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Advice on swapping out my 361
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drosera88
Posted 2018-04-20 2:44 PM (#561984)
Subject: Advice on swapping out my 361



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So the 361 in my 61 Windsor is starting to show it's age, and ever since I got the car, I've wanted to do a swap for a larger engine with more options for aftermarket performance parts. My first choice would have been a 426 hemi but I think that's a bit outside my budget. The more likely options I've narrrowed down are a 413, 426 wedge, an earlier hemi, or the 440. My biggest concern is keeping the car original looking on the outside (no scoop or hood modifications) and not messing with the transmission (I like the push buttons and do not want to cut a hole in the floor boards for a shifter) outside of an adapter. Also, this would be my first venture into engine swapping, so the simpler the better. I figure the 413 would be the easiest since it was an option in 61, but if a 440 or 426 could be dropped in without too much trouble, I'd definitely rather have one of those instead. A 392 Hemi would also be nice, but I'm leaning more toward a newer engine. 

All help greatly appreciated. This would be my first swap and my mechanic would be helping me out with this because I don't want to royally screw this up. I'd also be getting a rebuildible used motor rather than a crate so for the sake of saving money and learning how to rebuild an engine. 

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BigBlockMopar
Posted 2018-04-20 2:55 PM (#561985 - in reply to #561984)
Subject: Re: Advice on swapping out my 361



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If you don't want to change the trasnsmission then you must pick/find a pre '62 engine, because you need the special rear 'long-flange' crank they have.
Or if you want to rebuild an engine, you can use all the parts from a newer one but you still need to find a long-flange crank so the original stall convertor will bolt on to it.

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Mopar1
Posted 2018-04-21 8:47 AM (#562012 - in reply to #561985)
Subject: Re: Advice on swapping out my 361



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BigBlockMopar - 2018-04-20 1:55 PM

If you don't want to change the trasnsmission then you must pick/find a pre '62 engine, because you need the special rear 'long-flange' crank they have.
Or if you want to rebuild an engine, you can use all the parts from a newer one but you still need to find a long-flange crank so the original stall convertor will bolt on to it.

Yup, except it has to be a pre'62 big block to keep the tranny. Or get a later engine, big or small block, & tranny. Parts for the 383, 440 & 400 would be cheaper than the 413/426W. A 360 would be a better choice than the 361.
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wayfarer
Posted 2018-04-21 9:34 AM (#562015 - in reply to #561984)
Subject: Re: Advice on swapping out my 361



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You can use any of the B&RB engines as long as you use a pre-62 crank. The block bolt pattern did not change.
If you want to use a late 440 then find a pre-62 413 crank. You could also use a late 400 block and use your existing 361 crank....
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drosera88
Posted 2018-04-21 10:43 AM (#562024 - in reply to #562015)
Subject: Re: Advice on swapping out my 361



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So basically the crankshaft is the only real compatibility issue with the transmission on a newer B/RB 440? And I can source a crank from any pre 62 413 with no issues? What about the motor mounts? Will I need new mounts or will my existing mounts work?
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RUSTORICHES
Posted 2018-04-21 6:00 PM (#562039 - in reply to #561984)
Subject: Re: Advice on swapping out my 361


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You may want to explore an option not often discussed by most you could 1/2 and 1/2 the torque converter (The old side to the crank of coarse and the the new to fit the your transmission.

Edited by RUSTORICHES 2018-04-21 6:01 PM
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LostDeere59
Posted 2018-04-21 7:30 PM (#562042 - in reply to #562024)
Subject: Re: Advice on swapping out my 361



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I'm looking at the same situation with my 60 Desoto which has a 361 and the iron Torqueflite. Because of the various compatibility issues surrounding the crankshaft/torque converter, the availability issues with the torque converter including the non-existence of anything other than stock, and just general availability of service/rebuild parts for the iron Torqueflite, I figured updating to a newer, more standard big block and aluminum Torqueflite would be the easiest and most original in appearance and function.

To that end (and by opportunity and happenstance) I acquired a 1964 Dodge 880 which has a 383 and aluminum Torqueflite. The 383 is "standard" n all the meaningful ways, and the trans is as well, except that it still has the pushbutton functionality. The only downside, and an issue you haven't touched on, is the parking brake. On the later trans the parking brake had been moved to the rear axle, which would/will require updating the rear axle/brakes as well (which I intend to do anyhow).

Of course the suggested small block/OD trans has appeal as well, and I've been considering that too.

It's mostly a question of how far you want to go, and where you want to be when you get there.

For the short term I've decided to do an electronic ignition upgrade, drop on a 4 bbl manifold and new or newish aftermarket carb, and go over the stock trans (linkage, bands, etc) to give me some dependability and driveablity improvements.


Gregg

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wayfarer
Posted 2018-04-23 10:00 AM (#562112 - in reply to #562024)
Subject: Re: Advice on swapping out my 361



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drosera88 - 2018-04-21 7:43 AM

So basically the crankshaft is the only real compatibility issue with the transmission on a newer B/RB 440? And I can source a crank from any pre 62 413 with no issues? What about the motor mounts? Will I need new mounts or will my existing mounts work?


...blocks are the same, so pretty simple swap, as far as swaps go... Your biggest challenge will be finding an early 413 crank.
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49pair
Posted 2018-04-23 11:19 AM (#562117 - in reply to #561984)
Subject: Re: Advice on swapping out my 361


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Just a reminder, if you use a different crankshaft, be sure to have the engine rebalanced. The 400 and the later 440 both used cast cranks that were externally balanced.
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57chizler
Posted 2018-04-23 1:13 PM (#562122 - in reply to #562042)
Subject: Re: Advice on swapping out my 361



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LostDeere59 - 2018-04-21 4:30 PM

The only downside, and an issue you haven't touched on, is the parking brake. On the later trans the parking brake had been moved to the rear axle


The one exception being the '62 full-sized car 727 which retained the tail-mounted parking brake. Ideal for swapping newer motors into the PB shifted FL's.
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57burb
Posted 2018-04-24 10:55 AM (#562186 - in reply to #561984)
Subject: Re: Advice on swapping out my 361



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This is why people build Chevrolets!!
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-04-26 4:55 PM (#562335 - in reply to #561984)
Subject: Re: Advice on swapping out my 361



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True. The fact that a chevy trans from a straight 6 will bolt up to a big block or small block from '55-up had a big influence on their popularity during the '70's and 80's. Make the swaps easy and people will gravitate to them. I don't think most engineers & managers understood that phenomenon well - and still don't for the most part.
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drosera88
Posted 2018-04-27 5:39 PM (#562379 - in reply to #562042)
Subject: Re: Advice on swapping out my 361



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LostDeere59 - 2018-04-21 6:30 PM The only downside, and an issue you haven't touched on, is the parking brake. On the later trans the parking brake had been moved to the rear axle, which would/will require updating the rear axle/brakes as well (which I intend to do anyhow).

I actually have a 66 Plymouth rear end in my Windsor, so the old Plymouth brakes are in place (and they work), but not connected. After reading everything people posted, I'm strongly considering just buying a complete motor and tranny combo to simplify things. I'd have to redo the drive shaft though, and I'd also have to make sure that the tranny I use can be made to work with the push buttons. 

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FINS!
Posted 2018-04-27 7:35 PM (#562384 - in reply to #562042)
Subject: Re: Advice on swapping out my 361


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Sorry to jump in guys but are any of you going to be selling your old 361s?
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drosera88
Posted 2018-04-27 9:24 PM (#562391 - in reply to #562384)
Subject: Re: Advice on swapping out my 361



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FINS! - 2018-04-27 6:35 PM Sorry to jump in guys but are any of you going to be selling your old 361s?

I will when it is out, but I'm thinking that the engine swap is still at least 6 months to a year out. I want to finish the interior, floors, and rockers first. 

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57chizler
Posted 2018-04-28 1:05 PM (#562426 - in reply to #562335)
Subject: Re: Advice on swapping out my 361



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Powerflite - 2018-04-26 1:55 PM

True. The fact that a chevy trans from a straight 6 will bolt up to a big block or small block from '55-up had a big influence on their popularity during the '70's and 80's. Make the swaps easy and people will gravitate to them.


I prefer the word sheep rather than "people".
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Mopar1
Posted 2018-04-29 12:25 PM (#562473 - in reply to #562426)
Subject: Re: Advice on swapping out my 361



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57chizler - 2018-04-28 12:05 PM

Powerflite - 2018-04-26 1:55 PM

True. The fact that a chevy trans from a straight 6 will bolt up to a big block or small block from '55-up had a big influence on their popularity during the '70's and 80's. Make the swaps easy and people will gravitate to them.


I prefer the word sheep rather than "people".
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Pops62
Posted 2018-07-15 5:16 PM (#566645 - in reply to #561984)
Subject: RE: Advice on swapping out my 361


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I am working through putting a 68 440 into my 62 dodge 880
I spoke with 727 specialist this week and they told me they could change the front pump and shaft and rebuild the 62 with later model parts and make it compatible to the newer engine and keep it push button
This would give you more converter options.
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BigBlockMopar
Posted 2018-07-15 5:26 PM (#566647 - in reply to #561984)
Subject: Re: Advice on swapping out my 361



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The '62 transmission is already compatible.
All newer-style bigblocks will accept any 62-and newer convertors.

It are the pre-62 transmissions (The cast iron ones) that are the incompatible ones, where the crankshaft is bolted directly to the convertor at the crank flange.

The 'only' issue with early and late convertors is the spline count, which changed in '65 I recall.
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