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Introduction - New Member from North Ontario
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56RatKing
Posted 2018-02-08 8:36 PM (#557715)
Subject: Introduction - New Member from North Ontario


Member

Posts: 23

Hi Everyone.

I'm Brian, I live in North Bay ontario and I am the new owner of a 1956 Dodge Custom Royal. It's the Canadian version, has the 303 Plymouth 2BBL - with super red ram bading (go figure I know) . It's the 4 Door sedan version with the pushbutton powerflite transmission.

I traded a foxbody I had for it, it just appealed to me. I know cars, but not this one - looking forward to learning more about this awesome car.

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56RatKing
Posted 2018-02-08 10:09 PM (#557719 - in reply to #557715)
Subject: RE: Introduction - New Member from North Ontario


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Posts: 23

Model : D63-3-4 DOOR SEDAN
Body No : 4331
Paint Code : 1151
Trim Code : JAO
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-02-08 10:58 PM (#557721 - in reply to #557715)
Subject: RE: Introduction - New Member from North Ontario



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56RatKing - 2018-02-08 8:36 PM
I'm Brian, I live in North Bay ontario and I am the new owner of a 1956 Dodge Custom Royal. It's the Canadian version, has the 303 Plymouth 2BBL - with super red ram bading (go figure I know) . It's the 4 Door sedan version with the pushbutton powerflite transmission.


Hey Brian, how's it going, eh? (Hoser talk for the non- Canadians in the crowd)

I am in the Vancouver BC area and have a 56 Custom Royal 4dr sedan (since Sept. 2016) and have been on this forum since Oct. 2016.

There aren't many 56 Dodge folks on here in general. I am in contact with four others in the States and Europe who are on the forum fairly often. I am also in contact with two Canadians with 56 Dodges but they are Mayfairs and Regents, i.e. Plymouths with Dodge front clips and aren't on the forum very often. Nice cars all but not much in common with the 120 inch wheel base "American" 56 Dodges, i.e. the Coronets, Royals and Custom Royals. I wasn't aware that there were 56 Custom Royals that were built for Canada with the Plymouth 303 and not the 315 polyspherical (semi-hemi) Dodge engine that most of the US 56 Dodges got. My car has the D500 315 260 hp hemi from the factory.

In terms of getting you going, you might want to read through this thread that I started about how to find parts:

But first, go to this website and download the 55-58 Mopar parts pdf: http://www.mymopar.com/index.php?pid=107 It can be your new friend

and then you can read this:

http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=66548&...

Then go here and down load the 55-56 Plymouth service manual (to help with any engine issues that you might have):

http://www.mymopar.com/index.php?pid=109

I haven't found a free 56 Dodge Manual but I have bought a repro of the Factory Service Manual like this one (for under CDN$50)

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/1956-Dodge-Coronet-Custom-Royal-Shop-Service...

I've been posting some 56 Dodge-related magazine articles to this thread: Find them and have a read:

http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=67189&...

You need to post up photos of your car. If you need help, read this for hints:

http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=64340&...

That should get you started. Welcome and enjoy.



/Dave F





Edited by 56D500boy 2018-02-09 12:46 AM
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mikes2nd
Posted 2018-02-08 11:52 PM (#557723 - in reply to #557715)
Subject: Re: Introduction - New Member from North Ontario


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take of hoser! eh!

welcome
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56RatKing
Posted 2018-02-09 7:06 AM (#557734 - in reply to #557715)
Subject: Re: Introduction - New Member from North Ontario


Member

Posts: 23

Thanks for the welcome . Being a car guy I've done most of the leg work already to find my information. I have the plymouth service manual, but nowhere in it (of any year) can I find mention of the 303.

I've found where people said the 303 was in the car (and I definetly have a 303)

Here is a picture of my engine (the size is too big for the fourm directly) https://drive.google.com/file/d/1uF3lR3uWFJbncfOyZDxBY4BQ5_qv4F1E/vi...

It has the scalloped covers, and the design on the valve covers is from a 303.

I've found information on the canadian models having the 303 Here
https://www.allpar.com/world/canada.html

"In 1956, Dodge sold a Canadian Dodge Custom Royal based on the US Custom Royal. It used the 303 cid V8 engine, which was also used in the Canadian Chrysler Windsor and exported to Detroit for use in the Plymouth Fury. The Fury itself, available in the United States starting in 1957, was not made in Canada, but could be imported by dealers."

I also found a mention of the 303 here
https://www.allpar.com/mopar/a-engines.html

I also found a ton of brochures here http://www.lov2xlr8.no/dodge.html
and on oldcarmanualproject

None of the actual brochures or sales information shows anywhere that the 303 should be in there, nowhere except allpar says that. But its a 303 in my car alright. With super red ram badging and all.


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56RatKing
Posted 2018-02-09 7:13 AM (#557735 - in reply to #557715)
Subject: Re: Introduction - New Member from North Ontario


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Posts: 23

From what I can tell, aside from the engine also being in the fury - the 303 is a POS that's just taking up space in my engine bay. It's not a hemi, it's not a super red ram, or a red ram, or a super powered super red ram, just some pos 303 Plymouth that everyone forgot about after one year.

Kinda disappointing, as without a badged engine the car has no value.
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-02-09 8:27 AM (#557737 - in reply to #557735)
Subject: Re: Introduction - New Member from North Ontario



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"The 303 V8 was the same engine Plymouth had taken across the border in 1956 from the Windsor factory to hop up for its new Fury."

The Fury was no slouch. You might just have to get a 4bbl on there.



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Old Ray
Posted 2018-02-09 9:05 AM (#557738 - in reply to #557735)
Subject: Re: Introduction - New Member from North Ontario



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56RatKing - 2018-02-09 5:13 AM Kinda disappointing, as without a badged engine the car has no value.


Hi, and welcome from British Columbia. You sound like you know what you are doing and your disappointment over the lack of value is understandable, but that will taint your enjoyment of the car.

We all would all like for our cars to be of increasing value but that doesn't always happen, its just my subjective opinion, but I think it is a lot less stressful and disappointing to just enjoy the car for what it is, rather then as a investment
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56RatKing
Posted 2018-02-09 9:16 AM (#557739 - in reply to #557738)
Subject: Re: Introduction - New Member from North Ontario


Member

Posts: 23

Oh I hear you ray, and I'm happy to have a one year only style in 56 , and a US Dodge that someone got in Canada. It's a neat car for sure, just not really worth putting any time into it. I already have a Muscle Car Daily Driver, so I was hoping to at least have an early HEMI. A 303 Poly is useless. Intake manifolds to convert to a 4BBL cost more than I paid for the car, and are virtually non existent. Sure I could bore it out to a .318 and make it compatible with all that line and the wedges, but to what end you know ?

As the car is it's a rat rod, and that's how it will stay for the rest of it's life - Too bad really as I was looking forward to working on something cool, instead I'll just get my torch out and fix up the holes.

There is also ZERO service information available for the 303 - Not from Canadian Dodge, not from Plymouth, not From American Dodge, or Chrysler , Plymouth, or Desoto. I have not been able to locate mention of it in any type of service literature or brochure, all I can find is the annecdotal evidence from people here and there that yes indeed - the 303 engine was in 56 Canadian Dodge Custom Royals .

Honestly I'd be cheesed in 56 if I bought this thing, you pay the extra money to not have a plodge , you are expecting the super red ram.. they badge it as such.. but you didn't get anything anywhere close. What a scam by dodge canada !

Anyway, here is a link my google drive folder with pictures I've taken of it (They are too big in size for the forums)
https://drive.google.com/open?id=14QaGVqWFDB7F9XNLjdw2BGQwkvGIfYVn

Edited by 56RatKing 2018-02-09 9:23 AM
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56RatKing
Posted 2018-02-09 9:45 AM (#557743 - in reply to #557715)
Subject: Re: Introduction - New Member from North Ontario


Member

Posts: 23

More Info on the 303 for 56
4965CC
Bore 3.81 Stroke 3.31
Compression Ratio : 9.25:1
Long Duration High Lift Camshaft
High Load Valve Springs
High Speed Distributor
Reinforced Domed Pistons
Balanced Connecting Rods

Plymouth released a dealer-installed High
Performance Package in the spring of 1956. Retailing for $746.90, the kit included
dual four-barrels, special air cleaners, an aluminum intake manifold, and high
performance camshaft. This kit was available for both the 277ci. Belvedere V-8 and
the Fury 303ci. V-8. The kit raised the 277’s hp to 230 while upping the Fury’s 303
to 270hp.

By 57 the 303 was gone - so it was literally a one year only option that you could ONLY get on the Canadian Dodge custom Royal or on the Plymouth Fury (Belvy in 56 of course)

Edited by 56RatKing 2018-02-09 9:51 AM
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-02-09 10:14 AM (#557745 - in reply to #557715)
Subject: Re: Introduction - New Member from North Ontario



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It was a 1 year only motor, but only in displacement. Everything else is the same as the long standing 318. My '56 Savoy came with the 277, which was also a 1 year only displacement. No big deal. It ran great and got good fuel mileage. A great cruiser motor. I wanted a little more HP and pizzazz so I swapped a 331 hemi into the engine bay. You could do something similar if you like, or swap in a Dodge 315 hemi. But I do like the uniqueness of the original motor that is there. I am surprised that air cleaner isn't for a 4bbl. It's huge.

The '56 Belvedere received the 277 "A" motor in later cars or the 270 Dodge motor in earlier cars, in the states. To distinguish them apart, the 277 Plymouth motor air cleaner was painted yellow, and the 270 Dodge motor air cleaner was painted red. Only the '56 Fury received the 303. 1957 Plymouths also had 1 year only displacement of 301 cu in. for most of their product line. Only the '57 Fury had the 318. So '57 isn't much different than '56 in that respect.
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56RatKing
Posted 2018-02-09 10:32 AM (#557748 - in reply to #557715)
Subject: Re: Introduction - New Member from North Ontario


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Posts: 23

Yah the Air Cleaner is gigantic, but just a little 2BBL under there. It's actually a rebuilt 2BBL, even has the Mopar Approved Rebuilt Sticker right on it.

So for my Canadian 4 Door Royal
1 Year only for
Body Style
Powerflite Pushbutton
303 Engine with super red ram badging
303 with 2BBL and Single Exhaust

I seem to have a knack for finding weird production option cars. Either way I have a 62 year old car that I'm not likely to ever see another like it.
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-02-09 11:28 AM (#557751 - in reply to #557715)
Subject: Re: Introduction - New Member from North Ontario



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...and that makes it pretty cool.
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56RatKing
Posted 2018-02-09 11:34 AM (#557752 - in reply to #557715)
Subject: Re: Introduction - New Member from North Ontario


Member

Posts: 23

Oh I absolutely agree. Even when I was picking it up in the parking lot of the rona (we both brought a trailer and switched cars) I had 5 different people come up and ask to take a picture of it ! This was while it was on the trailer covered in salt to boot.

It gets compliments everywhere I take it.

I'm very happy with the exchange I made and what I got in return - just changes the scope of my project from a medium term to a long term.
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56RatKing
Posted 2018-02-09 3:02 PM (#557774 - in reply to #557715)
Subject: Re: Introduction - New Member from North Ontario


Member

Posts: 23

Number Cast onto the block on the left side under the head is
1630220

My Distributor is Stamped IBJ-4301A - Which shows for a Plaza or Coronet V8
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-02-09 4:31 PM (#557780 - in reply to #557774)
Subject: Re: Introduction - New Member from North Ontario



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Brian: You seem to be bummed out by the fact that your engine is not a hemi. *IF* it was a hemi, it would most likely have been a 270 as used in some 55 Dodges. It would be very unlikely to find it as a 315 D500 hemi in Northern Ontario. I found mine New Westminster but it was originally a Anacortes, Washington car before it was imported in the late 1980's in to Canada.

You seem to believe that "scalloped" valve covers = an inferior engine. In fact, it means that the 303 (actually 302.5 but who's counting) is a poly-spherical (aka "semi-hemi") head and the scallops are there to allow the spark plugs to enter the combustion chamber very close to but admittedly NOT right in the center. (See diagrams below) Furthermore, a single rocker head is much less complicated than the double-rocker hemis. Plus you have hydraulic lifters which are much quieter than solid lifters. So basically I am saying, don't worry, be happy.

As for no data and/or no service information, you just haven't found the correct service manual. What you need to find is this one which has lots of 303 info in it:



Edited by 56D500boy 2018-02-09 5:01 PM




(PolySphericalHeadDiagram_1_small.jpg)



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Attachments PolySphericalHeadDiagram_1_small.jpg (223KB - 5 downloads)
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56RatKing
Posted 2018-02-09 4:58 PM (#557782 - in reply to #557715)
Subject: Re: Introduction - New Member from North Ontario


Member

Posts: 23

Here is a picture of the engine with the Air Cleaner Off

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1pGd_BCI2uR6beyBVnmWjnrL15Q-hjr8G

@56D500

I was by no means looking for more power , as I said I drive a Muscle Car as my daily driver - I don't lack for that. Does scallops mean inferior engine ? No of course not, just inferior heads The A series is a great block, the 303 is just a stupid example of that block.

I'm more interested in the historical aspect of it, as how the US versions could get a HEMI in the custom royal, but canadians were told they got a super red ram, but did not - at all, hell they didn't even get a dodge freaking engine in their dodge car. Might as well have bought the plodge. You pay for the whole dodge package and get a one off plymouth engine that couldn't breathe properly - Not cool dodge.

My DD is also a Dodge, so I've got nothing but love - I'm just saying.
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-02-09 5:28 PM (#557784 - in reply to #557782)
Subject: Re: Introduction - New Member from North Ontario



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56RatKing - 2018-02-09 4:58 PM . Does scallops mean inferior engine ? No of course not, just inferior heads The A series is a great block, the 303 is just a stupid example of that block.
I'm more interested in the historical aspect of it, as how the US versions could get a HEMI in the custom royal


I can see that arguing with you, trying to tell you that you don't have terrible "stupid" engine is likely to be futile.

But I will try one more time

Maybe the 303 poly-spherical head didn't breathe as well as the 1956 315 hemi head but it was probably much better than the competition of the day, i.e. the 265 Chevy and the 272/292 Ford engines of 1956. Everything is relative.

As for your impression (or so it seems) that 315 hemi 56 American Dodges were very common, the answer is NOPE. I don't know how many D500 engines were actually made but I think it might be in the order of 5000 (WAG). (My May 56 build D500 is D500-4606, i.e. the 3606 D500 engine built and that was in May 56). But for arguments sake, lets say 5000 total. Based on Allpar production numbers, there were 233,686 Coronets, Royals, Custom Royals, Suburbans, and/or Sierras built for the 1956 model year. The D500 engine only became available across the board in March, 1956. So, at best, 1956 D500 cars only represented 2.5% of overall 1956 US Dodge production. So pretty rare, even in the US. The common 56 Dodge engines would have been the 8.0 to 1 compression 315 or 270 cu inch poly-spherical engines. I think a 303 is better than a 270. Just sayin'

I think that is all I have, so like I said earlier, don't worry, be happy.





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56RatKing
Posted 2018-02-09 6:49 PM (#557791 - in reply to #557715)
Subject: Re: Introduction - New Member from North Ontario


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Posts: 23

Heh I've read that brochure and there's so much I didn't notice until just now.

Custom Royal
- Came with standard Super-Powered Super Red Ram V8 4 BBL Dual Exhaust Special Manifold
- Optional Super Red Ram 315 8.0:1

Royal V-8
- Came with standard Super-Powered Super Red Ram V8 4 BBL Dual Exhaust Special Manifold
- Optional Super Red Ram 315 8.0:1

Coronet
- Came with standard Super-Powered Super Red Ram V8 4 BBL Dual Exhaust Special Manifold
- Optional RED RAM 8.0:1 270

Now since they mention it twice as an option , do we assume the Super Red Ram 315 is in fact the D-500 ?

So the RED RAM is a 270
The Super Red Ram is a 315
The Super-Powered Super Red Ram is Not Listed with a displacement

So somehow... all the base engines were the same, that doesn't make sense does it ? Why would the bottom of the line coronet share an engine with the flagship custom royal ?

So lets go back to 55

Custom Royal
- Super Red Ram V8 270 - No carb mentioned 183HP @ 4400 7.1:1 245 LB Torque
- No optional engine

Royal
- Red Ram V8 270 - No carb mentioned - 175HP @4400 7.6:1 240 LB Torque

Coronet
- - Red Ram V8 270 - No carb mentioned - 175HP @4400 7.6:1 240 LB Torque

In summary, I got a 303 2BBL Single Exhaust , when I should have AT LEAST a 4BBL and Dual Exhaust , and it can't be the 270.

So is the the Super-Powered Super Red Ram The 315 Poly in 1956 ?

Is the Super Red Ram the 315 HEMI Aka - D500 Package that became available to all models as of March 9th 1956 ??

Edited by 56RatKing 2018-02-09 6:59 PM
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-02-09 7:18 PM (#557794 - in reply to #557791)
Subject: Re: Introduction - New Member from North Ontario



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The D500 315 Hemi 4 bbl solid lifter engine was never called or labeled (with decals) Red Ram anything, Super or Super Duper or Super Duper Duper Pooper. Nothing. Just D500.

All those other engines were labeled by the boys in Marketing. The Coronet base engine was a six, all the Coronet V8s were options. Royals base engine was the smaller V8, other V8s were options. US Custom Royal base engine was a 2 bbl 315 Poly, other V8s were options.

I guess I need to make a table for the 56s like I made for the 57s, i.e. like this:





Edited by 56D500boy 2018-02-09 7:22 PM
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56RatKing
Posted 2018-02-09 7:28 PM (#557796 - in reply to #557794)
Subject: Re: Introduction - New Member from North Ontario


Member

Posts: 23

56D500boy - 2018-02-09 7:18 PM

The D500 315 Hemi 4 bbl solid lifter engine was never called or labeled (with decals) Red Ram anything, Super or Super Duper or Super Duper Duper Pooper. Nothing. Just D500.

All those other engines were labeled by the boys in Marketing. The Coronet base engine was a six, all the Coronet V8s were options. Royals base engine was the smaller V8, other V8s were options. US Custom Royal base engine was a 2 bbl 315 Poly, other V8s were options.

:)


Well .. no ?

It's right there in the brochure.. the thing they gave to people to sell them cars ? All the base engines are described in exactly the same way. They are all called the Super-Powered Super Red Ram. The brochure has no reason to lie.

So if the Super Red Ram is 8.0:1 315 and it costs extra and it's not a HEMI.. that means it must be a poly.. Okay that's cool

Then what is the Super-Powered Super Red Ram ? We know it's not the 270 Poly, we know it's not the 315 Poly, we know it's not the 315 HEMI.. so what the hell is it ?

Also, I hate to burst your bubble - But as quoted from https://www.allpar.com/model/d500.html

"For 1957, a Dodge brochure clearly stated that the “Super D-500 Engine” was “available at moderate extra cost on all models... "

EDIT :

Found an example of them calling the Super-Powered Super Red Ram the same thing as the D-500
http://hooniverse.com/2013/07/19/hooniverse-obscure-muscle-car-gara...

DOUBLE EDIT :
IN the Nov 1955 Edition Of Popular mechanics(Vol 104 No 5) they introduce the 1956 Dodge Lineup as follows " The new Super-Powered Super Red Ram V8, as it is called, develops 230 horsepower with its optional power pack, consisting of a four-barrel carburetor, dual exhausts. special manifolding and other high-power extras. Horsepower on the standard Super Red Ram V8 is 218 on the 315-cubic-inch engine. All Dodge V8 engines this year have a single rocker-arm shaft. The hemi-spheric-head double-shaft design has been dropped. Stroke is increased to 3.80 inches. Compression ratio is now 8.0:1. The smaller Coronet V8 has a 270-cubic-inch displacement, 8.0:1 compression ratio."

That issue of course coming out before the March 56 announcement of the D-500 option being available on all cars.



Edited by 56RatKing 2018-02-09 7:48 PM
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-02-09 8:03 PM (#557798 - in reply to #557794)
Subject: Re: Introduction - New Member from North Ontario



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56D500boy - 2018-02-09 7:18 PM

I guess I need to make a table for the 56s like I made for the 57s

:)


Something like this. Note that it is draft and needs more blanks filled in.





(56_USDodgeEngineOptionsDraft1.jpg)



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Attachments 56_USDodgeEngineOptionsDraft1.jpg (135KB - 7 downloads)
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56RatKing
Posted 2018-02-09 8:27 PM (#557800 - in reply to #557715)
Subject: Re: Introduction - New Member from North Ontario


Member

Posts: 23

Your chart makes perfect sense to me, but it conflicts with the information that is available.

The brochures, and the articles, and the annectodes can't come to a firm conclusion.

But perhaps having written the chart you can now see my original point of dodge ripping off Canadians. By your own chart - I should have a 315 Poly , but ONLY because the car was bought in Canada - Do I have a 303. Same poly heads, all the rest is the same - But they screwed me out of 13 Cubic inches

Edited by 56RatKing 2018-02-09 8:28 PM
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56RatKing
Posted 2018-02-09 8:33 PM (#557801 - in reply to #557715)
Subject: Re: Introduction - New Member from North Ontario


Member

Posts: 23

So we either believe your chart, or the 56 Dodge Brochure and Popular Mechanics
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-02-09 10:06 PM (#557806 - in reply to #557800)
Subject: Re: Introduction - New Member from North Ontario



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56RatKing - 2018-02-09 8:27 PM
But perhaps having written the chart you can now see my original point of dodge ripping off Canadians. By your own chart - I should have a 315 Poly , but ONLY because the car was bought in Canada - Do I have a 303. Same poly heads, all the rest is the same - But they screwed me out of 13 Cubic inches


Get over it. You got what you got. No big conspiracy thing going on, or at least not a new one. Canadian Chryco buyers always got something different than the American Mopar buyers got. Could have been worse. You could have got the 270 or 277 Poly.



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56D500boy
Posted 2018-02-10 1:29 AM (#557818 - in reply to #557715)
Subject: RE: Introduction - New Member from North Ontario



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56RatKing - 2018-02-08 8:36 PM I'm Brian, I live in North Bay ontario and I am the new owner of a 1956 Dodge Custom Royal. It's the Canadian version, has the 303 Plymouth 2BBL - with super red ram bading (go figure I know) . It's the 4 Door sedan version with the pushbutton powerflite transmission.


Brian: I just re-found the kijiji advert from the person you bought from/traded with. He was pretty clear about the engine:

" have available my 1956 Dodge Custom Royal Rat Rod Car has been painted in flat matte black Car has the original 303 Poly V-8 Engine that was put into Canadian Dodge Custom Royals - Also the same engine used in the original plymouth fury. If you lived in the US you couldn't get this engine until 1957, and then it was shipped from Canada."

Reference: https://www.kijiji.ca/v-classic-cars/north-bay/1956-dodge-custom-roy...



Edited by 56D500boy 2018-02-10 1:31 AM
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56RatKing
Posted 2018-02-10 10:36 AM (#557830 - in reply to #557715)
Subject: Re: Introduction - New Member from North Ontario


Member

Posts: 23

Actually thats my add that I posted after I gathered all the correct information. Funny how you tried to find a gotcha, and you just made yourself look foolish.

Get over it ? Thats just rude. I am entitled to feel however i want about it, and it doesn't affect you at all - so maybe just accept that you were wrong ?

I presented you with documented facts and you are butt hurt because it doesnt match up with your predetermined view of how things went ?

Facts are facts. You sure put up a lot of D-500 info from magazines and I guess those articles are legit and fact ? But mine aren't ? Gimme a break.


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56D500boy
Posted 2018-02-10 10:46 AM (#557833 - in reply to #557830)
Subject: Re: Introduction - New Member from North Ontario



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Brian: I know a lot more about 56 Dodges than you do and I am willing to share with you to your benefit.

Correction: *WAS* willing. Besides, you apparently know everything and don't need my help.

Have a nice life.

Dave F.


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