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Slow to engage.
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59ride
Posted 2018-08-05 5:31 PM (#567850)
Subject: Slow to engage.



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Location: Chesterfield, Virginia
59 Firesweep,3 sp auto trans----.At cold startup(sitting for a week or two) the trans will not engage for about 10 to 20 seconds.It shifts normally when driving & engages right away when warmed up.I noticed that trans fluid seem to be leaking from the trans dipstick tube leaving a small puddle under the car .The trans has around 9K miles on it.The problems started about a month ago . Any thoughts? Thanks Ahead.
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ttotired
Posted 2018-08-05 6:19 PM (#567852 - in reply to #567850)
Subject: Re: Slow to engage.



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Yep. Classic symptoms of converter drain back

There is a seal gone that's allowing the fluid in the converter to drain back into the transmission, so it takes a little time to pump it back in

If you let the car sit for your week or two (overnight may be enough)check the trans oil without starting the car, you will find your trans is way overfull

Normally, the trans will leak from the selector cable (if the sheath is broken) or the kickdown lever (if that seals worn or loose)

To fix it requires transmission removal and resealing or you make sure your external seals are good and forget it

I learnt about this with my Plymouth. It would sit there for weeks with no problem, then out of the blue, there would be a couple of litres of trans oil all over the floor. As mine wasn't (still isn't) a driver, I gave up topping it up after about the third time and just waited for the gears to come ,if I was shifting the car around. I don't recommend this for a driving car

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wizard
Posted 2018-08-06 12:36 AM (#567885 - in reply to #567850)
Subject: Re: Slow to engage.



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Your transmsission has internal leaks - this causes a slow pressure biuld up. Try first with some seal saver/softener, if that doesn't work, then you must have the transmission rebuilt.
Do NOT rev up the enginge for a faster engage.
Do NOT press R directly, but go first to D and then to R
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Shep
Posted 2018-08-06 10:20 AM (#567908 - in reply to #567885)
Subject: Re: Slow to engage.



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Convertor drain back can also cause this, if the fluid is full.
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57chizler
Posted 2018-08-06 2:26 PM (#567926 - in reply to #567908)
Subject: Re: Slow to engage.



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Converter drain back is less of a problem on the iron TF because all startups are made in Neutral and the converter refills almost instantly in Neutral.

Is the slow engagement in both Reverse and the forward gears?
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59ride
Posted 2018-08-06 4:06 PM (#567932 - in reply to #567850)
Subject: RE: Slow to engage.



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Thanks for all the input. Saturday was the last time we drove . Tonite (Tuesday) I went & started the Desoto ,went right in Reverse but slow to engage in Drive.No puddle yet.I'm taking "Della Mae" to the Trannie shop tomorrow & have it checked.-----P.S. Car,Not Wife.I will keep the FL informed.
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-08-06 5:13 PM (#567938 - in reply to #567850)
Subject: Re: Slow to engage.



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My copper '57 Windsor does the same thing, and it is for both reverse and drive. You just sit there for a couple minutes until it decides to go anywhere. Afterward, it works great and everything seems normal.
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wizard
Posted 2018-08-07 1:06 AM (#567960 - in reply to #567850)
Subject: Re: Slow to engage.



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When there's a delay in engaging it's normally internal leakage that causes it. Delay both in R and D might indicate that the steel seal rings worn up a groove in the bores - which is bad since new (used good) hardware parts are needed.


The transmission works normal one the pressure has built up, but the lower pressure can damage the clutches, especially if one has a right lead foot
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1960fury
Posted 2018-08-07 8:26 AM (#567973 - in reply to #567850)
Subject: Re: Slow to engage.



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My car does the same thing since 2005 when I replace the OE transmission (which never had the problem) not just when cold, also when parked for a minute or so, drivetrain hot. On some days everything is okay for some reason, even on cold starts.
Here is one thing that puzzles me: When I push the D-button IMMEDIATELY just after a cold start it ALWAYS engages immediately. When I let it idle for 2 seconds or longer, what I usualy do, there is always a delay. So i guess it can't be drain back. This still remains a mystery FL problem. Not really a problem since when you rev the engine in neutral and then push a drive-button, it always engages. Yet, would like to get rid of that.
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wizard
Posted 2018-08-07 10:02 AM (#567982 - in reply to #567850)
Subject: Re: Slow to engage.



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First of all, the converter cannot drain back more then to the half volume any which way and the converter will be filled almost immediately after the Engine is started.

I had all possible types of internal leaks back in the seventies when it wasn't that easy to find parts - had to buy old shot transmissions and hope that there were some hardware parts which could be used. Normally, the internal leaks was the steel seal rings which worn out grooves in the bores, but sometimes also hardened rubber seals.


As for all dealyed engage in the cast iron hogs, first try to add a seal saver/softener (Omega 917 for instance) and see if that works better.

If not, it means that the internal leakage is caused by hardware worn out parts.


Now, a transmission might live for many years with this problem, but there are some basic rules to follow;

Do NOT rev up the enginge for a faster engage. (as the line pressure first don't builds up to 90 psi, the pressure might come like a heavy pressure shot that might ruin the front clutch housing)

Do NOT press R directly, but go first to D and then to R

(when the R is pressed, the pressure goes up to 225 psi and an eventual pressure shot might damage the seals and the rear clutch housing)

Therefore, it's always less harmful to go from the N (line pressure 90 psi, filling up the circuit and the torque converter) to D (breakaway pressure 90 psi, filling up the valve body, front clutch and accumulator)

Once the D has engaged, shift to R (full pressure 225 psi damped by fluid now already present in the lines and valve body)


I recommend to always use this proceedure with the cast iron hogs


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57chizler
Posted 2018-08-07 12:07 PM (#567990 - in reply to #567932)
Subject: RE: Slow to engage.



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59ride - 2018-08-06 1:06 PM

went right in Reverse but slow to engage in Drive.


This is a symptom of a faulty front clutch which is used in all forward gears but not Reverse. The problem is usually hardened/shrunk rubber seals or worn sealing rings.

If the problem is the rubber seals, a product like Trans-X or Lucas Transmission Fix will usually fix the problem.
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59ride
Posted 2018-09-13 4:11 PM (#570056 - in reply to #567850)
Subject: RE: Slow to engage.



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After talking to my Trans man I checked the vent & flushed out the rad cooling lines . I also added some sealer to the fluid(something my T-man is against).So far no more puddles.I'll keep an eye on it though.
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