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56 Coronet D500 - maybe
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-07-07 11:52 AM (#566216)
Subject: 56 Coronet D500 - maybe



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Location: Lower Mainland BC
Found this on eBay on my first "(1956 Dodge)" search since I went on holidays on June 13th.

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/1956-Dodge-Coronet/113126397865?hash=item1a5...



As I went through the photos, I found some glaring issues, i.e. the colour of the valve covers and the air cleaner and the "Super Red Ram" decal on the valve covers. Naturally, I could not let it pass so I contacted the seller with the following:

"Nice car. However, if it really is a D500, you should show the engine number on the block, just at the front of the valley pan, by the oil filler. Also, the D500 valve covers were NOT silver. They were a special red, as was the air cleaner. The wire covers were black. And there was no "Super Red Ram" decals. The Super Red Ram was a 230 hp 4 bbl polyspherical (not hemi) engine. "Hemie" is wrong. It is just "Hemi". See attached photo of my 56 D500 engine."

Mine:



His:



Edited by 56D500boy 2018-07-07 11:54 AM
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2018-07-07 1:21 PM (#566219 - in reply to #566216)
Subject: RE: 56 Coronet D500 - maybe



50005000500050002000100252525
Location: Parts Unknown
With so few detail resources available to the non-specialist car guy, it is
more likely than not that people with rebuild or paint these up wrong. If
it was a Chevy, there are endless sources to contact to learn exactly how
a special car was detailed originally. With a Dodge, .... yeah. With a
DeSoto ? Even worse.

I would never expect the average bear to get details like these right.
Nevermind the guys who purposely do it as they like it, with no thought
given to factory spec.
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56RatKing
Posted 2018-07-08 12:46 PM (#566277 - in reply to #566216)
Subject: RE: 56 Coronet D500 - maybe


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Well he has the right engine for the D-500, but the wrong colors. That's an original aircleaner sticker for the 315 Poly version.

THe paint does look fresh though, so maybe he painted over the original red ?
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-07-08 12:52 PM (#566278 - in reply to #566277)
Subject: RE: 56 Coronet D500 - maybe



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Location: Lower Mainland BC
56RatKing - 2018-07-08 12:46 PM

Well he has the right engine for the D-500, but the wrong colors. That's an original aircleaner sticker for the 315 Poly version.
The paint does look fresh though, so maybe he painted over the original red ?


I've been in contact with the seller. He bought it that way. He says the engine number is a D500, so that part of the story is correct. I have been trying to educate him on the engine bay colours for a D500 but he is suggesting that ONLY the 2 x 4 bbl versions had the red valve covers - which is wrong.

He has also told me that the build date was "August 55" - which - if correct (might be a mistake) - it would make the car a clone. The D500 package wasn't even announced to the public until Dec. 1955.

At this point, I am very skeptical of the provenance of this car.

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56RatKing
Posted 2018-07-08 1:41 PM (#566281 - in reply to #566278)
Subject: RE: 56 Coronet D500 - maybe


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@D500Boy

Maybe weird question, but does your D500 have the ForwardLookerang Embossed with the "Dogdge" on your speaker panel on the dash ? EDIT : Forgot you had a custom royal so you'd have it regardless

I see that he has it, so I'm just curious if that was another Custom Royal feature they stole and added to the D500 package.

Normally a Coronet wouldn't have what he has there.

Edited by 56RatKing 2018-07-08 1:45 PM
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-07-08 6:10 PM (#566298 - in reply to #566281)
Subject: RE: 56 Coronet D500 - maybe



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56RatKing - 2018-07-08 1:41 PM

Maybe weird question, but does your D500 have the ForwardLookerang Embossed with the "Dodge" on your speaker panel on the dash ? EDIT : Forgot you had a custom royal so you'd have it regardless
I see that he has it, so I'm just curious if that was another Custom Royal feature they stole and added to the D500 package.
Normally a Coronet wouldn't have what he has there.


That speaker Fookerang would be very easy to swap from a Custom Royal so who knows.

I just came back from a "Mopar Madness" car show and there was a 56 Coronet D-500 there so I spent a long time talking with the owner. Told him about the eBay Coronet and he thought that it is likely a clone, at least of police car version.

The eBay seller is still adamant that his car is NOT a clone and furthermore it would be difficult to clone one. I don't think so.


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56RatKing
Posted 2018-07-08 6:46 PM (#566303 - in reply to #566216)
Subject: Re: 56 Coronet D500 - maybe


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Well at least we know a Forwardlook.net member won't be buying it. It's at least a good looking clone, I can't imagine those 56 HEMI Engines are easy to find ?
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-07-08 9:27 PM (#566310 - in reply to #566303)
Subject: Re: 56 Coronet D500 - maybe



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56RatKing - 2018-07-08 6:46 PM

Well at least we know a Forwardlook.net member won't be buying it. It's at least a good looking clone, I can't imagine those 56 HEMI Engines are easy to find ?


The seller came back with info off the cowl tag. The Scheduled build date was 05 08 which he thought was 1955 August. I have informed him that it means May 08, 1956 which is a real time frame.

His engine number is D500-49nn which is in the right range for a May car so, the car is getting Realer.

Potentially.

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56RatKing
Posted 2018-07-09 6:50 AM (#566330 - in reply to #566216)
Subject: Re: 56 Coronet D500 - maybe


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Thanks for taking the time to get that info ! Hopefully the seller took the news well ? Now for the mystery of the valve covers and breather !
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ABloch
Posted 2018-07-09 4:42 PM (#566361 - in reply to #566216)
Subject: Re: 56 Coronet D500 - maybe



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Car was supposed to go across the block at the Mecum Indy auction but developed a "knock". Seller pulled the car from the auction, pulled the engine and had it rebuilt. Ran it two weeks ago at the Mecum Portland and it did not meet reserve. Went to thirty. I'm talking to the seller as well and he doesn't know much about it other than what the previous owner told him and a few articles he has read. He figured the only option is the power assist brakes. I informed him that there are A LOT more options than that.
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-07-09 5:02 PM (#566364 - in reply to #566361)
Subject: Re: 56 Coronet D500 - maybe



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I've contacted the CHP in Sacremento (today - by phone - took a while to get the right guy) to see if they had any photos of the engine bays of either their 230 Pursuit 56 Coronets or hopefully the D500 CHP Coronets and the bottom line is that it is unlikely that they have any such photos or if they do, that they can find them due to staffing problems that started with Arnold.

I *know* normal 4bbl 56 D500s had red valve covers and air cleaners but it might be possible that the police versions were delivered with black 230 4bbl air cleaners and silver valve covers so they weren't deemed "flashy". I contacted Morgan Yates at the Automobile Club of Southern California yesterday but he replied today that he doesn't have any info of that nature.

As a result, I am trying to contact Ed Sanow and John Bellah who authored the book "Dodge, Plymouth & Chrysler Police Cars 1956-1978 (October 1994)" to see if they have any more photos than were used in their book (none of which were engine bay shots).



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56D500boy
Posted 2018-07-09 6:01 PM (#566369 - in reply to #566216)
Subject: RE: 56 Coronet D500 - maybe



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ABloch - 2018-07-09 5:49 PM
Looks ligit to me.


It might be a 56 D500 Coronet but there are at least two items, besides the valve cover and air cleaner, that are wrong - at least for a 56 police car. I will leave you to figure those out for now. Both of them are visible.



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ABloch
Posted 2018-07-09 6:10 PM (#566370 - in reply to #566216)
Subject: RE: 56 Coronet D500 - maybe



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Looks legit to me.

As far as it being a police car one would have to do additional research.



(PhotoPictureResizer_180709_154043857-1024x519.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments PhotoPictureResizer_180709_154043857-1024x519.jpg (150KB - 10 downloads)
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ABloch
Posted 2018-07-09 6:13 PM (#566371 - in reply to #566216)
Subject: Re: 56 Coronet D500 - maybe



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May 8th. Detroit. Coronet. Single color(jewel black)

What is the SP 2 Dave?
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-07-09 7:28 PM (#566375 - in reply to #566371)
Subject: Re: 56 Coronet D500 - maybe



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ABloch - 2018-07-09 6:13 PM
May 8th. Detroit. Coronet. Single color(jewel black)
What is the SP 2 Dave?


Agree with your first line. (I am the seller's "true friend from eBay".) I was trying to disprove his thought that 05 08 meant it was 1955 August build car which totally wouldn't work as a D500 which wasn't even announced until Dec. 1955. I was happy to tell him that 05 08 = May 8th (1956).

Nice Build Tag photo. Better that the first one he posted after I pushed him to post one up.

I now believe that it is an original black 56 Dodge 2dr Coronet and that the engine in the engine bay is a D500 hemi. After that, I am not sure about anything including that it left Detroit with that engine in the engine bay. Only the IBM card can prove/disprove that.

As for the cop car thing, there are at least two things that are incorrect as far as I know (not including the engine bay).

I have been trying to figure out what SP 2 is but have failed so far. There are "MISC. O-S EQP" and "MISC SPL EQP" columns on the Detroit 56 Dodge IBM cards and they both often have a "2" above them. However, I have seen that with both an SP 2 on the build tag and an SP (blank) so no positive correlation there.

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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2018-07-09 10:08 PM (#566381 - in reply to #566375)
Subject: Re: 56 Coronet D500 - maybe



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Location: Parts Unknown
Where is Der Vedder when we need him ?

Couple thoughts here .... Why is this guy being raked over the coals
like an accused child molester. The "pursuit of truth" on this car borders
on the overdramatic side.

Secondly, my old D500 wagon was confusingly equipped with Coronet
trim level headlight and tail light rings, yet it was a Custom level trim
car. I never did get a defiintive answer for this, but it seems a first car
was special ordered and mistakenly sold to a 3rd party before the ordering
couple arrived to pick it up, so a second car was rush-ordered, and it
was delivered as a Custom Sierra. The forst car was ordered as a plain
Sierra, so the dealer did a quick swap of the easy and obvious chromed
bits, and the owners never noticed the upgraded interior bits.

Expecting black and white absolutes when it comes to these cars is
just not going to hold water.
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ABloch
Posted 2018-07-10 12:03 AM (#566385 - in reply to #566216)
Subject: Re: 56 Coronet D500 - maybe



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I'm just trying to get him to sell me his car. Unfortunately for me my offer has been declined. I offered what I was willing and able to afford. Seller told me it's going on Hemmings then off to Hershey's in October.
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-07-10 2:25 AM (#566388 - in reply to #566385)
Subject: Re: 56 Coronet D500 - maybe



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ABloch - 2018-07-10 12:03 AM
I'm just trying to get him to sell me his car. Unfortunately for me my offer has been declined. I offered what I was willing and able to afford. Seller told me it's going on Hemmings then off to Hershey's in October.


There are more than a few things to suggest that the car in question is not really a Police car. I think it might be a D500 Coronet but for that money, I would want to see the IBM card to confirm that the D500 engine was in the car when it left Detroit in May, 1956.

I haven't quizzed him on the "Imperial Brakes" yet. Imperial brakes would probably mean 5 x 5.5" bolt circle drums.

There are a few things in just this one photo that would make me wonder about the Police car provenance/story.

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