The Forward Look Network
The Forward Look Network
Search | Statistics | User Listing Forums | Chat | eBay | Calendars | Albums | Skins | Language
You are logged in as a guest. ( logon | register )

57 Imperial - leaf springs look odd
Jump to page : 1
Now viewing page 1 [50 messages per page]
View previous thread :: View next thread
   Forward Look Technical Discussions -> Steering and SuspensionMessage format
 
imperial2100
Posted 2018-07-08 2:47 PM (#566286)
Subject: 57 Imperial - leaf springs look odd


Veteran

Posts: 144
10025
Are these bent leaf springs factory? Or did someone do this to stiffen them up to avoid buying new ones?



Edited by imperial2100 2018-07-08 2:50 PM




(re_800_20180706_181435.jpg)



(re_800_20180706_181447.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments re_800_20180706_181435.jpg (109KB - 42 downloads)
Attachments re_800_20180706_181447.jpg (118KB - 22 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Phil_the_frenchie
Posted 2018-07-08 2:52 PM (#566287 - in reply to #566286)
Subject: Re: 57 Imperial - leaf springs look odd



Elite Veteran

Posts: 831
50010010010025
Location: Pau, S-W France
You've a big problem with the leafs ... On my site ther's a page on the '57/58 rear springs http://www.ch300imp.com/rear_spring.htm
Top of the page Bottom of the page
imperial2100
Posted 2018-07-08 2:58 PM (#566289 - in reply to #566287)
Subject: Re: 57 Imperial - leaf springs look odd


Veteran

Posts: 144
10025
Phil_the_frenchie - 2018-07-08 3:52 PM

You've a big problem with the leafs ... On my site ther's a page on the '57/58 rear springs http://www.ch300imp.com/rear_spring.htm

It doesn't look factory to me. Looks like someone slipped in a short extra leaf on each one. The back end is riding very stiff, it is not a very smooth ride. When going over a speed bump, the front end mostly glides over... the back end makes the whole car go up and come down.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Powerflite
Posted 2018-07-08 9:40 PM (#566314 - in reply to #566286)
Subject: Re: 57 Imperial - leaf springs look odd



Expert

Posts: 4720
20002000500100100
Location: So. California
Those are aftermarket overload springs that someone added to your car. If you don't like them, you can try taking them off and see how it does. It may lower the backend down a bit, as well as make them less stiff.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
imperial2100
Posted 2018-07-08 10:55 PM (#566321 - in reply to #566314)
Subject: Re: 57 Imperial - leaf springs look odd


Veteran

Posts: 144
10025
Powerflite - 2018-07-08 10:40 PM

Those are aftermarket overload springs that someone added to your car. If you don't like them, you can try taking them off and see how it does. It may lower the backend down a bit, as well as make them less stiff.

Thanks, are they easy/safe to remove or are they under load with tension and waiting to rip my fingers off?

I assume step one would be to jack up the back end in a place other than the leaf springs to let them extend downward? Never worked on leaf suspension before.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Powerflite
Posted 2018-07-08 11:04 PM (#566323 - in reply to #566286)
Subject: Re: 57 Imperial - leaf springs look odd



Expert

Posts: 4720
20002000500100100
Location: So. California
That would be best to relieve the pressure on the bolts before you turn them, but there is no real danger of it springing on you because the bolt is so long, it will relieve itself as you loosen it.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
imperial2100
Posted 2018-07-14 9:13 PM (#566601 - in reply to #566286)
Subject: RE: 57 Imperial - leaf springs look odd


Veteran

Posts: 144
10025
Took a few additional pictures of the leafs today before I take off the overload springs. These leaf springs seem to be pretty flat under the weight of the car. Can anyone tell if these are worn out or are they supposed to bend this much? The car isn't riding too low or anything, but it still has those overload springs on it, so thought I'd double check by sharing a few more pictures before I change anything.



(re_800_20180714_183344_HDR.jpg)



(re_800_20180714_183402_HDR.jpg)



(re_800_20180714_183352.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments re_800_20180714_183344_HDR.jpg (67KB - 20 downloads)
Attachments re_800_20180714_183402_HDR.jpg (73KB - 34 downloads)
Attachments re_800_20180714_183352.jpg (74KB - 25 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
imperial2100
Posted 2018-07-14 9:18 PM (#566602 - in reply to #566286)
Subject: RE: 57 Imperial - leaf springs look odd


Veteran

Posts: 144
10025
Looking at the last picture, it almost looks like they may be missing one leaf. Anyone else have a 57 they have some pictures of or can double check by counting them?
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Powerflite
Posted 2018-07-14 9:51 PM (#566609 - in reply to #566286)
Subject: Re: 57 Imperial - leaf springs look odd



Expert

Posts: 4720
20002000500100100
Location: So. California
I agree. It looks like you are missing the second leaf, which is the second most important one, and the whole pack is bending upward quite a bit from the strain of the overload. The overload springs are a band-aid here. I wouldn't remove them or it could be much worse. Just purchase a new set of springs from ESPO Springs 'n' Things. The originals are too soft even when new anyway.

Edited by Powerflite 2018-07-14 9:56 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
imperial2100
Posted 2018-07-14 10:07 PM (#566613 - in reply to #566609)
Subject: Re: 57 Imperial - leaf springs look odd


Veteran

Posts: 144
10025
Powerflite - 2018-07-14 10:51 PM

I agree. It looks like you are missing the second leaf, which is the second most important one, and the whole pack is bending upward quite a bit from the strain of the overload. The overload springs are a band-aid here. I wouldn't remove them or it could be much worse. Just purchase a new set of springs from ESPO Springs 'n' Things. The originals are too soft even when new anyway.

Thanks for that great tip, they don't seem to be too expensive compared to other places. (maybe around $300) They don't have the year/make/model for these 57 Imperials listed - I assume I just call them up and they should know exactly what I need, yes?

Should I get any of the extras from them such as the axle pads?
Top of the page Bottom of the page
1960fury
Posted 2018-07-15 9:25 AM (#566630 - in reply to #566286)
Subject: Re: 57 Imperial - leaf springs look odd



Expert 5K+

Posts: 5475
5000100100100100252525
Location: northern germany
That is a "helper spring". I think I saw those in old (50s) ads, Whitney, etc.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
KcImperial
Posted 2018-07-15 5:15 PM (#566644 - in reply to #566613)
Subject: Re: 57 Imperial - leaf springs look odd



Expert

Posts: 2415
2000100100100100
Location: Kansas City, KS
Here's the original leaf springs on my 1958 coupe with 7 leafs
Sedan may be different and also 1957 may be different
give ESPO Springs n Things a call, they make them for Imperials and will know what you need
I bought a set from them about a decade ago (but still haven't installed them)
Make sure to check shackles and replace the bushings while you're doing the springs





(1958CoupeLeafSprings1.jpg)



(1958CoupeLeafSprings2.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments 1958CoupeLeafSprings1.jpg (115KB - 19 downloads)
Attachments 1958CoupeLeafSprings2.jpg (116KB - 19 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
60 dart
Posted 2018-07-15 11:36 PM (#566663 - in reply to #566286)
Subject: Re: 57 Imperial - leaf springs look odd



Expert 5K+

Posts: 8444
50002000100010010010010025
Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA
looks like overload addon springs for sure and by the looks of the space between the leaf clamps on top[ and top leaf , there's been a leaf removed ----------------------------------------------later
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Phil_the_frenchie
Posted 2018-07-16 4:46 PM (#566691 - in reply to #566286)
Subject: Re: 57 Imperial - leaf springs look odd



Elite Veteran

Posts: 831
50010010010025
Location: Pau, S-W France
Beware, '57 and '58 springs are different, the '58 are 2" longer ... http://www.ch300imp.com/rear_spring.htm
Top of the page Bottom of the page
KcImperial
Posted 2018-07-16 9:14 PM (#566708 - in reply to #566691)
Subject: Re: 57 Imperial - leaf springs look odd



Expert

Posts: 2415
2000100100100100
Location: Kansas City, KS
Phil_the_frenchie - 2018-07-16 3:46 PM

Beware, '57 and '58 springs are different, the '58 are 2" longer ... http://www.ch300imp.com/rear_spring.htm

good to know. thanks, Phil!
Top of the page Bottom of the page
imperial2100
Posted 2018-07-16 10:20 PM (#566711 - in reply to #566691)
Subject: Re: 57 Imperial - leaf springs look odd


Veteran

Posts: 144
10025
Phil_the_frenchie - 2018-07-16 5:46 PM

Beware, '57 and '58 springs are different, the '58 are 2" longer ... http://www.ch300imp.com/rear_spring.htm

Thanks! I'll call them up and make sure the dimensions are right.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
imperial2100
Posted 2018-07-16 10:28 PM (#566712 - in reply to #566286)
Subject: Re: 57 Imperial - leaf springs look odd


Veteran

Posts: 144
10025
How difficult is it to change out leaf springs? I know with coils it's a pain, but leaf springs seem to be pretty tame and straight forward. I must be missing something here.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
billy
Posted 2018-07-17 1:30 PM (#566742 - in reply to #566286)
Subject: Re: 57 Imperial - leaf springs look odd



Veteran

Posts: 287
100100252525
Location: upstate new york
I'm in the same boat as Don...I have a new set of leaf springs in the trunck waiting to go on...I also purchased from ESPO...laurie very helpful...don't have a picture handy though...sorry
Top of the page Bottom of the page
51coronet
Posted 2018-07-20 12:42 PM (#566888 - in reply to #566286)
Subject: Re: 57 Imperial - leaf springs look odd


Veteran

Posts: 265
1001002525
Just checked mine on a 57 2 door. Looks the same other than you may be missing some of the dampening material. My car is currently on jack stands on the frame so the slight bow you see is from the axle weight, the shocks are fully extended and holding the weight where you see it otherwise it would bow downward more. When the car is on the tires the spring is nearly horizontal like yours.

If its sagging too much in the rear you can add the coil over type shocks that are available as a stock replacement.

Edited by 51coronet 2018-07-20 1:02 PM




(leaf spring.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments leaf spring.jpg (117KB - 53 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
mikes2nd
Posted 2018-07-20 2:27 PM (#566889 - in reply to #566286)
Subject: Re: 57 Imperial - leaf springs look odd


Expert

Posts: 3033
2000100025
ohh disc brakes
Top of the page Bottom of the page
51coronet
Posted 2018-07-20 3:05 PM (#566891 - in reply to #566889)
Subject: Re: 57 Imperial - leaf springs look odd


Veteran

Posts: 265
1001002525
mikes2nd - 2018-07-20 2:27 PM

ohh disc brakes :)


Indeed! You saw them before http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=65789&...

It all works including parking brake! Overdrive trans swap very soon.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
59 in Calif
Posted 2018-07-20 8:25 PM (#566902 - in reply to #566286)
Subject: Re: 57 Imperial - leaf springs look odd


Elite Veteran

Posts: 1072
10002525
Location: Hayward, Calif
I'm with Chuck on this one. Those clamps look like there is room for another leaf. And what is now the 2nd leaf isn't extending out far enough under the main leaf. Seems odd someone would take that leaf out unless it was broken or cracked. and I only see 6 leafs where KcImperial's pic's are showing 7 leafs. when I did wife's 59 Dodge I took the springs to a local truck shop that deals with leaf springs. They had the specs for those springs and told me they were ok. Also they no longer re-arch springs as it is no longer cost effective. Jerry
Top of the page Bottom of the page
imperial2100
Posted 2018-07-21 12:55 AM (#566918 - in reply to #566888)
Subject: Re: 57 Imperial - leaf springs look odd


Veteran

Posts: 144
10025
That is odd that 51coronet's springs also have the same look as mine with that bent leaf tucked in there. It almost looks like they took one of the leafs out to make it as it appears the same color, size, style, as the others.

It has me wondering if this was a stock modification that was done at the dealership? Or was it simply a common change to simply stiffen up the back end?

I guess my main concern is the ride - right now the ride is not smooth at all in the back end on my 57, so if I replace with new leaf set, will it suddenly ride nice and smooth again, or is it just common for the back end on these cars to be very stiff and ride hard?
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Powerflite
Posted 2018-07-21 2:01 AM (#566920 - in reply to #566286)
Subject: Re: 57 Imperial - leaf springs look odd



Expert

Posts: 4720
20002000500100100
Location: So. California
If your goal is just to make it softer, then remove that helper spring and give it a go around the block.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
KcImperial
Posted 2018-07-21 9:52 AM (#566933 - in reply to #566918)
Subject: Re: 57 Imperial - leaf springs look odd



Expert

Posts: 2415
2000100100100100
Location: Kansas City, KS
imperial2100 - 2018-07-20 11:55 PM
That is odd that 51coronet's springs also have the same look as mine with that bent leaf tucked in there. It almost looks like they took one of the leafs out to make it as it appears the same color, size, style, as the others.
It has me wondering if this was a stock modification that was done at the dealership? Or was it simply a common change to simply stiffen up the back end?
I guess my main concern is the ride - right now the ride is not smooth at all in the back end on my 57, so if I replace with new leaf set, will it suddenly ride nice and smooth again, or is it just common for the back end on these cars to be very stiff and ride hard?

That "bent leaf tucked in there" is an aftermarket leaf spring helper.
https://www.autozone.com/suspension-steering-tire-and-wheel/leaf-spr...
It's a very common "quick fix" for any car or trailer with sagging leaf springs. I've never seen or heard of a legitimate dealership installing these on cars.

An Imperial should not have a very stiff and hard ride. It was one of the top luxury cars of it's day.
Replace your leaf springs, bushings, and shocks. It will feel like a different car afterwards

Top of the page Bottom of the page
imperial2100
Posted 2018-07-21 9:56 AM (#566934 - in reply to #566933)
Subject: Re: 57 Imperial - leaf springs look odd


Veteran

Posts: 144
10025
KcImperial - 2018-07-21 10:52 AM

imperial2100 - 2018-07-20 11:55 PM
That is odd that 51coronet's springs also have the same look as mine with that bent leaf tucked in there. It almost looks like they took one of the leafs out to make it as it appears the same color, size, style, as the others.
It has me wondering if this was a stock modification that was done at the dealership? Or was it simply a common change to simply stiffen up the back end?
I guess my main concern is the ride - right now the ride is not smooth at all in the back end on my 57, so if I replace with new leaf set, will it suddenly ride nice and smooth again, or is it just common for the back end on these cars to be very stiff and ride hard?

That "bent leaf tucked in there" is an aftermarket leaf spring helper.
https://www.autozone.com/suspension-steering-tire-and-wheel/leaf-spr...
It's a very common "quick fix" for any car or trailer with sagging leaf springs. I've never seen or heard of a legitimate dealership installing these on cars.

An Imperial should not have a very stiff and hard ride. It was one of the top luxury cars of it's day.
Replace your leaf springs, bushings, and shocks. It will feel like a different car afterwards


Thanks KC. You are probably right, just need to do this right and enjoy the results. I'll go ahead and order the new set of springs and rubber mounts. I think the bushings come pre-sleeved.

What shocks do you recommend?
Top of the page Bottom of the page
KcImperial
Posted 2018-07-21 12:14 PM (#566949 - in reply to #566286)
Subject: Re: 57 Imperial - leaf springs look odd



Expert

Posts: 2415
2000100100100100
Location: Kansas City, KS
The KYB's are about the best shock for the money for 57-61 Forwardlooks. You can get them from most vendors for around $35 each.

KYB Gas-a-Just series
Front - KG4507 (need some of the rubber bushing trimmed to fit)
Rear - KG5511

Gabriel part numbers for reference.
Gabriel gas shock asorbers
Front - Gabriel 82072
Rear - Gabriel 81469
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Phil_the_frenchie
Posted 2018-07-21 2:04 PM (#566955 - in reply to #566286)
Subject: Re: 57 Imperial - leaf springs look odd



Elite Veteran

Posts: 831
50010010010025
Location: Pau, S-W France
On my car i have the original leaf springs with reverses arches as on the pics of KcImperial, and it's normal !!! It is wroten in the manual or in a Master Technician booklet. I never wanted to put new springs as some '57 cars i saw in publications (i remember a red '57 in SIA) were ugly with new springs, looks like Kustom with a rake which doesn't seem very "imperial" ...
I put Monroe Air shocks at the rear to have a normal OEM look. I inflate around 3.5 bars. At the front i 've the (mandatory) KYB.

Edited by Phil_the_frenchie 2018-07-21 2:07 PM




(57sp_007 (Large).JPG)



(57sp_010 (Medium).JPG)



(57sp_006 (Large).JPG)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments 57sp_007 (Large).JPG (147KB - 37 downloads)
Attachments 57sp_010 (Medium).JPG (67KB - 17 downloads)
Attachments 57sp_006 (Large).JPG (143KB - 17 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
imperial2100
Posted 2018-07-21 4:53 PM (#566965 - in reply to #566955)
Subject: Re: 57 Imperial - leaf springs look odd


Veteran

Posts: 144
10025
Phil - I just counted the leafs in my set compared to yours and they are matching up. Not sure why there are gaps between the some of the bracers.

I just now went out and removed those stiffener addons, and the car rides much smoother over bumps. Still nothing like my 66 Lincoln did, but I doubt anything from the 50's will ride as nice as that car. The important thing is that it doen't feel like I'm bottoming out over large bumps now, and the car doesn't ride any lower at all.

So I don't think I need to buy any new rear springs for now and may simply change out the shocks as they look pretty old.

Thanks for all the help from you guys and the pictures, it has saved me money on something I do not need just yet.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
imperial2100
Posted 2018-07-21 5:29 PM (#566967 - in reply to #566888)
Subject: Re: 57 Imperial - leaf springs look odd


Veteran

Posts: 144
10025
51coronet - you may want to consider removing your helper springs if your car is riding rough. Looking up "helper leaf spring" on the net shows them mostly used for trucks wanting to haul a lot of extra weight. These are designed to allow an additional 1500 lbs hauling capacity. I know I don't plan to load 1500 lbs worth of kids in the back of my Imperial, they just weigh 150, so this is very much overkill.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
51coronet
Posted 2018-07-21 10:28 PM (#566983 - in reply to #566286)
Subject: Re: 57 Imperial - leaf springs look odd


Veteran

Posts: 265
1001002525
Will keep it in mind when I finally get the drive it. Still have to get the engine machined and back together and the trans swap completed. Interior is in the shop right now getting some new stiches. Re-chrome wont be happening any time soon, engine and interior set me back a lot already.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Jump to page : 1
Now viewing page 1 [50 messages per page]
Jump to forum :
Search this forum
Printer friendly version
E-mail a link to this thread



(Delete all cookies set by this site)