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Jackie's 1958 Belvedere
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Paul Hettick
Posted 2018-06-12 9:24 AM (#565080 - in reply to #561778)
Subject: RE: Jackie's 1958 Belvedere


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Jackie , I sent a pm with my phn #. I'm the prior owner. Can help with some issues and have some fun stories of that car.
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58Jackie
Posted 2018-06-21 1:36 AM (#565392 - in reply to #565012)
Subject: Re: Jackie's 1958 Belvedere



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mstrug - 2018-06-11 5:52 AM

The freeze plugs either popped out when the block froze or rusted away and fell out. You have a video of it running? I didn't. I was working on my car anyway so I removed my left fender and exhaust manifold to get to my trouble spot.


Yes, I had a video of it running. It was taken about a year before I bought the car.
Judging by how much rusty crap is in the motor and around the freeze plug holes, I'd say it had plain water in it for some time and that's how most of the damage happened - including the freeze plugs. There is 2 missing, one on passenger, the other on the drivers side.
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58Jackie
Posted 2018-06-21 1:42 AM (#565393 - in reply to #565033)
Subject: Re: Jackie's 1958 Belvedere



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ttotired - 2018-06-11 3:55 PM

Freeze plugs can be got at with the engine in, but it is hard (I did this on my dodge)

There isn't much room and you will need to remove the engine mounts and other bits and pieces

I used 2 hammers to reinstall the new plugs, 1 was an old claw hammer that I had to cut the claw off to make the head shorter

The engine meeds to be jacked up a bit to give room and buy more than 1 set, so if 1 or more pop back out, you have spares to put back

Good thing is, they are cheap.

I also found that the steel ones were better than the stainless steel ones (they kept popping out)

Have fun, its an awkward, messy uncomfortable job, but unless you really want to pull the engine, I wouldn't



As I just want to hear the original motor run before I decide if it needs a total rebuild or not (may go with a 440 then); I will be going with the temporary screw-in type freeze plugs. I dont have all that much room to swing a hammer to get the press in type in, just barely enough room to get a wrench in there.
I would probably have more room if I took the whole front end apart, but I want to do that about as much as I want to pull the motor - not very much.
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58Jackie
Posted 2018-06-21 1:53 AM (#565394 - in reply to #565035)
Subject: Re: Jackie's 1958 Belvedere



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ttotired - 2018-06-11 4:23 PM

Just read the rest of it, I wish you well with your project

As for the engine choice, the 318 can look pretty nice without it costing "too" much (nothing cheap about this era mopar) and go well enough to satisfy most urges

If you want to be the fastest car on the street, thats a whole new can of worms

The trans should be ok, but may need resealing (fatsco have all the seals in a kit) as for the buttons, go buy some felt and make new seals that go around the buttons, its the seals that stop them falling off.

This engine was basically a stock build except for a very mild cam, the 2x4 set up and electronic ignition



I do want to hear the original motor run first, and to tell me if it needs a total rebuild or not.
If it will need to be rebuilt, I am planning to build a 440 to put in it, in the neighborhood of 500 horses.

Where did you get the cam at for your motor? I researched that you have to have a special one custom made?

As for the pushbuttons, you must've read above that I had the pushbuttons fall out when I went through the gears.
When I worked on that, it does have the felt gasket. It seems that where the point of them falling of at it when the plastic indicator piece clips onto the metal shift linkage.
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58Jackie
Posted 2018-06-21 1:59 AM (#565395 - in reply to #565056)
Subject: Re: Jackie's 1958 Belvedere



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jboymechanic - 2018-06-11 9:37 PM

Don't be discouraged, your engine is telling you it's time to be cleaned out. This should be viewed as a good preventative maintenance exercise. Thoroughly flush the block while poking around inside the block with a long screw driver, you will be impressed by the amount of crap you get to fall out. Keep flushing and poking until the water comes out clear (at least mostly). Then fill it up with coolant and rust inhibitor and you'll have piece of mind.


I was attempting to do that when I learned (the hard way) that I had the 2 freeze plugs out. I had already flushed out the radiator (it leaks too) and moved onto flushing the block out by pouring plain water down the water inlet.
Made about one of the biggest messes in my garage when all the water starts flowing out of the freeze plugs. I did have a bucket under the water pump outlet, no water even bothered to flow out where it was supposed to.
I plan to flush it out more when I have freeze plugs back in. Hopefully I find no more leaks then.
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58Jackie
Posted 2018-06-25 12:42 AM (#565561 - in reply to #561778)
Subject: Re: Jackie's 1958 Belvedere



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So I've moved (for the time being) onto getting the fuel system straightened out as I still had the little bit of bad fuel still in the tank. I am still going to drop it as the stuff that came out was disgusting, so I will need to properly flush it out.

Few questions...

Is it ok to hot tank the fuel tank?

Is the sender (most likely should replace) the 73-10 ohms?

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Powerflite
Posted 2018-06-25 9:39 AM (#565582 - in reply to #561778)
Subject: Re: Jackie's 1958 Belvedere



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The sender should be 15-200 ohms. You can get new ones with the proper range through Vans on ebay. But make sure it lists that range on there as people try to sell the smaller range versions to us.
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mstrug
Posted 2018-06-25 12:39 PM (#565587 - in reply to #561778)
Subject: Re: Jackie's 1958 Belvedere



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There are fuel tank shops out there, check the radiator shop ads too. they will clean them if feasible. Other wise Vans has one for $275.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mopar-57-58-59-Chrysler-300-gas-tank-fuel-t...

Edited by mstrug 2018-06-25 12:40 PM
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58Jackie
Posted 2018-06-25 12:44 PM (#565588 - in reply to #565582)
Subject: Re: Jackie's 1958 Belvedere



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Powerflite - 2018-06-25 8:39 AM

The sender should be 15-200 ohms. You can get new ones with the proper range through Vans on ebay. But make sure it lists that range on there as people try to sell the smaller range versions to us.


I didn't find too many options for that 15-200 ohms sender.

Is it possible to go with a different ohm reading, as I do plan to use aftermarket gauges (except speedo) anyhow.
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-06-25 1:24 PM (#565591 - in reply to #561778)
Subject: Re: Jackie's 1958 Belvedere



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If you have an aftermarket gauge, then use a sender that matches it. But Vans does sell a sender in the 10-70 range too.
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mstrug
Posted 2018-06-25 4:40 PM (#565597 - in reply to #561778)
Subject: Re: Jackie's 1958 Belvedere



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Oh Reeeeaaallly:

Says Chrysler, but will work. Don't buy one for a wagon and you will be o.k.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1957-58-59-Chrysler-Mopar-Fuel-Tank-5-16-Se...

NOS: See how it fit all our cars...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mopar-NOS-1957-59-Plymouth-Dodge-59-Windsor...

Edited by mstrug 2018-06-25 4:52 PM
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mstrug
Posted 2018-06-25 4:52 PM (#565598 - in reply to #561778)
Subject: Re: Jackie's 1958 Belvedere



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Another:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1957-1958-1959-Chrysler-5-16-Fuel-Sending-U...
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-06-25 5:16 PM (#565600 - in reply to #561778)
Subject: Re: Jackie's 1958 Belvedere



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The last one you posted that doesn't specify the resistance range, is the lower 10-70ohm version. If it doesn't explicitly state that it goes to 210 ohms, it doesn't.
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58Jackie
Posted 2018-07-06 1:26 AM (#566104 - in reply to #565591)
Subject: Re: Jackie's 1958 Belvedere



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Powerflite - 2018-06-25 12:24 PM

If you have an aftermarket gauge, then use a sender that matches it. But Vans does sell a sender in the 10-70 range too.


Ok thanks! That's a great help!

I do plan to use aftermarket gauges, except the speedo.
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58Jackie
Posted 2018-07-06 1:27 AM (#566105 - in reply to #561778)
Subject: Re: Jackie's 1958 Belvedere



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One of the many steps into getting her running is the fuel. I know John had her running off an external can, most easiest way, and I'd probably do the same if it weren't for something that I'll have to do anyhow.
So I'm in the process of getting the tank out.
A long dragged out process, as this car's personality is down right STUBBORN on everything.

I already tried using the nut/bolt to remove the tank. It seems that how the straps are curved next to the bolt, there's no way you can get a socket on it. An open end wrench gets stuck against the strap.
I tried forcing it, ended up in a losing battle, as the bracket that's secured to the body twisted up badly. The bolt however, didn't budge.

Now I'm getting serious. Or some may say, mad, at this bolt.
Out comes the hacksaw and I'm working at these 2 bolts. I don't want to take a grinder to it, as its so close to the tank.

Wow, gotta love rusted/froze on bolts.
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big m
Posted 2018-07-06 11:22 AM (#566123 - in reply to #561778)
Subject: Re: Jackie's 1958 Belvedere



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Jackie,

Have you drained the tank? If there's still fuel in the tank it may come crashing down when you cut the 2nd bolt,

There is a drain plug in the bottom of the tank, it takes a 1/2 inch drive ratchet to remove, or use a short extension on your ratchet for extra clearance. Be sure to have a pan or bucket ready!


You'll need to remove the rubber grommet at the fuel fill, to allow the filler tube to slip downwards, also have the car jacked up substantially so you can remove the tank with the tube attached from beneath the car, it will be easier to remove the filler tube once it's out of the car, on something that has set this long.

---John
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bad58mike
Posted 2018-07-06 4:00 PM (#566137 - in reply to #561778)
Subject: Re: Jackie's 1958 Belvedere



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My 2cents don’t do a 440

There gray engines don’t get me wrong but unless your building a race car I wouldn’t bother . I had a 440 build for my 58 and it’s cool and all but more problems than it’s worth. I’m having the darnest time keeping it cool. She runs hot in traffic or a hot day.

Personally if I could do it over I’d build a 318,361,0r 383 tops all day long
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bad58mike
Posted 2018-07-06 4:05 PM (#566138 - in reply to #561778)
Subject: Re: Jackie's 1958 Belvedere



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Congrats great find by the way
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bad58mike
Posted 2018-07-06 4:07 PM (#566139 - in reply to #561778)
Subject: Re: Jackie's 1958 Belvedere



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Typo sorry meant

Great engines
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58Jackie
Posted 2018-07-18 12:36 AM (#566771 - in reply to #566123)
Subject: Re: Jackie's 1958 Belvedere



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big m - 2018-07-06 10:22 AM

Jackie,

Have you drained the tank? If there's still fuel in the tank it may come crashing down when you cut the 2nd bolt,

There is a drain plug in the bottom of the tank, it takes a 1/2 inch drive ratchet to remove, or use a short extension on your ratchet for extra clearance. Be sure to have a pan or bucket ready!


You'll need to remove the rubber grommet at the fuel fill, to allow the filler tube to slip downwards, also have the car jacked up substantially so you can remove the tank with the tube attached from beneath the car, it will be easier to remove the filler tube once it's out of the car, on something that has set this long.

---John


On the drain plug, its recessed in there (female end) where I'd have to get a special type tool to get it out. I tried that, but the problem is, its a star like pattern on the plug, and the tool I got is a standard. It wont work...

What type of tool do you use?

I used a siphon pump to get most of the stuff out of the tank. (it was only about a 1/2 gallon)
I'm using jackstands to hold the tank up while I'm cutting the bolts.
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58Jackie
Posted 2018-07-18 12:37 AM (#566772 - in reply to #566137)
Subject: Re: Jackie's 1958 Belvedere



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bad58mike - 2018-07-06 3:00 PM

My 2cents don’t do a 440

There gray engines don’t get me wrong but unless your building a race car I wouldn’t bother . I had a 440 build for my 58 and it’s cool and all but more problems than it’s worth. I’m having the darnest time keeping it cool. She runs hot in traffic or a hot day.

Personally if I could do it over I’d build a 318,361,0r 383 tops all day long


What core size of radiator are you running with the 440?
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big m
Posted 2018-07-18 11:34 AM (#566799 - in reply to #561778)
Subject: Re: Jackie's 1958 Belvedere



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The drain plug is an eight-point type, use the square end on a 1/2" drive extension or ratchet, it'll fit perfectly.
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matte
Posted 2018-07-18 11:42 PM (#566839 - in reply to #561778)
Subject: Re: Jackie's 1958 Belvedere



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Finally got your dream car and looks like a good one.. Still have your 59 Chev?

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58Jackie
Posted 2018-07-23 12:14 AM (#567043 - in reply to #561778)
Subject: Re: Jackie's 1958 Belvedere



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FUEL TANK FUN!

So I finally managed to get the fuel tank out by cutting the bolts. Unfortunately, I damaged the brackets the straps attach to. They're severely twisted around in the direction that I was trying to loosen the bolts. I don't trust the integral strength of them anymore (already thin poorly designed bracket to begin with), and I for sure don't want the tank falling out when its full of gas.

So I plan to get a welder out there to weld on a good L bracket; one side welded to the body, the other side hanging down in place of where the original bracket was.


My other more serious problem is that I found a little surprise when I dropped the tank. First off before I say this, this car has zero rust anywhere; been in Sacramento CA her whole life as far as I know.
So I have a golf ball sized rust hole in the tank (you can see inside the tank) and a 5 inch area around it that's sacrificed (very spongy metal). Its around the filler tube.
I'm still unsure how the tube removes from the tank, but I don't want to even try now as it would most likely rip out all that surrounding metal. You can move the tube without much pressure and watch the metal on the tank move with it. Its very bad...

I'm going to have it hot tanked to 1 remove all the crap that's in the bottom of the tank (initial plan), and 2nd to remove the loose rust.

Plan A with this tank is see if I can salvage it and have it welded.

Plan B is a good suitable "new" tank.


By the way, the area around where the rust is on the tank, there is absolutely no rust on the floorpan. You can still see some shiny good metal. Makes me wonder....


Edited by 58Jackie 2018-07-23 12:19 AM
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58Jackie
Posted 2018-07-23 12:23 AM (#567044 - in reply to #566799)
Subject: Re: Jackie's 1958 Belvedere



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big m - 2018-07-18 10:34 AM

The drain plug is an eight-point type, use the square end on a 1/2" drive extension or ratchet, it'll fit perfectly.


Wow, now I'm mad at self as I drained it the much harder way before I dropped it! I used a siphon hand pump that worked, but not fun.

I now know why I couldn't get that plug out. I was using a 9/16 size large allen wrench. A no-go.........
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58Jackie
Posted 2018-07-23 12:26 AM (#567045 - in reply to #566839)
Subject: Re: Jackie's 1958 Belvedere



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matte - 2018-07-18 10:42 PM

Finally got your dream car and looks like a good one.. Still have your 59 Chev?



Thanks Matte! Yeah my dad took the 59 over, now his, I don't have time for that anymore now with this. Must say, this is my dream car and that makes it much more fun.
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-07-23 9:05 AM (#567060 - in reply to #561778)
Subject: Re: Jackie's 1958 Belvedere



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If the tank is that bad, you will be better off purcahsing a brand new one for $275. You can get them from Vans Auto on ebay. The only issue with them is that the inlet that the pipe goes into may be too small, and needs to be opened up a little to fit the pipe in there properly. So try it out ahead of time, without the gasket.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mopar-57-58-59-Chrysler-300-gas-tank-fuel-t...

Edited by Powerflite 2018-07-23 9:08 AM
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58Jackie
Posted 2018-07-25 12:53 AM (#567152 - in reply to #567060)
Subject: Re: Jackie's 1958 Belvedere



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Powerflite - 2018-07-23 8:05 AM

If the tank is that bad, you will be better off purcahsing a brand new one for $275. You can get them from Vans Auto on ebay. The only issue with them is that the inlet that the pipe goes into may be too small, and needs to be opened up a little to fit the pipe in there properly. So try it out ahead of time, without the gasket.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mopar-57-58-59-Chrysler-300-gas-tank-fuel-t...



Thank you! I already contacted John (Big M) to see what he's got for a factory one.
That one on ebay, says 23 gallons. Wasn't the factory ones 20 gallons, or am I mistaken?

Edited by 58Jackie 2018-07-25 12:55 AM
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mstrug
Posted 2018-07-25 5:03 AM (#567155 - in reply to #561778)
Subject: Re: Jackie's 1958 Belvedere



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I believe 2 tanks were offered.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/9-pc-Fuel-Tank-Tank-Bracket-Fill-Seal-Set-f...
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58Jackie
Posted 2018-07-27 12:58 AM (#567275 - in reply to #567155)
Subject: Re: Jackie's 1958 Belvedere



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Thanks Marc; I believe I have a tank for me from John.

Edited by 58Jackie 2018-07-27 1:00 AM
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58Jackie
Posted 2018-08-23 12:40 AM (#568889 - in reply to #561778)
Subject: Re: Jackie's 1958 Belvedere



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I'm at a sort of slow period as far as posting progress because I am stripping off the undercoating and years of accumulated road debris on the underside (probably from when she was daily driven) to get it ready for paint. There's no rust to deal with, but the road grime doesn't look too pretty... I figured that with the tank still out, it was the time to do some cleaning up.
The undercoating brings me to another question... My car only has undercoating from the rear axle back. There is no undercoating from that point forward. It appears to be factory this way, as you can see the undercoating underneath the frame areas where the car has been undercoated, but there it has not there is no undercoating even under the frame.
Anyone else's cars like this???
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58Jackie
Posted 2018-09-03 12:20 AM (#569482 - in reply to #561778)
Subject: Re: Jackie's 1958 Belvedere



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I will be replacing the steel fuel line that runs from the tank to the pump in the near future. Does anybody know if there is a pre formed line kit out there or am I going to have to make one myself? Any good suppliers out there that you guys recommend?

So what about the routing issue? I've seen that its one very long one piece unit; any good tips from those that have done this the best way to do it? Would sectioning up the steel line and joining it by rubber line in the curved areas be an ok idea?
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60 Imp
Posted 2018-09-03 6:34 AM (#569503 - in reply to #569482)
Subject: Re: Jackie's 1958 Belvedere


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Hey Jackie, thanks for the update, keep the posts coming.

Look here for pre-formed fuel and brake lines for your car. You might want both? You get to choose either steel or stainless.

Steve,

https://www.inlinetube.com/brake-fuel-lines

Edited by 60 Imp 2018-09-03 6:36 AM
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58Jackie
Posted 2018-09-13 1:06 AM (#570035 - in reply to #569503)
Subject: Re: Jackie's 1958 Belvedere



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60 Imp - 2018-09-03 5:34 AM

Hey Jackie, thanks for the update, keep the posts coming.

Look here for pre-formed fuel and brake lines for your car. You might want both? You get to choose either steel or stainless.

Steve,

https://www.inlinetube.com/brake-fuel-lines


Thanks!
Yes they do have pre formed lines for a 58 Belvedere. I will be redoing the fuel system first, then onto the brake system; they have the lines for both, so good news there.


Does anyone know the proper factory size for the fuel line? I thought it was a 1/4" size (could be wrong), and inline tube has a 5/16" size listed. I'm confused...
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-09-13 2:15 PM (#570050 - in reply to #561778)
Subject: Re: Jackie's 1958 Belvedere



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Factory size is 5/16".
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58Jackie
Posted 2018-10-28 3:06 AM (#572501 - in reply to #561778)
Subject: Re: Jackie's 1958 Belvedere



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Sadly, working on Christine again wont happen soon. I was in the process of replacing the long fuel line and put the new tank in. Then put disc brakes in, and work on the drivetrain and install a 440/727 tranny.
I was working dedicatedly on this as I am REALLY looking forward to getting her running under 440 power.

But NO! My daily driver, 86 Caprice, took a crap (other words, but cant use here). I am without my own wheels currently the original dog 305 went to burnt black toast over the past week of driving it to/from work. I wouldn't call it even driving, more of the less limping along 25 mph or less as that's all she'll do. Now wont even do that, cant get the thing out of the driveway without it dieing.
I thought I was just having carb issues as I had rough idle, shuddering (shakes the whole car), missing, stumbling, dieseling on and stalling.
I replaced the carb with a new one and had the exact same issues even after adjusting the idle and mix screws, if not worse.

Not carb. Something not very good? definitely.
To the list of problems, I had valve guide seals going if it hadn't run in a while it would always go away after a minute or so.
Now it doesn't go away, and not upon startup either. Now it burns oil badly when the rpm increases. That only tells me one thing, that I have piston rings that are shot.
I know that this isn't a joking matter as this was my only car for daily transportation and now I'm screwed, but what all the bad smoking my car is doing reminds me of the Christine movie when Christine was smoking super bad. My car is doing that now, if not worse. I felt like someone was going to call the fire dept. on me as I was getting very funny looks from passerbys.


Now have to spend the time putting a 350 in it as these 305s were real junk even when running right. I don't want to get rid of this car as it does mean something to me that I bought myself (that my dad didn't buy for me hoping I'd give up Christine, that's what the 59 chevy was).
It just means that Christine has to be put on hold for a couple months before I can get my daily fixed.

Just letting you guys know whats up when you haven't heard anything of the progress with Christine................


Just letting you guys know whats up
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-10-29 1:02 AM (#572546 - in reply to #561778)
Subject: Re: Jackie's 1958 Belvedere



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Make sure you have the right amount of oil in the motor. My hemi acted the same way when I accidentally had 12 quarts of oil in it.
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