button Radio with Rear Shelf Speaker (bad to see behind rear seat on the picture# 4)
Dual Rear Antennas
Solex Glass at all window areas plus Windshield Upper Molding
Dual Clock – on the dash panel and in the steering wheel hub
Dual Outside Rear View Mirrors and Inside One
Kelsey Hayes Wire Wheels, etc…

The pictures says for itself…




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56D500boy
Posted 2020-02-15 4:42 PM (#594325 - in reply to #594323)
Subject: RE: 56 Dodge Custom Royal 4dr Sedan



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Igor and Robert: To be clear, that beautiful Desoto (some woman must have picked the colours, etc), did *NOT* leave the factory with Air Conditioning. The A/C compressor and air distribution system (hanging under the dash) are NOT OE. Makes me wonder what else was/is NOT OE.

Look behind the steering wheel.



OE A/C in 1956 had a huge unit in the trunk and scoops on the rear fender and ducting on the rear parcel tray







Edited by 56D500boy 2020-02-15 4:46 PM




(1956MoparAccessoriesACpage_small.jpg)



(56DodgeCustomRoyalD500WithAirConCompressorEtc.jpg)



(56DodgeCustomRoyalD500WithAirConShowingAirScoops.jpg)



(ACVentsAndRadioSpeakerIn1956Imperial.jpg)



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RDP
Posted 2020-02-15 4:55 PM (#594326 - in reply to #555178)
Subject: Re: 56 Dodge Custom Royal 4dr Sedan



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thanks, I corrected mistakes



frwl - 2020-02-15 10:08 PM

.Are you sure 100% about this Plymouth (row#14) has equipped with A/C?
I have a picture of cowl tag of this car (see picture below), but no info about equipment…



I'm not sure. it's a Daryl car, you can ask him

dludvik76 - 2019-01-28 5:18 PM

Right now, I only know it's a v8 auto car, AC, NO PS. I'm picking it up in a couple of weeks and doing some pre-research. You guys are correct, it is a white / pine green car as well.



Beautiful De Soto, I'll add to the list
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RDP
Posted 2020-02-15 4:59 PM (#594327 - in reply to #594325)
Subject: RE: 56 Dodge Custom Royal 4dr Sedan



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56D500boy - 2020-02-15 10:42 PM

.
Igor and Robert: To be clear, that beautiful Desoto (some woman must have picked the colours, etc), did *NOT* leave the factory with Air Conditioning.




you're right, Dave
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frwl
Posted 2020-04-03 5:58 PM (#596409 - in reply to #555178)
Subject: RE: 56 Dodge Custom Royal 4dr Sedan


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I looking in old thread and found this:

http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=23448&...

The man who bought Golden Royal Lancer describes his car:

«It has no radio, thus a radio delete plate, no power steering or no power brakes. Does have a heater/defroster and that is about it.»
«It is indeed the powerflite 2 speed automatic.»

So, let’s see to the attached picture of the cowl tag: SG=1, M2=4 and M8=3 (see picture below)
We are discussed above SG=1 (Solex Glass) and guessed that M8=3 (Powerflite)…
Maybe M2=4 is a Heater? I compared 4 to 1956 Plymouth Codes sheet… The Heater has code 354!!!

I do scroll down this tread and found another else Golden Lancer cowl tag: SG=1, M2=4 and M8=3 (M9=3 too)
Again: No PS, no PB, but it has Tinted Glass (SG=1), Powerflite (M8=3) and Heater… M2=4

Take a closer look to Dave’s cowl tag: SG=1, M1=8, and M2=empty; and South Carolina cowl tag: SG=1, M1=7, and M2=empty
Both cars have heaters, but M2 is empty: they should be M2=4. But Dave’s car has three accessory groups, one of these (Basic) includes a heater. It has power steering and power brakes also, as a South Carolina car. So, maybe M1=8 means PS, PB, and three accessory groups, and maybe M1=7 means PS, PB, and two accessory group (one of these should be Basic)

I am continuing and now… Kelly’s (aka Rusty Fender) cowl tag: SG=1, M1=5, M2=4 and M8=3 (M9=8 too)
I have no photo of engine bay, but I think the heater is present: M2=4. Now about M1=5 (Any accessory group, as I guessing above): Why do they stamping M2=4, if Accessory Groups M1=5 are present?
Answer is simply: The car has accessory group (or groups) but not including a BASIC group with Heater… It has Convenience or Appearance group.

Thus, if this is not PS and PB car – column M1 is empty
M1=empty and M2=4 is a heater only
M1=5 and M2=4 is a Convenience or Appearance Group singly or both and Heater (no Basic Group)
M1=7 and no M2 is a Basic Group and one of two: Convenience or Appearance
M1=8 and no M2 is a Basic Group, Convenience Group and Appearance Group

By the way: M1=7 and M1=8 cars have equipped with PS and PB both
M1=5 – hard to see, although on the steering wheel in the cabin picture, just on the right to Dodge badge we can see a Power Steering script… so my theory is confirms. Anyway: need to see a picture of the engine bay…




(Golden Lancer No. 1.jpg)



(Golden Lancer No. 2.jpg)



(Dave's car an SC car.jpg)



(Rusty Fender Cowl Tag.jpg)



(Rusty Fender interior.jpg)



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56D500boy
Posted 2020-04-03 6:41 PM (#596410 - in reply to #596409)
Subject: RE: 56 Dodge Custom Royal 4dr Sedan



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Igor: I will need to take some time to digest what you said.

In the meantime, I need to add that the SC 56 D500 Custom Royal Sedan (twin to mine, including colours and LA build) differs from mine on one important thing: it has Air Con.

Not sure what that does to your interpretation but there it is.

Good luck






(56DodgeD500CustomRoyal4drSedanBlueOnBlue_2_small.jpg)



(56DodgeD500CustomRoyal4drSedanBlueOnBlue_EngineBay_small.jpg)



(56DodgeD500CustomRoyal4drSedanBlueOnBlue_5_small.jpg)



(56DodgeD500CustomRoyal4drSedanBlueOnBlue_4_small.jpg)



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RDP
Posted 2020-04-04 4:14 AM (#596422 - in reply to #555178)
Subject: Re: 56 Dodge Custom Royal 4dr Sedan



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Igor, if your theory works, it should be assumed that the cars from columns 8 and 11 do not have PB and PS?
It doesn't seem to work for Plymouth



(a1a56.JPG)



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frwl
Posted 2020-04-04 5:52 AM (#596423 - in reply to #555178)
Subject: RE: 56 Dodge Custom Royal 4dr Sedan


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Dave: since 1953 and until 1958 model year, Heater and Air Conditioning options had separate columns in the cowl tag. I don’t know why, maybe because AC was a separate unit which located in the trunk. At least it is correctly with reference to Chrysler cars. It sounds absurd, but the presence of heater not affects the presence AC. Just since 1958, the heater and AC option have united in single column and have had codes 341, 342, 343, 344 and 345.

Yes, South Carolina car has AC and it may be stamped in the M1=7 column. But your car has M1=8 (PS, PB and all Accessory Groups) while SC car has M1=7 (same options like your car plus AC) it is not logically. It should be M1=9, at least because AC has code 369 in the ’56 Plymouth sheet… It might be stamped in the M3=7 column, not in the M1=7. And, are you sure that SC car has FACTORY installed AC? Could the AC and rear seat speaker have been installed in the FACTORY together?

Robert: the cars that have empty M1 column do not have PS and PB
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RDP
Posted 2020-04-04 8:21 AM (#596426 - in reply to #596423)
Subject: Re: 56 Dodge Custom Royal 4dr Sedan



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Ok, I get it now. PB+PS+AG it makes sense, but how about it:
I think the same scheme should be used for all brands. Not only Dodge. Am I right or wrong?
So, standard equipment probably doesn't appear on the plate. I marked the stantard eq. in the table (s).
New Yorkers have PB as standard, so M1 is empty. Windsor M1=1 (PB+PS). But PS in NY is not a standard.
There is another situation in DeSotos. All cars have M1 empty. But most have PB, some cars PS.



(a2a56.JPG)



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frwl
Posted 2020-04-04 9:40 AM (#596428 - in reply to #555178)
Subject: RE: 56 Dodge Custom Royal 4dr Sedan


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I understood what you are talking about. I don’t know exactly – this is just my guessing based on first picture I posted, where M2=4 and M8=3 and further confirming by next pictures (options). The one thing is important: standard ’56 Dodge equipped with tinted glass, heater and automatic transmission only, has SG=1, M2=4 and M8=3 codes – these facts stated by his owner. No PS and PB. This is the starting point for determining further options for decoding other cars.

I am just assuming, that M1 column is an Accessory Groups Code, because cars equipped with heaters and having an empty M2 column may have a group of accessories where it is (heater) already included.

Maybe the column M1 is not show PS and PB at all. With reference to Chrysler models – it maybe focus contains in the next codes: M3=5, M5=1 or M5=2 – I don’t know. Same situation with DeSoto. Anyway: need more pictures of LA-built cowl tags…
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RDP
Posted 2020-04-09 2:51 PM (#596631 - in reply to #555178)
Subject: Re: 56 Dodge Custom Royal 4dr Sedan



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another NY

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1956-Chrysler-New-Yorker/223972433883?hash=...

oops I see that Igor found it too

SG=5, M3=5, M8=4 just like in a Dieter's car. Only M9 is different

Edited by RDP 2020-04-09 3:02 PM




(c72.JPG)



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frwl
Posted 2020-04-09 6:36 PM (#596633 - in reply to #555178)
Subject: RE: 56 Dodge Custom Royal 4dr Sedan


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So, if I have seen correctly:
Schedule 0502 0201 – May 02, 1956
Mode C72 – New Yorker
Body Type 045 = New Yorker 4 Door Sedan
Paint – Cloud White (code 41)
Trim – Black Nylon and Turquoise Brocatelle (Code 49) – non-leather interior

That’s true Robert – it is like a Dieter’s car.
So, what they have in common except body type, paint scheme and trim material:

Arrived car: SG=5, M3=5, M8=4, M9=3
Dieter’s car: SG=5, M3=5, M8=4, M9=8

Power Steering – both have
Power Brakes – both have
Heater – both have
6 Button Radio – both have
Antenna – both have
Rear Seat Speaker – ???
Solex Glass throughout – both have
Sun Cap Visor above Windshield – both have
Windshield Washer – Dieter’s car only
Left Outside Mirror – both have
Right Outside Mirror – probably non-factory item on the arrived car
Inside Mirror – not seen on the Dieter’s car… arrived car only

So, what the difference between these cars?
Dave, Robert, Nathan… any ideas by your opinion?

Something wrong with the antenna in this car… Maybe it is optional EXTRA LONG antenna?
If just assuming that M9 column means different combinations of the RADIO – ANTENNA – REAR SEAT SPEAKER:

Radios: 6 Button or 5 Button
Aerials: Manual, Extra Long, Dual or Power assisted
Rear Seat Speaker: Yes or No





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frwl
Posted 2020-04-15 2:37 PM (#596875 - in reply to #555178)
Subject: RE: 56 Dodge Custom Royal 4dr Sedan


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1956 Chrysler Prices Dealer Sheet





(1956 Prices.jpg)



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frwl
Posted 2020-05-07 5:50 PM (#597913 - in reply to #555178)
Subject: RE: 56 Dodge Custom Royal 4dr Sedan


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Found this 1956 Dodge cowl tag picture here…

http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=47333&...

SG=1
M1=8
M2=4
M8=3
M9=4

Model D631 – Coronet
Looks like Coronet Lancer Hardtop Coupe with V8 engine (Body 816)
Couldn’t see a Paint Code…
It has Deluxe Black Trim (Code 531)





(1.jpg)



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frwl
Posted 2020-05-13 8:48 AM (#598185 - in reply to #555178)
Subject: RE: 56 Dodge Custom Royal 4dr Sedan


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This is a cowl tag picture of LA-build 1958 Coronet found here:

http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=47333&...

D500neil interpreted code M5=1 as Left Outside Rear View Mirror option (code 401 in 1958)
Dave, your car has M5=2 option on the cowl tag;
According to your 1955 Dodge codes spreadsheet, it might be LH Mirror too – code 402 (and probably in 1956)
Robert’s Windsor Nassau does not have left mirror, but prismatic – does, and his cowl tag says M5=1 (code 401 in the spreadsheet)
What do you think?




(M5=1.jpg)



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Powerflite
Posted 2020-05-13 10:27 AM (#598190 - in reply to #555178)
Subject: Re: 56 Dodge Custom Royal 4dr Sedan



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His car also had power brakes, power steering, torqueflite, e-brake light, padded dash, heater, solex glass? & maybe deluxe interior. All of that just left off the data tag?
My '58 Coronet also has a lone M5=1, and it had left mirror, power steering, torqueflite, radio, heater, solex glass & deluxe interior.
Of all the options there why code just the mirror? But in comparing my car with his, we both have the same lousy information on the tag, but we have very different options on our cars, so it is obvious that LA tags in '58 became quite useless in determining what options the car has.

Edited by Powerflite 2020-05-13 10:31 AM




(58LancerBodyTag.jpg)



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frwl
Posted 2020-05-13 11:08 AM (#598192 - in reply to #555178)
Subject: RE: 56 Dodge Custom Royal 4dr Sedan


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Hi Nathan! And what do you think about this:
The Spring Special 1958 Dodge Custom Royal Lancer

http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=73762&...

M3=5, M4=3 and M5=1

Maybe M3=5 means spring special package? (Like on the Detroit-built Regal Lancers tag first number «5» in the paint code: 5XSX, 5SXS or 5SAS…)
While a M4=3 means Dual Antennas (code 333)?
Any thoughts?




(5-3-1.jpg)



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RDP
Posted 2020-05-13 2:25 PM (#598217 - in reply to #598185)
Subject: RE: 56 Dodge Custom Royal 4dr Sedan



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frwl - 2020-05-13 2:48 PM


Robert’s Windsor Nassau does not have left mirror, but prismatic – does, and his cowl tag says M5=1 (code 401 in the spreadsheet)



Ok, says M5=1, but not 401 on the sheet
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frwl
Posted 2020-05-14 8:19 AM (#598249 - in reply to #555178)
Subject: RE: 56 Dodge Custom Royal 4dr Sedan


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Robert: You are not alone
Cowl tag shows SG=3, while build sheet shows 7 (Solex Glass Code 467)




(1.jpg)



(2.jpg)



(3.jpg)



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RDP
Posted 2020-05-14 12:31 PM (#598255 - in reply to #555178)
Subject: Re: 56 Dodge Custom Royal 4dr Sedan



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it doesn't make sense, but it's interesting
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frwl
Posted 2020-06-09 8:18 AM (#599446 - in reply to #555178)
Subject: RE: 56 Dodge Custom Royal 4dr Sedan


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Sharing my guesses about «SG» column on the ’56 DeSoto cowl tag
SG is a Solex Glass as we know, but what if:
SG = 3 is a Group Code #3
SG = 4 is a Group Code #4
SG = 5 is a Group Code #5
Besides same items all groups have solex glass and differ by radios only…
No radio (group #3); 8 Tube Radio with 6 push buttons (group #4); 9 Tube Radio with 5 push buttons (group #5)
There are many examples in this thread for check this

And on the ’56 Chrysler cowl tag:
SG = 1 is a Solex Glass
SG = 5 is a Convenience Group (Detroit-built code 5) that including Solex Glass besides the mirrors – see below
The Chrysler has only one group including tinted glass (instead three groups on DeSoto)
Not sure about Windsor’s numerical indexes (order codes), but New Yorker has following codes (based on Detroit-built codes):
3 = Custom Group
5 = Convenience Group (only this group is indirectly shown SG=5 column, I guess)
7 = Power Group
9 = Power Steering only

Dieter’s Chrysler cowl tag picture confirms this (solex glass and left O/S mirror are visible on the picture), but I have not any Windsor’s cowl tag picture with SG=5 on it to confirm this.

Windsor may be having same codes:
1 = Safety Group
3 = Custom Group
5 = Convenience Group
7 = Power Group
9 = Power Steering only

Dodge has not accessory groups that having tinted glass, therefore if the car has equipped with it – «SG» will be «1» always.

P.S. By the way, besides the Convenience Group #5, Dieter’s car also has prismatic mirror and custom steering wheel – items including in the Custom Group #3.
Aren’t they showed on his IBM card casually? 453 and 455?






(DeSoto Accessory Groups.jpg)



(Example 1 picture 1.jpg)



(Example 1 picture 2.jpg)



(Example 2 picture 1.jpg)



(Example 2 picture 2.jpg)



(Chrysler Accessory Groups.JPG)



(Example 3 picture 1.jpg)



(Example 3 picture 2.jpg)



(Example 3 picture 3.jpg)



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Attachments Example 2 picture 1.jpg (59KB - 304 downloads)
Attachments Example 2 picture 2.jpg (105KB - 304 downloads)
Attachments Chrysler Accessory Groups.JPG (178KB - 305 downloads)
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RDP
Posted 2020-06-09 1:57 PM (#599474 - in reply to #599446)
Subject: Re: 56 Dodge Custom Royal 4dr Sedan



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I don't know, maybe it's a good way. My Windsor has a Safety Group (I think).
If SF = 1, maybe M1 or M5 means accessory groups?
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frwl
Posted 2020-06-10 9:20 AM (#599498 - in reply to #555178)
Subject: RE: 56 Dodge Custom Royal 4dr Sedan


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I also think that M1=1 or M5=1 is accessory group, but don’t know which one…
Continuing my previous post (where codes 453 and 455 are maybe means accessory groups #3 and #5), your IBM card has code 451 in same area (accessory group #1). It might be confirming that.

I’m also guessing the code 344 on your IBM card (and Dieter’s car too) is a Heater
The heater-equipped Detroit-built Chryslers have code 4 (or 6 for Gasoline Heater)

Next digit on your card is «3» (code 353) and on the Dieter’s car is «4» (code 354), I think is a Radio:

Detroit-built Chryslers Radio Codes:
1 = Electro Touch Tuner and Rear Seat Speaker
2 = Electro Touch Tuner
3 = Music Master and Rear Seat Speaker
4 = Music Master

You told that your car has Music Master Radio and Rear Seat Speaker (3 = code 353) and probably Dieter’s car (4 = 354) has same radio without rear speaker
But the first «6» on the Dave’s Dodge is still the question…

I still stand my guess about automatic transmission codes (also based on Detroit-built car codes):
New Yorker
M8 = 3 = 423 = Powerflite without Power Steering
M8 = 4 = 424 = Powerflite and Power Steering
Windsor
M8 = 3 = 423 = Powerflite without Power Steering (but I have not example to confirm that)
M8 = 8 = 428 = Powerflite and Power Steering
I don’t know why LA-built Dodges equipped with Powerflite have M8=3 only (with or without power steering)
I guess the power equipment of LA-built Dodges stamped in the M1 column according to Dave’s listing based on 1955 Mike Petersen’s book:

M1 = 1 = 341 = Power Steering
M1 = 4 = 344 = Power Seat 4 Way
M1 = 5 = 345 = Power Brakes
M1 = 6 = 346 = Power Brakes and Power Seat 4 Way
M1 = 7 = 347 = Power Steering and Power Brakes and Power Seat 4 Way
M1 = 8 = 348 = Power Steering and Power Brakes (Dave’s car has it)
M1 = 9 = 349 = Power Steering and Power Seat 4 Way

Power Windows option occupy separate «EW» column…

And the last: Detroit-built Chrysler Windsors equipped with power brakes have code «5». This option standard on the New Yorkers, 300Bs and Imperials
Robert, your IBM card has only one «5» (code 385); it might be designated a power brakes. (Dieter’s car has no code 385 because power brakes is standard)
Therefore 381 might be a solex glass (by analogy with 1956 Plymouth Order Codes, where 361 = solex glass and 365 = power brakes)
Dieter's IBM card has not code 381 because solex glass included in accessory group #5
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RDP
Posted 2020-06-10 11:39 AM (#599501 - in reply to #599498)
Subject: RE: 56 Dodge Custom Royal 4dr Sedan



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frwl - 2020-06-10 3:20 PM

Therefore 381 might be a solex glass (by analogy with 1956 Plymouth Order Codes, where 361 = solex glass and 365 = power brakes)
Dieter's IBM card has not code 381 because solex glass included in accessory group #5
:)


why by analogy? My IBM also has a 361 and Dieter card too.
In NY Solex included in # 5, but its mean that there is no IBM code?
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frwl
Posted 2020-06-10 1:18 PM (#599505 - in reply to #555178)
Subject: RE: 56 Dodge Custom Royal 4dr Sedan


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Wrong told… I’ll try to explain…
Your car has power brakes. Detroit code of this item has code «5». Your IBM Card has only one 5 (code 385).
According to 1956 Plymouth Order Codes, the power brakes option have code 365 (not a 385 as you have).
Therefore I guessed that your IBM card code 385 matches to 1956 Plymouth’s code 365.
And further, your IBM Card codes 361 – 381 – 385 actually are Plymouth’s codes 341 – 361 – 365.
Where 361 solex glass, 365 power brakes, and 341 – something else (or not 341), I don’t know yet…
Otherwise your car is not equipped with power brakes and music master radio (in place of it Powerflite code 353)
Just a guessing… difficult and at the same time simply…
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RDP
Posted 2020-06-10 2:34 PM (#599507 - in reply to #599505)
Subject: Re: 56 Dodge Custom Royal 4dr Sedan



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If I understand correctly: Chrysler code -20 = Plymouth code
If this is correct, it should work on all codes.

C - 20 = P
344 = 324 = no code
361 = 341 = heavy duty package
381 = 361 = solex
385 = 365 = power brakes
428 = 408 = no code
451 = 431 = generator
469 = 449 = no code
473 = 453 = no code

Sorry, I think it doesn't work.

So, the C / P codes are completely different or 361 is the solex code for all.

Why invent different codes for the same parts?
I think some codes are the same for all.
The codes on the Plymouth card do not use all places.
This is not 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9. This is 1,3,4,5,8.
2,6,7,9 are codes for use by other brands.




Edited by RDP 2020-06-10 2:57 PM
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frwl
Posted 2020-06-10 3:13 PM (#599509 - in reply to #555178)
Subject: RE: 56 Dodge Custom Royal 4dr Sedan


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Okay. All codes have same numbers, right?
What do you say for this?

Powerflite (Detroit card = 333, LA card = 353)
Power Brakes (Detroit card = 345, LA card = 365)
Radio (Detroit card = 339, LA card = 359)
Heater (Detroit card 334, LA card = 354) etc.

Only accessory groups matches (351, 354, 356)
I think only last digit of codes matches, first two ones are not…




(Detroit IBM Card.jpg)



(Los Angeles IBM Card.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments Detroit IBM Card.jpg (239KB - 316 downloads)
Attachments Los Angeles IBM Card.jpg (235KB - 296 downloads)
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RDP
Posted 2020-06-10 3:49 PM (#599510 - in reply to #555178)
Subject: Re: 56 Dodge Custom Royal 4dr Sedan



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Ok, this is good news, it makes sense.
Chrysler Historical Services always use single digits.
If the last digit is the same for all plants it should be easy.

I meant the same codes for one plant, all makes, those that can be general e.g. PS PB Solex

Edited by RDP 2020-06-10 4:17 PM
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56D500boy
Posted 2020-06-10 4:15 PM (#599512 - in reply to #599509)
Subject: RE: 56 Dodge Custom Royal 4dr Sedan



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Igor and Robert: You guys are doing great trying to figure out both the 56 Dodge Detroit and LA IBM cards. Obviously there are differences between the two cards. Please don't argue about it. Come to a consensus. There are no living people who were there working at Chrysler who can help us out.

Not to muddy the waters but the LA card above is mine. My car came with NO radio (radio delete panel in place). I'm not sure whether the code would have been punched in the 35 column. I think the 35 column carries the accessory package codes. Mine 1,4,6 and 8 and the D500 Golden Lancer coupe 1,4,6 and 7. I've never actually seen the car so I don't know about its radio, only mine.



Edited by 56D500boy 2020-06-10 4:28 PM




(DaveFsIBMCard_Annotated_smaller.jpg)



(IBMProductionCardExample_LABuilt56DodgeGoldenLancer.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments DaveFsIBMCard_Annotated_smaller.jpg (241KB - 300 downloads)
Attachments IBMProductionCardExample_LABuilt56DodgeGoldenLancer.jpg (243KB - 301 downloads)
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RDP
Posted 2020-06-10 4:38 PM (#599514 - in reply to #555178)
Subject: Re: 56 Dodge Custom Royal 4dr Sedan



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Well, It's just my 2 cents. I have no idea what the correct answer.
Igor, I'm not saying that your ideas are wrong.
It's fun and interesting to try different options.
I believe that one day we will succeed.
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RDP
Posted 2020-06-10 4:47 PM (#599515 - in reply to #555178)
Subject: Re: 56 Dodge Custom Royal 4dr Sedan



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lets try, for example my car;
PF, PS, PB, MM+RS, Heater, Carpet, 2-paint, Sf Group, Solex

344---------4-----------
353---------3-----------
361---------1-----------
381---------1-----------
385---------5-----------
428---------8-----------
451---------1-----------
469---------9-----------
473---------3-----------


Detroit codes:
3 = Powerflite
1 = Antenna Manual
3 = Music Master with Rear Seat Speaker
4 = Custom Conditionare Air Heater
1 = Solex
1 = Accessory Group Safety
9 = Power Steering
5 = Power Brakes

344---------4-----------Heater
353---------3-----------PF
361---------1-----------Solex
381---------1-----------
385---------5-----------PB
428---------8-----------
451---------1-----------AG Safety
469---------9-----------PS
473---------3-----------MM+RS

what do you say?

edit; 473 it must be wrong, or all

Dieters NY;
PS, MM, Heater, 2-paint, Solex, CS Wheel

Standard eqp. - PB, PF

344--------4--------- Heater
354--------4---------
361--------1--------- Solex
424--------1---------
453--------3--------- AG Custom
455--------5--------- AG Convenience

Dieter, we need your help!

.

Edited by RDP 2020-06-11 4:30 AM
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RDP
Posted 2020-06-11 4:24 AM (#599538 - in reply to #599498)
Subject: RE: 56 Dodge Custom Royal 4dr Sedan



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frwl - 2020-06-10 3:20 PM


I still stand my guess about automatic transmission codes (also based on Detroit-built car codes):
New Yorker
M8 = 3 = 423 = Powerflite without Power Steering
M8 = 4 = 424 = Powerflite and Power Steering
Windsor
M8 = 3 = 423 = Powerflite without Power Steering (but I have not example to confirm that)
M8 = 8 = 428 = Powerflite and Power Steering





I'm trying to understand why PF + PS code is completely different in NY and Windsor, while PF - PS is the same.
May there are three codes 3, 4, 8 for three different options?
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frwl
Posted 2020-06-11 6:44 AM (#599540 - in reply to #555178)
Subject: RE: 56 Dodge Custom Royal 4dr Sedan


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You are almost right. Some corrections:

344---------4-----------Heater
353---------3-----------MM Radio + RS
361---------1-----------No idea yet…
381---------1-----------Solex
385---------5-----------Power Brakes
428---------8-----------Powerflite and Power Steering (423 = Powerflite only)
451---------1-----------AG Safety
469---------9-----------No idea (but maybe Power Steering separately)
473---------3-----------No idea too…

Or that:

Detroit Code 334---------344---------4-----------Heater
Detroit Code 333---------353---------3-----------MM Radio + RS (Detroit Code 334---------354 = MM Radio without RS)
Detroit Code ??? ---------361---------1-----------No idea yet… (it maybe Undercoating)
Detroit Code ??? ---------381---------1-----------Solex
Detroit Code 345---------385---------5-----------Power Brakes
Detroit Code 338---------428---------8-----------Powerflite and Power Steering (Detroit Code 333---------423 = Powerflite only)
Detroit Code 351---------451---------1-----------AG Safety
Detroit Code ??? ---------469---------9-----------No idea (but it maybe Power Steering separately)
Detroit Code ??? ---------473---------3-----------No idea too…

Dieter’s car:

Detroit Code 334---------344--------4-----------Heater
Detroit Code 334---------354--------4-----------MM Radio without RS
Detroit Code ??? ---------361--------1-----------No idea (Solex included in AG Convenience)
Detroit Code 334---------424--------1------------Powerflite and Power Steering (Detroit Code 333---------423 = Powerflite only)
Detroit Code 353---------453--------3------------AG Custom
Detroit Code 355---------455--------5------------AG Convenience


I’m very interesting also about problem PF + PS and PF – PS, but numbers are a stubborn thing…
If to say simply – New Yorker and Windsor Powerflite transmissions have different ratios and different codes
2,7 and 4,64 on New Yorker vs. 2,6 and 4,47 on Windsor. Maybe the question hidden here?




(New Yorker specs.JPG)



(Windsor specs.JPG)



Attachments
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Attachments New Yorker specs.JPG (127KB - 300 downloads)
Attachments Windsor specs.JPG (138KB - 295 downloads)
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RDP
Posted 2020-06-11 7:23 AM (#599541 - in reply to #599540)
Subject: RE: 56 Dodge Custom Royal 4dr Sedan



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Thanks for corrections.

frwl - 2020-06-11 12:44 PM
I’m very interesting also about problem PF + PS and PF – PS, but numbers are a stubborn thing…
If to say simply – New Yorker and Windsor Powerflite transmissions have different ratios and different codes
2,7 and 4,64 on New Yorker vs. 2,6 and 4,47 on Windsor. Maybe the question hidden here?



Probably not, NY and Windsor ratio is different with and without PS. There should be four different codes.
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frwl
Posted 2020-06-11 1:47 PM (#599550 - in reply to #555178)
Subject: RE: 56 Dodge Custom Royal 4dr Sedan


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Find the old thread about Detroit-built order codes: «1955-1961 Chrysler 300.s Option Codes»

http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=17607&...

1955 C300 Options and Accessories

8 = Power Steering = $113
4 = 4 Way Power Seat = $70
2 = Electric Windows = $102
8 = Standard Tune Radio & Antenna = $110
1 = Touch Tune Radio & Antenna = $128
4 = Heater = $92
1 = Solex Tinted Glass
8 = Kelsey Hayes Wire Wheels = $617.60
1 = Electric Clock

1956 300B Option & Accessories

1 = Manual Shift Transmission = $70
5 = Air Conditioning = $567
1 = Electro Touchtone Radio & Antenna
3 = Music Master Radio with R-Seat Speaker
1 = Solex Tinted Glass
4 = 4 Way Power Seat
6 = Instant Heat Heater
4 = Custom Conditionaire Heater
3 = Self Winding Steering Wheel Clock
9 = Power Steering (auto transmission only) = $97
8 = Kelsey Hayes Wire Wheels
5 & 7 = Hi-Way Hi-Fi (portable record player)

Robert: I also found your old thread about well-equipped New Yorker (called Rosie)
It might be confirming some Detroit-built order codes as well…

http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=39393&...




(Rosie 1.jpg)



(Rosie 2.jpg)



(Rosie 3.jpg)



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Attachments Rosie 1.jpg (36KB - 304 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2020-06-11 7:14 PM (#599554 - in reply to #599515)
Subject: Re: 56 Dodge Custom Royal 4dr Sedan



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As if this thread isn't "FUN" (??!!) enough already, while discussing another 56 Dodge I discovered/realized that the later build Detroit 56 Dodges made a switch to the 57 Dodge style cowl data tags and gave up on the 1955
style that they had previously used. The earliest switch that I have in my archives is May 24 1956.

frwl (Igor) is thinking that 397 = D500 but I can not confirm or deny that except the second tag below is a known D500 car and the other one is not.

No idea what 597 or 596 are.

We now have 3 cowl tag styles for the 56 Dodges:

1. Original Detroit based on 55 Dodge tags
2. LA tags
3. Late(r) run Detroit tags looking like the 57 Dodge tags. (Does that make the 57 Dodge tags actually 56 Dodge tags?)





Edited by 56D500boy 2020-06-11 11:24 PM




(56DodgeCoronet2drGoldenLancerDetroitBuildTag_late.jpg)



(JeffPs1956WhiteBlackRedCR4drD500CowlTag_TrimmedAndEnlarged.jpg)



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Attachments 56DodgeCoronet2drGoldenLancerDetroitBuildTag_late.jpg (134KB - 299 downloads)
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RDP
Posted 2020-06-12 11:02 AM (#599565 - in reply to #599554)
Subject: Re: 56 Dodge Custom Royal 4dr Sedan



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This is not exactly what we are looking for, but look at the Excel attachment by Lancer Mike

http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=59085&...
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56D500boy
Posted 2020-06-12 1:56 PM (#599578 - in reply to #599565)
Subject: Re: 56 Dodge Custom Royal 4dr Sedan



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RDP - 2020-06-12 8:02 AM
This is not exactly what we are looking for, but look at the Excel attachment by Lancer Mike


Not what I was looking for but Lancer Mike should be congratulated for creating those Excel spreadsheets regarding the 1958 Body Data tags. That was a tonne of work. Way to go Mike!!

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RDP
Posted 2020-06-12 3:59 PM (#599581 - in reply to #599578)
Subject: Re: 56 Dodge Custom Royal 4dr Sedan



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d500neil - 2015-08-15 1:57 AM

1955-1956 Dodges: fairly well, but they SHARE a common IBM Build card, and their options, on those cards, are not clearly
defined.

The 56 and the 61 Dodges are the most difficult to decode.

Good lock, on decoding the other FWDLK years' codes.

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56D500boy
Posted 2020-06-12 6:42 PM (#599586 - in reply to #599581)
Subject: Re: 56 Dodge Custom Royal 4dr Sedan



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d500neil - 2015-08-15 1:57 AM
1955-1956 Dodges: fairly well, but they SHARE a common IBM Build card, and their options, on those cards, are not clearly
defined. The 56 and the 61 Dodges are the most difficult to decode.
Good lock, on decoding the other FWDLK years' codes.


If only Neil was alive so I could say "I couldn't agree with you more Neil. They are one h3LL of a B1tch"

Thanks for posting Robert.

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frwl
Posted 2020-06-20 4:23 AM (#599888 - in reply to #555178)
Subject: RE: 56 Dodge Custom Royal 4dr Sedan


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https://www.ebay.com/itm/1956-Dodge-D500-D500/174315969502?hash=item...





(IBM Card.jpg)



(front view.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments IBM Card.jpg (211KB - 291 downloads)
Attachments front view.jpg (203KB - 289 downloads)
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frwl
Posted 2020-06-20 4:32 AM (#599889 - in reply to #555178)
Subject: RE: 56 Dodge Custom Royal 4dr Sedan


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The column power equipment shows 342, that means power seat as stated by owner, and ending on the last «2»
It matches to ’56 Plymouth order code 402 – power seat
And does not match to code 344 in the Mike’ Petersen’s Book…
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56D500boy
Posted 2020-06-20 10:26 AM (#599895 - in reply to #599889)
Subject: RE: 56 Dodge Custom Royal 4dr Sedan



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frwl - 2020-06-20 1:32 AM.
The column power equipment shows 342, that means power seat as stated by owner, and ending on the last «2»
It matches to ’56 Plymouth order code 402 – power seat
And does not match to code 344 in the Mike’ Petersen’s Book…


It was only wishful thinking that Mike Petersen's 1955 Dodge order codes would work 100% for the 1956 Detroit Dodges so I am not too surprised.

The wagon does have power front seat but not power windows. But it does have PS and PB. It also has a code for "SPL MOTOR" (Special Motor) which
I presume is the D500 engine (which is -3509 from a previous advert for this car). Some of the interior (seat) fabric is wrong (replaced?)






Edited by 56D500boy 2020-06-20 10:31 AM




(68475103-770-0@2X.jpg)



(68475087-770-0@2X.jpg)



(EngineBay.jpg)



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Attachments 68475103-770-0@2X.jpg (140KB - 295 downloads)
Attachments 68475087-770-0@2X.jpg (125KB - 291 downloads)
Attachments EngineBay.jpg (184KB - 305 downloads)
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